After lots of our tries, we persuade classic ground glass is not usable. We let made custom GG from glass, which we attached to hard disk drive. We reached good stable image, but still lots of vigneting. Using 24x18 is such waste of DOF - In fact because you zoom from 36mm to 24mm, you decrease resolution in 1/4. Also you need to be farther from scene, so more things become sharp... I tried to use old fresnel lens in front of rotating ground glass and it was fabulous... So much light now, even in corners, no vigneting... Am I doing something wrong, or fresnel lens is only one way to reach real 36mm ?

Help please...

see the difference between plain GG and Fresnel here:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests
that is why, the only way (I know of) to get a FULL 24/36mm
image WITHOUT vigneting IS using a Fresnel focusing screen.

Do the Beattie. Good stuff.

www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/stills/35mm_Still36.png

Barely any light and still a nice image, and no lens distortion.

Cmmooon Steve,
show some outdoor or even indoor but even lit, so the corners are CLEARLY bright with no VIGNETING AT FULL 24/36 (or even bigger) SIZE!
(it almost looks like I did the brightness tests for myself and I am talking to myself here) well,... you've got it allright! :-)<

Eh.. haven't gotten around to it yet with the latest Beattie screen that i ground down to a perfect 54mm (or so) circle.

The point being that the Beattie was the breakthrough for me, a vast improvement from using simple ground glass.

www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/stills/35mm_Still27.png

Blah ba blah blahhhhhh. :)

Still waiting for Dan to hook up his best friend Steev over here with his kick ass invention.

grazie signore, working on it!

Super Shweeet :D

Steve, is that a static GG (beattie screen) that you are using? I am unsure what you meant by 'grinding it down to 54mm'. Any chance you can elaborate? BTW, those shots looked amazing!

Opps, just checked out your site, thanks!

I noticed that you use a 10+ macro - I have one and it is impossible to see anything more than an 1 inch away from it - is that why you put the beattie screen with it?

BTW, that outdoor footage is amazing! The best that I have seen!

Mandy, that's my simple, yet expensively invented static device. I bought a Square plain Beattie screen and ground it on sandpaper until it was perfectly round and would fit inside an empty 55mm filter ring.

By and large, people aren't caring too much for a static adapter these days. However, this thing is useable "today." Still waiting for the better solutions to actually arrive on the doorstep. Perhaps in the next 6 months? Perhaps after NAB when an affordable Panasonic DVCPRO HD camera comes out?

:D :D :D

steev
www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Diaconu : see the difference between plain GG and Fresnel here:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests
that is why, the only way (I know of) to get a FULL 24/36mm
image WITHOUT vigneting IS using a Fresnel focusing screen. -->>>

Yes, I've seen this many times :) Is what you are using beattie focus screen, or just some fresnel lens from standard camera ?

Steev Dinkins : Probably Beattie (or some fresnel lens from camera finder) is only one way I will move now... But I notice some color aberation on some of your photos... I do not know if you solve it out, but I had same problem caused by macro lens. I throw this away, bought Pentacon 135 lenses, broke it and took front lens of it and used it as macro. All color aberation is gone :)

Ack. Infinite ways we find to create these monsters. The aberation is minor enough to be insignificant to me, especially where I'd been in earlier development. At this point I realize the far bigger challenge is getting out with a script, gear, talent, drive, and time to shoot something worthwhile. The image quality is definitely more than good enough for all kinds of indie goodness.

To be on topic with you here, yes the Beattie was a god send. Awesome thingy. :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Steev Dinkins : Ack. Infinite ways we find to create these monsters. The aberation is minor enough to be insignificant to me, especially where I'd been in earlier development. At this point I realize the far bigger challenge is getting out with a script, gear, talent, drive, and time to shoot something worthwhile. The image quality is definitely more than good enough for all kinds of indie goodness.

To be on topic with you here, yes the Beattie was a god send. Awesome thingy. :) -->>>

Step behind you :) I have already picked up actors, script is ready even with scripting software... Just angry with vignetting on rotating GG, watching myself in your funny adapter video :)... Would like to start shooting on April 05. Hope beattie save me...

http://film.datriware.com - where you find DoF & steadycam project... Not in english at all, but pictures :)))

Oh yeah - http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p844.jpg

It's you. That is a wildly cool looking thing there. I have NO idea how you did it or how it works.

