View Full Version : XL3 HD by July???


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Luis Caffesse
May 9th, 2005, 09:39 AM
Bob,

they are listed on the original press release, along with Sony, JVC and Sharp.
You can see the press release at HDV-info (http://www.hdv-info.org).
But there is no other mention of them on that site.

Then again, like I said, there is no mention of Sharp either, so I don't know that it really means anything.

I just sent an email to the contact address for HDV-info to see if they could shed any light on this. If I hear back from them I'll let you know.

Bob Zimmerman
May 9th, 2005, 09:45 AM
It kind of sounds like Sony and JVC cut everyone else out. If HDV doesn't catch on as a pro camera it might be good for all the little handy cams. I'm sure there is more money selling handycams than pro cameras anyway.

Think of the market on a scaled down HDV home video camera! Someday just plug it into your Playstation4 and burn a copy!

Boyd Ostroff
May 9th, 2005, 09:47 AM
That is interesting. Searching here at DVinfo turns up several references to Canon's participation, inclulding this link the a Japanese Canon press release: http://web.canon.jp/pressrelease/2003/hdv.html. Running it through Babelfish4 corporations of the CANON corporation, the sharp corporation, the SONY corporation and the Nippon Victor corporation Kousei detail (HD) make the record playback of image possible making use of the DV standard cassette tape, "HDV (the tentative name) basic specification of standard" was decided. 720p (the progressive) system and 1080i (interlace) there is a system in "HDV standard", the commodity development which conforms to HD below of the world widely is possible. 4 corporations as you propose to the industry which is related this specification positively, with the goal of around 2003 September think that we would like to decide "HDV standard" formal edition.

There's also a JVC press release: http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/press/2003/hdv.html

Chris Hurd
May 9th, 2005, 10:03 AM
Well, this all sort of relates to the reasons why framed sites should be outlawed, and as the owner of a formerly framed site, I can say that with all the conviction that the converted can muster. You guys are talking about the official HDV Format site at http://www.hdv-info.org -- which is framed, making it hard to point to direct links. But here ya go, and follow closely...

This page: http://www.hdv-info.org/support.htm is just a list of additional companies who have committed to supporting HDV. Canon isn't on it but neither are the other three core members of the consortium (Sharp, JVC and Sony). The listing on this page for Sony Pictures Digital Networks refers to another division of Sony which is separate from the division doing R&D on the format. So in other words, on that Supporters page you will find none of the core members of the HDV consortium.

Those founding core members of the HDV consortium are instead listed on another page at that same site... see http://www.hdv-info.org/page2.htm and you'll find Canon listed right at the top, where it's always been since the beginning. Hope this helps,

Bob Zimmerman
May 9th, 2005, 10:12 AM
So if they are listed there why are they not allowed to use HDV? Only Sony and JVC? Are you saying they supported the idea at the start...but not now.

Luis Caffesse
May 9th, 2005, 10:23 AM
Those founding core members of the HDV consortium are instead listed on another page at that same site... see http://www.hdv-info.org/page2.htm and you'll find Canon listed right at the top, where it's always been since the beginning. Hope this helps,

I saw that Chris, but what I thought was odd was that the site states HDV and the HDV logo as being trademarked by Sony and JVC.

It just seemed weird that there is no mention of Sharp or Canon other than in the original consortium press release from 2003.

Dave Eanton
May 9th, 2005, 12:32 PM
That might mean that Canon may actually go for the DVCProHD format. This sounds more interesting all the time...

Luis Caffesse
May 9th, 2005, 02:32 PM
That might mean that Canon may actually go for the DVCProHD format. This sounds more interesting all the time...

Well, more realistically it probably doesn't mean anything more than Canon didn't actually have a hand in creating HDV, they simply were on the consortium of companies saying they would support HDV in their productline.

It's possible, I'm guessing here, that Sony and JVC did the actual leg work in creating the codec and supporting hardware, and therefore they share the legal copyright. I suppose if and when Canon releases an HDV camera they would have to license the technology like anyone else.

