I'm curious if anyone has any experience with one of these Oktava MK012 Figure-8 head (http://oktava.com/inc/sdetail/2445) yet? The MK-012 has always been a great bang for the buck mic, and I'm trying to build a MS set up to put inside my blimp for location recordings. I would like to put two of these -012's together (one with this fig 8 tip) since they'll fit nicely inside the blimp.

For a few hundred more though I'm looking at the VP-88, but I'm not a fan of the low roll off it seems to have. Lastly, my ideal option would be a Schoeps CMC5 set up, but 5k is a bit out of my range atm :P


Thanks for input,

I have a modded mk-012 and like it a lot... I will await the answers to your Q with interest.

Zack, welcome to DVI. I'd double check your intended setup inside the RODE? Blimp. As the link says that Figure 8 head also needs the preamp body.

The Blimp suspension clips won't accomodate 2 mic bodies and their cables out will be a problem.

Maybe you could knock up a cage made from a couple of wire coat hangars and cover it with fake fur to suit your M/S rig.

Cheers.

Thanks for the welcomes and feedback. I am currently using a Rode blimp, not sure how you figured that one out, unless I'm missing something lol. Anyways, what I'm gonna try to do is just go ahead and order the fig 8 capsule, and order a piggy back clip from Rycote since i got the part # with correct diameter now http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497702-REG/Rycote_048466_48466_21RD_21RD_21RD_21RD.html. There's plenty of room to accommodate the mics with the rode shockmount. I think the only issue I'll have is the rear cap with the two cables. I might just leave the back cap off and let the sock drape over, until I can find a better alternative.... maybe order another rode cap i can cut into for the MS rig.. or some wire mock up as you suggested.

Just curious Chris... in what way is your MK012 modded?

Using a blimp w/o the end cap will not work well at all, as the 012 is very susceptible wind noise anyway.

Make new cables or cable links using thinner cables. Or better yet, make a cable using a (2-channel) mic cable such as the Canare L-4E3-2P-328.


FYI: Rycote 48466 21RD/21RD & 21RD/21RD Stereo Clips (2 Pack)
* B&H# RY048466 * Mfr#* 04846*
This item has been discontinued and is no longer available. Please call for more information.

Discontinued? Looks like a really useful item to me!

Discontinued? Looks like a really useful item to me!


Ya, B&H had the only picture of what it was so far, I'll be calling Rycote to order direct hopefully.

.

Just curious Chris... in what way is your MK012 modded?

There are a couple of places doing these mods... I had mine done here:

Oktava MK-012 Modification Kits and Service (http://www.billsrecording.com/BSRS/Mod012.html)

the Vp88 is a HEAVY mic. not what you want on a long boom pole. I used it for SFX recording and it was ok

Zack, I'd totally recommend Michael Joly's OktavaMods service (OktavaMod - Affordable Boutique Microphones (http://oktavamod.com/)). I've got a modded MK-012 and it's pretty good. It's become my knock-around multi-capsule mic, and has been put into all sorts of questionable uses with no problems.

I'm afraid that I've never used the Fig. 8 capsule, but I'd bet its characteristics would match similar-pattern capsules. Joly had a nice writeup of most available capsules at Oktava MK-012 Capsule Review | recording hacks (http://recordinghacks.com/2008/07/17/oktava-mk012-capsules/), but the Fig. 8 is sadly missing. Maybe hit oktavamods.com and drop him a note asking about the Fig. 8's characteristics?

My biggest counter-question, though, is what you intend to record with a M/S Oktava rig. If you're going for fairly significant sound sources, it should be a good combo. But if you're going to be recording quiet, low-level sound sources like ambiences, even the OktavaMods' noise floor is too high for such uses. Not at all a discouragement, just a suggestion to ensure you're looking at the right tool for the right job.

Good luck!

Nathan, I will be using the rig for mostly "significant sources", but will end up having to use it for some ambient sources as well. I've already been spoiled with using schoeps rigs in the past, but I can't think of a cheaper way of getting such an image without spending over a grand at the moment..... do you?

So far, I got some good cooperation on getting the parts ordered from Rycote (stereo clips), and Rode sent me another blimp cap at no charge! I'll be ordering the fig 8 tip tomorrow and, hopefully if it all comes in before I leave on my shoot to the Dominican Republic :P, I'll get some recording tests posted for some folks to check out.

Zack, for something that's lightweight and "zepplinnable" under a grand, nothing else comes to mind, as the VP88 has been mentioned already. MS stereo is definitely hard to do on the cheap. Please do report back - the Oktava Fig. 8 is pretty uncommon and hearing a report on the results would be enlightening for all. Best of luck!

