I'm finishing up a family movie right now and I'm going to be doing quite a bit of voiceovers. Here's what I'm planning to do right now with my current equiptment:

Take a AT lav mic that's plugged into my camcorder to record my voiceovers and then capture the voiceover to Premiere. Considering the amound of voiceovers I want to do, that's a big pain in the butt.

Here's what I'd like to do, but I don't know exactly what to buy: I'd like to have a good flattering mic plugged into my computer and sitting on my desktop, so that I can record directly to the timeline in Vegas. I know it's possible because this is a feature of Vegas and I've tried it with a crappy mic that was way too quiet. The only problem is I don't know how to find a good mic for my computer that's good enough for doing voiceovers.

Can anybody recommend one?

While the mic is a big consideration, don't forget a good mic pre. Chances are, the sound card either has a very poor preamp, or none at all.
What's your budget?
For family voiceovers, you can probably feel comfortable with a lesser expensive mic, and plan on spending additional time in post getting it to sound great, or you can spend more money on the mic, and end up spending less time in post.
Unfortunately, the front end (mic/pre) are the most critical and of course, most expensive parts of the whole process.
An inexpensive shotgun is a great option, the AT lav probably isn't bad, it's more the room than anything. You can plug the AT lav into your computer as well, and it will sound the same as it does through the cam, so if you've already got that mic, why not use it?
Check out the #3 webstream on voiceover boxes at http://www.vasst.com/dvdproducts/nht-sound.htm and you'll get an idea of how to make a poorer sounding mic sound better.

Douglas, it turned out to be my computer that was the problem. For some reason my tower has a crappy sound card or something. I just tried plugging the lav into my tower with both an XLR to phone adapter & a Beachtek adapter and both were way too quiet. When I tried to boost the level in Vegas, it was way too noisy. At first I was thinking I needed a preamp, but then I realized that it worked fine with my camcorder.

Anyway to make a long story short I tried the lav mic with the XLR to phone adapter on my laptop and it worked fine. So it must just be the sound card on my tower that's the problem.

AFAIK, every standard computer has a crappy sound card, whether it's used for monitoring or recording. This is one of the most important investments you can make, IMO. It's your "broadcast monitor" to the audio world.

You might try recording directly to your hard disk using your camcorder/firewire connection. I know Vegas video capture can do it, but I'm not sure if you can record directly to the Vegas timeline.

Also don't forget most sound cards mic input is a stereo mini plug which is not stereo but mono and a 5 v signal ( kinda like phatom)
smitty

Just a guess, but are you trying to put a mic level signal into
a line level port on the sound card? The symptoms you described (very weak signal from the mic, boosting gain in Vegas boosts noise) sounds like a mistake on the input level. I use a mixer/preamp to get a solid line level output and then bring the
L/R into an adapter cable with two female XLR to 1 stereo mini-jack connector that plugs into my soundcard. Never had a problem with this setup. The mic direct into the computer gives me exactly the problem you describe.

Joseph

Well, I plugged it into the jack with the little picture of a microphone above it, so I think it's meant to be a mic jack ;)

When I did the same thing on my laptop, the mic worked fine.

<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : AFAIK, every standard computer has a crappy sound card, whether it's used for monitoring or recording. This is one of the most important investments you can make, IMO. It's your "broadcast monitor" to the audio world. -->>>

Perhaps one of the few exceptions is the analog input and A/D converter in my Mac G4 Titanium laptop. I'm glad I waited a few weeks some years back, because, after comparing it to my Digidesign Digi 002, the 800MHz G4 does an equivalent job on voice recording. I've even recorded PA board feeds during a singer/songwriter open mic night and felt really good about the audio.

Regards,

Ty

You must have a very different powerbook than I do, or Philip Hodgetts, or Rich Harrington, or Chris Meyer. All of us have had bad experiences with Apple soundcards. I now use an Indigo from Echo as my Apple soundcard, it's a 24/96 Cardbus card, with 2 channels in, 2 channels out, and 8 virtual channels for busing.
I wish indeed, my Apple card was any good.

Ty,

<<<Perhaps one of the few exceptions is the analog input and A/D converter in my Mac G4 Titanium laptop. I'm glad I waited a few weeks some years back, because, after comparing it to my Digidesign Digi 002, the 800MHz G4 does an equivalent job on voice recording. I've even recorded PA board feeds during a singer/songwriter open mic night and felt really good about the audio.>>>

How are you connecting this? I would surmise not through the stereo minijack!