The idea of them releasing a DVCProHD camera seem highly unlikely, as I doubt panasonic would release it to them. Then again, what do i know?

Patrick King
May 9th, 2005, 02:41 PM
Then again, what do i know?

Luis,

On this topic, I'd say you know about as much as anyone of us here, not much. But your speculation is well reasoned and makes as much sense as any other guesses listed. Isn't Area 51 fun!

OK, so if your logic is correct and DVCProHD isn't Canon's path (and I tend to agree with you from what I've read), and Canon doesn't use HDV (which hasn't been completely discounted), what else is there?

Just a new proprietary codec? Or is there another route (WMV-HD)? Others?

Bob Zimmerman
May 9th, 2005, 03:00 PM
This line from the e-mail from the rep:" I presume that Canon's
engineers are currently working on something." You know he is right about that. I'm sure they are not sitting around watch TV and wondering what to do next. Are there only two ways to do hi-def? I don't think Canon is going to close up shop.

Luis Caffesse
May 9th, 2005, 03:28 PM
OK, so if your logic is correct and DVCProHD isn't Canon's path (and I tend to agree with you from what I've read), and Canon doesn't use HDV (which hasn't been completely discounted), what else is there?

Just a new proprietary codec? Or is there another route (WMV-HD)? Others?

That's why I have such a hard time with this speculation...as much as I would love to believe it. Canon has never introduced a new format (digital or analog) as far as I know. They've always piggy backed on the accepted format of the day. I don't mean that as a slam against Canon, it's just what they've always done.

On top of that, as I said before, they've never made any of the accompanying hardware that comes with a new codec, such as decks. They've never needed to because they've always produced cameras that used established formats.

So, if they were to come out with a brand new proprietary codec (which I seriously seriously doubt), they would have two options:

1) Produce a deck, or series of decks, to accompany the new format.

2) Create the new camera with hard drive or solid state recording, eliminating the need for a deck.


Then again, as improbable as this all sounds to me, I suppose that the advent of HD is an opportunity for manufacturers to try to grab some new ground with consumers. So maybe Canon will take this opportunity to change the way they've done business in the past, and actually take a risk in the marketplace.

The only thing I know for certain right now is....yes, Area 51 is fun.
:)

Patrick King
May 9th, 2005, 03:34 PM
Canon has never introduced a new format (digital or analog) as far as I know. They've always piggy backed on the accepted format of the day.

I agree, but you didn't bite on my Wondows Media Video codec speculation. I've got to say that I rendered some helicopter gun camera footage using the WMV-HD codec available in Vegas, and it was exceptionally clean and clear with an incredibly small file size. What are the odds Canon and the Evil Empire Microsoft could join up? Panny is positioning themselves closer with Apple it appears.

Aaron Koolen
May 9th, 2005, 03:39 PM
I agree with Luis. Unless for some reason, someone is now slipping mind altering drugs into the Canon Marketing and Engineer department heads' coffees, I seriously doubt they go a new format. Maybe a codec that's jammed into miniDV, but even that requires a huge effort to get everyone on board. A new Format (DVCPro for instance) seemed to require a massive task on Panasonic's side. Building Decks, tapes, getting NLE supporters behind it - cameras etc. I mean, really, are people going to go a totally new format, buying new hardware for their workflow etc for 1 camera made by Canon, I doubt it. I mean Canon doesn't even make pro cameras (As far as their Division designation goes of course), and they don't make decks, or monitors or anything. They make lenses, 2 higher end cameras (XLxxx and XMxxx) and consumer cameras. They're not a big player.

But who knows, maybe all that will change.
Aaron

Luis Caffesse
May 9th, 2005, 03:48 PM
I agree, but you didn't bite on my Wondows Media Video codec speculation

If Canon has decided to not support HDV, I doubt they will turn to WMV-HD as an alternative, given that it would suffer from the same problems.

