Looking for the real scoop on whether this unit works with my camera. the Focus website compatibility chart doesn't list the Canon under this product. Maybe because it's new and they haven't updated their charts yet? In addition, I need to confirm whether the tape mechanism on the Canon must still be used with this unit? I use the firewire port on the Canon to record to a firewire capable DVD recorder and or a Sony DVCAM deck without rolling tape. Is this possible with the FS H200?

David,

I purchased the FS-H200 recently to pair with my XH-A1 and everything seems to work fine. There are three control modes: Normal, External and Synchro. Normal is where recording is initiated on the device. External, which is recommended, allows recording to be initiated on the camera. Synchro is sort of the fallback mode that works for older cameras. It requires recording to tape concurrently. I got Normal working pretty quickly. Only just got External to work tonight (been fiddling with it just a bit for the past several days) after realizing "DV Control" was turned off on the camera ... Oops! The company probably hasn't run tests with a good variety of cameras, which would explain the inaccurate / conservative compatibility chart. You'll also notice that they only recommend using the Sandisk Extreme III 16 and 32 GB compact flash cards. Now, that's what I happen to be using but I'm sure cards rated at equivalent or better speeds from other manufacturers won't have a problem.

I haven't had a chance to test the unit extensively but so far I'm feeling pretty good about my purchase. I just hope Focus will do what they did for the FS-C line and add on-device video playback through a firmware upgrade. The color screen should be put to better use!

I'm currently in the process of setting up a blog about my cinematography / video interests and promise to write a detailed review of the FS-H200 for it when I can.

-David

hey thx for the reply.
when u mention "older cameras" are u referring to the original A1 or some other brand/model?

btw,
what do u know about the supposed 2 gig file size issue? Does the unit start a new clip every 10 minutes or so? If so, how do u link them up in post without missing frames etc...?

thx for any reply
d

If you use FAT format you will have this issue. If you use UDF you can get around the 2GB gap when using M2T as the file source. I cannot say if it removes the limit when using Quicktime files though.

yep, that's what I'd be using, Quicktime as I use Final Cut Pro

The newer (FC2?) supports M2Ts. I should have a chance this saturday to try and do a quick 10 minute record in the Quicktime format and let you know if the file gets broken up.

alas,
I'm using ver 5.1.4 which is ver 1. Apple dropped basic color correction and added Color to FCS 2. I didn't upgrade. Now with FCS 3, they've dropped LiveType, which is a quick but powerful text generator. Your now forced to learn the complex program called Motion.

I have the XH-A1, not the XH-A1S. And again, it works fine.

I should clarify why External mode is important. The XH-A1 doesn't at all indicate any recording is going on while the FS-H200 is recording. If you're in External mod, the FS-H200 will start recording when you hit record on the camera. This sort of reassures you that the two devices are speaking properly. If it's extremely important that you're capturing footage (say, you're shooting an event or paying actors / crew by the hour), I'd stick with Synchro mode or hit pause and check each clip periodically. It's pretty easy to get the FS-H200 to playback into the XH-A1 to do this.

I have a Canon XH-A1...and I want to buy a firestore fs-h200. Do all the frame rates record onto the FS-H200, such as 24f, 30f, 60i? Do they playback from the firestore through the camera? Do you set the firestore to record at HDV 1080i then record any of the fps? Thanks ahead of time

also with the xha1, if you are recording tape and roll past the end, will the fs h200 continue recording and if so, are any frames dropped when the tape ends?

I have the same questions as Joe. Has there been an answer here or elsewhere?

Thanks,
Paul

I have the FS-H200 and it works a lot like the FS-5 units.

Yes, the files will play back through firewire on the camera.

The FS-H200, like the FS-5 only records:

Quicktime HD (NTSC):
1080/60
720/30

But the M2T format setting will record all the 24f, 30f and 720/60 type of formats.

Been shooting 1080/60 QT in both FAT mode and UDF modes without any issues.

Note: There is no missing footage between the clip breaks when shooting 1080/60 QT/FAT mode. Just drop the clips into Final Cut Pro and stat editing.

This will work great for me since I mainly shoot 24f or 30f. I should be able to use Clipwrap to bring the clips into FCP.

