Howdy from Vegas,

Sitting here in the Paris Rivoli room at the NAB Apple pres. w/my good friend Chris Ward... Panasonic's John Baisley brought the HVX200 out on stage... yes, Virginia, it has a DV tape transport in addition to P2, best of all it's $5995 in Q4 this year.

Woohoo!

More tonight when I get back to my hotel,

Oh, and I'll try to get a P2 Info Net (http://www.p2info.net) update done tonight as well.

Thanks Chris!
Means a lot to those of us who can't be there.

Keep the info coming!
(i'll put up with the new layout if it means more HVX news)

:)
(just a joke of course)

Oh my god, great to hear that!
Not that I have the money, but I think most of us (I did) thought: well... under 10k? will be 9.995 then...

But 6k? Great!
AND a DV transport, damn...

Thank you for the information, Chris!

The only thing that sucks is that it has a DV transport tape drive. I want tape to die. I saw this as the first true solid state camera with no dc motors or gears except in the lens. For those that wanted only P2 and harddrive fw support, we will be paying money for a whole tape drive and intergrated technology that goes to waste.

Hey Jan, anyway to cut out the tape mechanisms and related support technology with a hacksaw?

Maybe we can get the italian guys to do it.

michael pappas ( Legacy Sucks )


Howdy from Vegas,

Sitting here in the Paris Rivoli room at the NAB Apple pres. w/my good friend Chris Ward... Panasonic's John Baisley brought the HVX200 out on stage... yes, Virginia, it has a DV tape transport in addition to P2, best of all it's $5995 in Q4 this year.

Woohoo!

More tonight when I get back to my hotel,

Although I was really excited about this new Panasonic camera and the forward progression that it was bringing with it - I had written it off as applicable to my own business because I too figured the price would be in the $9k+ area.

Now that its going to be $6k and I'll guess a street price of $5-5.5k - this thing is not only back in the game for me and lots of people like me, but also a very serious and practical consideration.

Good going Panasonic!

I was just telling someone the the same thing last night. If it's 8k, I won't buy it. But 6K with a street price of 5,600. Can't beat that.. I kinda feel sorry for Sony now. Naaaaaaa, not really they made their bed. Now they can sleep in it. Cineframe 24, what a joke!

Panasonic did it right!


Although I was really excited about this new Panasonic camera and the forward progression that it was bringing with it - I had written it off as applicable to my own business because I too figured the price would be in the $9k+ area.

Now that its going to be $6k and I'll guess a street price of $5-5.5k - this thing is not only back in the game for me and lots of people like me, but also a very serious and practical consideration.

Good going Panasonic!

It´s a shame, i have to get a camera for a documentary I´m shooting this summer. No Panasonic for me then:(

There are some pictures from the Apple event of the HVX200 on dvxuser.com:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=25049

- Mikko

is a tape transport really such a bad thing? I mean comon, look at the camera as a whole....1337s4uc3

The pic says "DV tape recording". So I assume full size tapes?

Going by the pictures, i'd say the camera is too small to hold full size DV tapes. It'll most likly be just MiniDV (cheaper)

And it supoorts some sort of hard drive recording too.. though no idea what type. (might need external hardware like firestore..)

- Mikko.

If anyone is interested, I've started a page to keep all the HVX200 info I can find, including links to articles and pictures.

the link is:

http://videoindie.blogspot.com


There isn't a whole lot on there right now, the page is only a few minutes old.
Enjoy.

Some close up pictures on camcorderinfo and dvxuser..

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=25055

- Mikko.

The pic says "DV tape recording". So I assume full size tapes?

Mike, it's Mini.

Sigh..

so.. is the DV tape transport for recording DV/DVCAM only?
Is the DVCPRO SD/HD only available via P2 and/or external drive?

Yes, tape is DV and DVCPro only. DVCPro HD tape transport would have put the cam in the $20K range at least!

l know this is dreaming a bit but one thing l like about the price not being 10K is that just maybe Panasonic might have a 1/2 detachable lense version of the HVX200 in the 10K price bracket in the wings. They would never bring out a 2/3 version as stated earlier in a post as it would eat into the market of camera's like SDX900 etc. At least with a 1/2 detachable version you could maybe invest in a 1/2 to 2/3 adapter and make an investment of a good quality 2/3 lense which could be most likely used with future camera's as well as being able to give more film like DOP.

That's my whish & dream for now.

Andrew P

That would be the perfect affordable HD camera. I would even pay 15,000 for it with a stock lens. But I think it will not happen any time soon. Not from Panasonic or Sony.

