Hey all. Well the tutorial files seemed to work smoothly on my system. They were simply MOS files and a voiceover with music on one audio track so it was a total of one vid, two audio. Now that I've started working with some of my DVX footage and AE files at 24p, the program stutters the video and audio for a few seconds before "catching up" and then playing the material correctly.This is with only one Vid track of an AE project which is 30 seconds long and a clip from a song (I've tried using both WAV and MP3 with no luck). It's very frustrating! I have the DV out or green light turned off and don't have any effects or color correction on my timeline. Changing my video quality setting doesn't really help me either. So here are my 2 year old Dell (purchased Jan 03') specs:

Dell 2.4 Gigahertz P4
1 gig RDram
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (128 meg card w/ dual monitor support)
DV only HD at 240 gigs

Listed on the AVID site is that a pc running Avid REQUIRES atleast 1 gig or ram but they rec. 1.5 gigs. I thought it was rumored around here that past 1 gig isn't really useful for real performance gains. Is this what I should be looking into updating? Maybe max out my RAM? Getting a new PC is really not in the cards, not for another year or so and this is the only program I've run into performance issues with (well the Doom3 demo slaughterd my pc as well). The only thing I noticed strange was when I import 24p files, instead of just having the Vid + Aud + TC1 tracks that usually show up standard with 30i projects, it has all these plus the following track names:

24
24p
25
30D
30ND
EC1

And yes, I made sure I didn't choose that it was film stock. These extra tracks run the length of my project with purple bars and contain numbers and such. So, sorry for the long post, I really hope some Avid savvy person out there can give me some advice!

Personally I doubt you could upgrade anything (hardware wise)
to increase speed. Sounds like a find PC, and the difference
between 1.0 and 1.5 GB should not include things like you mention.

Are you running some other device on your IDE channel with
your harddisk?

My ATA controller card is only running the 240 gig while my internal IDE strip has my 30 gig, the 120 gig system drive and my DVD burner.

Bryan,

What version of Pro are you running? Also, what version of Windows XP are you running with which service pack?

I assume that your internal harddisk are on one IDE channel and
another channel the DVD burner?

Richard - I'm running Avid Xpress Pro 4.5.1 and Windows XP Home version 2002 with Service Pack 2 installed- I see there is a 4.6 for Avid, I'll download it.

Rob - hmmm, I might be a bit ignorant in this category. I have multiple ribbon strips or IDE running in my PC, one has a few plugs along its strip and then the other is the ide ribbon from the controller card. The factory ribbon which has multiple plug spots is on my two HD's (30 gig and 120 gig system drive) and then the standalone ATA controller card ribbon is going only to the 240gig. Does that sound correct? If I were having a detrimental performance issue due to an incorrect IDE or HD setup, wouldn't I notice the performance problems in other NLE's such as vegas or is Avid just very picky?

Bryan,

Home version of XP not supported, this could be part of the problem.

Minimum PC System Specifications for Avid Xpress Pro
Processors: Dual or Single 2.4 GHz Xeon processor OR Pentium 4 1.6 GHz processor OR Pentium M 1.8 GHz processor (mobile configurations). Note: The boot drive should be IDE, SCSI, or SATA 7200 RPM. Do not use internal SCSI as a boot device if you also plan on adding external SCSI drives (in that case use IDE or SATA).
Operating system: Windows XP Professional w/Service Pack 1, 1a or 2.0
System Memory: 1.0 GB minimum, 1.5 GB recommended
Increased memory size will improve high stream count play performance.
Open GL graphics cards : NVidia QuadroFX 1300 PCI Express, Nvidia QuadroFX 1100 AGP 8x, NVidia QuadroFX 500 AGP 8X, or NVidia Quadro4 980 XGL AGP 8X
Add-in IEEE-1394 PCI card (required if no built-in 1394). Note: The add-in PCI card must be a universal PCI card with the T.I chip set. Current qualified /supported cards include:
ADS Pyro PCI 64, part #API-311
SIIG 1394 3-Port PCI i/e, part #NN-400012
Internal disk drive: IDE or SATA boot drive
CD or DVD-ROM drive

Richard - the update to 4.6 solved my issues. Bah, Avid, you reduced me to new lows, not even checking the updates and having two rudamentary recent posts in a row but one day i will be on your level, one day.

Bryan,
Great, glad you got it ironed out. I am still running 4.31, as I am in the middle of a documentary, and hesitate to change horses in the middle of the stream. Looking forward to V 5 when it's released, might just wait till then, as my system is rock solid now.