The microsoft codec, if I understand it correctly, is designed as a delivery codec, not an aquisition format. While the stuff you rendered out may look fantastic, try pulling it back into After Effect, doing some compositing and color correction on it, and then rendering it back out. My guess is that the footage would fall apart faster than DV due to the high and variable compression.

Of course, Aaron brought up a huge point as well, that hadn't even occurred to me yet, a new codec would mean having to get NLE support and that is a huge hurdle that I doubt Canon wants to deal with.

My bet is that they will announce HDV cameras by the end of the year.
Until then we can dream though.

Aaron Koolen
May 9th, 2005, 05:47 PM
Yeah. As much as I'd love them to license DVCPro (Is anyone even able to do that?!) I think Panasonic would tell them "where to go" unless they got a pretty good deal out of it. I mean if Canon dumped DVCProHD into an XL3 then of course they'll need P2 as well (Or some slot in HDD solution I guess) and so you'd be getting something like an HVX, but with Interchangable lenses. I think that would compete a little too closely with the HVX for Panasonic to want to risk that. Of course, part of the deal could be to not support some of the things that the HVX is, say 1080p or variable framerates - but then, would it be worth Canon's while?

I'm really interested in Canon's reply but I'm not holding my breath. I am probably getting a DVX102a soon to update my XM2 and then wait for the HVX to arrive here in NZ which won't be until early next year I'd imagine. By then who knows what will be around.

Aaron

Dave Perry
May 9th, 2005, 08:23 PM
I mean Canon doesn't even make pro cameras (As far as their Division designation goes of course)

Actually, the XL2 and GL2 are now listed at canondv.com (www.canondv.com) as their Professional 3 CCD series cameras.

Dave Eanton
May 9th, 2005, 10:14 PM
"They make lenses, 2 higher end cameras (XLxxx and XMxxx) and consumer cameras. They're not a big player."

As far as I know, Canon is a huge player in the pro Still Camera department. They make their own CMOS chips along with the cameras, lenses, image stabilization and firmware. I think it's totally possible that they create something on their own. I don't think that would happen, but they certainly have the technology and R&D to pull it off.

I know that CMOS is not the same as CCD and the application is different in still cameras, but I think they are in a good position to make a move with the new HD wave - both for Consumer and Pro applications.

Chris Hurd
May 10th, 2005, 12:35 AM
Actually, the XL2 and GL2 are now listed at canondv.com (www.canondv.com) as their Professional 3 CCD series cameras.

They're certainly pitched to the professional market, but they come from the very same group that produces the ZR, Elura and Optura.

Tim Le
May 10th, 2005, 03:29 AM
As far as I know, Canon is a huge player in the pro Still Camera department. They make their own CMOS chips along with the cameras, lenses, image stabilization and firmware. I think it's totally possible that they create something on their own. I don't think that would happen, but they certainly have the technology and R&D to pull it off.

You're right, Canon pretty much dominates the digital SLR market. They are a semiconductor company, a camera company and a lens company--that's the best position you could be in. Clearly they have a lot of R&D in CMOS technology for still camera applications since they pretty much invented that field. So you have to wonder, why don't they put all this muscle into the video division? It's probably not a technological problem because ARRI is using a Super 35mm CMOS chip in their D-20 camera and they've been able to get the data rate out of that sensor for frame rates up to 150 fps.

I'm guessing there are other forces at work here. It may be a legal issues, like patents owned by other companies that Canon does not want to pay royalties for, or it may be internal marketing issues like conflicts with the broadcast lens division.

But seeing how Canon has the sensor expertise and the camera expertise, I don't see why they can't go hog wild and make a blowout product. The only question is, do they want to?

FYI: Article on the ARRI D-20 here : http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/d_20/articles.htm

Dave Eanton
May 10th, 2005, 09:29 AM
Thanks for the link Tim, now I wonder who made the Arri CMOS chip...?

Michael Struthers
May 15th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Canon could certainly license the dvcpro from panasonic. Other companies do it for their video cameras already, such as Ikegami.