So pretty much, the Z1 has some competition, but the FX1 is safe for a while? That's what is sounds like to me. And since I own the FX1, I guess I can stop thinking about my next camera for a while.

Very impressive! Only thing is, they say "Q4"... Does that mean September 1 or December 31?... Once it's released it will probably be tough to get a hold for a little while (and personally I don't like to be the first kid on the block with a new camera design :-) So it could be anywhere from 6 to 12 months before people start getting these in any quantity.

So while this camera looks really cool, and the price is attractive, the Z-1 doesn't really have much competition for awhile. And perhaps it will help drive the price down a bit on the Z-1 as well...

Looking at Panasonic's history, when they say Q4 they usually mean Sep. / Oct.

Very impressive! Only thing is, they say "Q4"... Does that mean September 1 or December 31?... Once it's released it will probably be tough to get a hold for a little while (and personally I don't like to be the first kid on the block with a new camera design :-) So it could be anywhere from 6 to 12 months before people start getting these in any quantity.

So while this camera looks really cool, and the price is attractive, the Z-1 doesn't really have much competition for awhile. And perhaps it will help drive the price down a bit on the Z-1 as well...


Boyd I agree with you here. The Z1 can sit pretty tight for sometime, and, well who knows what will happen in the mean time? I could see Sony adding real 24p and a few other features. Maybe even coming out with another camera? Seeing as it's going to take this long, I might end up with something like the HD100 - or, just getting a DVX for now.

Aaron

So can it record any HD on tape?

The FX1 is a great camera. I have seen beautiful images captured with it. I have even printed 8x10's from deinterlaced frames and they look awesome. I can get a Z1U and get a firestore with HDV support ( when released ) for less then the AG-HVX200. I am considering this route. Then convert the files to DVCproHD in FCP to edit with. It's all up in the air right now.

When you buy the AG-HVX200 for 6K, it's just a DV camera that can do HD, but to do DVCPRO HD one must either have a Firestore like device or P2.

So add at-least the price of the P2 or hard drive, That's another 1,500 to 2,000 dollars. Not incuding new hardrives to archive material you need to keep for ever.

Newer computer to edit with. My G4's are not going to cut it. I must spend alteast another $3,000 on a G5,

I belive that the AG-HVX200 should have came standard with a 2gig starter P2 to film DVCPRO HD. It is after all an HD camera.

Bad mistake by Panasonic not to include a minium 2gig which does not give one much time, but good to start learning your HD work flow with and the camera.

Michael Pappas




So pretty much, the Z1 has some competition, but the FX1 is safe for a while? That's what is sounds like to me. And since I own the FX1, I guess I can stop thinking about my next camera for a while.

That's what I'm feeling Michael - not to have HD out of the box is a shame. But who knows, it's months before it comes out, so it might do by then! With all this in mind, I might consider the HD100 when it comes out in June. Interchangeable lens, 720p. Too bad it's HDV.


Aaron

But I'll miss Sony's focus presets, oh well... nice enough trade:)

"Yes, tape is DV and DVCPro only"

Chris, was that a typo?
Or do you mean we can shoot DVCPro onto tape?

I thought DVCPro required MP tape, and that was only made in full DV tape shells.

If it is true, any idea how much time we get out of a 60min miniDV tape?
If I'm not mistaken, DVCPro requires the tape to run faster than DVCam runs (and you get 40min on a 60min DV tape in DVCam mode).


I'm assuming you meant to say it was DV only to tape...but if it is DVCPro to tape, that's really good news for some people!

Sony could add a firmware upgrade to create a 24P mode. If that happen, I might get the Z1U. The cineframe 24 debacle should have Sony feeling real stupid.


Boyd I agree with you here. The Z1 can sit pretty tight for sometime, and, well who knows what will happen in the mean time? I could see Sony adding real 24p and a few other features. Maybe even coming out with another camera? Seeing as it's going to take this long, I might end up with something like the HD100 - or, just getting a DVX for now.

Aaron

If it is true, any idea how much time we get out of a 60min miniDV tape?
If I'm not mistaken, DVCPro requires the tape to run faster than DVCam runs (and you get 40min on a 60min DV tape in DVCam mode).

Luis, you're mixing up DVCPro tape formats. When Chris said DVCPro, he meant DVCPro25. You're expecting that to mean DVCPro50.

"Luis, you're mixing up DVCPro tape formats. When Chris said DVCPro, he meant DVCPro25. You're expecting that to mean DVCPro50."