I don't blame you. Any rumors regarding major changes in v5? I always hear people say they wish there was a way to switch between a FCP style interface and the traditional one in Avid and with all the seemingly reactionary moves by Avid in the past year or so to capture more of the lower end professional segment back from the gains of FCP, would this be a possibility? I'd guess it'll just be to update for newer formats (HD etc.) and greater compatibility though...

HD is the big development in the next upgrade. More than one HD codec will be supported. Also, eliminating the "green dot" "blue dot" preview... apparently rt preview will simply be standard default if I read correctly. A new version of multicam support, some other bells and whistles. It's all on the board at www.avid.com. Of course, if you're running a mojo, there are more benefits, etc. etc.

Funny you should mention FCP interface. After the last FCP upgrade, my boss was howling and complaining that "nothing works the way it's supposed to". He sat behind me at his FCP suite in our studio, while I sat at my XpressPro suite. I turned around and said "What's wrong" he started complaing about all the new features and the way things were different, and I said... "Huh, that's the way it's done in Avid..." Shortly thereafter one of the Mags did a review, and the reviewer commented on how it was more "Avid like".

I guess it all depends on where you start from...

Crap - the problem is still there. I guess it was working fine when I first tried because I had just done a computer restart so my cpu and memory was "fresh" but now that it's been running all day, I just jumped back in the program and it's back to stuttering, not nearly as bad as before, but still stuttering some. Is my next plan of action to check my IDE connections or do you guys think that XP professional could really be different enough from XP Home that it'd run properly with just a simple OS upgrade? What could I check with my IDE cable setup just to make sure before I give Microsoft any money? Thanks again guys, as always...

I can't see how the difference between Pro and Home could cause
such a thing. Either it is a hardware problem somewhere or Avid
is just doing a crappy job (I have to say this is most likely).

Get a demo of Sony Vegas from http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com
and see how it handles it. That might give you a clue as to what
is to blame here.

Anyway, just make sure that on ONE IDE cable are not mixed
devices like a harddisk and a CD/DVD drive.

Do you know how to check if DMA is enabled for your drives in XP?

Rob - no i don't know how to check DMA. And I'm a Vegas user (4 and 5) and Vegas handles everything like a charm. Before that I used Premiere 6.5 which worked great with my system but the jump to Pro made things a bit laggy but nothing like this with Avid. Today's a very hectic day so I won't be able to check my cables until tommorow but, if one cord is going to both HD and DVD rom devices, what is my solution to get seperate cables so I can still have a functioning DVD drive along with 3 HDs?

I've personally wanted to switch to AVID but I was turned around when I heard that you have to basically dedicate your PC to the whole program and even then you may not be trouble free! So I've decided that if I ever needed a SUPER POWERED NLE that leaps bounds over Adobe Premiere Pro, I'd go with Apple (which I'm familiar with too <--- PC/MAC Computer King here).

To me, it sounds like your PC just isn't well equipped for AVID. If you're using RDRAM (which they've discontinued), then you're probably using a socket 463 Pentium 4 (which they've also discontinued). You don't have the benefit of Hyper Threading (BIG help for overall performance) and you're working on a much smaller FSB (front side bus). Socket 463 Pentium 4's run on a 400mhz bus while newer socket 478 Pentium 4's run on an 800mhz FSB or on next generation 1066mhz FSB (if you go with socket LGA775 P4's with PCI Express motherboards that is). You don't have dual channel memory (2x sticks of DDRSDRAM memory working in sync) which boosts performance by as much as 20%. Also, RDRAM is MUCH slower than current DDRSDRAM.

Now the hard drives are a different story. Not a whole lot of difference between Serial ATA and regular IDE connections, but I'm wondering whic hard drive do you have AVID installed on and how fast is that 30gb hard drive you mentioned? It's all good if it's a regular 7200RPM hard drive (though a Western Digital 120gb 8mb cache or more hard drive replacement would be better). Sounds like your wiring is ok, CD/DVD/CDRW/DVDRW/ect. drive on one channel and the hard drives on the other.

If you were to upgrade your computer and not go by minimum or recommended specs (which never are accurate) then here's your ideal PC:

3ghz Pentium 4 (minimum)
Radeon 9700 Pro (carried over unless going PCI Express)
1-2gb PC3200 DDRSDRAM
Current CD/DVD/CDRW/DVDRW/ect. drive
Current Hard Drives
Socket 478 or LGA775 motherboard

There, that should run AVID a LOT better! Otherwise I think you'll have to deal with AVID's sluggishness.

