For years I have used only pentium based NLE systems and now I started with HDV production and thinking of buying AMD ATHLON 64 3500+ SCK939

I'm tired of talking about processor architecture, Hyperthreading, SSE3, etc... I'm just wondering: HAS ANYONE TRIED TO EDIT HDV on AMD with one of the available plugins for premiere.
When you go and see HDV editing software requirements, there is STILL Pentium listed in first place...

Can anyone tell me wich way to go?

thanks!

From my experience you are best to stick with Intel, at least in this instance.

We recently upgraded from an Athlon XP 2000+ to an Intel P4 530 (3 GHZ). There was a MUCH bigger jump in performance (working with Vegas and ConnectHD) than one would expect from the 50% increase in clock speed.

One of the few things the Intel outperforms the AMD on is media encoding. So if this were a gaming machine I would say go AMD, but for professional video editing I would stick with Intel.

The biggest thing for us was that we immediately got rid of several compatability issues we had with the AMD. For example, early on ConnectHD had compatability issues with AMD processors (I think they have resolved that now though). The bottom line is that Intel support will always come first from the big companies (Sony, Adobe, etc.), it is just one less thing to worry about.

I would pair a P4 540 (3.2 GHZ) or P4 550 (3.4 GHZ) with the Gigabyte GA-8IP775-G motherboard. We have the P4 520 paired with this motherboard, and it has been rock solid, not a single freeze or blue screen in several months of editing. Get the retail box versions of both, the retail box version of the CPU pays for itself (with that huge fan and heat sink). The nice thing about that motherboard is that it allows you to use the LGA-775 processors (for an easy upgrade path) with standard DDR and AGP (instead of having to buy expensive DDR2 and PCI-X). And Gigabyte is a great motherboard company in general.

That's my 2 cents.

We tried with and AMD 64 system and had big problems, I'm not saying it's the case with all configurations, but you are always safer with Intel I think. We replaced our mainboard and changed processor to a Pentium and now all works fine

I have a 4 Opteron AMD and it kick butts. Make no mistakes, the Athlon and the opteron are two different animals, particularly in multiprocessing, the Opteron is a great CPU for video editing.

Just make sure you buy a good MB and good memory (like you would do with Intel). Tyan does great MB for these use.

hej Ben,

thanks! what do you think of going with 915P chipset, I can take GIGABYTE GA-8I915P-MF instead of GA-8IP775-G which is still very nice mb...

All the companies I know in the HDV PC editing world are talking Intel.

Canopus suggests dual Xeon 3.2
Cineform asks for P4
Even Pinnacle asks for P4

You can row your boat up the river if you want, but why would you want to?

Go with Intel
Go with Xeon

Go with HDV

Praise the......

DBK

<<<-- Originally posted by Haris Sarajlic : hej Ben,

thanks! what do you think of going with 915P chipset, I can take GIGABYTE GA-8I915P-MF instead of GA-8IP775-G which is still very nice mb... -->>>

The 8I915P-MF is technically a better motherboard (with built-in RAID and firewire), but the reasons we didn't buy it were a) it is very hard to find, and b) we wanted to keep our AGP video card.

<<<--

Go with Intel
Go with Xeon

-->>>

This can only be infatuation or lack of knowledge. A dual Opteron system kick the Xeon any day.

<<<-- Originally posted by Gabriele Sartori : <<<--


This can only be infatuation or lack of knowledge. A dual Opteron system kick the Xeon any day. -->>>

Don't show your ignorance.

My posting was quite accurate. All the HDV edit systems are saying go with Intel.

It doesn't make any comment against your beloved Opteron, they have written their code to take advantage of the Intel chip sets and instructions.

Opteron may infact be a superior processor, but these specific code writers decided to write for Intel.

Like I said. Why swim up stream.

DBK

<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly : <<<-- Originally posted by Gabriele Sartori : <<<--


This can only be infatuation or lack of knowledge. A dual Opteron system kick the Xeon any day. -->>>

Don't show your ignorance.
-->>>

Look, Mr. "jumpstartguide.com" I worked 7 years at AMD and I'm the co-inventor of Hypertransport, you can call me BIAS but you can't call me ignorant. I didn't insult you BTW.
You probably don't know that Opteron executes SSE & SSE2 instructions and the pipeline of Opteron is more efficient than those in XEON. Having said that, Opteron has a lower memory latency due to the absence of an external memory controller and it has no bus conflits for concurrent operations due to the multiple hypertransports. A DP Opteron has also twice or quad as much memory BW than a DP XEON due to the twin 128 independent memory banks and controllers. If there is someone that ignores this matter that is you. I don't care a bit about what a SW manual writes . Intels gives "marketing incentives" to write this. The Opteron is faster period, end of the story. Like it or not. I'm not on AMD's paybook btw but from your tone it seems that you are on Intel's.