No, I'm not mixing up formats.
I guess I should have clarified and said DVCPro25 so that there was no confusion.

You can see the difference between the formats here:
http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-tech.html

DVCPro25 uses MP tape and runs at 33.82mm/sec, while DVCam runs at 28.215mm/s, and DV runs at 18.81mm/s.


I'll be really suprised if we can record DVCPro25 to a miniDV tape.

No, I'm not mixing up formats.
<snip>
You can see the difference between the formats here:
http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-tech.html

DVCPro25 uses MP tape and runs at 33.82mm/sec, while DVCam runs at 28.215mm/s, and DV runs at 18.81mm/s.
My bad... I learned something new, so thanks. I agree, I'd be surprised if miniDV tape could handle that tape velocity too. My confusion came from thinking of the data rate (25mbps) without considering the tape's speed.

Is anyone else a little disappointed that a P2 card isn't included with the camera? Having to put down another $2000 for one 4 gig card sours the taste a bit for me. Even a 2 gig card would sweeten the deal.

"My bad... I learned something new, so thanks. I agree, I'd be surprised if miniDV tape could handle that tape velocity too. My confusion came from thinking of the data rate (25mbps) without considering the tape's speed."

No problem, these things get really confusing sometimes.
Especially when discussing 3 different 25mb/s formats that are essentially exactly the same except for the way they are laid to tape.

Is anyone else a little disappointed that a P2 card isn't included with the camera? Having to put down another $2000 for one 4 gig card sours the taste a bit for me. Even a 2 gig card would sweeten the deal.

Well, I don't think they are even making the 2GB cards anymore.
But, keep in mind that by the time the camera is released, the 8GB cards will be available, and Panasonic has said those cards will run $1700 (the price of a 4gb card today). So, it's safe to assume a 4gb card will be less than $1000 when the camera is released.

Either way, I think the camera is very competatively priced.
I suppose they could have priced it at $6995 and included a 4GB P2 card...
but as they say...6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

"Luis, you're mixing up DVCPro tape formats. When Chris said DVCPro, he meant DVCPro25. You're expecting that to mean DVCPro50."

No, I'm not mixing up formats.
I guess I should have clarified and said DVCPro25 so that there was no confusion.

You can see the difference between the formats here:
http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-tech.html

DVCPro25 uses MP tape and runs at 33.82mm/sec, while DVCam runs at 28.215mm/s, and DV runs at 18.81mm/s.


I'll be really suprised if we can record DVCPro25 to a miniDV tape.


Is it safe to assume shooting in DVCam or DVCPro modes are usually louder than regular ol' DV?

BTW - I'm very excited by all the news so far.

"Is it safe to assume shooting in DVCam or DVCPro modes are usually louder than regular ol' DV?

First off, just so there is no confusion, this camera does not shoot in DVCam.
DVCam is a Sony format.

A DVCPro camera is not any louder than a DV camera as far as I know, I'm assuming you mean because the tape transport runs faster?

I don't think it really makes any noticable difference in terms of sound.

Is anyone else a little disappointed that a P2 card isn't included with the camera? Having to put down another $2000 for one 4 gig card sours the taste a bit for me. Even a 2 gig card would sweeten the deal.

I'm sure there will be two bundles when the cam is released. One with cards, and one without. One for $6k, and one for $10k.

Including a card would raise the price, and I'm happy with getting into HD slowly, rather than have to jump in at $10k.

"Is it safe to assume shooting in DVCam or DVCPro modes are usually louder than regular ol' DV?

First off, just so there is no confusion, this camera does not shoot in DVCam.
DVCam is a Sony format.

A DVCPro camera is not any louder than a DV camera as far as I know, I'm assuming you mean because the tape transport runs faster?

I don't think it really makes any noticable difference in terms of sound.

Hey! I know my formats! ;P

Yes, I meant because of the speed. Is it even possible to run MiniDV tape at 33mm/sec?

EDIT - Duh....I guess we don't know for sure yet...Maybe they'll (Panny) come out with their own $20 MiniDV stock made just for the cam.

If anyone is interested, I've started a page to keep all the HVX200 info I can find, including links to articles and pictures.

the link is:

http://videoindie.blogspot.com


Great work Luis - it's looking really good. A nice little one stop shop so the rest of us don't have to run around the whole of cyberspace trying to pick up a new smidgen of information

Thanks!

