What exactly is meant by transfer performance? I assume it is the speed and accuracy with which it moves back and forth?

Good question. Speed and accuracy are basically the key characteristics. Tapes fast-forward and rewind much faster in a deck. Cueing positioning is also much faster. That is, decks are designed to find and position to specific frames on a tape with much less thrashing than a camera's transport. Scrubbing forward and backward with a deck also requires much less mechanical wear than with a camera's transport (which is designed with specific motion modes can take a feww seconds to change whenever the tape direction is reversed). Etc.

As I noted, if you're not planning to capture many tapes weekly or monthly and if you normally just grab the whole tape during capture and later slice it up with your editor then I'd recommend that you just use your main camera and save the expense altogether. Such usage is really not going to unduly wear it out.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : I'm a strong advocate for getting an inexpensive deck such as the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or 2000. -->>>

I'm pondering getting a deck rather than using my XL1 while editing. The Panasonic AG-DV1000 is on the list but what does the panel think of the Sony DV1000??? Something that doubles up as a deck AND a field monitor sounds good to me... If Porta-brace make a case for them someone must be using it!!


Regards

Ross

The Sony Walkman field decks are nice. But you pay a dear premium for their portability/compact design and the integrated lcd monitor. If those are features you don't need get a more stationary design.

I went the second cam route. It is not as good as a real deck, but has its advantages when you want to have a knock around cam or a second cam for some stuff. I used the GL2 to shoot a friends wedding. The GL2 was on the tripod, then I left it stationary for the ceremony and then took the seocnd came (ZR45MC) around for some angle shots. Worst problem is the quality difference of the 2 cams, but I played it off as the difference in view poitns, the hand held lower quality being the participants viewpoint where the GL2 was more the "staged" view point. The only thing different I would do would be skip the ZR45 and go for maybe a Sony TRV27 or soemthing as I beleive the image quality would be closer then, I don't think the Canon ZR line (although a popular best seller) holds its own against the Sonys in thew same class.

If you try a deck you will NEVER want to go back to using a camera. The decks are more robust and handle jogging and shuttling MUCH faster than a camera. Decks can also fast forward and rewind MUCH faster than any camera. Plus, the deck can stay connected to the computer and TV 100% of the time - no more connecting and disconnecting wires just to use a camera.

Decks are GREAT. I am using a Panasonic AG-DV2000 which has performed tremendously for nearly 3 years.

I guess it is a matter of preference. The deck appears to have advantages, but I usually just copy in my video and do everything else ont he computer, then if I need to keep a DV master I output the master back to the cam. Then again I am a novice and only do simply shoot and editing, maybe in a year or so when I move up I will think about it, but by then I'll want a secodn GL2 to do multi-angle shoots!

On the hunch that you will probably do more, rather than less, video I give a nod to a deck. I've had a Sony DHR-1000 for several years and it's been a work horse. It wasn't cheap and I'm sure there are better decks for less money (see Ken's suggestions) on the market now. Running a tape back and forth in a deck a few times is a totally different experience than doing the same moves with a camera's transport. I suppose if you a relatively certain you won't be doing any follow up projects you could go with the B cam.

FWIW

Does anyone here use a DV deck for their NLE? If you do, what type do you use, and why did you choose that one over another?

Thanks
Paul

Absolutely. Have a Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck. It works GREAT.

I am looking to transfer my DV footage to my computer and back. I don't want to use my Canon XL1 because I don't want to wear out parts on it.

Is there like a Separate unit I can buy to do this? Or do I have to buy another DV camera?

If I have to buy another DV camera, will the quailty of the picture degrade since I am using a lessor DV cam to transfer the footage?

I would do a search on this subject, but not sure what to look for.

Thanks in Adavance!

I think I will make a small donation to this site for all this good info!

I am not sure about an external device you can use thats not a Mini DV camera, but using a lower quality camera like a 1 chip will not degrade the quality of the image.

You can use a DV deck such as the Sony DSR-11 or you could use another camera. There are many different decks out there that would work for this, the DSR-11 because of it's price, seems to be a favorite if you are using DV over firewire.

Sony DSR-20...reliable, smooth transport action, DV or mini-DV

When the data is traveling over firewire it is all ones and zeros so it will not care how many chips the camera has or how good or bad the lens is. It doesn't lose anything in quality.

You other alternative is to buy a DV deck which like cameras can vary wildly in price.

Rick

Ed,

Why did you choose the Panasonic? Was the ability to read DVCPRo important to you or was it just the best choice at the time?

Rick

DSR-20.

Absolutely reliable for the past almost 4 years. Does everything I ask.

Because it will run from 12 VDC, it is quite useful in the field.