Study CPU and system architecture, take a couple of masters and in 10 years we may have a conversation at the same level.

Best regards

<<<-- Originally posted by Gabriele Sartori : <<<--


This can only be infatuation or lack of knowledge. I didn't insult you BTW.


You didn't read the above statement as an insult BTW - It sounds like one to me.

Since you have all this knowledge, you also know there is not 100% compatibility between the two processors.

I have no bias to Intel. I just finished building an edit box for HDV on the PC, and after research and talking with each company about their requirements, THEY ALL ASK FOR INTEL.

The original post asked for a recommendation on one or the other. I simply responded with the information I was given by Canopus, Cineform and Pinnacle.

You on the other hand recommended your personal bias to AMD.

After years in the business of building edit systems, I know better than to use a processor, MB, video card or operating system the manufacturer doesn't recommend. The reason is simply this. They tested the configuration and it worked.

Gabriele, I've read your postings on other message boards over the years, and no matter what you recommend AMD. It's not always the right thing to do, but you do it anyway.

If our original poster, or any other reader takes your "educated recommendation" and builds a system that does not comply with the recommendations of the edit software, you're not going to be there to support them are you? No, most likely not. That's why it's important to go with the system the company specs.

the first tech support call they make they are going to have to outline their system, and when they are told they can't help because it is not a supported configuration your recommendation will leave a bad taste in their mouth.

If that's not in your best interest, I'm truly sorry, but using the recommended parts are in the best interest of the user most of the time.

Bye Gabe

I can't find the post right now but will look and post when I find it---but David Newman from Cineform said that for Single processor systems Intel was better but for Dual systems Opterons had the edge over Xeon's. Most competitive tests that I have seen give Intel the edge in encoding but almost everything else to AMD. The problem with most of the hardware NLE boards is a PCI bus management problem where the AMD motherboard chip sets from VIA etc did not conform correctly and caused problems with Canopus, Matrox etc. Pure software NLE's will of course still give Intel P4 the edge over the single AMD because of the SSE3 help for encoding and hypertransport. Opterons and Xeons are different and with AMD support SSE3 this summer will see some different test results. My take at the moment is for hardware based NLE use Intel with Intel motherboard chip set, for software only then dual Opteron is likely the winner.

Ron Evans

Can anyone suggest me hardware list for dual Opteron or Xeon NLE system and how much $ do I need?
THANKS!

<<<-- Originally posted by Haris Sarajlic : Can anyone suggest me hardware list for dual Opteron or Xeon NLE system and how much $ do I need?
THANKS! -->>>

Choose your application first.

Then go to the web site for that application and read the required hardware.

Buy what they tell you

DBK

I already have Aspect HD v.2.5 on Premiere, that's why I'm asking for Dual-processor system advice

Aspect HD v.2.5 System Requirements:

Recommended

* CPU 2.8+ GHz HT Pentium 4 or Athlon FX
* Dual-processor Xeon or Opteron (1)
* Memory 512MB Dual-channel PC3200 DDR or 1066MHz RDRAM
* Drives System: Dedicated drive
* Video Store: One dedicated 7200 rpm drive OR two or more drives organized as RAID 0 (for best performance)
* OS Windows XP plus Service Pack 2 w/DirectX 9
* Software Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5
* Physical I/O Firewire (IEEE 1394) controller for connection to camcorder
* Graphics Card AGP graphics card with onboard memory. No shared memory setups as is common with motherboard-based graphics chipsets


If anyone can help I would be very grateful!!!
Thanks!

"Study CPU and system architecture, take a couple of masters and in 10 years we may have a conversation at the same level. "

How about we skip that and just make the practical observation that most hardware and software developers still design and test for Intel compatibility first, with secondary consideration (maybe) for AMD. Like it or not, for cutting edge products like HDV editing, reliability and compatibility are much more important than possible slight differences in performance. Not to say that AMD systems won't work well with cutting edge products, but it's just common sense that we can't be as sure of this as we can be with Intel (and even that's not a sure thing).

Call all that FUD if you'd like, but it's also reality.

Intel recommandation is a commercial agreement too !

Like "Toshiba recommands Windows XP for better experience"!

