I love my PDX10. What would you like to see in the next version? Since Panasonic seems to listen to it's customers maybe Sony will too. Here's what I'd love:

1. HDV/DV/DVCAM
2. Hard drive based. Using the 80GB Toshiba drives that will be coming out in the next Ipod's. Have USB and FIREWIRE connections on the camera for direct Transfer to an external hard drive or computer. The drive would be on some sort of platter that could be interchangable.
3. Even smaller/lighter.
4. A more hand friendly design. Like an old Super 8 camera with a handle that could contain the battery (but the handle could fold in). I've never felt quite right holding the PDX10. Just pick up your PDX10 and pretend there's a handle on the bottom, like a gun - wouldn't that feel better to you?
5. True 16x9 chips

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but I'd buy that.

Smearless, 1 lux, wider lens, body better balanced, MS duo pro 8 G.B instead of the tape. HD is O.K., but there will be no new PDX - 10 anymore, something very good, but different. 16:9 is already so nice, don't even touch! Wants more? Sony is listening!

Hmm....I don't have many complaints with my PDX10, so I don't really have much on my "wish list". My cam stays on a tripod (or other mount) 99% of the time, so any handheld/balance issues are moot for me. And since I pretty much only shoot in outdoor daylight, the low-light issues generally don't affect me. Smear has reared it's ugly head a few times, but only when I do something stupid like shoot directly into the sunlight. And honestly, what I'm shooting ends up in such rapid-fire cuts that I don't have any issue editing out the smears when they do happen.

I guess I'd like to see:

- A more linear response from the manual focus control.
- More control over the zoom speed.
- Ability to manually control the ND filter.
- Actual F/stop reading on the manual exposure setting.

But those are all relatively minor things; I doubt any of those would make me want to replace my cam. In fact, the only thing that would make me want to replace it would be 1080 HDV capability. And I seriously doubt that anyone will be delivering a sub-$2,000 PDX10-sized cam HDV anytime in the near future.

24p....

And, perhaps loose the dumb bayonet mount lens hoods. Screw on lens hoods would be better as you could stack the filters, ND, Polorizer, UV etc and not have the glass creeping out from the hoods.

If the front lens element is out in front of the protected area of the hood, light can affect the image. You need the lens hood to be attached to the front of the elements. That's one thing I always worry about with adding a tele or wide adapter. Yeah, it may fit under the lens shade but you have lost a good deal of the effectivness of the shade.

I personally bought and use the soft matte box from Cinetactics. It attaches directly to the small sony lens shade without adapters and works much better.

If I actually bought the adapter rings, it too would attach to the front of the forward most lens elements.

Oh, and a larger eyecup would be good too. I bought a large eyecup from I-Cuff.

You can see what I've done to my camera here:
http://home.columbus.rr.com/deepblueedit/Personal/Studio.htm

SMM

Wow, is there really a PDX-10 underneath all that stuff? ;-) Pretty cool Sean!

WOW. That is a stunning setup.

I bet it gets a few stares from some people, though.

I love my PDX10. What would you like to see in the next version? Since Panasonic seems to listen to it's customers maybe Sony will too. Here's what I'd love:

1. HDV/DV/DVCAM
2. Hard drive based. Using the 80GB Toshiba drives that will be coming out in the next Ipod's. Have USB and FIREWIRE connections on the camera for direct Transfer to an external hard drive or computer. The drive would be on some sort of platter that could be interchangable.
3. Even smaller/lighter.
4. A more hand friendly design. Like an old Super 8 camera with a handle that could contain the battery (but the handle could fold in). I've never felt quite right holding the PDX10. Just pick up your PDX10 and pretend there's a handle on the bottom, like a gun - wouldn't that feel better to you?
5. True 16x9 chips

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but I'd buy that.

Actually, there is a *next* PDX10 out there.