Let's hope they do exactly that. I don't think Panasonic would have any problem accepting the royalty checks.

Canon could also license sony's xdcam technology.

Or Canon could easily also easily use HDV if they really wanted to, they just have to call it something else.

Let's hope they don't. We'll probably know in July.

Jesse Bekas
May 24th, 2005, 01:52 PM
What are the chances that Canon sits out this year for HD all together, sees which HD format is the most popular (HDV using MiniDV transports or DVCPRO on flash), and then licenses one of them for use in some uber-cam for Summer 2006?

Ivan Hurtado
May 25th, 2005, 03:21 AM
That would be the way to go for Canon; it will give time to XL2 get old and them to be ready to use the best-selling technology of the day.

I hope they are intelligent and do it like this. Probably right now they are banging the head against a wall because of 1080i HDV and looking at JVC with greedy eyes. Lucky for them we think we know their inside politics of arriving late to the party and they have time to fix it.

In my wishes Canon chooses DVCPROHD. That would give them my money, but then, they should announce it before HVX go out.

Radek Svoboda
May 26th, 2005, 10:04 AM
XL3 might have 1080i and 720p recording.

Dave Eanton
May 26th, 2005, 10:38 AM
In either case, Canon has to do something. Technology for video has been improving and evolving so rapidly that I don't think there ever is a "too early" or "too late" time to enter - the tech improvements happen to appear seamlessly. IMO, it's best to come in with as flexible a solution as possible and come in with it early. You can only improve on product that has already been out for a while and you get the customer feedback.

The XL2 came in a little too late, and if Canon takes their time with the XL3, it will be quickly surpassed by what Panasonic, Sony and JVC have already learned from their own models in the field. Be bold Canon!

Mike Rinkunas
May 27th, 2005, 10:00 AM
IMO, if Canon was to sit out this year, i think it would deal large blow to their 'professional' video area....from a busniess stand point, most of the users of 3CCD cameras haven't made the jump to HD Due to the high cost....but the HVX2000 presents an option to change that! Now, granted that Canon has the history of sitting back and watching everyone else duke it out has worked in the past, but it seems like there is a lot of pressure from our community in general to try to get a product that has a longer life span - ie a single camera that could survive the transition from SD to HD - atleast i do, i want something that will not only earn me money now, but be an solid investment for the next 3-4 years and continue earning money then. I won't be able to afford upgrading sets of cameras every 2 years - it just doesn't make financial sense from my busniess stand point. I am an avid canon supporter, and i love my XL-1s's, however i want to upgrade in the next 6-8 mths and if canon's production record stands - anew GL camera before an XL version - i'll have alreay leaped to the HVX2000 before any XL3 info is released.

So if you think about everyone out there who is in the same boat as i am, canon stands to loose a large part of the market share to others (Panny, sony, etc) by their inaction. For every HVX2000 or Z1 sold, that's one less sale canon could of had. Its alright from a business point to say "opps, we made a mistake with that product" - anyone remember coke 2? Coke recognized they made a mistake, corrected it and came out still on top of things. If Canon doesn't wake up, they might not be so fortunate in this section of their market.....

just my 2 cents
~Mike

Paul Doherty
May 27th, 2005, 10:22 AM
I think that's a good summing up Mike. I'm one of those who was disappointed with the XL2 and got an FX1 instead. However if they bring out an XL3 then I'll still be interested (I figure I'll have had two years use of my FX1 by then and in pro terms it's a cheap camera).

My worry is that I spoke to one Canon rep who was very disparaging of sales of the XL1. So maybe Canon will only bother with relatively cheap consumer HDV camcorders; it might make more business sense for them.