(and what about Linux experience ???).


The lack of AMD recommandation except SSE3 is too because video editing companies let retailers and end-users to be the beta tester. They try in these way to have strict recommandation for warranty of use. A short compatible list, never exhaustive !


Instead of AMD / Via, AMD / Nvidia nForce is great tandem.


Edius 3.22 and Premiere Pro 1.51 are well running on my AMD XP 3000 station with 1 Go RAM.


Theses forums could promote a special place for threads about "your own good configuration with Premiere, with Avid, with Edius, with Vegas...". And with statistics for speed researches.


Why not ?

Gabriele , I thought the latest Opterons now support SSE3 instructions and the 64Fx didn't.

And everything I'm reading about ISV's converting their software to 64bit puts the Opteron even farther out in front of the Xeon. Cakewalk/Sonar is going gaga over it. Everyone is hoping AMD will offer SSE3 support in upcoming 64fx chips.


Add the new nForcePro chipset and the ability to run multiple nForecPro chipsets on a single mobo (expanding the number of 16bit PCI express slots...), you have some incredible desktop power coming out. Lets not get started on the support for SLI graphics features for those of you doing heavy 3D work.


Unfortunately, most of us can't afford those expensive Opteron systems.
So for most of us Intel P4HT is still the best way to go for a single chip based system.

You are correct Joe. That latest Opteron was released with SSE3.

What Darren said, go with what the software mfgr recommends is the safest route.

I heard good stuff about dual opterons if amd for film then only opterons ,or Intel is other way. Amd was always better in gaming and intel in aplication.

<<<-- Originally posted by Marcin Tyszka : I heard good stuff about dual opterons if amd for film then only opterons ,or Intel is other way. Amd was always better in gaming and intel in aplication. -->>>

Yes, AMD for gaming and some server ops (many, especially with more than 2 CPUs). Not always Intel for apps. In fact, many apps do better with AMD. There are just some core things with video editing and animation that Intel still leads the way.

AMD opetron 248 dual processor systems are compatible with HDV and editing softwares like avid,vegas,primerie works fine. Go to boxxtech.com . This is a new austin tx based company. I looked into it. You have to make sure you are not using AMD athlon. Athlon is for Computer graphics software like Maya and computer games.

I have 2.3ghz althon mobile with 1gb memory and it works just fine with premiere or vegas. I edited 30 minutes short and few wedings on this machine and it did just fine. I'm sure with dual cpu this will fly. Also if you will do feature films and all stuff then this won't go too strong heh.

Just a question on the Opteron model, is there a minimum model number to use that supports SSE3.

At the end of the day you build a system that you feel comfortable you can support - I agree that if you want the safest bet you choose Intel as it gives you the biggest clout if anything goes wrong. AMD as it has always done tries to give more bangs for your bucks. One other thing is that most of us don't just use our coimputers for video editing (I don't have the space for more machines) so conflicts and reliability aren't always down to the chip chosen. My AMD system runs fine and very rarely crashes, my next machine will probably be a dual pro with XP 64 Bit (Which will probably fall over at every stage until SP 1 comes out for both OS and applications.

Bottom line is your comfort level - Full comfort buy a Dell, next level build an Intel and finally the money misers (like me!) build an AMD. This is not that AMD's are less reliable, just if you need to talk to a manufacturer there will be fewer hurdles to leap over if it says Intel on the box.

Oh one golden rule (learnt from very bitter experience) only buy BRANDED 1Gb and larger memory DIMMS. That £30 to £50 just isn't worth it.

Hope this is useful to someone !!

The Opteron 252 is the first to add SSE3 -- these are really nice/fast CPUs. However most applications don't need (or even use) SSE3 -- none of the CineForm tools need it (all SSE2 optimized.) So you only need the CPU to match your needs. For HDV dual 248s would be blazing. For HDSDI work under Prospect HD the 252s can be handy. Yes I recommend dual Opteron as the best HD editing system.

The Key to all this rabling and knife slashing is this statement right here..
irrespective of what ur thoughts or experiences may be with performance the fact that the product WORKS shoudl be enough to assist in the decision making..

"If our original poster, or any other reader takes your "educated recommendation" and builds a system that does not comply with the recommendations of the edit software, you're not going to be there to support them are you? No, most likely not. That's why it's important to go with the system the company specs."


either way i dont care, but jsut note that Intel jsut released their dual core systems, and AMD will be following soon.

xeon is actaully quite an old technology (in IT terms) so it might be best to wait till the new 955 chipset is releasd