I'm curious if anyone has any experience with one of these Oktava MK012 Figure-8 head (http://oktava.com/inc/sdetail/2445) yet? The MK-012 has always been a great bang for the buck mic, and I'm trying to build a MS set up to put inside my blimp for location recordings. I would like to put two of these -012's together (one with this fig 8 tip) since they'll fit nicely inside the blimp.

For a few hundred more though I'm looking at the VP-88, but I'm not a fan of the low roll off it seems to have. Lastly, my ideal option would be a Schoeps CMC5 set up, but 5k is a bit out of my range atm :P


Thanks for input,

It seems this figure of 8 capsule is made by 2 back-to-back cardioids. I did some MS recording, but for classical music, I still prefer ORTF or spaced omnis. MS is very good for a strong center object where you need some sound space for natural sounding.

I got a Schoeps CCM8, and tried it with CMIT5, CCM4, and CCM2. The sound is excellent, and did appeal a lot of people that never experience with MS pick-up. You do need a good mixer/recorder that allows you to monitor decoded sound, but record with MS format.

Ya i've used many different Schoeps before, and obviously would love to have some of my own.... some day. My purposes will be for location SFX recordings mostly. For now I gotta make due with what I can, but I'll be using the two MK-012's with my ProMix6 and 702T.

Ya i've used many different Schoeps before, and obviously would love to have some of my own.... some day. My purposes will be for location SFX recordings mostly. For now I gotta make due with what I can, but I'll be using the two MK-012's with my ProMix6 and 702T.

Hi Zack:
I don't see why you need ProMix6 for this setup. 702 got great pre-amps already. Microphones can be compared as the lenses for photography. Without good lens, no chance for qualtiy picture. I owned my first pair of Schoeps 9 years ago, they still serve the most important role to my job.

There is a solution between the 'top of the range' Schoeps and the 'low end' Oktava. The Sennheiser MKH 418 MS stereo mic. I am not a big fan of the Oktava's because they are succeptable to handling noise (even boomed) and the two mic rig will only make this worse.

Hi Zack:
I don't see why you need ProMix6 for this setup. 702 got great pre-amps already. Microphones can be compared as the lenses for photography. Without good lens, no chance for qualtiy picture. I owned my first pair of Schoeps 9 years ago, they still serve the most important role to my job.

The mixer is just part of my rig.. i don't use it when recording location SFX, unless I have a need for mixing more than 2 mics to two tracks. Mixer is used in conjunction with the 702T on shoots for either back up for sync to the cameras and recording sound remotely for picture.

There is a solution between the 'top of the range' Schoeps and the 'low end' Oktava. The Sennheiser MKH 418 MS stereo mic. I am not a big fan of the Oktava's because they are succeptable to handling noise (even boomed) and the two mic rig will only make this worse.

I did look at the 418, but honestly if I'm even going to spend nearly 1/2 of what I could on the Schoeps set up, I would rather spend the 4k. I'm well aware of the MK-012's behaviors, but I'm pretty confident (especially with my tests so far rigging one in my shock mount), that this should work fairly well. We'll see what happens next week :)

So I have all the parts, and I wanted to post a few pictures of what I got going so far for those interested. I have a plan for the back cap, so I'll have to get back on that. At first glance, this fig 8 capsule is HEAVY... big bigger than I expected as well, but still workable and fits well inside the Rode Blimp. The suspension bands I used were the original ones the Rode comes with for the top set, and I went to the hardware store to get some others that were not as flexible on the bottoms.

At first I attempted to use the fig 8 without the capsule caps on which was a bad bad mistake. These caps are to eliminate some sort of interferance between the two capsules, without them you'll get a bad hum... possibly 60Hz. Working as intended though, they seem to sound rather nice and the bi-polar pattern seems very solid. I'm headed out now to go find some stuff to record at the nearby park and enjoy the nice day.

http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/012_MS_1.jpg
http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/012_MS_2.jpg
http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/012_MS_3.jpg
http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/012_MS_4.jpg

Spent about 4 hours roaming around the park recording some birds near some large ponds. Ended up having my low cut on most of the time since the park is nested right in the middle of some major streets and a freeway, so you'll probably hear some of that. I recorded at 24/96k, edited some sections together fast, Sides are panned hard left and right, and converted to 192kbs mp3 for these examples. Also, my MK-012's are not modified........yet.


http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/sfx/Ducks.mp3
http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/sfx/Geese.mp3
http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/sfx/Small_Creek.mp3

Not bad, Zack. Seemed to me there was some HF hiss on the ducks track, while the geese track (maybe better SN ratio?) was quite clean (and sonically interesting, taken out of context). Maybe a little harsh in the mids, but I am always a proponent of active (but subtle) EQ in post on almost every signal, so that doesn't scream dealkiller to me. Spatial sense was pretty good, the best I think in the ducks track. For the price and the situation, not a bad combo I'd say, although the broadband ambient noise masks some subtleties, but the traffic's not your fault. ;-)

I forget, or can't find it in the thread, but what kind of capsule is on your MK012 for the middle signal? Cardioid, hyper, super? Also, do you might reporting what the fig 8 capsule ran you, price wise?