The Sony HDR-Z1U

Recording Format: HDV / DV (SP) / DV (LP) HDV / DVCAM / DV (SP)
CCD Block: 3 x 1/3" HD CCD (16:9) Super HAD
Pixel Count: 3 x 1.12 million total (3 x 1.07 million effective)
Widescreen: Native 16:9 in HD and SD
14-bit HD DSP
CineFrame 24 & 30
Lens: 12x Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar, 72mm filter dia.
Focal Length: 4.5mm to 54.0mm w/ built-in wide angle
Equiv. 35mm f.o.v.: 40mm to 480mm in 4:3 / 32.5mm to 390mm in 16:9
Aperture Range: f/1.6 (full wide) or f/2.8 (full tele) to f/11 (24 steps)
Shutter Speeds: 1/4 sec. to 1/10,000 sec. in Program AE Mode
Built-in ND Filter: ND1: 1/6 and ND2: 1/32
Super SteadyShot
SteadyShot Types: Hard, Standard, Soft
Zoom Ring: Manual, non-perpetuating
Smooth Zoom
Viewfinder: 0.44" 16:9 LCD w/ 252 kilopixels
LCD Panel: 3.5" Hybrid 16:9 LCD w/ 250 kilopixels
LCD with EVF
Hours Meter
Zoom Display: Numbers
HDV Rec. Format: 2ch. 16bit 48kHz Mpeg 1 Audio Layer II
DV Rec. Format: 2ch. 16bit 48kHz or 2ch. 12bit 32kHz PCM Stereo
Onboard Mic: Built-in, Stereo
Ext. Audio Input: Stereo 2ch. XLR
Ext. Mic Pwr. Supply: Plug-in Power Phantom Power(about 40v)
Vol. Control Dials: Two (L/R separate)
Audio NR
Audio Limiter
Time Code Reset
Time Code Drop-Frame & Non-Drop Frame
Rec Run / Free Run
Color Correction: Two (2) Target Colors
User Buttons: Six (6)
Assignable Functions: Fourteen (14)
Skin Tone Control
Black Stretch
Manual Iris
Manual Gain
Hyper Gain
Man. White Balance
Man. Shutter Speed
Body Color: Black

Yeah, I agree it is sort of the logical successor and it addresses most of my PDX-10 beefs... I may very well get one.

Unfortunately it doesn't meet some of the items on everyones' wish list, which include a compact form factor and low price. It's much bigger and heavier, and you could buy 3 PDX-10's for the price of one HVR-Z1! But considering what it can do this isn't so bad. And if you can live without a few bells and whistles the HDR-FX1 is a great value.

But this still leaves us wondering whether Sony will introduce a new compact pro camera to continue the sucession of PD-100 > PD-100a > PDX-10 > HDX-10??? :-) My personal guess is that they will, but maybe not right away so as not to cannibalize FX-1 and Z-1 sales...

I looked very closely at buying the Z1 but for my needs it's just too big.

I've always looked at the PDX10 as semi-revolutionary in that it brought super high quality in such a small package, with TRUE 16x9 which was unheard of at that price range. I'd love for Sony to do it again with the PDX... this time with an HDV tapeless camera.

I looked very closely at buying the Z1 but for my needs it's just too big.

I've always looked at the PDX10 as semi-revolutionary in that it brought super high quality in such a small package, with TRUE 16x9 which was unheard of at that price range. I'd love for Sony to do it again with the PDX... this time with an HDV tapeless camera.

Chris

I'm curious to know why do you want a smaller size camera?

I like the size of the Z1U over the PDX10 'cause it will give
me more control doing handheld shots, plus it has better
manual buttons of choice.

Btw, there is another feature that was not listed under the Z1U
features. It's much better under low-lighting conditions than
the PDX10, due to its better digital signal processing.


But this still leaves us wondering whether Sony will introduce a new compact pro camera to continue the sucession of PD-100 > PD-100a > PDX-10 > HDX-10??? :-) My personal guess is that they will, but maybe not right away so as not to cannibalize FX-1 and Z-1 sales...

Boyd

I agree, I see it happening, much more later than sooner...

