I know I need a new tripod, but I want one, if such a thing exists, that can control a pan to a maximum speed, thereby keeping it smooth.

I can envision a set of gears that keep the pan smooth, but I have no idea if such a thing exists, or what keywords to search on.

Is it available electronically? Mechanically?

Am I dreaming?

I know that a few years ago I saw a LANC controlled tripod head unit that would control pan/tilt as well as the camera control with LANC. I think it was made by SIMA though I am not sure.

Ron Evans

Since this has absolutely nothing to do with HDV I've moved your
thread to our camera support forum.

Thanks. I should have thought of that.

What I am looking for is a new tripod for a Sony HDR-FX1 that has some sort of mechanism to enable a smooth pan.

Expensive but VERY smooth!

The smoothest heads you can ever want to use are geared heads. A couple of examples would be a Worral Head or an Arri Head.

It also has a little bit of a "getting use to" curve. It helps if you are somewhat coordinated.

Click to see one http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail02.asp?productID=619&Cat=48&Cat2=50

RB

Aha! So I wasn't dreaming about it being possible, just about being able to afford it. I knew it sounded like a good idea, I just didn't realize that they would be quite that pricey. I might be willing to go 1/24th of that price, but no more.

I guess I will just have to continue to fix my pans in post if there is nothing more reasonably priced.

Thanks for showing me that. If anyone comes across something more reasable, I would love to see it.

Gear heads take a ton of practice. I remember we used to see who could make a perfect figure 8 while waiting around on set. If you put that much practice into a fluid head, you wouldn't have to fix anything in post! Camera work is a skill that CAN be mastered! Don't depend on your equipment as much as you depend on yourself--get a fluid head and start practicing!

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

I guess it is time to take a trip to B&H and play with some different heads to see what I like. I may have a trip to NYC scheduled before the trip to Greece.

Thanks for the advice.

Steven, have you tried to pan with a jib arm? Whenever I have a wide panning shot, I'll try it with the jib arm but I'll stand out the end and sort of "walk with it.'' Once I've got my jib arm level on the tripod, I can adjust the tension to be as smooth as I want it. Plus, the length of the arm can give you a feel for how level and smooth the shot is.

I think the problem is that my current tripod does not allow me to "adjust the tension to be as smooth as I want it". So a trip to B&H is certainly going to help.

$24K and only 6 months warranty? Damn! That just doesn't feel right...

Steven,

Hello from the other side of the metroplex. A technigue you might wish to experiment with for smooth pans is to grip closer to the tripod head instead of way out at the end of the pan handle which amplifies your movements. I've even heard of some guys using a big rubber band between their hand and the tripod handle. It helps smooth out the start and stop jerkiness.

Again, just something you might want to try while waiting to get the more expensive gear(no pun intended).

regards,

-gb-

It,s a different direction, but maybe this could help
http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=MPH%2D1&cat=VIDEOEQUIP&subcat=CAMERAGEAR&prodClass=MOTPAN&mfg=&search=0&off=
or this one
http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=ITP%2D1&cat=VIDEOEQUIP&subcat=CAMERAGEAR&prodClass=CAMCNTRL&mfg=&search=0&off=

Steven:

I think you will find that the better (=expensive) fluid heads will give you the results you are looking for, coupled with some practice. A head should not inherently feel jerky, it should feel silky smooth, almost invisible.

If it helps, in the "big leagues" camera operators are expected to be able to deliver equally smooth shots with either a fluid head or a geared head, as we switch between them depending on the needs of the shot. I generally prefer to live on the geared head, but I have many pals who opt primarily for the fluid head instead (and as a $$ comparison to that linked Arri head, the industry standard fluid head goes for around $11K, or $7-8K used).

I sincerely appreciate the advice. I think "practice makes perfect" is the solution once I get a decent tripod. The one I have is really not up to the task.

I was just hoping that I could get some resistive feedback from a head so I could push and it would only let me go just so fast.

I really like the idea of the motorized ones. Not too expensive either. But another 3 pounds on top of the camcorder and the tripod might be the straw that breaks the camel's back on the Greece trip. Too much walking up steps for an old guy like me. But maybe if I start working out? Sure. Right.

But any trip where I have a car, like to Hawaii, might be a good time to carry one like that.

I think the ITP-1 is now officially on my wish list.

Here is a real cheap trick that I've used in the tv biz, and it can work surprisingly well for specific situations.

