Hey everyone, I'm a little torn on which camera to upgrade to next. We currently have a Sony HVR-A1U but I'm looking to step our game up.

90% of our filming is in a controlled environment, 4-point lighting system, filming instructional hair styling videos. But, we're going to be doing a lot more "on the street" type filming, etc I want a higher quality look both for our intructional DVD's and the new filming we're going to do.

I've been looking at the Sony HVR-Z7U and the Panasonic AG-HMC150 almost all day today.

After about 15 hours or researching and reading I'm wanting to hear some other opinons. What does everyone here think? What would you get if you wanted to spend around $5,000?

Hi Ricky

As a Sony Z7 user I can say it is a great camera.

The learning curve for you will be lessened as you have already been working with Sony gear (similar menus etc).

The CF recording feature on the Z7 is great, yes the 150 does to SD, but the compression is a lot harder to edit than HDV. Especially if you have already been editing HDV, your editing workflow won't change much, except for no more capture times!

The lens on the Z7 is great with the amount of manual control you get being a real help.

If you have any particular questions I can try to answer them, but in general the Z7 is great.

The only downside is that its autofocus is not as good as the Z1 (the camera I moved from). However, the manual lens negates much of this as it is very easy to manually focus, and in controlled situations manual would be recommended anyway.

Cheers

Andrew

Either camera you mentioned will be a big step up from the A1U and both are solid choices in this price range, so the best thing to do (if you can) is try some sample shooting with each one to see how you like them. Some specific differences to consider are zoom range, light sensitivity, weight, recording options and formats, editing workflow, how you like the controls and displays, etc.

I was impressed with the HMC150 at a recent association meeting but see advantages to the Sony cameras also, especially if you still have a need for tape-based recording. We had a long discussion at out meeting about tapeless recording and the pluses and minuses of same, but there is no "best" recording solution for every situation.

Sticking with Sony would make it easier to keep the A1U as a backup camera, but if you're looking forward that may not be a significant concern.

Having owned a Z7 I can highly recommend it, great camera and good pictures and the CF unit is superb. It also shoot to tape and can do HDV and DVcam at the same time.

How about a used Sony EX1?

If you bump that figure up to 6k (or perhaps buy used), I've got to think an EX1, now that it's possible to record economically onto SDHC cards, has to be a top choice in that price range, for most purposes - it's hard not to like 1/2" chips for that kind of money!

I spent quite awhile agonizing over a similar decision recently and ended up with an EX1. I really liked many of the Z7 features, but you just can't get away from the advantages of 1/2" chips, higher data rate and much more sophisticated menu system. I am very happy with the results.

Have also had a Z1 for 4 years and it's served me well (and will continue to do so). The Z5 and Z7 are terrific upgrades from the Z1, but the EX1 is in a league apart IMO. If you do want to stay with the Z series however, ask yourself if you will really ever use the removable lens. The Z5 is a very nice camera otherwise, although you get slightly more manual control with the Z7 calibrated focus ring. But the Z7 iris wheel still spins infinitely (unlike the EX1 which is calibrated - and a great feature).

I really didn't solidify my choice until I spent a little quality time playing with each of these models at B&H. If possible, try to do this. Some things which may not be so obvious from spec sheets and online discussions will suddenly become crystal clear when you get your hands on the real cameras.

Canon 5DmkII
Yes, it can be a PITA, but nothing else will get the results it can, out of the box.

Otherwise, what Boyd said, the EX1 is a fantastic tool.

My friend has been shooting "Bizarre Foods" on Travel Channel with the Z7. he really digs it. Your big question is why would you want to stick with tape and with a sucky codec like HDV? If you do, the Z7 is it, my friend is a broadcast snob and he is really digging the Z7 lens options and handling as compared to most prosumer cameras.