Pete Bauer
May 27th, 2005, 12:28 PM
There have been hints that a new Canon HD(V?) camera isn't too far away, as evidenced by the starting post of this whole thread, by Dave Eanton, which had this link:

http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=32066

The prosumer market has FINALLY accelerated into HD territory after waiting at the border for too long, and continues to pick up speed. Canon HAS to respond to that. I don't believe they'll abandon the "prosumer" market just as new technology is poised to energize it. My bet is in agreement with those who speculate that around the time the Panasonic is ready to ship, Canon will have a WunderKam to announce and promptly ship, as is their style (hopefully an XL form factor, and with better than plain-ol' HDV data rates!). I'd like to see a Canon in July, but I'm guessing more like September/October.

Radek Svoboda
May 27th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Canon has to come with something better than competition. It be either 1080p or combination 1080i and 720p. JVC is sticking with 720p, Sony with 1080i. Canon would very smart to offer both. If they added 1080p, they could have:

720p24-60
1080i50-60
1080p24-30

They would have winner and it would probably be not hard to do, if they can get somewhere CCD's for it. They make CMOS but will take them couple years to develop CMOS for this. Their CMOS great for digital SLRs but not for this.

Sony makes 1/2 inch 16x9 combination progressive and interlaced 1080i/p chips that would cover all this. If they would sell to Canon at reasonable price, Canon could go develop super 1/2 inch camera that is reasonably priced.

Radek

Philip Williams
May 29th, 2005, 12:05 PM
I've been following this fun and almost completely baseless thread for some time and thought I'd throw my own completely hypothetical 2 cents in. If my theory below has been posted already, I apologize but I must have missed it.

I highly suspect that in addition to a very likely GL3 HDV cam, Canon is going to release an Optura HDV. I realized this after looking at Canon's overall product line, direction and current lineup - combined with what the competition is up to.

Really makes sense, since Canon has really been pushing the envelope with the Optura series. Even the non-canon video fans have to admit that no one can touch the features of an Optura 50/60 at anything near the price. I mean manual audio control, focus ring, 16x9, Primary RGB filter, 1/30th shutter speed, etc.. You're looking at about $1300 for a GS400 or who knows how much for a Sony with all those features.
AND, the Xi (flagship for the Opturas of course) is due for replacement. With Sony releasing an HDV cam for $2000 and knowing fully well that JVC will probably release an even lower cost version, throwing a $1500 Xi2 out there with SD DV might not be the best way to go...

So there it is. Optura HDV. Coming soon for $1799 MSRP, no 24P but with extensive manual controls. I'd say 60% chance of 1080i, 40% chance of 720P.

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

Jos Svendsen
May 30th, 2005, 01:50 AM
I have just recieved interesting news from my top secret Canon source. I wish that it would have been something like a blurry pic from a cameraphone and a hastily copied spec sheet. But no.
Instead the info is that there will be two major video announcements this year. One in July and one in September, and that these announcements will be related to HDV. The insider also expressed that Sonys HDV cams was the target. The person stated that "now they (Sony, JVC) are gonne get competetion!"

For all it's worth - but it sure looks like Canon has been active, and not sitting on their hands.

Pete Bauer
May 30th, 2005, 04:55 AM
Interesting top secret intelligence report; hope no spies met with an untimely demise in pursuit of this info!

If we are talking the next TWO major announcements, I'll expand my guess to a July announcement for a "GL3" or Optura HDV camera, with the September announcement being an XL form factor. Although I'd be happier with the reverse! Only time will tell, eh?

Jean-Philippe Archibald
May 30th, 2005, 06:20 AM
Why not a GL3 in july and an Optura in september? The XL2 is only one year old...

Pete Bauer
May 30th, 2005, 07:24 AM
Of course, none of us knows what Canon's business strategy is.

But as I mentioned earlier, I find it most unlikely that they would cede this market space ("low cost" professional) to the competition just when HD technologies are beginning to drive an big upturn in sales volume. After all, even if they don't want it TODAY, everyone reading here will want an HD camera soon; none of us wants to be TOO far behind everyone else, eh?

