I have a Canon XH-A1 and would love to go tapeless. I haven't really researched it all that hard, and would love to hear about my options.

I am in the same boat. I have been looking at this one. Does anyone have any pros ans cons on the Focus Enhancements FS-4?

best bet is the sony flash recorder. see the thread below

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/116520-awesome-news-canon-users.html

Canon | FireStore FSC-HD60 60GB DTE Recorder for XL | 0884V781 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=434414&is=REG)

My XH A1 work flow is : MacBookPro 2.4 , FCS2 (student edition - its cheaper) and FSC-60 DTE , I love it. QT files drop in to FCS2 and Im ready to work. I can have a project out in no time.

I have an A1 and an FSC-60. As you can see from the specs in the BH link above, the FSC is specific to the Canon XH and A1 cameras. It is capable of all of the frame rates, file types etc. I also use the FSC with my HC1 and DVC 30, I just can't get the tapeless option with those two cameras.
I am curious what the advantages of the Sony CF recorder are. I believe it is close to the same size and weight. You have to buy a couple of 32 gig cards to get the capacity of the FSC-60. One advantage of the CF is no moving parts but the Firestore has been built to handle movement and shock. Some FSC owners have replaced the 60 gig drive with a larger drive so even if the HD fails for whatever reason you can replace it with a laptop drive.
BTW although the FS4 apparently will work with the A1 some features will not be available. FSC is the best choice for an A1.

Jake - I don't have the Canon unit, but I do use a Focus hard drive with my Sony FX7. For the most part I give the Focus (FS-4 HD Pro in my case) a thumbs up. I do wildlife work and so going tapeless saves me a lot of tape which would otherwise be filming the animal doing nothing. What I really like is the cache or pre-record feature which allows me to hit the record feature and capture the previous 6-10 seconds (when the animal suddenly did something interesting). Now for the downside. Keep the units away from your microphone because they do make a noise (after all they are a spinning hard drive). Secondly, and I don't know if this applies to the Canon, the firewire cable use to disconnect from the 4-pin firewire port on my Sony at the worse times. I've learned the hardway to wrap the wire around the camcorder handle a few times to lessen the change of it coming out of the port. That's my 2-cents worth.

Sorry but I am confused. The Product name specifically says it's for the XL series (not XH). The B&H specs don't mention the A1. Just some person's review.

Can anyone describe what features work on this special model of the FS4 for Canon that don't work on the stock FS4?

Does the FSC variant work on the A1 with all the features or does it act like the FS4?

The tapeless operation of the A1 / FSC combination is one feature that works with the FSC and not the FS4. Also I believe the Canon's 30p and 24p are unique to the FSC.

If you don't record to tape, but to CF or hard disk instead, can you record in a less compressed format on the XH A1? Can you record 4:2:2 instead of 4:1:1 for instance?

Not if you are using the FireWire output to record from.

Is there another output from the XH A1 that you could output less compressed footage from?

I don't believe there is an uncompressed out on the A1...that is actually what the XHG1 is for with it's hd-sdi output. I might be wrong, but I think that is the only difference between the A1 and G1.

Using a FSC or firestore will save a bunch of time with the capturing and I've thought about going that route with my HV20. Are you interested in saving move time or more so the wear on your A1's heads from capturing? Another alternative could be getting an HV20 or HV30 to be your capture device. Then you would have a B camera as well and for cheaper than getting a portable harddrive.

Best,
Andy

Thanks Andy

I'm not worried about saving wear and tear on the camcorder just want to increase capture quality. I think you're right about the G1 having HD-SDI out but the A1 not, beter check my A1's manual.

Do you think there's much difference between an image captured at 4:1:1 and one captured at 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4 etc?

I've never seen a comparison before.

There is quite a bit of difference between 411, 422, and 444 because it represents how much color information is recorded. 422 and 444 give a whole lot of flexibility in color correction because there is so much more information to work with. There are most differences but you'd probably be better off googling that info since I'm not an expert on it.

However, I don't know if the average person would notice the difference unless the images of each were displayed next to each other.

Also, by the way, the A1 in HDV recording only records 4:2:0. The DV mode will yield 4:1:1. I don't know which one is really better though.

I heard with shooting HDV its good to get the color and look of your film right in the camera because once you get it into editing you won't have much flexibility with the color because of the HDV codec not holding up well. You can transcode it to a 4:2:2 codec like DVCPROhd or Prores, but it won't be the same as recording 4:2:2 to begin with.