I too am interested in getting this and i shoot at 24f on my xh a1. So it can in mp2t but not in quicktime. So when you bring it in to fcp how would it work, im guessing have to rewrap into a quicktime. If thats case how much time extra does this take because if takes a while to import then rewrap then i guess no point and should just get fsc

Although I have the JVC HD-110 (which isn't listed as compatible with the FS-H200 either), I do use QT (720P30) and the QT files definitely exceed (up to just under 32g) the 2 gig limit.
As for wrapping the m2t files, Tim Dashwood has a utility for that listed as a sticky in the JVC GY-HD forum. BTW, although my JVC HD-110 shouldn't be considered an "older" camera, I haven't been able to use External mode with it. Syncro works fine though, and having a tape backup is exactly what I want.
HTH,
Ed

I have a sony MRC1K that I have been using with my Canon XHA1. It has worked very well at all frame rates and formats. I am shopping around for another DTE device because I just purchases a refurbished Canon XLH1. My possible choices are another MRC1K, the Firestore FS-200 or the Datavideo DN-60 (which is supposed to start shipping this month) . The MRC1K will continue recording after tape runs out. You can bring in the footage through log and transfer in FCP or you can download the clips directly and then use a utility like clipwrap to rewrap the files as HDV .mov files. I am trying to find out more about the Datavideo DN-60 . There is a very good thread on the MRC1K on DVinfo worth checking out:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr-mrc1k-cf-card-recorder/116520-awesome-news-canon-users-28.html#post1482589

Does clipwrap work on the mac, and is it very time consuming?

Most of my questions have been answered, but before I order the H200...

Does the A1 have to have a tape in it when you record to the FS-H200? If so, what happens when you reach the end of the tape?

I'm about to record a show that is 1 hour 45 minutes with no intermission. I want to be sure I can just record without having to swap anything.

Thanks,
Howard

you don't need a tape in the camera to record to the FS. The tape is a backup if you use it. That being said, I've experienced a dropout or two every time I use the FS. Rolling a tape simultaneously has saved me. Don't know what happens when the tape reaches the end however.

Thanks for the info. I'm curious if the "no tape" warning flashes the whole time too.

I'm surprised that there is still drop outs. I experience those with tapes all the time, I would have thought that direct to digital would have stopped that. e.g. I thought it was the tape.

I guess I will order it and play with amd without tape before the show to see what happens at the end of a tape.

I use the FS-V with the A1 (similar software I would assume) .. at the end of the tape, if you set the firestore recording manually (e.g. no syncro), such that you press record on the firestore then initiate record as usual on your canon, the firestore will continue to record even after the tape ends.

when I first got the firestore, I thought the camera had dropped (e.g. not sent) approx 10 frames to the firestore when my tape ended. however I just recorded a show the other night and I don't believe I got this missing video - my external audio recorder and video were exactly in sync at long past when the tape ended.

It could have been that the frames were not sent (in my original use) when I put in a new tape and pressed record - I think that's what happened (e.g. when the camera initiates the tape record function, it must have a gap of about 10 frames that aren't sent on firewire). the other night when I didn't get any missing video frames, I did not put in a new tape, I just let it keep running on the firestore. at least that gave me 1 hour of backup on tape. if you put in a new tape, be careful when you initiate record since you may get dropped frames (that won't be on tape either).

interestingly, eventhough I didn't get the CV model of the firestore (e.g. for the canon), the canon still shows on the display when the firestore is recording (red dot - separate from the tape indicator). although I believe what you don't get with that is the info on time left on the firestore, etc.

overall I've been very happy with the FS-V and the A1! (would have liked something higher resolution using the analog output of the camera however it was just too complex to go with another solution) .. but the direct to disk is not only a real time saver but is so convenient, makes things really easy.

Dave, thank you for this post.

I will probably end up doing exactly what you say. Just not change tapes.
The show I will be recording is Chorus Line with no intermission. I do have a weekend before the show to play and I will try everything, but I'm guessing I will end up doing what you mentioned.

Thanks again,
Howard

Since I won't have my Firestore until Friday I have a couple more very specific questions.

Does the "No tape" "red tape icon" flash then entire time you are recording when not using tape?
Do you even press (how) record on the camera when not using tape. Or just set the camera up for recording and press record on the firestore?
I'm thinking I should disable auto-shut off when recording without a tape. Is this true?

