So, there I was, shooting B Camera for a music video. Got my rig running, getting close ups of the talent. I'd been using it for the last three days. Everything is just grand. Even got tape of Emma Bunton aka Baby Spice on day one. Mark's a hero, not a zero.

During a short break I'm showing the camera to one of the crew and the camera shuts off. Okay, I'll just hit the standby button. Nothing. Push it again, still nothin'. Huh? Did the battery go? I'll get another. Pop that in, nothin'. Shit! What's wrong? How about another battery. Nothin' Turn it off, turn it on..."Hey we gotta roll tape here, can you roll"? Nope, the camera won't power up.

AC Adapter? Turning on and off, pushing buttons... Still nothin'. Let it cool down, maybe something really simple I overlooked. I'll go back to Gaffing and come back later. Sorry, B Camera failure. A Cam has to do it all now.

Later and then the next day, much testing of batteries and various power sources and still the camera won't power up and she won't barf up the tape neither. I didn't drop it, I didn't abuse it. I have been babying my little baby since I got her and she just won't wake up- More "waaaah waaaahing" from Mark. I even checked the internal #2025 battery and that was okay too.

I sent it to Canon earlier today. Better call 'em and let them know it's coming. At least it's under warranty and Chris From ZGC is going to help ride herd on that by checking in with Canon and helping it along. Thanks!

I'll keep y'all posted. Anyone else have their XL2 just die?

Master fuse has blown. I'll bet you anything that's what it is. Something has tripped the breaker that protects the camera's electronics, but unfortunately the only way it can be reset is to send it back to Canon Service. No doubt they will give it a thorough check-up as well, I think that's standard procedure. Keep us advised. Chris will take care of you -- she's Superwoman.

Master fuse it is. I had mine blow, replaced, and blow again. Wound up replacing the camera. The people at Zotz were very good in dealing with Canon.

Ahh, but what would cause the master fuse to blow? I was running with the 16x manual lens, servo zooming for framing, but manually focusing and the FU-1000 finder with the lens light on. At the time the camera died it wasn't even recording. I was putting it on standby a lot the few days before hand.

I had put about twelve to fifteen 63 minute tapes through the camera. Including additional time with the camera on, waiting for the set on various shoots, or being on standby, so maybe I had this thing on for about 25-40 hours before the fuse blew, if that's what it was.

We'll see...

Just a wild hunch, but it might be related to the B&W EVF. Be sure to send it in with the camera. Just to cover your bases you should send the lens with it as well. If you coordinate with Chris at ZGC, I'm sure they can turn this around fairly quickly. Canon USA might even let you have a loaner in the interim (they won't offer, but if you ask for it, they'll probably come through). Keep us advised,

Mark,

Your description of what happened was EXACTLY like what happened to me. I had run about 12 tapes through the camera. I put it in standby, moved to a different location, and when I went to turn it on... nothing.

I also shoot with the 16x manual, and the FU-1000. I sent in the body, and Canon diagnosed a problem with the lens mount. They said it wasn't covered, so I paid for a repair, and they sent the camera back. Less than an hour's use on the returned camera, the fuse blew again.

I sent the camera back. At this point, Bryan at Zotz went to bat, and I got a replacement camera.

So far, no more difficulties, but as I am tied up editing a documentary, I don't have more than an hour or two on the new cam.

Thanks guys!

I just got off the phone with Canon, they haven't looked at it yet. I don't have anything scheduled, so I'm good, plus it's only a day for shipping, since I'm near NJ. They're short staffed, so if they don't get it today, they'll get to it tomorrow. Pray for me boys, pray for me.

I sent them the whole rig as I was using it, 16x manual lens, FU-1000, battery, plus I sent the charger and AC adapter.

Would a battery running at 8.3V pop the fuse? Fully charged batteries run at 8+ Volts.

Mark,
As I live in California, I went through the west coast repair shop. In my talks with the top rep, he admitted that they didn't know why it was blowing. Perhaps the east coast reps will have more insight.

Best of luck to you,

Richard

Thanks Richard. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have to rent a back up every time I go out. Sheesh.