Ya I did notice the HF hiss when I was out, I'm hoping the mods I'll do later will help that out more, I got what I paid for :P . I ordered the fig 8 capsule from OktavaUSA direct for $350.00. Mid mic had regular cardioid (as you'll see in the pictures above a few posts), and no EQ was added post.

Can't edit my previous post with the pictures, so here's what I finally ended up with for dealing with the 2nd cable. Having a nice dual cable was just too expensive, "ideal", but too expensive. This worked great as well, and even better with the fur over to help hold the cable snug.

I'm just going to tie off the two cables lower down the slack so they don't knock each other during a gust of wind or shifting.

Pic 5 (http://soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/012_MS_5.JPG)

Zack, great work and I didn't think you'd get those mics into the Blimp. Beaut pix too nice.

I'm not a fan of M/S indoors, too much chance for out of phase component for me. But I certainly appreciate what you're intending with your rig and I can imagine some great results especially if you lock onto some of these 3D films heading our way. Please keep us posted.

Cheers.

oh dear the Okatava Fig8 seems a really pretty bad or ill conceived design. And $350 + the cost of a body electronics is not that cheap IMO

The 2 diaphragms are VERY far from Coincident (that is they are not in same place) I'm guessing from the photo's at least 40mm apart, probably more like 50mm+, or 2inch.

This will mean the resulting polar pattern will likely be totally & completely unlike a Fig8 above 1kHz. High end dual diaphragm mics like the AKG 414 which have their 2 diaphragms about 5-8mm apart start to "loose it" badly above 2kHz, this is compared to say a classic Ribbon mic or the Schoeps or Sennhieser designs that use a single diaphragm/ribbon to get the Bi-polar/ Cosign /Fig8 qualities.
For what a 414 can do, see http://www.microphone-data.com/microphone.asp?mic=1239

As to how much this matters, depends on if you want "imaging accuracy" or stuff being in the right place. Or/if you like an interesting stereo "shimmer" effect of the "fundamental" & the harmonics of a given sound source being randomly panned and spread between the L&R speakers.

I reckon a better option is:----
Ambient Products Emesser (http://www.ambient.de/produkte/mikrofone/emesser/emesser_e.html)
It's much smaller lighter, they have sorted the cabling aspects and it has a 15dB equivalent SPL rated at DIN/IEC noise Fig, so it's not at all hissy.
Seems a bit expensive in the States, Eg $775 from B&H
ATE 208 EMESSER MINI FIGR of 8 MIC SET - Compare Prices (http://www.hawkee.com/shop/prod/6450572/)

Mind you, I think this is the total package, mounting, cables etc, and is for sure way cheaper than the Schoeps or Sennhieser's that I use.
BTW I have no financial or other connection with Ambient.

John L

I hear what you're saying about quality and design, however 2 MK-012's + 1 Fig 8 capsule is still cheaper than the ATE (at least what I spent on them), and you're still one mic short for your Mid. This was my hole reasoning of going for the Oktava capsule instead of breaking the bank. Can you hear the difference between 40mm and 5mm spacing between capsules?.... I can't. However, I can hear the S/N difference, but that's something I'm willing to live with until I can afford what I really want.

Beggers can't be choosers, and I was definitely begging :P, thanks for the input John.... oh and I'm not an Oktava rep either :P just a typical consumer.

Fair enough Zack, I'm sure your set-up will produce some pretty dam good results. Hey you can get a pretty interesting result with a (totally pretend MS pair) a mic pointing at the sound source and any other mic as a pseudo S.
Can you hear the difference between 40mm and 5mm spacing between capsules?.... I can't. However, I can hear the S/N difference, but that's something I'm willing to live with until I can afford what I really want.

Well I sure can hear 0mm spacing as in a Sennheiser MKH30 or a Schoeps MK8, gives a true Fig8 and V stable stereo. But that is only one idea of good Stereo, many people like widely spaced Omni's and they can sound great too IMO, in their way.
Agreed hiss is not a matter of opinion, it's just bad.
John L

Another good SFX Test with the MS rig. I was shooting a film out in the Mojave Desert the last 2 weeks which the set consisted of a fully operational carnival. This is what I got standing under the Ferris Wheel. Originally recorded at 24/192k on a 702T with the listed Oktava MS rig in this thread.

Ferris Wheel (http://www.soundgeekproductions.com/miscPics/sfx/FerrisWheel_Close.mp3)

Very cool!

Sorry for the empty links above, I had to do some ftp clean up a while back and broke some links. I have since reposted all the pictures and sound examples at this link Oktava MK-012 M/S Config (http://soundgeekproductions.com/blog/?page_id=38) for those interested.

~Cheers