Hi,

I will be using a Sound Devices mixpre 2 channel mixer with my DVX100A to record sound with a sennheiser 416 mic.

Could someone outline the basic setup for this, i.e. how to input/output via the field mixer?

Thanx very much.

I think maybe I'm missing something... How many mics will you be using? If it's just one, I don't see why you need the mixer. This would be good if you had two mics, mixing them into your cam. For just one mic, run it straight into your cam without the mixer.

Hey Keith,

My main concern is getting the best sound quality from the shotgun mic.

I am recording with the shotgun on one channel, the internal mic on the second. My goal is to be free to shoot on the run without worrying about levels. I found doing both to be quite distracting, and the level controls on the dvx are difficult to adjust in the field.

I'm certainly open to any better suggestions.

How many audio inputs do you have? Again, I'm not sure you would need to use the mixer, but, you would have to run both mics into it, then to the stereo in, or left and right in, depending on your setup. I think ;)

the mixer has 2 channels, and I'm mainly focused on getting proper levels for the shotgun. In short, I'm not worried about the second channel audio (in-camer mic).

The idea is to input the shotgun into the mixer, and then go from the mixer to the camera, recording the already mixed mic sound onto one channel only.

Let me know if you feel this is a waste of time/money. Perhaps the in-camera limiters are ok enough if the levels get pinned?

How many mic inputs on the cam?

My GL1 for instance, just has a 1/8" stereo jack, so I can only record 2 channels. I can use either the on cam mic OR the aux input. But not both.

The XLs have 2 XLRs... if I remember correctly. You have 4 channels on the cam, so you would be able to run the mixer into your aux, while the cam's mic would would take channels 1&2, or left and right. You still with me? Of course, that would be 3 channels, 2 stereo, and one mono.

I don't know anything about the DVX to be honest. You may be able to use the shotgun and on cam mic, if it has 4 channel audio capabilities.

Yes, the DVX has two XLR inputs. I'm still trying to understand the idea of getting 3 channels…please bear with me. Any clarification will be appreciated.

Also, do you see the need for a mixer based on my reasoning or do you still feel it is not needed?

As far as I can tell, you should be able to plug the mic directly into your cam. Give it a five minute test run and see.

You can plug the 416 directly into the DVX100a camera with the phantom power activated and the mic level menu set to -50db.
For loud situations though this hot mic may overload the sensitive mic input of that camera. And as you mentioned it's much easier to control the audio with a mixer rather than with the camera controls.
Unfortunately, the output of the MixPre is a little hotter than the line-level input of the DVX100a. You'll have to be very careful about overloading the camera input when using this mixer unless you get a 5 or 10db attenuator for line level, or a 55db attenuator for mic level.
It will be very important for someone to monitor from the camera to listen for input overload. This input overload can happen before the recording level meters indicated an overload.
You can use the RCA outs of the camera with a cable that returns to the MixPre monitor input and listen that way.

Jay, thanks so much for your insight, which is key.

Could you please explain what an attenuator is...

You could pan the shotgun to both channels so that one channel is ~15dB (15 is somewhat arbitrary) louder/hotter than the other. This way you can get a little lazier setting your levels, as one track will likely be good.

So, by panning one can essentially get two tracks out of one microphone?

a tip that someone gave me when i first got my dvx-100a was to run the shotgun mic to input #2 and then set the camera to use input #2 for both the left and the right channels.

intput #1 can't be used this way, only #2.

so you feed one mic to both channels and then you set the levels a little bit different so if one is too hot then the other is perfect.

still take a little bit of care to make sure they are both close to what you want.

i would avoid a mixer if you can.

keep it simple.

i'm considering using a mixer only because i'm going to be doing a bunch of more elaborate shorts and we may have a dedicated sound guy and the thinking is that the sound guy could hang the mixer around his neck to get a feed for headphones and then i can listen in on the camera to see how the levels are.

i'd almost rather put a small headphone amp on the rca out and run a headphone extension to the sound/boom guy so he can't screw anything up and i can work the sound levels myself.

matthew

I knew it would only be a matter of time, before a real DVX user chimed in. What are you going to be shooting?

Hey Keith - I'm going to filming a documentary in Armenia.

Matthew, Keith, Glen, Jay - Supposing I go with the mixer, how many XLR cables will I need?

The idea of running the mic into the second input is a real insight.

basically you need at least one xlr cable per microphone and then you need one to goto the camera.

if you are going to put the sound on different channels then you need two to the camera.

so at the very most you need 4, unless you are using more than 2 mic's

its a little pricy but one of the best mixers out there is a wendt x2.

it is very small and the sound is wonderful. it has really neat meters.

i don't have one but a friend bought it to use with his dvx and i played with it for a little while and it was neat.

i would just use the volumes in the camera and save yourself a LOT of stress.

matthew

I want to mention again an important point about the specific equipment the original poster is using.
Both the 416 mic and the MixPre mixer are capable of overloading the sensitive inputs of the DVX100a. This overload can occur before the recording level controls and metering come into play. So the often valuable trick of sending a single mic to two channels with one channel set lower may not actually save you.
If the input overloads, even the low channel will distort.

I'm not disagreeing with anything that's been said, there are good points to take from all of it. Sometimes simplicity is better, sometimes the greater control and monitoring available with a mixer is better. The key is knowing when to select the best plan even with the risks that it may involve versus a different plan. It's also important to recognize if a change needs to be made to improve the situation before it's too late.

An attenuator is a passive device that can be plugged between either the mic and the camera or the mixer and the camera.
They are available in different values, Shure and AT make switchable models that will also permit the use of phantom power for your mic. It will be important, unless you're always recording quiet sounds, to have one or two of these available when using high-powered outputs with sensitive inputs.

The key is good monitoring as I and others have mentioned. The DVX100a headphone out isn't very good, but it will let you know if distortion is occuring. The RCA outputs of the camera are much higher quality and either a headphone amp or a special cable back to the MixPre monitor input can be used for excellent monitoring. This cable is wired with two RCA male connectors to a single stereo mini plug. There are also wireless devices that will allow monitoring if you must keep the camera as free as possible.
These devices can have dropouts and other quality issues though.
The important thing is to monitor at all times to guard against distortion.

Thanks Jay - your post should be a standard reference for similar questions in the future. I intend to print and keep this thread with me as I travel. It has been a great education and I'm grateful to you all.

I guess I may as well invest in the mixer, and use it as I see necessary, based on the pros and cons expressed here.

A more mundane question: Is the wendt 2x significantly better than the sound devices?

Hi everyone.
I also am considering purchasing the mix pre.
I do alot of weddings / live stuff where audio on the run is required and the limiting function of a mixer is invaluable.
I have a sony dsr250 and a AT4073a mic.

So, if a mixer is used in a camera/shotgun setup does the audio signal pass through the mixer preamps AND the camera preamps?

If so, is there a way of bypassing the camera preamps as im guessing the mixer preamps are far superior as far as audio quality goes?

Thanks guys :)

Use mic into your mixer and line out to the camera, that bypasses the camera mic in preamp. A good mixer will have better preamps than any DV25 camera. I use a wendt 4x with an Ikegami DV7 in the field with a 416 and interiors with Schoeps m41. When you feed clean line into the camera, you lower the noise floor in cam.

If given the time and logistics, always use a high quality mixer.