Get a farily heavy rubber band, try different sizes to see what works best for you. Set the beginning of the shot then lock the tilt on the tripod head. Place a loop of the band over the end of the pan handle, then pull slowly on the other end of the rubber band to increase tension and begin the pan.

The trick is to learn how to add and then release the tension on the rubber band. With practice you can do some pretty nice pans with graduated starts and stops, with no undesired bounces from a shaky hand.

This is especially useful if you are doing closeup, copy, or telephoto work, where any slight bobble is magnified and ruins the shot.

I told you it was cheap!

Large rubberband? You mean like 10 inches kind of large? Or little ones like you see in offices?

One of those heavier duty type bands, the kind you might find in at the office in the supply drawer, but it doesn't have to be a giant hard-to-find rubber band, 4" to 6" will probably work just fine.

It's not an exact cheap science, so just try whatever you might find laying around the house first and I think you'll get the idea.

Have fun, and let me know how it works!

Hague have a lot of electronic style panners.

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/pan__tilt_power_head.htm

Have a look, they're actually surprisingly cheap

Owenx

http://spydercam.com/fxwest/rates.shtml

don't know how rich you are, but i look at these and laugh/weep!

$2500 a day's rental!?!?!? plus $750 for the programmer/operator per day!

Well-to-do perhaps. Rich? No way.

I like the little ones, and will probably buy one just for fun. But there is no way I am going to want to carry an additional three pounds or more while hiking around Greece. So the rubberband trick is going to be thoroughly practiced until I get it right.

I'm gonna' agree with the previous advice that a really good head will get you much of the way there... and a lot of practice will get you the rest of the way. I have a Gitzo 1380 and I'd consider that to be a decent mid-range head but I'd have spent more if I'd had the money.

So with my modest investment I've had to evolve my style in various situations. Normally I adjust the pan to about 85-90% stiff and the tilt is either 90-95% stiff or totally locked, depending. Obviously if I have to tilt a bit as I'm panning... or pan quickly... I reduce tension settings.

My technique then gets a little goofy looking compared to normal home-movie makers. I rarely use the end of the pan arm... I once made a long pan arm thinking it would smooth things out. Nope... longer was worse. Then I tried a second pan arm. Zero gain... at least for me. So aside from careful attention and practice how do think I got my pans where I was happy? I grab the head with BOTH hands but position my right hand so that I can still feather tilt with the pan arm while putting pressure on the head. Then I use both hands to twist the head and tweak tilt... I look almost like I'm trying to open a giant pickle jar...

I don't know that I'd put my camera work up against somebody like Charles P... but this technique evolved for me over the last year and I'm finally satisfied with the results I'm getting.

I think what I need to do it put a dozen sticks out in the yard at a equal distance. Practice panning until the amount of frames between each stick appearing in the frame is within a frame or two.

Just keep practicing. Eventually I should be able to get a nice steady hand. That's the goal. We shall see how well I do in Greece after I get back.

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/pan__tilt_power_head.htm

This pan head is smooth enough?
It gives you professional look?
Or just a toy?
I cannot test it before buying.

thx

For a remote head to be truly professional it needs to support truly variable speeds, like a servo zoom on a broadcast camera. This way you can feather your moves. An inexpensive system such as those linked here will deliver abrupt starts and stops, which is as far as I'm concerned not a professional look (unless you are looking to replicate a security camera!).

The most inexpensive such heads I can think of would be found on the Jimmy Jibs--don't know if they offer standalone heads though.

OK, OK, but if i do not want a smooth start and end for a clip, just the smooth movement?
I will crossfade those clips in post production.
I film the nature and made relaxation dvd's.
Such a thing doesn't need anytime a start/stop for pan.
Some clips of my first dvd can be found at
http://www.koviszabolcs.hu/frame.htm
(under "lemezbemutato" button)

It would be good a smooth start/end but for this price it's not possible.
Anyway i'll buy when the movement is very smooth, not jerky.

I got sucked into this and bought the Bescor head that B&H sells for around a hundred bucks... Well it wasn't what I thought it would be... not even close. The reason I bought it was to abandon a camera and have the implication of technology... I wanted an extra shot that clearly wasn't man-made. Well the good news is that it DOES do that... the bad news is that it's a little trick shot only with the instability and occasional vibration.

The other thing is that they claimed a pretty high weight rating, as I remember... and in reality this thing has been relegated to my very smallest cams... since it doesn't even like the load of a DVX.