I have a 1.5GHz Aluminum and a 667 MHz Titanium and have been using a Griffin iMic to avoid passing audio through a headphone jack (especially since the jack on the TiBook has an intermittent channel!)...of course at the end of the day, it's still going through a 1/8" TRS jack, not my idea of a "professional" audio connector. I guess a "real" breakout box would solve that.

Lately I have been using an HHB CDR830 for audio recording, operating it just like the 1/4" reel-to-reels I used to use back in the day. It gives me a standard CD if I just want to play it back in any normal audio system, plus I can extract AIFF/WAV files in the computer (using iTunes) for editing in Final Cut Pro (or MP3 if not using in FCP). Very convenient.

But I'd be curious what your secret to success is on board feeds and VOs; the Mac is more likely to be out and about with me at any given time.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Butler : Ty,

<<<Perhaps one of the few exceptions is the analog input and A/D converter in my Mac G4 Titanium laptop. I'm glad I waited a few weeks some years back, because, after comparing it to my Digidesign Digi 002, the 800MHz G4 does an equivalent job on voice recording. I've even recorded PA board feeds during a singer/songwriter open mic night and felt really good about the audio.>>>

How are you connecting this? I would surmise not through the stereo minijack!

++Through the unbalanced mini jack!

I have a 1.5GHz Aluminum and a 667 MHz Titanium and have been using a Griffin iMic to avoid passing audio through a headphone jack (especially since the jack on the TiBook has an intermittent channel!)...of course at the end of the day, it's still going through 1/8" TRS jack, not my idea of a "professional" audio connector. I guess a "real" breakout box would solve that.

++Don't like the iMIC. It makes a buzz, even when fed at -10 line level. I spoke to them about it. There are PCMCIA cards (which fit in the left side slot on my powerbook with audio i/Os) but I haven't needed to try that.

Lately I have been using an HHB CDR830 for audio recording, operating it just like the 1/4" reel-to-reels I used to use back in the day. It gives me a standard CD if I just want to play it back in any normal audio system, plus I can extract AIFF/WAV files in the computer (using iTunes) for editing in Final Cut Pro (or MP3 if not using in FCP). Very convenient.

++Right. I have the older HHB, 3 rack spaces, upside down CD transport. I like it a lot.

But I'd be curious what your secret to success is on board feeds and VOs; the Mac is more likely to be out and about with me at any given time. -->>>

++As above, 1/8" Mac mini jack fed by stereo 1/8" TRS male and female RCA splitter cable from Female XLR to male RCA cables from my Sound Devices 442 mixer.

I was convinced after comparing tracks recorded simultaneously to my digi 002 and to the analog jack on the G4. Surprised me!

Regards,

Ty Ford

Wow! Can't get much simpler! Of course, that's a pretty jazzy mixer, it better sound good! :-) A little out of my budget right now, gotta stick with the old workhorse Mackie or Behringer for now. (Of course, that means back to needing AC power)

Right now I only have Soundedit 16...and it has to run in Classic mode! Pretty soon I have to think about getting Pro Tools. And I won't need a Digi box for this Mac?

cheers
m

Mike,

Check your own laptop to be certain the converters and all are up to it. I may have lucked out.

I'm running OSX 10.3.4 and for the test used SPARK XL to record. There is no Pro Tools Free for OSX, so you'll have to find something when you leave OS 9. That's the only version of PT I know of that doesn't require some sort of Digi hardware.

The Mbox is good for simple tasks. At $499 USD list, I think it's a bargain. Preamps and converters are certainly up to the task of V/O work and then some.

Sound Devices does make a single channel preamp:
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/mp1master.htm

and, I forgot! via firewire...Sound Devices has the USB Pre... two preamps with a USB interface with LOTS of good features...
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/usbpremaster.htm

Please take a hard look at it as well. It has most of the features of the MixPre, runs on batteries, and doesn't require Pro Tools.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Tony, I'm guessing you already tried this, but did you check the sound card's software volume control? On a Windows machine, it's very important to make sure this is set up right.

