Audio guy here, making headway in video, although occasionally i feel like a serious chump.

Your help is appreciated.

2 years ago I shot some great footage with an older, cheaper JVC miniDV camera.
Imported it into FCP3, edited it, and then exported it to a miniDV tape using a DVC deck at school. I know it was working great, because I then recorded straight from the deck to VHS, and it came out great.

I now have a GL2 camera, which I love (at least when the light is good), and wanted to reimport it to do some audio cleanup... only - no audio. Additionally, the tape seems to play at about 95% speed - everything is slightly slower than normal.

Is this because I edited on a DVC deck? What's the deal here?

Thanks - Scot

What is a DVC deck? Do you mean JVC? If so, that should make no difference at all assuming both the deck and your camera are mechanically in alignment.

Any chance you recorded to the #3 & 4 audio channels instead of #1 & 2?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=249562&is=REG&si=feat#goto_itemInfo

DVCAM / DVCPRO is what I mean.

The machine I was using, like the one linked, was able to play and record both miniDV and DVCAM/DVCPRO.

Just for clarification, DVCam and DVCPro and different formats and seldom found in a recorder on the same deck.

Now then, it is possible like the last person mentioned, you may have recorded the audio to CHs 3&4 rather than 1&2. You will have to find a deck with 4 channels to check that out.

Also note there are some real issues with some applications being able to pull audio from Ch3&4 in DV format. Premiere has some issues with this especially with certain cameras. You can sort of cheat the system if you use analog outputs rather than the firewire. Take the analog output for video and Channels 3&4 and run them into a DV Camera, deck or Canopus ADVC100 (or similar) that can convert analog to DV Firewire. Feed that into your editing computer. Watch for analog audio delays. Should work.

Easiest (in a way) solution is to get the same deck type you used originally. What format is the tape? Should be written right on it.

Is it DVCPro or DVCam?

For DVCPro, look for a Panasonic deck. For DVCam, look for a Sony deck. I'll try to help more if I can.

Sean McHenry

Thanks Sean for your response.

Tape: basic SONY miniDV tape, 60min
Camera: ultra cheap JVC miniDV camcorder (low end 2001)
Imported into FCP 3/G4
Exported to basic SONY miniDV tape
Using deck supporting miniDV play/record; DVCAM play/record and DVCPRO playback only.

I *thought* that I was just recording in miniDV format, but I may have switched formats accidentally. Like I said, this was a while back, before I really understood much about video.

RE: Audio channels 3/4
Sounds possible, but it doesn't explain the slightly slow playback. I'd guess it looks like it's playing at about 90-95% speed. What would explain that?

THANK YOU GUYS.

Now then, Sony has two formats on their DV decks. There is DV, like everyone else has, and then there is DVCam. In DVCam, the tape speed is about 1/3 faster than DV. If you recorded the tape as DVCam (you can accidentally do this) and play it back in a DV only deck, you may well experience this. Try to find another Sony deck like the DSR-11 or DSR-25. It handles both formats and will automatically adjust to the correct type on playback.

Both formats use the same tape shell. That's how the mixup happens. DVCam tape is higher quality and combined with the faster tape speed, makes less dropouts and better video. Yor average DV tape of 60 minutes will last 40 in DVCam mode.

Other than that, could be plain old mechanical failure. Could be the capstans are running slow for some reason and the tape is actually playing slowly. I doubt that as there is error checking and the picture would be odd I would think, or not play at all. Normally one would get a "servo" error if this was happening.

Look for a buddy with a DVCam deck.

Sean

That's just gotta be it, following "the simplest explanation is usually the best" rule.

thanks man,
scot

I use a Sony GVD-1000 miniDV deck. Recently I was capturing on Final Cut Pro, when I got to the end of one tape. I put the next in, and it appeared that there was nothing on the tape... just blue screen. It appears that it is not picking up the time code off the tape. It does, however, show how many minutes are left on the tape (63,62,61,...47,46...etc,) as I play and fast forward through the tape. I put the tape in my camcorder, and it played fine... tried another tape in the deck, same problem. Any ideas?