Best,
Andy

Thanks again Andy

Didn't realise the A1 records 4:1:0 in HDV mode.

I also didn't realise that it's better to get the video look you want in camera, especially in HDV. I shot my latest film in HDV with neutral settings to do the adjustments in post. Nevermind, too late now. I'll know for my next film.

Sorry Stuart, I thought I had posted another reply but maybe I only saw the preview.

I know that some folks have recorded from the component out on their XH-A1 but I couldn't tell you what hardware was used or how good the quality is.

I've used the component out of my XH-A1 and converted it to HD-SDI via an AJA converter then recorded on a Convergent Design Flash XDR. The picture quality (compression) is superior to the HDV you can get off the tape. I believe the signal is 4:2:2 at the component output as well.

Thanks for the info Michael and Colin. It would be brilliant if I could shoot my next film in 4:2:2 using my XH A1 :) It sounds complicated though.

I'm afraid I don't even know what an AJA converter or an XDR are.

Can you record in HD-SDI to a laptop hard disk using the component out?

Component is an analog signal while HD-SDI is digital uncompressed. I don't know of any laptop that has HD-SDI in. I'm not sure if the cost of getting an AJA coverter would be worth it or if you'd be better off looking for a G1. In any case being able to record HD-SDI will require a capture device or desktop with a capture card with HD-SDI.

Also, I'm not sure if the improvement in color correction ability is worth it unless you're going to go to go to th large screen. Even then it may not be. Read this thread:

The Blackout: Just Wrapped Feature with XLH1 - Page 4 - The Digital Video Information Network (http://www.dvinfo.net//conf/showthread.php?t=103232&page=4)

post #50. Robert talks about his experience working with HD-SDI footage and HDV footage from an XL H1. It appears that HDV does carry a good amount of color info. Of course 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4 will give better results, but properly exposed and shot HDV can look increadible too.

Just my thoughts.

I have an A1 and an FSC-60. As you can see from the specs in the BH link above, the FSC is specific to the Canon XH and A1 cameras. It is capable of all of the frame rates, file types etc. I also use the FSC with my HC1 and DVC 30, I just can't get the tapeless option with those two cameras.
I am curious what the advantages of the Sony CF recorder are. I believe it is close to the same size and weight. You have to buy a couple of 32 gig cards to get the capacity of the FSC-60. One advantage of the CF is no moving parts but the Firestore has been built to handle movement and shock. Some FSC owners have replaced the 60 gig drive with a larger drive so even if the HD fails for whatever reason you can replace it with a laptop drive.
BTW although the FS4 apparently will work with the A1 some features will not be available. FSC is the best choice for an A1.

Note as of Jan 5
My mistake. My DVC 30 does in fact work "Tapeless" with the FSC.

Thanks Garrett. That's a really interesting thread by Robert Sanders. Perhaps miniDV is better after all. It certainly must be more portable and easier for developing shots I imagine. Having to move the extra cables and kit around as the camera moves could be tricky.

Hey Michael when you recordered of off your A1 with the aja converter into flash xdr what setting did you use on it. And do you know what frame rate it comes out of the compenant input on A1. Is it 60i or is it 24f when you set it to 24f or is it only that when you record to tape. And how much better was the footage recording that way i plan on recording something soon and am thinking of going this route like you did so curious what you thought.

I've been using an FS-4HD (w/ 120gb hard drive) with my A1 for over a year and everything is still working flawlessly. I would guess they recommend the newer version so they can make more $$.

XH-A1->component->hd/sdi.. that seems a little bit much in my opinion. When you get to that point, the only thing you are improving, the sensor color resolution, is such a small part of the total picture quality. You're still shooting through the stock lens and ultimately at the mercy of your lighting rig.

I have been reading the threads and was thinking about getting the MRC1K but some people have connection issues with it. The FS-H200 also takes CF but only accepts one card where the MRC1K takes 2.

The other options are a FS-CV (too expensive for me and do not need all the metadata features), FS-5 or FS-4 (has a HD to worry about and not sure of the failure rate)

Mostly taping sport events and concerts that can run over 2 hours. Want something that is dependable and not having that many moving parts to worry about.

Have narrowed it down to the MRC1K or FS-4 unless the price of the FS-CV comes down a lot. Can anyone help put my mind at ease on which direction I should go?

Jon

I have been reading the threads and was thinking about getting the MRC1K but some people have connection issues with it. The FS-H200 also takes CF but only accepts one card where the MRC1K takes 2.