If you double-click the speaker icon in the system tray, then select "Options->Properties" you can adjust the "Recording" volumes. Make sure the check mark is on the correct input ("Microphone" in your case), and adjust the input level accordingly. The "Options->Advanced Controls" menu may give you more control over mic boost or whatever other options your card may have. Mac computers may have similar capabilities.

In defense of your average PC sound card, I recorded two "just-for-fun" studio CD projects using a card that cost about $30 (Creative Ensoniq PCI). Yes, you could hear a slight noise level on a good stereo system (which probably came from my cheap mixer), but it was definitely acceptable for what the project required.

If you do decide that you need a real preamp, I've been quite happy with the ART TubeMP line. I use the TPS as a preamp for my MOTU interface now, and it sounds great.

Yeah, I know PT free is OS 9 only, won't even run in classic mode. I have long since ditched OS 9 (since my previous PowerBook) and am running Panther 10.3.7...so I WILL need some hardware if I want to run PT.

That USB mixer looks pretty cool; being powered by USB eliminates both batteries and AC power. OK, it doesn't require PT (nor do my present mixers) but PT requires at least some kind of hardware like the MBox (which my guitar instructor uses with his iMac and has successfully created multitrack recordings like Les Paul used to do on his big old Ampexes)...so if I want to eschew hang-on boxes and go with a pure software solution, now I'm looking at Logic.

In this day and age of virtual everything, I gotta believe that this little P'book has the horses under the hood to get things done without external tagalongs (other than a mixer-preamp, of course) and that we can have a rackfull of audio signal processing devices at our fingertips all through software. Maybe I'm believing the advertising a little too much, but this is what I have done with Final Cut Pro, which has been my hemi-powered powerplant to replace a half-ton of VTR-to-VTR editing gear and do it much better.

Or am I being too"Logic"al?

Tony, I just finished narration a 35 minute video. I was in the same boat as you. I ended up getting a Rode mic and a Presonus preamp. That, with the wires, pot filter, stand and all coat about $360.00 US from bh photo. You cannot believe how really beautiful it sounds. All the others were right, good audio makes such a difference. Oh, I also use Vages 5. Bob

This post might be a bit of a tangent, but when doing the voiceover directly into your computer, does the environment you are in make a big difference in the end result? And if it matters a lot, what is the ideal type of room? I mean, if my computer is in a small room, will it sound like I'm in a closet?

I've just started trying to do this sort of thing and I'm an audio rookie, so I don't have a great ear for what a more professional sound should really sound like.

Even worse, you'll sound like you're in a small room with a computer turned on.

Regards,

Ty Ford

It's incredible how much racket gets recorded inadvertently. The computer is the first of several potential culprits. Throw in HVAC--anything with a fan or motor, really. Add in traffic outside, trains passing by, even some light fixtures, you've got quite a soup. For a test, just try recording some "dead air," that is, record what you think is dead silence in the room, with the mic facing the way it normally would and the recording gain at your usual setting. You'll hear it all on playback.

One quick'n'dirty trick when it's hard to get away from the ambient sounds, try recording in a car in a garage*, just you and the mic inside the cabin, run the mic cable out of the car to your equipment. You laugh? It's a heck of an "isolation booth." If it sounds too much like a dead room, just remember that it's easy to add reverberancy but pretty much impossible to remove it. You won't need much anyway for a VO.


*This is assuming that it's quiet out there in the garage, turn off everything that could make noise.

With that much glass, you'll get the sound it it being slapped as well. At least with any car I know.

Regards,

Ty Ford

I have a walk in closet full of hanging clothes. I think it would make a great place to record VOs. Lots of sound deadening material hanging all around to kill reflections. I was going to record there once but didn't for some reason. Maybe I'll give it a try sometime. It should work great.

Good luck.

Dennis

First take an acoustics 101 course in which you'll learn that closets (and clothes in a closet) suck up a disproportionate amount of HF, which will suck the live out of your audio. OTOH, better in a closet than in the bathroom.

If closets and automobiles really worked, there wouldn't be recording studios ;)

Regards,

Ty Ford

I appreciate this banter as it is answered many of my unasked questions. My Mac is in a large bedroom with carpeting and drapes, but also some hard surfaces. I was wondering about using my closet, but I think you answered that.

The Mac is pretty quiet, but I think I'll record some "silence" and see what I get. I might as well try the closet while I'm at it.

Again, thanks for all your thoughts.