Hey guys, I remember reading someplace that if you try to change lens or viewfinder without powering down the camcorder it could blow the fuse. Also, it can happen if you try to connect it to a deck via firewire and the deck is turned on it can also pop a fuse. Same with a computer. If you connect it to a deck or to your camcorder make sure all equipment is turned off before connecting the firewire. Bob

The deal with the lens is that the contacts are crossed when you're in the process of mounting or removing one... so it's important that the camera is turned off during this procedure.

All well and good. But none of that describes the problem I encountered.

THe camera was working - I was shooting a performance - I put the camera in standby - I moved to another location - The camera would not "power up". End of story

The second time the fuse blew, it was actually while I was reading this board. The camera had been "repaired" and sent back. There was a question about wether or not the battery indicator could be seen in the UV-1000 viewfinder. I powered up the camera, looked in the viewfinder, powerd it down. Answered the question on the board. Thought to make sure, went to power it up again... and nothing.

No lens changing, no viewfinder changin, no computer connections. Just massive power failure.

As I said, the Canon techs in California don't know why it blew.

Thanks for the info, good to know. Shut it off before doing anything!

The weird thing is that it was on, but not recording. It was sitting on the tripod and my friend just touched it and it went down. I jokingly chided him about it.

I'm proud of myself for only being upset about it for about ten minutes while I tried to rescusitate it. Then I had to jump back to gaffing.

Canon has it now and they'll check her out.

Has anyone had this happen who did not have the bw viewfinder attached?

David,
An interesting question. Since there are a total of two of us who have had this happen, it would take a few more of these to draw any more concrete conclusions.

Thanks for the advice and tips here guys. I am getting ready to go on a long tour and now I am going to make sure I have a back up camera ready at all times. I've only got 10 hours on my camera but this stuff scares the heck out of me when I might miss footage I can never replace this spring.

Brian

Mark,
Here's a question for you, how were you powering your unit when it failed? The first time my fuse blew, it was running with the dual battery packs on back. The second time, it just had a regular Canon battery in the well.

R

I was using a regular old 945 Battery in the regular battery slot. I am scraping pennies together to get Anton Bauers. I got the XL1 to A/B adapter on ebay for a song, I just have to get the bricks and a Titan 70 Charger.

So, I got the camera back from Canon a couple of days ago. It was the master fuse as Chris and others had diagnosed.

John, from Canon, told me to be sure to power down before plugging, or unplugging the B&W viewfinder. He said that doing this earlier may not have popped the fuse, but weakened it. I don't recall plugging in the viewfinder while the camera was on, but I may have when I was initially trying it out. The whole master fuse thing still makes me a bit paranoid.

The one thing that freaked me out when I opened my Porta Brace, was that they did a really lousy job of packing. I don't mean to be a whiner, but my heart stopped when I opened the bag and saw everything strewn about in the main compartment. I had very carefuly put lens wraps on everything and put in bubble wrap, etc so that nothing moved for the trip out, but they didn't do any of that. They just tossed everything in. Thankfully, nothing was broken.

Rant over. I am grateful, it was a free fix, after all and they were even kind enough to overnight the tape stuck inside, so I could get it to the director. That was great. Canon get high marks for service, but low marks for packing.

And Chris From ZGC also had a hand in somewhere, there was an XL2 brochure in one of the pockets of the bag, with her card stapled to it. She works in mysterious ways.

All is well, now I just need more DP gigs...

Thanks for the report, Mark! Interesting stuff there.

You're welcome, Chris. It's an honor to be here and do whatever I can for the team.

I am afraid, very afraid. Master Fuses!? Bad Packaging!? My paranoia is taking over.

Thankfully this hasn't happened to me yet. I couldn't imagine sending mine off and letting Canon whoop up on it and send it back all bruised and banged up from the trip back.

Glad to hear yours made the trip back in good condition, Mark. I will have to watch myself, I am bad at having the camera on as I hook up my firewire cable. Im almost afraid to try to turn my camera on now.

Very informative topic.

WOW... having a camera down for this is scary !

Surly there should be a way to field replace this fuse, or a retrofit so that the fuse could be changed out in the field.

In my opinion the Master Fuse concept is a good thing -- it keeps your camera from self-destructing -- but having only two service centers in the U.S. who can reset the camera, is not such a good thing. Hopefully it doesn't happen that often.