Thanks Josh.
Sorry it's so disorganized...but like I said, I'm just throwing stuff up there as soon as I find it.


by the way, you should be able to get to the same site now by going to:

www.videoindie.com

I read on dvxuser that any old firewire drive would work hooked up to the camera. The camera basically just writes video files to the P2 cards so it can easily write the same files to a hard drive. This means you could get a very cheap external firewire drive and shoot HD. I know this isn't very easy to haul around especially if it isn't battery powered but at least we could use HD on the camera. This should also work hooking up to a computer as well.

As for people saying Panasonic should add more to the price and include a small card. How is that different than you just buying the camera at it's current price and buying a small card at the same time? The price would be the same. You just don't get it in one nice box.

I read on dvxuser that any old firewire drive would work hooked up to the camera. The camera basically just writes video files to the P2 cards so it can easily write the same files to a hard drive. This means you could get a very cheap external firewire drive and shoot HD. I know this isn't very easy to haul around especially if it isn't battery powered but at least we could use HD on the camera. This should also work hooking up to a computer as well.

As for people saying Panasonic should add more to the price and include a small card. How is that different than you just buying the camera at it's current price and buying a small card at the same time? The price would be the same. You just don't get it in one nice box.


If Panasonic bundled a card, they could give it to us cheaper - maybe even at cost. Then the price wouldn't go up that much. Seeing as we may have to buy them, we need to pay retail. I think if we saw the numbers (What it cost them to make, VS what they sell for) we'd be saving a packet - this is pure speculation of course.


What I'm interested about is the rumour that Panasonic have had it working into an iPod. Now *that* is nice - something that small, attached to a camera would be perfect.

Aaron

If Panasonic allowed people to record to regular hard drives, that would be more shattering new technology then P2 is, in my opinion!

and a sure fire seller!

- Shannon W. Rawls

Jesse is correct. If you stick with the original $10,000 price (actually $9995) you get two 8-gig cards included with the camera.

If you buy just the camera itself, that's what costs $5,995.

camcorderinfo.com says that it only records 8 minutes on the miniDV tapes. Ouch.

and why is it that adam wilt's website says:

HDV records high-definition video on DV tapes:
* 720p is recorded at roughly 19 Mbit/sec while 1080i records at 25 mbit/sec.
* In 720p, the luma sampling matrix is 1280x720, square pixel, exceeding DVCPROHD's 960x720 sampling.
* In 1080i, the sampling matrix is 1440x1080, with 1.33:1 pixels; this is the same luma sampling used in HDCAM and exceeds DVCPROHD's 1280x1080 sampling.

Is recording 100MB/s on DVC Pro HD the crucial difference to give a better image ?

I'm all so confused with the scary world of HD.

That 8 minutes on a tape is just wrong. If the tape mechanism is a standard miniDV (DV25) mechanism, it will just record plain old DV25 - unless I've missed some information somewhere.

There is also the colour sampling. DVCPROHD and DVCPRO50 is 4:2:2 whereas HDV is 4:2:0 which is half the vertical colour resolution of the other.

Aaron

That 8 minutes on a tape is just wrong.
Aaron

'wrong' being a typo, a mistake or 'wrong' as in 'why bother with tape' ??

Oops, I see there the ambiguity could come in. I'm saying "wrong" as a typo. I had a quick look through the camcorderinfo article and is this the sentence you're referring to?


When asked by this publication about why users should pick a HD P2 solution with only 8 minutes of video combined with a normal, SD DV tape, or HDV as other manufacturers are offering, Jim Wickizer, a Panasonic spokesperson said one word: "Quality."


If so, I think you misread. They weren't saying "you get 8 minutes of video ON a normal SD DV tape", they were saying "you get 8 minutes on p2, and a normal SD DV tape mechanism that can only record SD" as opposed to one on an HDV camera that can record HiDef.

Aaron

now I geddit. right.

Boyd I agree with you here. The Z1 can sit pretty tight for sometime, and, well who knows what will happen in the mean time? I could see Sony adding real 24p and a few other features. Maybe even coming out with another camera? Seeing as it's going to take this long, I might end up with something like the HD100 - or, just getting a DVX for now.

Aaron


I thought about getting a HD100 till the HVX200 comes out and then if I like it better, sell the HD100and get a DVX. But I'm afraid of the HD100 not holding it's re-sale price, specially after the HVX200 comes out. It's juts that I have a project to shoot now in summer and would like to shoot some flavor of HD. I guess I will just have to shoot it with my trusted AG-DVC200 :)