Interesting points Juan. But after reading a number of comments about the FX-1/Z-1, it sounded like it was only about 1 stop faster than the PDX-10. But one advantage (if you're shooting SD that is) is that you can shoot at 1/30 (or 1/25 PAL) shutter speed without losing half your vertical resolution as you would on the PDX-10. There are enough pixels on the CCD's so you can still get 480 lines after downsampling. I guess that would give it another f-stop advantage. However the PDX-10 uses 14 bit DXP just like the Z-1, although the smaller CCD's don't help I suppose.

The size wouldn't be a big deal for me either since almost all my shooting is on a tripod. But when it comes to lugging stuff around then smaller is better - all other things being equal of course. But it's funny you mention the handheld aspect. Somewhere around here there's a thread from someone at the BBC (I think) who said they're replacing their PD-150's with Z-1's. He was very happy with the image quality and controls, but specifically complained about handholding the bigger camera which he felt was poorly balanced. Maybe the shoulder support helps?

The dedicated manual controls and calibrated zoom/focus rings would be a welcome change from the PDX-10 certainly!

I spent about 14 hours last weekend hiking outdoors with my PDX10 and a tripod. I completely wore out all 3 of my batteries and filled up over 5 tapes. I figure I spent about 1/2 of my time shooting on a tripod and the other 1/2 shooting handheld. I also spent a little time shooting with the cam attached to a Jeep rollcage with a Superclamp and ball head.

After that experience -- which to be honest is how most of my shooting should go in the future -- I can say without any reservation whatsoever that the FX1/Z1 cams are just too large for my needs (and yes, I've held them and compared). Every extra once of camera weight is that much more I have to drag around all day while hiking.

I'd love an HD cam in the relative size-range of the PDX10...but until I really *need* HD, I can't see migrating to a larger cam.

I spent about 14 hours last weekend hiking outdoors with my PDX10 and a tripod. I completely wore out all 3 of my batteries and filled up over 5 tapes. I figure I spent about 1/2 of my time shooting on a tripod and the other 1/2 shooting handheld. I also spent a little time shooting with the cam attached to a Jeep rollcage with a Superclamp and ball head.

After that experience -- which to be honest is how most of my shooting should go in the future -- I can say without any reservation whatsoever that the FX1/Z1 cams are just too large for my needs (and yes, I've held them and compared). Every extra once of camera weight is that much more I have to drag around all day while hiking.

I'd love an HD cam in the relative size-range of the PDX10...but until I really *need* HD, I can't see migrating to a larger cam.

I think you should start considering a shoulder mount support
or a stabilizer with support.

I personally like the stabilizer idea better since it can accomplish more
that just support.

Oh gosh, believe me....better camera support of some sort is the NEXT THING on my "gotta-have-it" list. I'm doing research on support right now, and in fact have a local rental shop working on helping me too; I'm going to try out a few things they have to see what works best, and then I'll buy what fits my needs/style. I've been searching through the "Support Your Local Camera" forum here as well, trying to see what others have had success with.

:-)

A cupholder. Beside that, I'm satisfied.

Ja! I remember once I suggested the Z1 was the logical next step from the PDX10 and Boyd disagreed, do you remeber Boyd? <grin>.

I would love a PDX-like product which does HDV, but with the PDX10 form factor and a larger sensor. But I am afraid the only way to approach a PD170-like sensitivity with better than SD resolution is to have a much larger sensor! Unfortunately, there must be some physical limit, we probably can't have a 1/2" or even a 1/3" sensor in such small camera... so... this leaves me wishing for something like the upcoming JVC prosumer 720p HDV camera, HD100 I think is it's denomination. So if JVC is making it, no need to wait for Sony jeje. If I had the money and interest now in buying a new camera, the JVC is probably what I would go for. I am sure I am not the only one that feels that way, and I am sure Sony must be aware of this, so I guess it's only a question of time before Sony upgrades the PDX10 into some small HDV camcorder. Of course as Boyd mentions, the current HDV offerings cost much more than the PDX10, but perhaps by the time Sony get's to the next phase and replaces the PDX10, pricing will be closer to what some of us paid for the PDX10.

