I was watching a documentary about a rather controversial subject and at one point the crew just walked away because it became so disturbing to them. I do have to say that it was kind of disturbing. Two versions had to be made and distributed because some PBS stations would not air the raw version. Now, as a producer or crew member of a documentary trying to show the best and/or worst of the subject matter would you let the content affect your ability to keep rolling?

www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?threadid=35507

People are humans but you are supposed to be professional. If the crew were prepared and knew beforehand what they would see, then they should stick with it. However, psychology being what it is, something extreme could cause anyone to flee, throw up, faint.

And of course if it is a matter of self-preservation, no one can blame you for saving your ass.

Key words in there "If they knew beforehand." Kind of inexcusable unless the. . .um. . ."baditude" of what they'd really be dealing with was misrepresented or underplayed somehow. I was about to work on a documentary about swingers a little while ago, and about a week or two before the shoot (I was only going to be part it for one day of shooting), I caught this thing on VH1 that may well have been related to what I was going to be shooting, a doc about "the lifestyle". So when they get to the scene where everyone (crew included) is in the hotel room, and the two couples are getting ready to hump like little monkeys, I start thinking to myself "oh crap, am I gonna have to shoot stuff like this?" I emailed the guy/woman and explained that I could deal with people groping and grinding in a club (where we were supposed to shoot), but that I drew the line at shooting them while they pound each other. Call me prude, or crazy, but that's just nasty (not the humping, but the shooting of it). No offense to all you adult producers, you do what you wanna, but leave me the hell out of it.

So which one was the one where they walked? I couldn't infer from the hint. The porn one?

P.S. never got a response from the person I'd been in contact with on that project. Guess they didn't like my attitude.

I agree. I guess news teams that shoot wrecks and murders have to overcome that feeling as well, when is it just rediculous to keep rolling and when is it essential. I have experienced that when I did ride alongs for a show like COPS. There were times where I just wanted to stop and go sit back in the car but I had a job to do. I never went into anyone's house without permission because I think that's a place that everyone should be safe from public view at least without their consent. However, I didn't mind at all shooting DUIs because that's on a public street and it's just rediculous and wreckless. They deserved it!

"So which one was the one where they walked? I couldn't infer from the hint. The porn one?"

I'm pretty sure it was the porn one. I watched the show, and there's a point where the pornographers (who wanted candid footage) pull a surprise on one of their actresses that amounts to rape, and the documentary crew announces that's it, they're leaving. Frankly, I don't see how their continued presence would have contributed much to their report. I think I would have walked too.

Wow. Yeah, there are quite a few things I wouldn't work on, I think. They include things where I have to: shoot people humping, film war violence, endanger myself (any more than on a typical set), and I'm sure there's other things I can't think of now. Yeah, I'm a puss, so nuts to you.

I can add a couple to that list.

Violence against animals or children.
Copraphagia.

Do you mean shooting actual violence against children, or simulated? I meant the real thing. I'd shoot boogie nights 2, or some war movie, but not the reality of either. . .I guess it's different if you're a camerman on the real world or something, and the naughtiness just happens in front of you, as opposed to taking on a subject where there's no way it COULDN'T happened.

Absolutely clueless as to what that scientific sounding word at the end of your post means.

I mean in a documentary circumstance. Let's say we were doing a documentary on a family and then suddenly a scene of domestic violence suddenly broke out. I wouldn't be able to impassively witness that.

Copraphagia ... I used the scientific term so you could look it up if you want. It's icky.

There was an incident on Survivor a couple of years ago when a contestant nodded off and fell face first into a campfire. He actually burned his arms more by shielding his face with them as he fell. It was bad. The skin was rolling off of his arms like sheets. The camera(s) continued to roll to capture the event. Now, I saw a special on VH-1 called The Unreality of Reality exposing some of the secrets and terms of these reality shows. It was said that all shooters for Survivor were told to continue to roll on anything no matter what or they would be terminated. I think that there might be some litigation for negligence if not moral irresponsibility going on about that campfire incident. Besides just be decent, what difference could the camera operator have made if he had set the camera down and helped out. I'm sure they had medical staff nearby. They flew that guy out by helo shortly after and you guessed it, they rolled on that too!

Well, yeah, if there are medical staff on hand you want to actually get out of their way.

"We're #1 in a #2 Business!!!

Nasty stuff. Makes you wonder where some of these people's lives took that life changing turn and what caused it!

RB

hahaha I wonder if that's taken rick

I've walked away before.
In '97, I had a team of producers behing me wanting to make a Johnny Cash obituary. I was making alot of these at that time... Minnie Pearl, Farren Young, Bob Wills...
Thing was he wasnt dead yet. He was in the hospital with double pnemonia and wasn't expected to make it through the weekend. TNN just wanted to have it ready "should something happen". Man, it was bad kharma. I told em I'd happily come in during the weekend should somehting happen but I couldn't dig a man's grave that wasn't dead yet.
He went home a week later.

I'm not sayin I saved his life. I just felt more human than media at the time.

I remember watching a show that I believe was called "the beast", about a newspaper or something, where someone mentioned (and this someone was quoting a real news personality--sorry, details hazy--this was a long time ago) that if you were shooting during a war, in a situation where you had a vantage point where you could see an ambush set up for American troups, you weren't supposed to warn them, because then you'd be making the news, not just capturing it. Is it me, or is that sick? What about your duties as a human being?

The ethics surrounding journalism during war are pretty murky. A news crew that is perceived by the enemy as helping the troops of their homeland is going to endanger the lives over every other journalist in the war by making them a target. I'm not saying I agree it would be wrong to warn soldiers about a sniper, I just don't think the "right" answer is so easy to determine. Those guys take impartiality seriously.