Once there is a crop of HD cameras to compete directly against the XL2 for new camera sales -- which appears to be starting to happen already -- the used XL2 market is going to steal away sales of new XL2's. With a glut of almost-new XL2's for sale, the few who still want an XL2 instead of an HD camera may well buy "hardly-used," rather than a new one at retail. I suspect that new XL2 sales will be at a trickle by this autumn, even if they do cut the price.

If Canon wants to sell very many cameras in that market space beyond this autumn, they must compete. And that means a new camera that previous XL owners will want to buy more than they want to buy a competitor's. Using a company's history of new product releases (in Canon's case, last to the dance but always notably well-dressed) can be useful in a fairly static market, but Darwin comes into play here; Canon doesn't want to get TOO far behind everyone else. This will be a tremendously dynamic time -- LOTS of people are going to buy their first HD cameras in the next year or two. If I've already bought my Pansonic HVX200, Canon won't be selling me an "XL3"...all the companies are perfectly aware of these market forces.

Then again, some have predicted that this is the end of the line for the XL series. Maybe Canon will go in another direction entirely. Only time will tell.

Dave Eanton
May 30th, 2005, 09:58 AM
Just to add my thoughts on the last two comments, if the new canon HDV is going to compete with Sony, it will most likely start with a consumer camera rather than the prosumer. That's where most of the HDV sales will come from. Sony's push for their various consumer HDV cameras will also help sell their new HD TV's and players to the same customers. The consumer HD market will be very hot over the next couple of years.

A September announcement from Canon will most likely be a GL3 - an easy to handhold HD camera. If Canon does produce an XL3, I think they will stay with the XL form factor as it has worked well for Canon in the past.

Bob Zimmerman
May 30th, 2005, 07:46 PM
But who really wants HDV?

Michael Struthers
May 31st, 2005, 04:29 PM
How do they beat Sony with an HDV cam? Sony is already going sub2k with their new consumer hdv cams. Just another 1080i hdv isn't going to win any hearts.

It will have to be 1080/24p or 720/24p.

And the XL3 had better skip HDV altogether.

Patrick Jenkins
May 31st, 2005, 09:00 PM
Any XL3 is fine with me if it lowers the price of the XL2 :)

Philip Williams
June 1st, 2005, 07:50 AM
How do they beat Sony with an HDV cam? <snip>

Probably the same way they do it with regular DV cams. Better/more/reachable manual controls for a couple bucks less than the equivalent Sony. That's why I'm sticking to my $1799 Optura XiHDV theory. 10% off the new Sony HDV cam and somewhat better manual control (though I have to admit Sony actually put some decent controls on the new model).

Probably no rocket science stuff, just a solid product with good economics. And it'll keep Optura and Elura owners wanting to upgrade to HD from jumping to Sony.

As for stuff like 1080P or 24P, etc.. I think if we see that in a $2000 cam it'll almost certainly be Panasonic. I could imagine them engineering a GS400 replacement that at least shoots 720P/24 in that price range. Even JVC might replace the HD1 with something like that.

I suppose all the guessing will end as the year progresses. And then it'll start all over when everyone's 2nd generation HD products hit the rumor mills next year :)

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

Lawrence Bansbach
June 2nd, 2005, 08:14 AM
How do they beat Sony with an HDV cam? Sony is already going sub2k with their new consumer hdv cams. Just another 1080i hdv isn't going to win any hearts.

It will have to be 1080/24p or 720/24p.

And the XL3 had better skip HDV altogether.
Canon could outdo Panasonic:

License DVCPro (50 and HD) and HDV encoding
Push HDV to 50 Mbps
Include both 720p and 1080i HDV
Support 24p under all formats
Record DV and HDV 19/25 Mbps to tape, and DVCPro and 50-Mbps HDV-compatible streams to hard-disk or solid-state media
Include all the logic circuitry so that recording to nontape media means simply plugging in a cheap hard drive or a Samsung Flash-based drive
Include multiple frame rates for DVCPro HD 720p
Figure out how to encode DVCPro HD 1080p24 at 1,440 x 1,080 instead of 1,280 x 1,080
Three half-inch, 1,440 x 1,080 CMOS imaging chips that have excellent low-light capability
Usable uncompressed 4:4:4 HD-SDI output for masochists and those needing to do optimal blue- or greenscreen work
Of course, a removable lens
Replace the "bent" XL form factor with something sleeker
Price, with lens, well under $10,000 (preferably under $7,000)