Thanks!

could be the tracking head is off

Can i use a cheaper 1 CCD camera as a playback deck to keep the wear and tear down on my gl2. will video recorded on the gl2 capture to the computer with the same quality if played with a single CCD Camera? Is there a cheaper (better) way?

Hi Chris

this is a good way to save wear and tear on your better camera..

the smaller camera, as long as it has a firewire out will be fine for acquiring your footage on your PC.

The number of CDD's plays no part in the way the camera outputs your footage, only on the way it is recorded in the first place.

Your footage will be of the same quality as if you linked up the GL2.

this is the cheapest way..

cheers
G

One suggestion is if you get a cheap camera for playback make sure that it outputs 16-bit audio. I learned this the hard way. Some of the low end Panasonics capture in 16-bit but will only playback in 12-bit making the audio sound like crap once it is dropped on your NLE timeline.

Regards,

Mark

I use my old Canon ZR25 as a playback deck for GL2 shot tapes all the time. Works great. Old ZRs (10, 20, 25) often sell for $200 or less on eBay these days.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Williams : make sure that it outputs 16-bit audio. Some of the low end Panasonics capture in 16-bit but will only playback in 12-bit making the audio sound like crap once it is dropped on your NLE timeline.
Mark -->>>

Even over Firewire for the capture? Wow

I got a "cheap" Sony to use as a deck. There are cheaper cameras around, but this Sony has great night vision, better then some of the 3-chippers I have. Just another tool in the arsenal...

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Williams : One suggestion is if you get a cheap camera for playback make sure that it outputs 16-bit audio. I learned this the hard way. Some of the low end Panasonics capture in 16-bit but will only playback in 12-bit making the audio sound like crap once it is dropped on your NLE timeline.

Regards,

Mark -->>>

I've never heard of this before. How many cheap Panasonic cams do this? I capture footage shot on my DVC80 with my Panny DV53 (probably one of their cheapest; I bought it new for $300) and get normal 16 bit audio. Of course, the DV53 also records at 16 bit as well...

Actually I'm wondering if my Sony does it now. Not to sound too dumb, but how can you find this out?

If you are running Windows, just right-click the file and choose "Properties," then the "Summary" tab (at least in XP). Or you can import the file into your NLE, where you should be able to access Properties for it.

I have run into a situation where my cheaper camera cannot play back tapes made on high-end equipment. My Panasonic DVX100A seems to be able to play back anything though. I'm now thinking about buying a deck.

I use a Canon ZR40 myself.

Would a cheaper camera, being used as a deck, transfer multiple audio tracks as well at the time code? The reason I ask is because I'm interested in getting a Canon ZR80 to use as a deck for my new XL2.

Also, I would just like to say what a great forum this is. Its been great source of information already.

I will be shooting on Super 8 and 16mm in the near future, and I was curious about what kind of tape I should transfer to. They are all the same price, but would I need THAT camera to load a particular tape in my computer for editing.

MiniDV
Beta SP
DVCAM

Also...how would I go about getting it into my computer. Do I use a tape deck or a camera? What brand and model would you reccomend? There is no sound on the video, as I am going to sync that in post, so I don't need to worry about drop outs.

Try not to break the bank!

Thanks for the help,

Shane

If you haven't bought yet I would recommend a tape deck, since
it is far better to work with tapes from different camera's and is
built to take some abusing as you look around and capture tapes.

Beta SP is an anlog signal right? So I would not go with that. There
is no real difference between MiniDV and DVCAM except that
DVCAM is more expensive and a bit more reliable (tape wise).
The signal on it is exactly the same.

I am using an XL1s and need a deck for playback. Do you have a preference or a deck to avoid?

I like the Sony DSR-11. Small, not to pricey, NTSC or PAL, mini or full size DV or DVCAM. Good little unit.