Jack - hmmmm, I'm torn then. Since I don't need to buy a whole new Dell system or anything, what do you think a new processor, motherboard and 1.5 gigs of new ram might run (VERY rough ballpark)? My HD's are all 7200 speed drives and have the larger caches (my Maxtor was the best they had available 10 months ago, 240 gig) so I think it's just the motherboard, processor, and new ram. The rest of my setup should be great. God, lagging performance really really bugs me. I don't understand though how Xpress Pro was run two years ago, as my now aging Dell setup was almost the best single processor system Dell had to offer.

I don't think it's your hardware specs if Avid is really slow with basic stuff. Even if it is your hardware:
A- Better hardware is only marginally faster... at best, it's the new CPU's clock speed divided by yours, plus 25% (for hyperthreading and little changes). A good guestimate of the new machine's speed is the new clock speed divided by the old one.
B- Your Dell probably uses a prioprietary case with a proprietary motherboard with non-standard motherboard standoffs. You need to check case/motherboard compatibility. Hopefully the power supply is ATX standard (some Dells are NOT ATX-compliant; the power supplies look the same but things will get damaged if you swap the wrong stuff in; new Dells are ATX standard).

XpressPro didn't run two years ago... it didnt' exist untill last year. Before Pro it was just Xpress... considerably simpler, and ran on NT systems. Avid takes FULL use of your system, the faster the system the faster it runs.

As to "dedicating the entire system to Avid" , sure, that'd be great, but I run Photoshop, Scriptware, and some other music production programs on my computer. I DON'T play games with it however, and try and stay away from "iffy" sites on the web. I turn off the connection while I'm working with Avid.

Version 4.6 by the way requires sp 2 for xp.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Roberts : Jack - hmmmm, I'm torn then. Since I don't need to buy a whole new Dell system or anything, what do you think a new processor, motherboard and 1.5 gigs of new ram might run (VERY rough ballpark)? My HD's are all 7200 speed drives and have the larger caches (my Maxtor was the best they had available 10 months ago, 240 gig) so I think it's just the motherboard, processor, and new ram. The rest of my setup should be great. God, lagging performance really really bugs me. I don't understand though how Xpress Pro was run two years ago, as my now aging Dell setup was almost the best single processor system Dell had to offer. -->>>

I don't know if you meant to sound kind of agressive here, but I was just suggesting a solution. Honestly, if it isn't hardware being too slow, then perhaps it is Service Pack 2 for Windows XP? That just crashes my system whenever I try to install it. If not, then I don't know what to tell you, AVID's rough like that. You should see all of the posts on AVID's own message boards about crashing, slow performance (your issue), and compatibility issues. I don't know why such an expensive product would have so many bugs, AVID should seriously think about this.

Hmm, all interesting suggestions - Jack - didn't mean to sound aggressive in the least, I truly appreciate your response, I was just thinking out loud and was a bit frustrated with what I spent money on after having easy performance success with other much smaller name brand NLEs and hoping to gain real applicable and professional knowledge in the AVID world....... not sure where to go from here.....

If Vegas and Premiere (Pro) are running fine then I can't see how
this could be a hardware issue unless Avid has some real problem
with some of your hardware. Personally that would be a good
enough reason to not use it, but ofcourse I don't know if you need
to be able to use it and such.

Again I doubt upgrading your system will be worth the money.
Getting an Avid compliant system might be better in that case?

....... sigh. Well, I had to pass up a couple of full time editing jobs in my area that paid very well because they required AVID editing skills for their AVID suites. I can edit in all the other big NLEs but just not AVID (and we all know how it's the most unique of the bunch). So as someone looking to advance my "professional" skills, I set my sights on learning AVID and purchased Xpress Pro (I figured with the min. system requirements, the processor speed was more critical than the RAM since RAM is so easy to update and my processor speed hit way above requirements not to mention running the other NLEs perfectly).

Bryan,

I'm not a computer whiz. I don't build them, and I try not to open them. I bought my editing station as a turnkey from DVLine, and get lifetime tech support. Worth every penny and IT runs Pro like a champ.

I say that so you know where I'm comming from when I give technical advice. (So often we all assume if we can send emails, we can rewire a mother board!)

My best advice (guess???) as to your course of action at this point would be -

UPDATE RAM - DDR is preffered, and running more ram won't HURT any of your other applications. Pro says 1 gig min, but 1.5 reccomended. It also says that more ram improves performance.

If nothing happens, THEN update your OS. I reccomend a clean install of XP Pro, not an upgrade, and don't forget SP 2

Again, this is something that will benefit you in the long run anyway.

Only you can determine the best cost/benefit analysis.

AVID does run at speed on small laptops, so I am convinced you have some issues with how your system is configured... but, as I said, I'm no tech guru... wish I was.