The other options are a FS-CV (too expensive for me and do not need all the metadata features), FS-5 or FS-4 (has a HD to worry about and not sure of the failure rate)

Mostly taping sport events and concerts that can run over 2 hours. Want something that is dependable and not having that many moving parts to worry about.

Have narrowed it down to the MRC1K or FS-4 unless the price of the FS-CV comes down a lot. Can anyone help put my mind at ease on which direction I should go?

Jon......Hi Jon. Since you have a Canon XH-A1, I would suggest you track down a used FireStore FS-C (The *C* designation being for Canon Cameras). This unit should go for around $900.00 to $1,000.00 US on the used Ebay market. This is a good choice since it will do both HDV and DV, plus it will capture the Canon HDV 24 F format as well as HDV 1080i (59.94 Hz). The FS-C will also record in SD & HD Quicktime formats. You may not even need HDV 24 F since you're shooting sport and concert events with your XH A1. The cheapest solution would be to head in that direction. Whatever you do don't bother paying for any new Firestore unless you need the metadata features, since these units are quite pricey IMHO. What is your post situation ? Are you doing any editing to the footage you capture, or are you dumping straight to DVD ?

Mark

Hi Jon,
If you don't need to be mobile then just use a laptop or small PC to capture, it's much cheeper and would give more storage space.
I cover Ice skating all the time and I now capture to a small PC I built just for capturing direct from firewire. 10 hr days are the norm and I dont need to wory about storage capacity.
I also use it for any dance show where Im using a camera in a fixed location, its more reliable than just Tape and saves on captureing time later.
Obviously if you need to be mobile then just ignore all of the above :) cheers
john

I also capture to laptop with my XHA1 via Firewire, and works great. But what if I wanted to capture to laptop with my HV40, which has no Firewire port?

Jeff

Hi--Reading this thread with considerable interest. I'm using XHA1 and XLH1, and wish to capture directly to my laptop, as well as to tape (for safety/backup). I would be using this mainly in a helicopter, doing aerial work.

My question is, would the vibration of the helicopter possibly "upset" the hard drive on my laptop.

Thank you,
Len

An addendum to my earlier question....

I'm able to record to my laptop with Sony Vegas Pro, via firewire, but on the audio, I get a screeching sound. This is not an immediate concern, as when I shoot the aerial videos, I do not record audio. Just trying to figure out what that might be. Doesn't sound like feedback. The sound is more like that of a train braking on the railroad tracks.

The audio level on the camera (I tried it with the Canon HV20) is set at "normal" for regular taped video.

Now, the remaining test is to see if the vibration of the helicopter will cause the laptop any problems. I know I'll have to turn off the "vibration sensor" on the laptop (Toshiba Satellite), as it is pretty sensitive, and likely to shut the hard drive down with even the slightest motion.

Len

i have a few questions for you all...i tried doing a search but that didn't really turn up what i was looking for and i didn't want to highjack any of the other threads dealing with the xha1...anyways, i just bought an xha1 and would like to go tapeless in the future but also like the fact that tapes are a cheap way to archive footage...FYI, i use the newest version of snow leopard and the new final cut studio 3

1.) what tapeless solution would you recommend for the xha1 and why?

2.) is there any way that i could record to the tapeless recorder/hard drive/etc AND a minidv tape at the same time? if so, how?

3.) lastly, i record wildlife and actually use about 10% tops of what i record...so you can imagine i have tons of tapes that i don't need/wasted space...if i used a tapeless solution, after i imported that (useable footage) into final cut/ added it to my timeline/etc, could i export that back to tape with the same quality that it was recorded in, or would i sacrifice a lot of quality?

thanks in advance
matt

Hey Matt... check out this thread. I just ordered a Lenovo netbook for less expensive dte recording than a Focus unit. Should be here any day. The Express 34 slot is the thing you HAVE to make sure you have. Will let you know once I test this out. Hope this helps.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/tapeless-video-recording-solutions/144308-my-experience-using-netbook-dte.html

I dont want to be a show pooper, but I stopped using my laptop for recording live video since I blew my XL1s Main board, some kind of glitch ocurred on the laptop's firewire that killed my cam. Have to say I'm alway very carefull while conecting anything to FW cause I've heared of electricity disasters. Repaired cost more than the cam itself $1,800.00. And it was a favor, Ufff. Since then I got me a FS-CV, a bit expensive but can't be any happier. I just post a pic today here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/focus-enhancements-firestore/472544-a1-fs-cv-setup-pics-included-opinions-please.html