I've received good service from a Sonu DHR-1000 and a Sony GV-D300. Many people looking for a low cost solution with the bonus of providing a small, cheap backup camcorder) use a ZR-series (or other) camcorder .

The DSR-11 is a great deck. If you can't afford it, I have a GV-D1000 (similar to teh GV-D300), which are just basically consumer VCRs for miniDV, with the added bonus of an LCD screen. I've used it for a few months now, it's been really helpful in many situations.

However, if you can afford the DSR-11 and don't need portability - get it.

Dennis

<<<-- Originally posted by Don Palomaki : I've received good service from a Sonu DHR-1000 and a Sony GV-D300. Many people looking for a low cost solution with the bonus of providing a small, cheap backup camcorder) use a ZR-series (or other) camcorder . -->>>

I love the ZR canon camcorders for recording and playing back mini-dv from. Although don't lose the remote control because you need it for recording!

I have heard that the Sony camcorders all play back DV-CAM signals that have been recorded on mini-dv, whereas the ZR series does not, is this true?

If you get a cheap camcorder to use as a deck be sure it has 16-bit audio playback. Some don't.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Williams : If you get a cheap camcorder to use as a deck be sure it has 16-bit audio playback. Some don't. -->>>

Mark, what happens if it doesn't have 16-bit playback and only has 12-bit playback? (I think this is the case with my Canon ZR60, used as a deck for footage captured on the DVX100A.)

Will the NLE not be able to recognize that the audio on the source tape is actually 16-bit quality?

Thanks.
Krishna

Krishna,

Your ZR 60 does have 16 bit playback.

Some models of the JVC DV decks are the cheapest available, but many people report problems with them. It's ok if it won't cost much to refund it.

JVC has combo mini-DV/SVHS which are ok. The SVHS deck part doesn't work very well since it gets really confusing what is routed where. A seperate VHS/SVHS deck would be a better option.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alessandro Machi : ... I have heard that the Sony camcorders all play back DV-CAM signals that have been recorded on mini-dv, whereas the ZR series does not, is this true? -->>>

It is true that sony DV camcorders playback DV-CAM recorded tapes. I don't know if there are any other brands that do this as well. I know that JVC and Canon won't.

Krishna,

If your NLE preference is set to use 16-bit 48000 audio and you try to use 12-bit it will sound all distorted. I learned this the hard way a couple of months ago and had to redo some of the audio.

Regards,

Mark

i like my Sony GDV1000 with the built in screen. I also carry it around and use it to demo presentations to potential Corp clients (REALLY handy for corporate) as there is no need for them to leave their office when i want to show off some work :)

This is the reply I gave to a similar question on 11.27.04:



Despite some really heavy knocks elsewhere on the JVC BR-DV-3000U, I have used one since last spring (200 hours on the drum) and it has performed flawlessly for me in every tough task I have given it. I use it daily. It is portable, PAL/NTSC switchable, 12v field ready, back-up programmable, small in size, big in features and totally professional. I use it with a Mac Powerbook G4, with a gig of ram, FCP and several cameras.
I cannot say enough.

If I understood correctly, the JVC deck playsback DV-CAM but WILL NOT record DV-CAM. Is this true?

Yes, you are quite correct. The BR-DV 3000 only records in the mini-DV format...but, the ability to import and otherwise use DV-CAM tapes provides somewhat broader opportunities in the pro realm. And, I shoot in this format (one of several), as well.
Also, as I have a moment to comment, there definitely have been those whose experiences are not as laudable as my own...but, I believe that many of the issues with the earlier units (apparently, I have a later version...or I'm exceptionally lucky), have been addressed.
I still think that it's a great unit for the money with many professional features that the dual VHS-Mini-DV units don't have. And, who in this business doesn't already own several-to-many VHS/S-VHS decks for the occasional quick client copy? Better to invest in dual-layer DVD recorders that are really the same price and are, (for the next couple of years, anyway), the way to produce digital copies.
Can there truly be a comparision between the dinosaur VHS and DVD's?