Whatever Sony does, I hope their next HDV camera can do some form of real proscan and can write HDV at SSP (DVCAM) tape speed and track pitch for the added reliability. If they could add linear audio to the mix, they would at least be catching up with JVC in *something*.

Well... as usuall there is enough guesswork in my post to send this thread straight into area 51!

Hey Juan,
I could use the smaller size because I shoot documentary stuff. Staying low key is crucial. Also traveling with the camera is much easier with a smaller form factor.
___________
Again, in my mind, the 3 most important things are:

1. HDV (with true 24p option)
2. some kind of hard drive (or flash based) recording built in.
3. smallest form factor possible.

If they can hit those marks I believe they'd sell a ton of camera's especially with the crossover prosumer/consumer thing they've got going with the pdx10/TRV950 sales structure.
I'm hoping that with Panasonic & JVC breathing down Sony's neck they have to speed up their release schedule and get the HDV ball rolling. In my opinion the HVX200 completely stole Sony's thunder and has the pros/prosumers second guessing weather to jump into the HDV game or skip it and go right to HD with Panasonic for only a relatively small amount of money more.

Ja! I remember once I suggested the Z1 was the logical next step from the PDX10 and Boyd disagreed

Really? Here's what I said:Yeah, I agree it is sort of the logical successor and it addresses most of my PDX-10 beefs... I may very well get one.

In other threads I've suggested that the FX-1 might be a viable alternative because it's cheaper than the Z-1 and addresses many of the PDX-10's shortcomings (better manual controls, 16:9 LCD, larger chips, bigger batteries, component output, etc). The Z-1 really goes way beyond the PDX-10 in features. But neither of these cameras is positioned like the PDX-10 or PD-100 in Sony's lineup.

A small HDV camera would certainly be cool. But Chris wants it to go way beyond the Z-1! :-) The PD-100 and PDX-10 were deliberately given less features than the PD-150 and were positioned as a low budget entry to DVCAM. I think it was sort of an accident that the PDX-10 got a high resolution 16:9 mode. Read way back to the beginning of this forum as people realized how good the 16:9 was... they were amazed that Sony wasn't bragging about this. IIRC, the enhanced 16:9 mode was not really publicized when the camera was first released.

So unless Sony re-orders their whole lineup I'd expect any "pdx-20" to have less features than the Z-1 and be budget priced, probably less than the FX-1. But I'm not at all sure we'll see a pdx-10 sucessor anytime soon. And look what happened to their "crossover" product that you mention, the TRV-950. We got the HC-1000. It has really been dumbed down with no physical controls (touch screen for everything), a tiny battery compartment, a smaller LCD screen. That may very well say more about Sony's direction than the Z-1 does...

Hey Juan,
I could use the smaller size because I shoot documentary stuff. Staying low key is crucial. Also traveling with the camera is much easier with a smaller form factor.
___________
Again, in my mind, the 3 most important things are:

1. HDV (with true 24p option)
2. some kind of hard drive (or flash based) recording built in.
3. smallest form factor possible.

If they can hit those marks I believe they'd sell a ton of camera's especially with the crossover prosumer/consumer thing they've got going with the pdx10/TRV950 sales structure.
Final Cut Express HD is a hint to me that consumer HDV cams
will be available soon. I won't bet it'll be a PDX10 successor though.

But as I said before, IMO the real PDX10 successor is already out : Z1U

One feature that would be interesting; what if the new three chip HDV could film at 4x speed, pal 100fps, NTSC 120fps, so that in editing or play back you could capture action and slow it down with much better results. Now that so many people are wanting to film sports etc this would be great for the prosumer. In the good old days when I used reel to reel tapes we could change the speed of the tape with ease, why not video??

Hey guys,

I've split off the responses about the new Sony HC1 and A1 into their own thread... if you want to follow it and carry on from there, the location is:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=44906

Much respect,