All three of those question apply to no tape, or using one tape as the first hour back up as you mentioned.

Thanks again,
HOward

on my hv-20 (for example), I record to the firestore and use no tape. Just turn on the camera & set it up, disable auto shut-off (as you say) and then hit record on the firestore. The camera displays as you would expect, and as it would if it were just on but nothing was happening.

on the A1, for example, when I record with tape and then let it run past the tape end, you will see the warning as you get to the end of the tape, yellow icon, then red tape icon with flashing warning message ("tape end"). the tape runs out and the message goes away, but I believe the icon stays red (not flashing) and the tape counter stays as it was at the end of the tape. you'll continue to see the red dot next to the USB icon on the monitor indicating that the firestore is continuing to record.

** important ** : I always make my physical connection between the firestore and the camera with both devices off. then turn on the firestore and then turn on the camera. DON'T plug the USB into the camera with the camera powered on. (stories of USB damage that way on the camera - better safe than sorry).

Thanks again Dave.

When you say USB, you do mean firewire on the A1, right?

yes, firewire on the camera and USB to the PC .. same point though about connecting when power is off (I guess I was thinking about the USB but you're right, it's really for both ).. on the PC connection I just make sure my firestore is powered off when I make the physical connection, then poiwer up the firestore

Got it and thanks for all the information.

David,
Got my FS today, still reading the manual before I do anything.
They include two tabe to attach to CF cards to make them "easier" to remove.
Did you do that?

I don't have any CF cards with me at work (where I had it shipped), so I can't tell how hard it is to rremove them.

Thanks,
Howard

well, my firestore is the hard drive version so I'm hoping one of the guys with the CF card version will answer

How do you mount (use) it?

I got the cradle but there doesn't seem to be a "right" place to put it with the A1. As of now I have the cradle mounted on the tripod arm, but it is not super secure and doesn't seem right.

Thanks,
Howard

If it's the same holder I got with my unit, it's almost useless. it's a well intentioned but impractical design. It's intended to mount on the camera handle not the tripod. Having to take it apart with a tiny allen head wrench and screw it to the FS is not what you should be doing in the field or when setting up for an inside job.
I'm considering coming up with a simple idea for a tripod mount and going to someone and have them make it for me. Haven't figured out just what I want yet.

For the time being, I use whatever is available to set the FS on top of within easy reach of the firewire cable.

Thanks, that is what I was afraid of.

I guess I will leave it mounted to my tripod arm and use some gaffers tape to make it more secure.
Cause it is a real pain to take it off and put it back on.

I use a bracket1 with the A1 and the firestore .. I removed the heavy clamp part from the firestore bracket then drilled 2 holes in the remaining part and mounted that to the bracket1, so that the firestore faces to the operator side of the camera so I can watch it while I am recording .. I'll have to take a photo of it .. the clamp part of the firestore bracket is *really* heavy which gives it a solid feel but adds a lot of weight and I find it impractical ..

Never thought of modifying it.
Looking forward to a picture.

Thanks.

Thought I would post an update.
Since I got the FS-H200 I have used it about 15 times for shows up to 2 1/2 hours.
I've never had one single drop out and even though I have an extra 32GB card and extra battery I have not needed them. Though for the show that ran 2 1/2 hours, I was thinking of swapping.

I still have it mounted on the tripod arm in the cradle. What a pain. I wish "focus" would do something about that.

I've stopped using tapes in my A1 and just use them in the HV20, which is my fixed full stage shot secondary camera. If the FS-H200 was cheaper, I would get one for that and stop using tapes all together.

Since I used to use the top of the line Pani tapes, I figured I have save a couple hundred bucks, but that is not why I got the FS. I was hoping for no drop outs and am very happy in that reguard.

I use quicktime mode and have found that I need to use a de-interlace filter when I bring the mov files into Final Cut 7. Not a big deal except that it does increase render time.