Radek Svoboda
June 2nd, 2005, 09:49 AM
I'm guessing it will have 3 modes:

720/1-60p, 19 Mbps
1080/50-60i, 25 Mbps
1080/1-30p, 25 Mbps

It will record in HDV or Blu-Ray format.

It will use one 2/3" CMOS by Altasens.

It will have new line of interchangable lenses

It will be camera with which indies will make their blockbuster movies.

It will be under $10,000 and will accept Canon 35 mm lenses.

Competing cameras from 7,000 to 70,000 dollars will hardly sell at all.

It will become bestseller pro camera.

It will be available at NAB 2006.

Radek

Yi Fong Yu
June 6th, 2005, 12:33 AM
i'm curious, why aren't existing XL lenses capable of HD lenses, cause of thread-size?

also, why don't broadcast HD spec have 1080p and just 1080i? bandwidth?

Aaron Koolen
June 6th, 2005, 02:42 AM
Well I hardly believe anything HDV at those bitrates could stop a 70K camera from selling.

Now, if they got another codec, then they could do something really really fancy.

Aaron


I'm guessing it will have 3 modes:

720/1-60p, 19 Mbps
1080/50-60i, 25 Mbps
1080/1-30p, 25 Mbps

It will record in HDV or Blu-Ray format.

It will use one 2/3" CMOS by Altasens.

It will have new line of interchangable lenses

It will be camera with which indies will make their blockbuster movies.

It will be under $10,000 and will accept Canon 35 mm lenses.

Competing cameras from 7,000 to 70,000 dollars will hardly sell at all.

It will become bestseller pro camera.

It will be available at NAB 2006.

Radek

Radek Svoboda
June 6th, 2005, 05:09 AM
i'm curious, why aren't existing XL lenses capable of HD lenses, cause of thread-size?

also, why don't broadcast HD spec have 1080p and just 1080i? bandwidth?

The existing lenses don't resolve enough lines for HD.

I wonder too why films are not transmitted 1080p24. It compresses easier, needs lower bit rate than 1080/60i. I guess when they developed 1080i, things were harder do than now.

Dave Eanton
June 6th, 2005, 09:29 AM
My understanding is that a consensus couldn’t be reached on whether the formats should be progressive or interlaced, so 720 became 'progressive' only and 1080 became 'interlaced'. Now we also see the 1080 in progressive as well….

Radek Svoboda
June 6th, 2005, 09:50 AM
I think it was different. Original HDTV broadcast started in Japan, was analog and 60i interlaced footage transfered to 60i SD better. 1080p24 needs about same bit rate, if not lower than 720p60. Films and most shows are shot 24p anyway so unless it's sports, etc., 1080i60 and 720p60 not make sense. MPEG4 allow 1080p60 at 19 Mbps. It will be HDTV future.

Radek

Yi Fong Yu
June 6th, 2005, 02:30 PM
if it's pretty feasible, are there talks from HD consortium to revise the HD broadcast standards to include 1080p? i would think that the current boxes would simply need firmware updates. what do you think? any news?

Radek Svoboda
June 7th, 2005, 03:53 PM
1080p is way in future. They need sell you 1080i first, when profits from 1080i go down, suddenly there will be 1080p HDTV. By going in steps, profits multiply better.

Radek

Stephen Schleicher
August 9th, 2005, 02:32 PM
I have received an email about the new Canon HD cameras shipping in about a month.

Cheers

James Rhodes
August 9th, 2005, 02:52 PM
What Models did they mention ? Can you forward the message to

james@ontherhodes.com

? Sorry but I am excited to know what they are going to do