<<<-- Originally posted by Krishna Narayanamurti : <<<-- Originally posted by Mark Williams : If you get a cheap camcorder to use as a deck be sure it has 16-bit audio playback. Some don't. -->>>

Mark, what happens if it doesn't have 16-bit playback and only has 12-bit playback? (I think this is the case with my Canon ZR60, used as a deck for footage captured on the DVX100A.)

Will the NLE not be able to recognize that the audio on the source tape is actually 16-bit quality?

Thanks.
Krishna -->>>

The way VHS works is most VCR's won't record in the four hour mode (known as LP), but ALL VCR's will play it back. I'm wondering if this same formula would apply to camcorders that don't record 16 bit audio, perhaps they will play it back if the tape has been already recorded in another camcorder at the 16 bit setting?

Hey guys--I have a DVX100A and want to purchase a dv deck. Everyone seems to like the Sony DSR11, so I'm leaning to it. My only concern is if I have a Panasonic camera, should I stick with Panasonic for my deck? I know there are issues with different oils on heads and tape, and you never want to "cross streams" or use different tape stocks due to the oils gumming up. I only use Panny MQ tapes in my camera. If I use these tapes in the deck, will I be ok? Thanks!

Peter

P.S. Does anyone have experience with a Panny deck they like, just for comparison? Thanks!

Peter

All I can add is that as far as I understand it, is that decks should
be much more tolerable of head alignment issues etc. etc. They
are built to read as much different tapes as possible.

So I'd have to say it should be no problem, but then again, you
never know in the "real world", of course.

Hopefully someone else has some more hard answers for you.

THanks Rob. Haven't bought anything yet, but leaning towards the Sony deck.

Peter

Anyone know of a good case for the Sony GV-D1000 MiniDV Deck? Now that I have invested $1000 for the deck, I thought it would be nice to have a protective case for it!

I need to get my Sony DV Walkman repaired and I was looking for some suggestions for relatively quick but dependable service. I'd like to find a place with a very good reputation. Who do you guys use?

Thanks for the suggestions.

Steve

Sony factory service in Atlanta is your best bet.

Sorry - you can disregard this post. I returned the GV-D1000 and purchased the DSR-11 instead!

Can anyone identify the Sony DVCAM deck in this photo (http://greenmist.com/misc/deck.jpg)? It doesn't match anything in Sony's current lineup. Model number (not legible in the low res photo)? Where could I find specs?

I'm trying to get some info on equipment from the theatre in South America where I'm doing a show this summer, and so far this about all I've been able to learn about their DV capabilities. :-)

Thanks!

Hi Boyd,
The deck in question is a Sony DSR-80. Here is where I found it.
http://www.fullcompass.com/Products/pages/SKU--13275/

Unfortunatly not a current model in Sony's line up. Also likely does not have IEEE1394 I/O. Has all professional analogue I/O, RS 422 deck control and optional SDI.
If I had one, I'd take a DSR-11 with me, just in case.

Cheers,

Boyd, you're looking at a Sony DSR-85.

Sold for nearly $20 grand when first introduced back in 1999.

Check out the PDF for it right here (http://pro.sony.com.hk/product/spec/brochure/MK4056V6.pdf). Hope this helps,

Rats, I guess Devlyn beat me to the punch! Whether it's an 80 or 85, I'll defer to him on that.

The physical decks are identical.
The DSR-85 looks like a upgrade of the 80.
The only difference I can find between the decks is the 85 looks like it had a new drum mechanism.

The only other question is regarding video standard. South America is split between PAL and NTSC. The west is NTSC and the east is PAL.

The PAL versions of the DSR-80 & 85 will be DSR-80P and DSR-85P.
Also voltage. North East is 120V/60Hz South West is 220V/50Hz with a few places at 220V/60Hz.
Just for your information check exactly what countries you are going to for voltage and TV standards if you are bringing and equipment of your own.