Just to chime in with my experience, (as I seem to be the first on the board to experience the fuse problem). I know for a fact that when it blew the first time, I was not connecting or disconnecting the BW viewfinder. I know for a fact that when it blew after the first repair, it was not while connecting or disconnecting the viewfinder.

When it blew the first time, and I sent it back to canon (in california), they said there was a problem with the lens mount. Indicating they believed I had stripped it. I explained that was impossible, there was no problem with the mount, that the camera was working, I was shooting, put it in standby, and the camera failed while powering up - that was why there was a tape stuck inside. They insisted the problem lay in the mount, and required a replacement of the entire ccd block. This cost me 600 dollars, as the 'damage' was due to my 'negligence' in their assesment, and thereby voided my warranty. As the camera was no longer in my hands, I had no choice but to pay to get it back in working condition.

Canon did not overnight the tape inside.

Packaging and shipment was excellent.

The camera failed (As I mentioned previously) a second time a day after I received it. I sent it back to canon and they replaced the mother board. They ran it and cycled it for several hours, and indicated they were "pretty sure the problem was solved". And shipped it back.

Throughout this ordeal, Brian at Zotz was working the phones and the reps. Ultimately, through his efforts, the camera was replaced.

I am now shooting with a new XL2. Spent four hours shooting hang gliders this weekend, with the FU-1000 and 16x manual lens. Cycling through standby and powering up and down. No problems.

Again, the big lesson I learned is that it is worth it to go through the dealers on this board, and that this board is , itself, an incredibly valuable asset to the DV communitiy.

Props to Chris and the sponsors.

Thanks, Richard...

I'm a people person and a firm believer in the folks who sponsor this site. Brian and Tom at Zotz, Cody and Rush and the guys at EVS. The Zellans at ZGC who are a great couple in their own right but are even better with Christine B. on their staff. I don't allow just any dealer to come on board here. They've got to be people-oriented with excellent customer service track records. I've been accused of being somewhat zealous with regard to "where to buy" topics... those are pointed to our sponsors and then quickly shut down... but there's a reason for that; these folks are making an honest living and they'll look out for you when things go wrong. And that's what it's all about.

Thanks Chris, this forum has been invaluable and was one of the places where I came for info when making my decision on which camera to buy. Oddly, the choice of where to buy came on my own and ZGC seemed like a good choice. I'm very happy with them. I didn't realize that there were sponsors for the site, until later.

The Master Fuse is good, but it does kinda suck that it's a factory fix and that no one really knows why it happens. It would be nice if it was a user replaceable part. If it keeps happening, then send it in.

Richard's experience is a bit disturbing. This whole thing makes me just a bit wary and if I'm shooting a project, I'd want to have a camera on standby, just in case.

I'm praying that it never happens again.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Sasahara : Thanks Richard's experience is a bit disturbing. This whole thing makes me just a bit wary and if I'm shooting a project, I'd want to have a camera on standby, just in case.

I'm praying that it never happens again. -->>>

I never thought of this as a possibility until I read this thread, but now I am happy that I have been using the built in feature of the XL2 to stop tape instead of it putting the camera into standby!

It is a great feature, and now seems like an even greater feature if it could help avoid this problem :-)

Anthony,

There is not enough data to suggest that putting the camera in standby (Or taking it off) is the sole cause of the fuse blowing. It blew under those conditions the first time for me, but not the second. Clearly, a fuse 'blowing' is the result of some sort of power surge or overload. But Canon couldn't isolate the problem. Is it related to a weakness in the motherboard? Is it isolated to the FU-1000 viewfinder power draw? Was it simply isolated to my camera and the other one listed on this board? Two failures (documented on this board) out of how many total Xl2s sold?

Hard to say much, beyond I had a problem and so did Mark.

Hello,

It sounds like a design flaw that affects too small a group for Canon to invest in a cure.

That is too bad if true :-(

I wouldn't leap to that conclusion. The problem might be with the pair of FU-1000 viewfinders, that overdrew when powered up. Both Mark and I were using them.

As I said, drawing a particular conclusion would be a mistake.

Very True!

Yeah, at this point it's pretty hard to really pin down exactly what the cause is. All we have are my camera and Richard's camera and our anecdotal/coincedental evidence. It seems that different things lead to the main fuse popping, but we don't really know.