If you want to move out of the dark ages of tape and HDV, the HMC150 is sweet but I prefer P2, the codec looks better, whether DVCPRO HD or AVCINTRA 100. Jeez if you are considering the Z7, spend a little more and get a real camera like the HPX300. You might want to take a look Production Diary - Panasonic AG-HPX300 (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/production_diary_hpx300_brockett.html)

Dan

my friend is a broadcast snob and he is really digging the Z7 lens options

This gets back to my point above. It is very cool to have interchangeable lenses, but realize they cost thousands of dollars each. When I was considering the z7 I looked at the Sony wide zoom which is an alternate lens they make for about $2,500. At that price I suspect it's OK but not exceptional as the better glass costs quite a bit more.

You can also use Canon or Nikon lenses, but these are really only useful for extreme telephoto shots (like wildlife photography) because of the 1/3" chips which magnify everything considerably.

So you need to think about whether you're likely to spend thousands of dollars more on lenses and if not then the z5 may make more sense.

3 Canon 7ds.

I recently sold my A1U on Ebay for $1800. It was used very little and was in perfect condition. I used the proceeds toward the purchase of an HMC150.

I like the 150 a lot, and SD recording is truly the way to go. However, if I was able to spend $5000, I would find a way to spend $6000 and get the EX1. IMO it is the standard by which all other cameras are measured. Both the EX1 and HMC150 will hold value real well too.

I would definately not consider anything HDV at this point.

3 Canon 7ds.

He'd still need a lens, a decent microphone, a viewfinder, another lens, a matte-box, filters and one of those funky shoulder mounts.

I wonder how long the HMC150 will hold value when/if Canon introduces an AVCHD camera, assuming it is somewhat akin to what the XH-A1 was to HDV when it was introduced. The FX1 was to HDV essentially what the HMC150 is to AVCHD, and while it was still a very viable camera after the XH-A1 was introduced (heck, it still is a good camera), resale value of the FX1 took a significant hit.

You know, if Sony were to essentially take the guts of their Z5, and re-engineer it to offer a choice of recording, using either AVCHD or XDCAM (like EX1 or JVC's new cams) encoding, to SDHC cards (I'd actually prefer CF though), they could have one heck of a big seller.

He'd still need a lens, a decent microphone, a viewfinder, another lens, a matte-box, filters and one of those funky shoulder mounts.

two 7Ds, with an 18-85 IS EF-S lens each, would fit in the $5k range. So would a couple Nikon 50mm f1.4s. And a Zoom H4.

He's going to need external audio for any camera he buys, that's got nothing to do with the camera budget. Same for viewfinder, mattebox and filters, not needed JUST because it is a DSLR. As for the shoulder mounts... the camera isn't exactly a brick, and works perfectly fine without them. A $40 monopod goes a long way.

Bottom line... you end up with a camera that can almost see in the dark, puts out beautiful shallow DOF, and most importantly for street shooting, is almost invisible to passers by. Especially considering you can get TWO CAMERAS for the price of one.

take the guts of their Z5, and re-engineer it to offer a choice of recording, using either AVCHD

Good point Robert, I like it. I see they've done something similar in recognising the Z5's good points by selling it in some markets as the DVCAM PD175.

But back to Ricky's first post. If you put a Z7 alongside an HMC150 you'll immediately see, feel, smell and hear why the Z7 costs a lot more than the HMC. It has a build quality that sets it apart, and even if you never plan to buy another lens I'd say the ergonomics and handling rate it as the one to go for.

Of course others here have raised valid points as to why you should spread your wings and look further afield, but if I look at your two choices I see the Z7 as a second generation HDV - a hugely refined and improved Z1, taking HDV to new heights and getting its low light performance back on top.

I look at the HMC and see the early DVX100 - a camera crying out for the improvements brought about by the rapidly introduced A and then the B models.

tom.

I look at the HMC and see the early DVX100 - a camera crying out for the improvements brought about by the rapidly introduced A and then the B models.