Keith wrote: "Well, yeah, if there are medical staff on hand you want to actually get out of their way."

That's true, if they're close by. Crew tents and other staff had to be well away from the set for obvious reasons. I think part of the issue was that medical staff was not that close and the camera operator was right there but continued to roll. They used this in the actual show for dramatic purposes and the way it's cut it looks like it was taken care of real quick but with editing, some interim time was cut out.

Humanity takes a side seat to dream-chasing more often than not (unfortunatly)
We've all seen a horrible crash happen behind a live anchor who just keeps reporting as the photog keeps shooting while people need help from people. Trouble is, with a 3 man news crew there, there are no people there to help.
Basicly, drones keep on doing their jobs and those are the people that keep on making the same salary 10 years later.
It's the people that make life better and who get rewarded for it.

Grinner. Speaking of which. Here is an incident such as what you just described.

www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?threadid=34541

thats exactly what Im talkin about.
Humans would stop what they were doing, run over and help people out. Drones go for the telly.
Paying for a trophy that wont impress anybody is much more important to them than saving lives or even being helpful.

Like the story at the corner of such n such and such n such means anything to anybody.
It only does to the guy who aspired to be in movies but has settled for the 5 oclock news readin preompter for 40k a year.
Lets face it, nobody aspires to be a news anchor or a news photog. It's a stepping stone for some. Others settle for it... then become bitter or numb to the world around them.
Thats what we see here.

Same thing goes for Dick Clark Jr. asking me to do an obit on a dude who aint dead.
Just numb. Doesnt mena we have to be. Sometimes we have to remind those who have given up, there is still life out there.

"Lets face it, nobody aspires to be a news anchor or a news photog."

Now I wouldn't go that far. I know a few news shooters that just love their job or they damn sure wouldn't work that schedule for that kind of pay.

Check out the bulletin board on the site below to see just how much some folks like the news business. They may not like the politics but they love what they do.

www.b-roll.net

While love can be found in places not looked for,
I can't buy that anyone sets out to do this as their life's goal.
I was a camerman for a news station too once. Even did my time in front of the camera.
I saw it for what it was... temporary.

The point is, these people, due to bitterness or ognorance, have their priorities way out of whack when they see a story rather than an event that affects lives.

Sure their are great cameramen and DPs of the future in the news biz but have you ever watched the news and thought "wow, GREAT shot"? Or great delivery from a prompter minkey for that matter?
They'll go on to make great stuff no doubt.
I'm talking about he robots that do nothing to flatter humanity.
Doesnt have to be a photog or anchor who doesnt get it. I see cops, doctors and even our president who obviously can't understand what it is to be a person on the average joe society. It's either because they've never lived it or are mad about how they have lived it.
It's easy to see... the angry/power hungry cop, the doctor that is bad at best at his gig or our president who just doesn't know how to tell the truth.
I interviewed him once in his office when he was gov of TX. I guess you could call him that, he was gettin paid for it but it's not like he ever showed up for work... he was chasin the big gig instead. It was not unlike talking to a 4 year old. Ask a question.. get an answer to something else. Ask it agian, get a different answer but not one that follows the question asked.
Numbness.
Not knowing or caring whats going around around you. Thats the shame I'm talking about.
The erge to keep reporting as someone bleeds just yards away...
there is a fine line between ignorance and hoppin on the highway to hell.

Oh, I'm not saying the product is always great. In fact, it seems that news stations aren't as concerned with great photography anymore but just to get it to air first. I'm just saying that there are some people who just love that kind of work and life because they sure do live it which is probably why alot of them are divorced too.

dont get me wrong
every indusrty has it's heros just like every industry has it's posers.
Just seems like local news is the net beyong life's spetic tank.

Maybe thats why we only see bad news.

I knew a guy who said his goal WAS to be a news editor, period. That was his dream. Swear.

Hello;

Although I've never been in some of these situations, I know that I have limits to what I do and sometimes have run up against them.

Shooting births and cesearians - it can get kinda gross and if they were not under the influence of very strong drugs - painful as well. When it was disturbing I'd glue my nose to the monitor until it was "safe to watch the live event again. Monitors and eyepiece are great distancing tools.

I have put down the camera to help out.

Have told a producer to "never call me again" to work with a certain client because I believed the item being pitched was a scam.

Have turned down porno - it was my first work offer right out of college - and tempting.

I do know my limits and won't cross them. May be slightly poorer but I can live with that as I can live with myself.

Eric

Are there certain things you guys would not edit? You can't change what has already been shot, but are there things you would not asscoiate yourself with in cutting material.

My question encompasses any editing, i.e., cutting terrible footage (like war crimes) for a serious doc, or footage that you might not wanna have your name associated with (usually porn).

What would you not touch in editing?

I think historical content is different than entertainment. Similar to what you said, history has already happened and is real life situational content whereas "entertainment", mhmm, is staged.

Interesting thread. I would say that the day to day mediocrity in most of commercial cinema and television programming is the thing that I struggle with more than specialized weirdness, porn, and the criminally insane stuff. My qualms lie more with Steven Spielberg and Friends reruns, frankly. We're drowning in this stuff. I guess I'm wanting the medicine for the social ails to be of a more preventative nature, and for me it starts with the relatively braindead, gutless bullsh*t that actually is rather acceptable to most. How do I enter a medium and it's market that produces so much of so little consequence other than wasted resources? I want the experience and the resume. Do I work on inoffensive crap, even if it does bear talent and skill and a certain amount of artistry? I just can't see encouraging any more of this kind of thing in this world. What to do?

Just wanted to toss a little something in, here. Thanks to all of you and your openness. I love to see something beyond pure shop go down here at our home away from home.