It seems with Avid, turnkey is the way to go. If you deviate too much from the spec, then you're on your own. Not the way it should really be in this day and age with solid hardware and software specifications, but that's the way Avid seems to be. If you want industry level jobs I don't think you have much choice but to go turnkey.

Aaron

Funny - I always saw the uber expensive turnkey systems in BH etc. and thought they were for suckers, like CDR's "specially designed" for music that cost much more than standard CDrs and are found in the music department rather than the computer area. I guess AVID is the exception. I'm going to try a RAM maxout which is 1.5 for my system and see if that helps, otherwise I'll send the RAM back and figure something else out.

There are people who build their own and run avid just fine. They have the ability to read the specs and trouble shoot conflicts. I don't have that skillset, so I went turnkey.

The price of a fully built out ready to go system from DVLine was less than the same parts I priced out individually at Fry's. I don't know how they do it.

It is impossible to test all PC combinations and "certify" them, so Avid picks (makes a deal with) a few top brands, and does just that. DVline was the first turnkey builder to meet Avid's specs. Most NLE's don't "certify" any combination.. they just say "minimum specs are xyz" if you have issues, figure it out.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Roberts : Now that I've started working with some of my DVX footage and AE files at 24p, the program stutters the video and audio for a few seconds before "catching up" and then playing the material correctly.This is with only one Vid track of an AE project which is 30 seconds long and a clip from a song -->>>

before you start throwing money around, you should do better testing to really understand what the problem is here.

all you have said so far is that you can't playback video from the timeline... that is the most simple thing you can ask of any editor, when the footage is dv format.

you said ae... what codec are the files rendered in? will native dv footage play back fine within avid, or is the problem just with ae files? does rendering within avid affect the problem? etc.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Roberts : Funny - I always saw the uber expensive turnkey systems in BH etc. and thought they were for suckers, like CDR's "specially designed" for music that cost much more than standard CDrs and are found in the music department rather than the computer area. I guess AVID is the exception. I'm going to try a RAM maxout which is 1.5 for my system and see if that helps, otherwise I'll send the RAM back and figure something else out. -->>>

Try this to reset you DMA settings on your IDE/ATAPI controllers. to DMA not P10.

Start-Control Panel-Performance/Maintenance-System-Device Manager-IDE/ATAPI Controllers-Primary IDE Channel-Advance settings-Auto Detection and DMA if Available.

Repeat for secondary IDE Channel. Then reboot.

This should help your hard drive read faster and get rid of the studders. Also Turn off any antivirus or background programs running. If fact you system shouldn't be hooked on line when you editing anyways. In addition turn off Windows update. Problems could also be caused by Windows SP2 or not enough PSU. Check you 5v and 12v rails to see if it more than 5% below what is needed. ATI 9700 pro uses a lot of juice to run. You might also update your ATI drivers and Bios to the latest to correspond to your SP2. Unfortunately ATI doesn't take full advantage of the 3d OPENGL as well as Nvidia. But for your problems it's more of a compatibility issue with hardware vs software.

Hey guys - just to complete this thread so those looming around the posts can hopefully learn from others' mistakes (when it comes to AVID, usually mine) - after posting on the official AVID forums and being told my system wasn't one of the approved AVID systems listed on the requirement side numerous times, a user came forward who had my same problem with an ATI card (Avid only certifies use of NVidia cards for the Xpress series, those Avid forum users seem to all stick strictly with AVID certified hardware - I guess all professionals). It turns out ATI put out new drivers about 20 days ago that specifically address stuttering or other video problems and updates for service pack 2. So, after installing these drivers my problem has been solved. The video and audio stay synced and playback is smooth even after the ill advised "gaming" test (play games or run other tasks for a while and then try and make Avid run correctly ;) )

As always, I appreciate everyones wonderful help and insight, it seems as though sometimes the solution is the most obvious (slaps forehead).

Bryan

Great, glad you got it covered. Often performance issues are due to updates made or missed on various drivers. One of the reasons why AVID "certifies" a combination of hardware, is because the know for a fact that it will run smoothly on that configuration. Because, in the PC world, configurations are almost limitless, it would be impossible to "certify" all possible combinations. This does not mean that a given system "won't run" Avid, it just means that Avid hasn't put that particulary system through the hoops.

Most Software developers don't bother to "Certify" any systems, they just list a minimum spec, and leave it to you to work out any conflict between the latest video cards, mother boards, service packs, audio cards, drivers-drivers-DRIVERS!!!!!!

(It's why I'm not a computer guy... Some people enjoy tuning up their machines. Then again, I never understood the guys in school who LIKED re-building a carbeurator)