How are you planning on using the Beattie? Static, rotating?

<<<-- Originally posted by Steev Dinkins : Oh yeah - http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p844.jpg

It's you. That is a wildly cool looking thing there. I have NO idea how you did it or how it works.

How are you planning on using the Beattie? Static, rotating? -->>>

Our first idea was to make rotating ground glass. We let made it from 2mm glass 85mm and attached to hard drive... Inside the wildy cool looking thing there :))) Everything was working perfect, but I'm not happy with 24x18 screen, especially with using 70-200 lens. I do not like wasting DoF, I want it all :) So we made some tests with focusing screen of camera. We split it to fresnel and Ground glass and use just the fresnel with our rotating glass. Its cool, but groundglass from camera is much smoother, we have 800 glass and I bet the one from camera is over 1200. So... my friend likes rotating things and prefers rotating Beattie in the cool looking thing, I prefer static Beattie in easy adapter. We will find the way in future :)

Ah. I can't imagine how you'd spin a Beattie screen. Maybe if it was one of the really big ones, however you are the one who made that wildly cool looking thing. :) The large format Beattie screens are freakin expensive. One goof and another $300 down the drain.

Funny, I got this image in my head of your friend who likes to rotate things.

www.holyzoo.com/media/galleries/random_crap/phoneplate.jpeg

:D

<<<-- Originally posted by Steev Dinkins : Ah. I can't imagine how you'd spin a Beattie screen. Maybe if it was one of the really big ones, however you are the one who made that wildly cool looking thing. :) The large format Beattie screens are freakin expensive. One goof and another $300 down the drain.

Funny, I got this image in my head of your friend who likes to rotate things.

www.holyzoo.com/media/galleries/random_crap/phoneplate.jpeg

:D -->>>

Problem with beattie is, that you can rotate it just by center, or vibrate with it. I though the idea of my friend was to buy just fresnel lens and put it close to rotating ground glass... Yeah, the photo you post is appositing...

Dave-
You can oscillate a Beattie (or any other fresnel/GG combo)focusing screen BUT you need to keep the oscillations very very tight. 1 or 2 mm at most. Have you look into the Maxwell Precision Optics focusing screens? They can be order to custom sizes and focal lengths and are reguarded by many pro still photographers to be the brighter and sharper than the Beattie (not that Beattie screens are bad- they are GREAT). I worked with the owner to come up with a custom screen and I couldnt be happier with it. Its going into my medium format/35mm oscillating adapter. FYI they dont have a website but doing a google search should turn up contact info. Fair warning - Bill, the owner, likes to TALK....A LOT. Have a clear idea what all your measurement should be and with his incredible optical knowlege he should be able to help you.

<<<-- Originally posted by Brett Erskine : Dave-
You can oscillate a Beattie (or any other fresnel/GG combo)focusing screen BUT you need to keep the oscillations very very tight. 1 or 2 mm at most. Have you look into the Maxwell Precision Optics focusing screens? They can be order to custom sizes and focal lengths and are reguarded by many pro still photographers to be the brighter and sharper than the Beattie (not that Beattie screens are bad- they are GREAT). I worked with the owner to come up with a custom screen and I couldnt be happier with it. Its going into my medium format/35mm oscillating adapter. FYI they dont have a website but doing a google search should turn up contact info. Fair warning - Bill, the owner, likes to TALK....A LOT. Have a clear idea what all your measurement should be and with his incredible optical knowlege he should be able to help you. -->>>

I was looking for the contact before, I found telephone even address... But... I'm not from America, I'm from Europe, and its quiet difficult to reach something over sea :/

On these pictures you can see, how fresnel lens from focusing screen makes brighter images and distribute light into corners...

http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p850.jpg
http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p849.jpg

Here how we works :)))

http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p851.jpg

Next week I will take photo from NIKONs focusing screen and then Beattie...

Where did you place the fresnel lens in the mix of the camera rig?

I have the opportunity to buy a top condition second hand Beattie Intenscreen for approx $30 US. Is this a good deal?

Also it is for a Nikon F5 and has no grid lines (model 82180) Will this be suitable for a static adaptor? Approximately what size is the intenscreen?

Thanks
Mark

brand new is about $90 US, 25/37mm, works for me.