>>>OTOH, better in a closet than in the bathroom.
...unless you are 4 guys who wanna sing doo-wop, then the boys' room is perfect! :-)


For those of us whose budget indicates a studio, that is obviously the correct solution. The tools are all in place and ready, the rooms are equipped with anechoic wall treatments, bass traps, etc., just walk in and start recording. And they'll know what to do in post-processing to make the most of your content.

As for cars, it's like I said: quick n dirty. Not top shelf. But free of humming refrigerators, whirring computer fans, buzzing fluorescents, barking dogs, etc. You can foley that stuff back in later if you want. hee hee :-) Actually, in the back seat of a Jeep Cherokee with a cardioid dynamic on a short baby boom (Yeah, yeah, not a studio mic, OK?), the slapback was imperceptible...breath and lip and saliva noises being more of an issue to manage. Heck, that's a topic that deserves a whole discussion itself.

Of course, the purpose of the piece will determine how much of an investment we make in the audio production. A local radio spot is one thing, a movie trailer is quite another. In some cases you need to hire trained and experienced VO talent, a small doco or vnr may not afford that.

Hey, totally off topic (but the real reaon why I wanted to post right now)...

I saw Duran Duran performing live on TV, and noticed their keyboardist Nick Rhodes had a 17" PB nestled amongst his Alesis/Roland/Kurzweil synths. What's he running on that thing?

Well, my problem has been solved. I'm just going to do the voiceovers on my laptop. The XLR to phone adapter worked perfectly and the audio is great, recorded directly to the timeline. The only problem is the ambient noise from sitting so close to the computer, so I'll just take my 25' XLR cable and move on back from my computer.

Does anyone know of any good filters or tricks for getting rid of that quiet ambient noise from computers? I know Premiere had some neat filters in it, but does Vegas?

Tony, the only better filter than the 25' XLR cable is a 50' XLR cable. Into another room. :-)

Ha ha, that's probably true...

Once upon a time, in a small market far, far away (Springfield, MA--as far from Los Angeles as one can get, both literally and otherwise), I shot and edited local commercials for a small production company. I came up with one for a golf complex that revolved around a ball being whacked all around the facilities (mini golf, driving range etc); we painted a series of faces on balls and did a location shoot as well as chromakeyed balls on sticks--it was quite a little production.

I ended up doing the voice of the ball (through a pitch shifter) and because I was working alone, I needed to record right from the edit room which was full of noisy rackmounted components. I ended up building a soundblanket tent around the edit console so I could work the controls and watch the monitor to sync up the read. Of course, while I was in the middle of it my boss brought a prospective corporate client down to show him the edit room; there I was buried under a makeshift tent hollering "yippee!! whee!! oh no!" etc. in a cartoon voice. The client probably thought I was huffing under there.

Fortunately, the ad one a regional award (gee, wonder why I don't have that hanging on my wall?) so we all lived happily ever after.

Funny story and good idea. I should probably do something similar in my office.

One slightly peripheral note/endorsement: I bought the Tivoli PAL battery powered speaker (http://www.tivoliaudio.com/product.php?productid=157&cat=&page=) a few years ago and have found a multitude of uses for it; when recording voiceovers in my closet (as I now learn, clipping off the high frequencies in the process!) I put the PAL in there as a talkback speaker from my edit setup.

Hilarious, Charles! Springfield does have one attraction, a huge liquor store just off I-91 where I can get the stuff much cheaper than Connecticut. :-)

Ah yes, Tivoli! I remember when Mr. Kloss was building the old KLH model 21 table radios, I could barely keep them in stock. A good idea just keeps living on. (of course, they didn't come with a NiMH battery in those days) If it weren't for all those Roland MA12C's (radio not included) I've got kicking around here and there (also not battery-powered), I'd probably need to pick up a PAL.

A word on tents, blankets and closets... I had a shoot in a company boardroom and the HVAC unit sat there droning away and threatening to take over my audio track, and of course it was controlled by some computer in the bowels of the building so I couldn't turn it off (frankly I think those things are programmed to run forever, even if they are just blowing room-temperature air). When people came in, they asked where to put their coats, and I said "I'll take it" and heaped them on the grilles of the blasted unit (hoping it would pop a thermal limiter or circuit breaker). Clothing as sound-control devices, gotta love it.