No one else has replied with a similar experience. If it were a bigger problem we would have heard from other users by now, I should think.

I am getting ready to log a tape today on my computer, have the XL2 plugged into Firewire and AC power, at my desktop station. I move the cam, and re-adjust the Firewire, then start with some software setups, ignoring the camera while she runs...But the camera, it... just...is...DEAD!!! Worst, yet, there's that happy, telltale smell of fried electronics wafting over the back.
You know that sinking feeling you get when you know that something's really messed up...Well I've got it.
I found this thread in the forum, and this master fuse sounds like the problem. I am using the standard setup (20X lens, etc) , and am not using the B+W viewfinder. I think maybe this has something to do with the firewire, as I did not power down when I plugged/unplugged 1394. That's the only consistency I see with the other two problems.
So now, I guess I've gotta send it back to Canon...I'm leary in sending it to LA if they'lre gonna find an excuse to blame me/charge me for it; is NJ better? Also, in shipping it, I'd rather use my original XL2 packing...box, etc, and perhaps overwrap. Or should I use something else?
Worst thing is, this is in the middle of a new project, tape is stuck etc. I'm like 'ohmygod, ohmygod, ohmygod...", and I'm not anywhere close to being a teenager.
I got my gear from Zotz, and I'll call Brian tomorrow. Maybe he can calm me down.

Bill, it's still under warranty so you won't get charged. Brian will take good care of you,

Yeah, I think that when you are plugging or unplugging firewire, lens, battery, or viewfinder, power off the camera. Audio and video ins/outs can be plugged and unplugged w/no problem.

My camera didn't have a fried smell though.


Send to Canon, you are under warranty, so you shouldn't have any problems.

EMPATHY.... sending it out to you buddy...

Brian at Zotz will do you right... absolutely. He's a stand up guy in a bent world.

Send it to Canon in NJ, just because it's closer to you.

There's always the possiblility that Canon will claim "User Error" or "abuse"... at which point you are screwed.

No 'fried smell' when mine blew either.

Sooner sent, sooner back. Good luck

Hello All,

This problem isn't just an isolated case, and it is quite severe IMHO. If it should crop up for me, I would consider it quite severe indeed. I am about to travel across the US to do a job with an XL1 and my newly acquired XL2, if it fails I will be more than upset!

If I knew of this problem sooner, I would have purchased a different camera!

If Canon doesn't do something to correct this problem, I feel that it could be fodder for a class action suite.

Even if Canon fixes the camera for free, and pays for shipping both ways, downtime is way more costly! This should be field serviceable, or the cause should be routed out and all of our cameras recalled and fixed (loaners provided for free).

This is horrible!

ANthony,
The latest failure, does not seem related to mine or Marks. So it's hard to say what 'problem' needs to be fixed. My new Xl2 hasn't had the problem. Maybe they have fixed whatever element it was... I don't know.

Hi,

I thought the problem was restricted to the XL2 ??

This seems to be a correctable problem. All of the cases I have read about, Canon only had a guess to what caused the fuse to blow. A fuse shouldn't blow unless it is protecting the camera from a severe problem. If it were a severe problem that blew the fuse, Canon would know the cause... get it?

So they have to shore up the circuitry so that the fuse ONLY blows when actually protecting the camera!!

That is my point, but I hear what you are saying!

Thanks!

this is scary, Xl2s blowing up fuses and nobody has a clue why! Maybe connecting and disconnecting firewire without turning the XL2 is the culprit but i never had that problem with other cameras. It is even more dissapointing when you consider that the XL2 is a high end miniDV camera. <ost low end cams don't have this problem. I think canon has to be informed about this problem. If they claim that not turning your camera off when connecting/disconnecting firewire is a user abuse, i think that's 100% BS! IOt spells weak electronic design as far as i am concerned. I do hope my unit will be more cooperative.

Brian has calmed me down quite a bit, and I am returning the camera today. Brian does feel that it is related to the DV cable, and that plugging and unplugging in a "hot" situation is not recommended.