Now of course the 20 has been replaced by the 25 with its LCD screen which I do covet a bit.

I bought it 3 years ago. I don't know how many of the other models were available then but there, definitely, were not as many as today. There were not that many MiniDV players listed in the catalogs I acquired at that time and I wanted a good, heavy duty, unit. It has been.

To this point, I have only used it for MiniDV but it can definitely handle full size DV tapes as well. I leave it plugged into the computer all the time and use it for pass-thru for external monitor viewing and VHS taping. I can also use it to pass-thru the other direction as well (i.e. capturing a VHS tape via firewire).

For me, it has just worked. No particular reason for purchase other than it was what I found at the time that met my specifications. I have never regretted having this deck.

A very common solution is to buy a cheap 1-CCD consumer DV camcorder like the Canon ZR40, and use it as a playback deck. Should be around $500 or less. This will be less expensive than an actual DV deck, which will cost around $1000 -- although our sponsor Pro-Tape has a JVC dual deck (Mini-DV and S-VHS) for $685 refurb, $885 new. See www.dvinfo.net/sponsors

This may seem stupid, but, when firewiring, does the "don't mix your tape brand" caveat still apply, or is that only when shooting?

Have a Panasonic AG-DV1000 deck. Works great! Saves wear and tear on the GL2. Works great for capturing, printing to tape and used during the editing process to a television monitor. (I use it with Vegas 4.0 and it's capture software)

Ted

have panasonic ag dv 2000 deck ... handles mini and full size dv tapes.. it can also playback DVCAM tapes.

I also have a Panasonic AG-DV1000 deck. I purchased it because it costs less than many of the decks available and I really wanted a deck instead of a second camcorder. This was before the JVC one with dual MiniDV and VHS, otherwise it would have been between those two. The AG-DV1000 works fine so far through Avid Xpress DV 3.5.

Paul,

I;ve got a JVC SR-VS20 mini-dv and SVHS deck...its the best thing i've ever gotten to date, well atleast for my purposes.

only slight problem with it is premiere doesn't like to print to video to the deck sometimes, but once its on DV, copying to VHS for distribution is easy, or capturing from VHS is great, and it's much less expensive then the XL1s (1/4 price) so i don't mind wearing out the heads on it

just my 2 cents
~Mike

There currently is also another thread on this here (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6659)!

The don't mix brands caution applies to any tape inserted in the camcorder for any reason - whether recording, playing back for viewing, or for firewire capture. It is all the same as far as the mechanical system is concerned.

So Don,

Are you saying don't mix brands of high quailty tapes in the canon XL-1?

You could also consider just buying a ZR40, since it has real-time analog pass through and it can be had for about $390 off the web,,, that is what I use for a deck in the field - it's a lot easier to pack than a deck. I have yet to experience any problems using a ZR40 in this way.

- don

I agree with Don. I have an elura 40mc that i use as my deck. Its better than wearing out my xl1s and suits my needs perfectly. Even has a little LCD screen on the side (not that i really need that but its fun to have haha)

The issue is that tapes with different characteristics (mechanical and chemical) will leave different deposits in any camcorder. If after a long standing diet of one tape youchange to another with different properties, it may cause deposits to shift, float aroudn, clog heads, etc. Some brands are just remarking of another well known brand, but who knows which is what? (E.g., Canon branded may be Panasonic in side. Panasonic and JVC tape might be from the same factory given that they have the same parent company.) Even within a brand there may be different formulations that could cause a somewhat similar effect. Thus, a generally safe practice is to stick with one brand/type of tape, and to plan on a head cleaning if you have to change brands/types.

You know that with the JVC SR-VS20 deck you can record directly to the S-VHS side from the computer? And capture to the computer via firewire from the S-VHS side too?

"a generally safe practice is to stick with one brand/type of tape, and to plan on a head cleaning if you have to change brands/types."

That mean one or two passes of a head cleaning tape or factory cleaning of the heads???

I use a Panasonic AG-DV1000 Mini DV deck as my source deck. I shoot using a XL-1 and a GL2. I use Panasonic tapes after having a poor experience several times with brand new JVC tapes. Having the source deck definately saves wear 7 tear on my cameras.

As a backup source deck, I recently purchased a Sony TRV 17 Mini Dv camera but the bottom loading feature is a pain in the neck once the camera is connected to my computer (the wires get in the way of loading & ejecting).

I saw that you stated the JVC Combo deck had problems "printing to video in Premiere". Is this when trying to preview with a monitor attached to the deck? I'm buying a deck in the next month and am having a hard time choosing and finding information on these decks. I hear the Panasonic DV1000 is a good deck, but also heard this guys heads ran out after 100hrs. Any info would be appreciated.