David,

I purchased the FS-H200 recently to pair with my XH-A1 and everything seems to work fine. There are three control modes: Normal, External and Synchro. Normal is where recording is initiated on the device. External, which is recommended, allows recording to be initiated on the camera. Synchro is sort of the fallback mode that works for older cameras. It requires recording to tape concurrently. I got Normal working pretty quickly. Only just got External to work tonight (been fiddling with it just a bit for the past several days) after realizing "DV Control" was turned off on the camera ... Oops! The company probably hasn't run tests with a good variety of cameras, which would explain the inaccurate / conservative compatibility chart. You'll also notice that they only recommend using the Sandisk Extreme III 16 and 32 GB compact flash cards. Now, that's what I happen to be using but I'm sure cards rated at equivalent or better speeds from other manufacturers won't have a problem.

I haven't had a chance to test the unit extensively but so far I'm feeling pretty good about my purchase. I just hope Focus will do what they did for the FS-C line and add on-device video playback through a firmware upgrade. The color screen should be put to better use!

I'm currently in the process of setting up a blog about my cinematography / video interests and promise to write a detailed review of the FS-H200 for it when I can.

-David



Hello David -

Last week I purchased the FSH200 and I am going through the same ordeal as you have gone through. I got the FSH200 working in normal, I cannot control it through the camera (Canon XH-A1). Following your post I noticed that also in my case the camera DV control was off, and I turned it on, but it did not make any difference. I also tried syncro, but it did not seem to work. Any idea what else is wrong with my system?

Grateful for you help - Yair.

Yair, did you work it out?
You need to turn the DV control on and set the FS to External (Operation Menu : Control) you will see an E in a box on the recording screen, this works perfectly with both XH A1 and the A1s.
The deal with the Canons, as far as I can tell, they will only run m2t files. The CF version I believe will work for all formats. There again as I do not use FC ergo QT files, I could be wrong.

Thanks all...bought a FS-H200 16 months ago and used it for awhile, then went back to mostly tapes since the quality of the F@-H200 didn't seem as high (user error, I know). I tried using it again 5 months ago and couldn't get the video to record to the Flash drive...now I learned about the DV Control switch. THANK YOU!

I typically shoot in HDV 60i and wondered if somebody else who uses these settings could send me their complete FS-H200 settings for me to use and try this again. I've got some work coming up that will require quick transfer and I need to get this working properly. Thanks for any help you can give!

How do you have the card formatted, UDF/FAT32?
Do you have the auto proxy turned on?

I have found that the UDF format works the best because it allows for files larger than 2Gb therefore if your shoot/scene is over 9minutes it does not get broken up (it is not as seamless as one would hope - I was getting breaks in the audio).

I do not use the proxies but have the option to create a proxy if I need it.

Which folder were/are you copying to your computer?

Here are photos of my FS-CF Pro setup...

So I know this thread is a couple years old but I just purchased a Canon XH-A1s and a FS-H200 DTE. BUT I am having trouble getting them to talk to each other in HDV. Was there any setting other then the DV selection switched ON under system set-up in the camera?? Or is there a setting I am missing in the DTE ( I have reset both to factory settings, or so I believe), tried it in Quick Time and M2T with 24f, 30f, and 60i.
The cam and DTE will talk fine in DV mode and records really good, but when I switch both to HDV it doesn't record. The cam notices it is plugged in when I connect the firewire but that is all.
Thanks for any help , Andy

PS I am cross posting this to a couple of the threads on the fs-h200 if you see this post elsewhere given the age of the thread and the necessity to solve this problem before an event in April.

If I recall I had to format the drive not FAT/Fat32 but UDF or some other format that the device allowed and then I would select the format of .m2t 1080i

Once I did that I recall being to record things as needed as long as the camera was also set to 1080i hdv mode.

I wrote some stuff about it ages ago here: http://www.simplethoughtproductions.com/2009/09/12/firestore-fsh-200-review/

Thanks for the article, it gave me some ideas, still no solution yet. Would the size or speed of the cards have nay major effect? I am using 16gig Scandisk Extreme lll at 30mbs (which i believe was the minimum listed, but didn't know if that would restrict HD recording but still allow DV recording?