I do have a desire to go tapeless, but, as much as I'm tempted, I'm not about to jump on an HMC150 anytime soon. As attractive a first "serious" AVCHD camera offering as the HMC150 appears to be, I've got to think it likely we may see some very competitive offerings in the not-to-distant future (my eye is on Canon). It's not like I feel my XH-A1 is inadequate for the time being either. I've got to say, I was also really put off by the HMC150 price increase (that sort of crap cools my heels in a hurry). I am intrigued by the HMC40, especially at the price point at which it is being introduced. We'll see how well it is received, when some real shooters actually get their hands on it and put it to the acid test (of real world usage).

You know, if Sony were to essentially take the guts of their Z5, and re-engineer it to offer a choice of recording, using either AVCHD or XDCAM (like EX1 or JVC's new cams) encoding, to SDHC cards (I'd actually prefer CF though), they could have one heck of a big seller.

That sounds a lot like the EX1 to me. It gives you a choice of either HDV, XDCAM and XDCAM HQ formats and can use SDHC cards with an inexpensive 3rd party adaptor. Or was your point more related to the price than the feature set?

The EX1 only offers MPEG-2 encoding (of various flavors though). Personally, I'd find it quite attractive to have the choice of MPEG-2 (at higher than HDV bitrates) as well as the (bitwise) more efficient choice of AVC encoding when smaller file size is desired. I also look at that choice favorably, as a bridge of sorts, while CPU power and software closes the gap in ease of editing between MPEG-2 and AVC. My thoughts there were also focused more at 3-1/3" chip camera category. It would also be nice to see some real alternatives to the EX1, for 3-1/2" chip cameras, utilizing any reasonably comparable codec, image quality wise (and also with reasonably comparable affordability to the EX1).

A good point Robert - we could do with more competition in the ½" chipset category, as at the moment choosing this chip size effectively lands you with only one brochure and the price chosen by Sony obviously reflects this lack of competition.

If 1"/3 chips are your menu heading then you're spoilt for choice, and everyone is after your dollar. This competition brings a vast range of models, from the JVC700 to the HMC151.

tom.

Excellent stuff everyone. I really like what I see with the EX1 and may possibly get it. I already have an great audio setup, tripod, lighting, so I really feel I just need to step up my video game and the EX1 seems it will do that.

I was recommended the HMC-150 also by a few stores but would definitely buy the EX1 over that any day.

I shoot with the EX1 quite a bit. It is extremely sharp and decent in low light. A nice camera to be sure. But it has the worst ergonomics of any camera on the market, the menus are confusing if you come from the Panasonic/JVC/Canon world and the XDCAM EX codec is not my favorite. And you must shoot with awareness of the limitations of a CMOS imager and rolling shutter.

A good camera though, the lens and LCD are the best in it's class.

Dan

But it has the worst ergonomics of any camera on the market

I've read this in more than one place, so I was prepared for the worst when I got the EX1. It is not very well balanced and pushes the limits for a "handycam" in terms of weight, but that's not a big deal for me. I never liked my Z1 as a handheld either. Once you put it on a tripod, it's a non-issue.

I think it's great that Sony put 1/2" chips into a package about the same size as my Z1, and it can easily be carried on an airplane. I don't know why other companies haven't come up with any competition, so I have to conclude they feel it wouldn't be profitable. They have certainly had plenty of time since the EX1's introduction to respond.

Other ergonomic issues, such as the placement of buttons, don't strike me as any worse than the other Sony camcorders I've owned. The focus and iris rings are terrific. Menu's don't bother me either (coming from a Sony background) and in fact the Direct Menu function is great - you use the joystick to select and change any parameter shown on the screen without digging into the menus.

It is certainly not a camera for everybody, but I'm a satisfied customer myself.

I was recommended the HMC-150 also by a few stores but would definitely buy the EX1 over that any day.

Quite so, but then you could have two 150s for the price of an EX1 + SxS. Boyd make a good point that other manufacturers have left Sony with this open door to our ½'' hearts.