Michael

I also use a ZR40 as a deck. Cheap, small, portable, and hey, it's a video camera too! :)

Hi folks,

One question: Doesn´t it matter what kind of deck/camcorder you use. If it is a DV unit, the import with Firewire/iLink will stay in the same quality as imported directly from the XL1s, for example?

Ivan

It's not the deck or cam you're playing the dv off of, it's the capture board you're recording (capturing) into.
The deck or cam should be sending straight digital info with no compression.

I use a Sony dsr-40. Love the various input and output connex- aka S video out, and flawless (knock on wood) machine control via Premiere and my DV500 (onboard capture card.) (the dv500 does change the input 'quality' into it's own codec. Tho they'll tell you it's lossless compression.)

Curious if anyone has used a ZR40 as a deck to save on the heads of their GL2. onecall.com has factory refurbished units for 350 bucks and they are a canon authorized dealer. I know they aren't a board sponsor but I don't think board sponsors are offering these units refurbished so hopefully I'm not breaking the rules. Just looking at options...

Max

Max,
I'm not a big fan of using small cams as decks for a variety of reasons, the most prominent of which are as follows.

1. Small, consumer cameras' transports are just not designed for heavy deck use, especially if it involves alot of cueing starts/stops.

2. If you ultimately end up buying a deck, you will have basically paid the price of the deck plus the price of one (or more) inexpensive camcorders for that deck.

On average, how many hours of footage do you capture in a week?

Some people have used the small cameras as decks with success. While tape handling is not very robust as would be the case with a real deck they are low cost, work for occasional editing, and give a limited backup camera capability as a bonus.

Is there a recommended robust deck that be can used to play back our little mini tapes? I ask this in follow up to the general discussion of whether you can get by with using a cheaper mini camera to serve as your deck.

Hello Barrie,
I really like the Panasonic AG-DV1000 deck for miniDV-only. I've used one for over 2 years and had no troubles. Firewire-equipped, great for captures, very robust, small and lightweight, under $1,000.

I've been using a Sony DHR-1000 for about 4 years now. Works well, and it does full size tape too, allowing projects up to 3 hours to be dumped to a single tape tape. It supports both FIREWIRE and LANC control.

I've used my camera as a deck in the past but now that I'm getting a GL2 I'd prefer to find an inexpensive deck. I'm not a pro; at least I'm not currently making any money from this so I can only afford an inexpensive deck. Anyone done any research recently on inexpensive decks? I only need the most rudimentary functions. If there are no decks under $500 I'll probably get a refurb camera to use as a deck.

I've been looking for an affordable solution too. Cheap (less than $800.00 or so) VTR's do not exist. Probably because there is a fairly small market for such a soecialized piece of gear.
The average consumer/pro-sumer of a miniDV cam generally is not in the market for one, and the pro level user wants one that will work for pro level jobs (i.e. lots of hours of play time + with the features demanded by the industry).
So i'm just going to bite the bullet and get a JVC VS30U. It's about $820 from Pro-Tape or Zotz and it gives tha added bonus of being able to dub to S-VHS.

The other options are use the GL2 (if less than a couple hours of tape per week) or buy a basic consumer cam like the ZR40 (about $400)

Hope this helps,
c

I was thinking of buying a vs30U until I read some of the threads here and on dv.com. The vs30u has a bad rep for its firewire implementation. BUT, I don't own one and have never seen one. Your mileage may vary. You may want to do a bit more research before getting one.

Bud, the only miniDV deck you are going to get under $500 is a Canon ZR40 or similar camcorder. It's actually fairly ergonomic as a video deck. Sitting normally, you flip the LCD screen to sit flat against the camera, facing out, and have all the VCR buttons sitting right in front of you. The tape loads from the bottom which is so-so, but for the price, most people can live with it.

Plus it's a camcorder! Who couldn't use a second camera?

I use my ZR45 as a deck to save my GL2. But I essentially only import video from tape then edit and then usually export the finished product out to another tape (for archival). I don't use the cam for frequent or rapid tape repositioning, simplyt import a tape then export. IT work great for that and becomes a second bum around cam to use where I woudl not bring the GL2.

buydig.com has ZR40s for $409, ZR60s for $425.

I have a GL2 and am looking very hard at the ZR60 as a deck. Part of this is superstition, my thinking that my tapes will be safer if they are used only on Canon transports. And I do like the notion of having a backup cam.

But see the comments in the "ZR40 as Deck" thread in this forum.

Take a look at Panasonic Palmcorders- they're inexpensive and produce fairly nice video themselves. I use one and have had zero problems with it. And since many here use/recommend Panasonic Mini-DV tapes- we know their wont be issues with tape types......good luck.