Although I've had the camera just over a month, I have been doing this kind of "hot" switch in the past with no affect. In fact, Page 101 of the user manual titled:

Connecting to a Computer Using a DV (IEEE1394) Cable

States:

"If the computer freezes while you have connected the camcorder, disconnect and reconnect the DV cable. If the problem persists disconnect the interface cable, turn off camcorder and computer, turn camcorder and computer back on and reconnect them."

According to this, it looks like Canon is OK with the hot switch as well...Me, I'm going to turn my camera off in the future (when it comes back) whenever plugging something to it.

It's probably common knowledge around here, but I would get real familiar with the wiring schematics of wherever your editing station is located. Connecting two units together that are drawing bi-polar AC current can result in some wicked damage!

Yeah, I think that when you are plugging or unplugging firewire, lens, battery, or viewfinder, power off the camera. Audio and video ins/outs can be plugged and unplugged w/no problem.

You sure? I use a shotgun mic that is powered through phantom power and even though my camera appears to be fine right now, I do remember that soundman on my last gig that kept pluging and unpluging the XLR cable without turning the phantom power off when I had my back turned (even though I told him not to do so). I'm afraid now. If this issue is power related, pluging and unpluging a powered XLR cable carelessly might have weaken the master fuse. Hope not, or that soundman will be hearing it from me! ;)

It's probably common knowledge around here, but I would get real familiar with the wiring schematics of wherever your editing station is located. Connecting two units together that are drawing bi-polar AC current can result in some wicked damage!

The only way to use AC on the Xlxx is through the AC Converter/Power Supply, which isolates the camera from AC, so that wouldn't be it.

And if anyone dares to tell us that plugging a firewire cable into the camera will cause a fuse to blow... and that is OK... They are crazy to think that anyone would buy that.

This is a serious problem, and Canon has other problems as well such as a peculiar tape transport/recording system that can only semi reliably share tapes with other Canon cameras, bending lines recorded to tape due to some focusing or sharpness aberration, etc.

I liked Canons because I always had Canon and Nikon 35mm cameras and I liked the lenses and camera quality. I can get some great images from the XL series and I like the odd look of the camera. For a small Prosumer camera, it looks more professional than the smaller competitive cameras. For my business, looks do count. I use hi-end cameras on some shoots, but if the budget is tight, I go MiniDV, but the client still expects Hollywood. The look of the XL is slightly deceptive and the camera looks more expensive than it is.

But all of that is mute if the camera fails in the field!

I have had record inconsistencies, straight lines of buildings come out bent horribly and other annoyances. I think Canon needs to fix our rigs.

I think that my next inexpensive camera will by DVCAM and I will not buy another Canon product in the future unless Canon addresses these issues.

After this next shoot, I am going to put these cameras up for sale :-(

It's a prosumer camera and it's MiniDV. It is what it is.

Like I said before if this was a serious problem, then we would have heard from other people by now, this is a pretty popular forum for XL2 people. You are number three.

Since getting my camera back from Canon in March, I've shot a bunch of jobs with my camera. I've put it on standby and plugged & unplugged the audio and video ports with no ill effects so far. I do feel a twinge of anxiety sometimes, but I keep shooting.

Yes it is troubling and frustrating, but as I said: it is what it is. Please let me know if you are selling your XL2, I'd like to have a back up.

Hi Mark,

Yes, I agree, it is what it is. It is a low priced camera, but I expect more from a company like Canon. I am a consumer advocate, so a critical eye is in my nature.

I think that I will sell the XL1 and the XL2 as a package after this shoot and replace them with a Sony DVCAM unit. I'll have to see how I feel after this shoot.

The XL2 hasn't even got 5 hours on it, and the XL1 may have 20 hours. I am a "clean and care fanatic", so the XL1 is like new as well.

What do you think they are worth??

Thanks for the reply !

Not sure about the XL1, but the XL2 being brand new, should fetch a decent price. You may want to separate the cameras, though.

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the reply.

I'll share my thoughts after this shoot :-)

My repaired XL2 came back today. Thanks very much to Canon who expedited the repair. When I first called in, I talked to a receiving tech who told me they very busy, and maybe I should call back in a couple days. Lead time, she says, is usually a couple weeks!!!

They called me however the next day, and this technician understood the sense of urgency, and asked me a couple questions about my setup, and hinted that they'd make repair a priority.

That they did...I got the Camera back in my hands less than 36 hours after his call.