Brett,
optically speaking, if you oscillate one exactly 1 mm, how much do you think the image will be blurred due to that lateral lens movement?
some background: moving any image carrying optical element perpendicular to the optical axis moves the formed image,as far as I can tell.

I think I'll order a Maxwell screen tomorrow.
-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Brett Erskine : Dave-
You can oscillate a Beattie (or any other fresnel/GG combo)focusing screen BUT you need to keep the oscillations very very tight. 1 or 2 mm at most. Have you look into the Maxwell Precision Optics focusing screens? They can be order to custom sizes and focal lengths and are reguarded by many pro still photographers to be the brighter and sharper than the Beattie (not that Beattie screens are bad- they are GREAT). I worked with the owner to come up with a custom screen and I couldnt be happier with it. Its going into my medium format/35mm oscillating adapter. FYI they dont have a website but doing a google search should turn up contact info. Fair warning - Bill, the owner, likes to TALK....A LOT. Have a clear idea what all your measurement should be and with his incredible optical knowlege he should be able to help you. -->>>

Test screens with Maxwell optics GG...

http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p945.jpg

Dave-
We are using the same screen but your results appear to have far less clarity. Are you moving the GG or is it static in that picture? Is that a copy of a resolution chart or a original?

I now have a Maxwell screen too, tests will follow shortly. By the way, Bill indicated to me that a regular ground glass can be used with no hotspot as well, if the optics are chosen well!

-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Brett Erskine : Dave-
We are using the same screen but your results appear to have far less clarity. Are you moving the GG or is it static in that picture? Is that a copy of a resolution chart or a original? -->>>

Its original I printed on laser printer. GG is static.

"By the way, Bill indicated to me that a regular ground glass can be used with no hotspot as well, if the optics are chosen well"

Yes. A fresnel is at type of lens so yes a regular lens will do the same thing but notice his choice words, "chosen well" - Finding the perfect lens has been proven difficult. From someone that has been there - save yourself a lot of time and just get a real focusing screen.

For a $500 adapter, the $130 focusing screen is a lot of dough. Maybe $35 of glass will help keep costs low. I don't know yet. How much did he sell you the screen for ?

-Les

I have question. With Beatie and Maxwell, which way fressnel faces, action or camera? What happens if you turn it around? Does it make any difference? What is difference? All answers very appreciated.

Radek

In theory you would want the GG side of the focusing screen facing your video cameras lens but in practice I didnt notice any difference in quality one way or another.

The Maxwell screens sell for roughly the same price as the Beattie screens. Call them for their prices.

<<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : I have question. With Beatie and Maxwell, which way fressnel faces, action or camera? What happens if you turn it around? Does it make any difference? What is difference? All answers very appreciated.

Radek -->>>

I tried both direction, and I found if you direct fresnel side to primary lens, you will get less vignetting, but I notice some ghosts on Maxwell, because other side is pretty smooth and works almost as mirror, so I can see bright parts of my camera in it. If I turn it fresnel facing to camera, I will get more vignetting, but no ghosts... I did not take any result charts, this is just my subjective feeling.

Im little bit diaspointed about Maxwell, but I hope its because I did not found the way to use it right yet... :)

Daves,

Just use it the way it produces better picture. You may not need condenser with this lens.

Does ground side look like grit is extremely fine, smooth, a lot more than regular ground glass you've been using?

Radek

Radek-
Its about the same amount of grain as any GG you can make yourself so in both cases it falls just short of being used in a static adapter but people are looking into these screens for use in oscillating adapters in which they work very well.

Daves-
You said your were disapointed in yor Maxwell screen. Can you tell us why and have you done side by side comparisons between the Maxwell and the Beattie? I've played with both but not at the same time so I cant tell you which one is better from experience but I decided to go with the Maxwell because alot of the pro photographers on Photo.Net swear by them and a few even said they preferred the Maxwells. I'd love to hear another opinion though.

Brett: I'm not telling that Maxweel is bad... All I wanted to tell is, that I did not find the way to use it right :))) Till now, I had better results with Nikon GG and condenser. And had no time to continue with tests... Maxwell gives me a lot of vignetting.
I believe I will tell Maxwell is great, not just because it costs me ten times more. What I can tell now is, that maxwell is much brighter than any other GG...