Hey Andy,

I just ran across this post of yours after running across another somewhere else. What Josh says is related to what I mentioned in my other reply elsewhere. REFORMAT required. I found out by accident with my gear, but it held 100% of the time. Reformatting my CF cards solved the problem for me. Whenever change format in the camera, the unit has to be switched AND the card needs a format.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, i have tried reformatting, It came in the FAT32 and the manual mentioned UDF and Josh's post confirmed that so I reformatted into UDF (a couple times) and still, it will record DV 16:9 in RAW and .AVI just fine, but when i switch to HDV on both the cam and the DTE it refuses to copy. Having filmed to sd cards in smaller SD cams, but I am very new to the DTEs and the prosumer cams (almost wondering if i shouldn't have bit the bullet and got the XF100 but dont know if i want to give up on this challenge just yet ...LOL ) .


So far I have:
Reset both devices to factory settings,
Running a 16gb scandisk extreme 3 card at 30mb per sec (tried 2 different cards -same specs) .
Tried in HD 1080 - 24f, 30f, and 60i
DV selection on the cam under system set up is on.
Tried in m2t and quicktime,
Toyed with time codes,
Tried in Normal, external and Synchro

so now i am just stabbing in the dark and hoping some one else may have more ideas.

Thanks Andy

" but when I switch, it refuses to copy..."

When you switch, you need to reformat AGAIN, if your firestore behaves like my DataVideo. Does it mention anywhere in your manual that you can have DV and HDV on the same card? Or does it state you cannot mix file types on the same card? If you can't mix file types, that's a really strong hint you can't leave the card formatted the same way as it was recording DV.

I found this out by accident with my units. I'd always recorded HDV, but had a one time project that had to be DV. A few days later, I had another job. So, I just emptied the folder like I always do. The camera recognized the recorder, but would not record. Turning camera on and off, recorder on and off. Nothing worked.

I had to reformat the card, with the card in the recorder, while the recorder was set up for HDV. No switching allowed. It's the same going from HDV to DV. Whenever I switch DV to HDV,or HDV to DV, the camera recognize each other normally, but acts like there is no card in the recorder, or the card is full, or something. They won't work together to record until I format the card.

Check your Firestore manual and see if the Firestore allows both DV and HDV on the same card or not. The DataVideo units are picky about how the card is set up. They won't allow both formats on the same card. I suspect the Firestore is that way too.

By the way, do you have DIGITAL VIDEO CONTROL set like it says on page 85 of the XH-A1S manual? Do you get the green square beside the lightning bolt on your camera's lcd screen, meaning communication is established, but still can't record? If so, that is exactly what was going on when I had the trouble.

If you're not using DIGITAL VIDEO CONTROL on page 85 of the manual (or page 74 of the XH-A1 manual), it's a miracle you were able to record DV. Some cameras output DV and HDV through the fire wire all the time. But some don't. Some will output DV, but not HDV without setting up DIGITAL VIDEO CONTROL. There are lots of threads from "the olden days" about this kind of stuff. It took a while to learn the quirks... My cameras are sometimes a little slow to link up with the recorder. The green box doesn't appear quickly all the time, and I need to reset the camera and recorder by turning both off and on again. It can be aggravating.

Before we go further with this, what DOES your screen show? Do you have the Lightning bolt and green box, just the lightning bolt, lightning bolt and dashes line?

I have nearly read most of the manual, and to this point it says nothing about the disk being formatted with the DTE at the setting you would like to record in. But just to be sure i have tried formatting it in both HDV and DV settings with no change. (did this in both FAT3 and UFD) . That again makes me wonder if a slower card might allow DV recording but not HDV. Due to my limited knowledge of these i didnt know, The web site on VTEC (who bought out Focus i believe ) says that it has a 30mb per sec minimum but all the recommended ones they give are 60 mb per sec.

Does that sound like a logical choice? To upgrade to a 32gb CF card at 60+ mb per sec???

" Do you have the Lightning bolt and green box, just the lightning bolt, lightning bolt and dashes line?

Sorry, i typed my last reply before i saw you edited your response, I have also noticed that the B&H Web site recommends a 40mb/s (266x minimum) so i dont know if that is a prob or not, BUT ...

To your questions, when i plug the DTE in i get the dashes right after the DV box with the lightning bolt arrow and then after a few seconds it disappears (it does this in both HDV and DV, even when DV is recording )

Dont know if this helps either, I have hooked the cam up to a computer in both DV and HDV modes and it it appears to sending video fine or so it appears. ...

Thanks for your help , Andy