Hello to all of you!

I will try to mount an 7inch lcd display to my tripod which fits good to XL2 . My question is if you know a good 16:9 lcd display which is also able to display 16:9 fullscreen and 4:3 letterboxed with black stribes on left and right sight of the picture.

Please help me.

Excuse my funny english I am from germany.


Thanks for your work


Thomas

this looks interesting, I havnt used it. Maybe it would work?

http://www.xenarc.com/product/700y.html

Jed

Jed

the one you linked to won't work..but this one will

http://www.xenarc.com/product/700v.html

Pricing is listed here

http://www.xenarcdirect.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamCat=6&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&iLevel=1

The only problem to sort out is the power...its spec'd at 12v, although it says it will run at 8-14v. this means an expensive battery setup or an ac to 12v transformer as it won't run off of canon batteries. Here's a battery I found that's cheap. It should work...but the xenarc monitor, being designed to run off a car battery, may not be the most energy efficient device in the world...so you might need 2...or 3 of these space age babies.

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=919

If you want turnkey deal...look at the nebtek.com page...but it'll cost ya.

good luck

Barry

The Panasonic 7" LCD has become one of the gold standards. I've had one for over two years, using it for both video and photo. It's excellent, and can be adapted to be powered from your Canon batteries, too.

Markertek has a very competitive price on it right now (http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=TC7%2DWMS1&off=89).

Hello,
is one of you using the NEB 70 LI (Panasonic) looks very smart.

http://www.nebtek.com/proddetail.php?prod=101-NEB70LI



Thanks for your help


Thomas

I think the Panasonic will be my deal. Hopefully I get it in Germany if not I have to order it in the USA.


Thank you very much


PS. If you know a cheap dealer who will ship to germany please inform me.

Thomas

thomas..the nebtek monitor is the same panasonic, and its main benefit is that you can use standard canon camcorder batteries...the regular panasonic uses an anton bauer setup which is costly if you don't already own it...any way do a search here at dvinfo...someone found the same adapter as the nebtek in the UK...I thought it was less money as well...I tried a quick search and couldn't find it..but maybe you can package up a panny monitor with this battery solution on your side of the pond.

Barry

I've seen a Lilliput 7" TFT LCD screens that sells for about $139 USD on ebay and other sites, but have no idea how good it is. I was considering one myself because I don't want to spend a fortune on one.

The specs don't seem that bad either for what it is:

194 x 122 x 26mm
336,000 pixels
100mVp-p
75 ohms
contrast ratio 200:1
brightness 400 nits
NTSC/PAL auto
9.5 watts
12 volts

These things are primarily sold as displays for in your car, you know, so you can play PS2 or watch DVD movies while driving.

Dennis, have you figured out a convenient way to power the Lilliput monitor?

I'm looking for a monitor to use on my Magiqcam (Steadicam knockoff) & can't afford the Nebtek or Panasonic.

Generally: do these 7" displays require 12v? Markertek has a nifty little doodad:

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?off=0

JS

Guys
I had a big thread discussion about getting an LCD monitor

Right there are 2 types of LCD screen/monitor. Whatever company sells the screen, they will either use 2 types of actual lcd panel.

One that has 336,000 pixels (240 Horizontal lines)

or one that uses 1,152,000 pixels (480 Horizontal lines)

Now which one would you want to use. More pixels means a sharper, clearer image remember!

The panasonic that everyone raves on about has only the fewer number of pixels. I had one on a shoot the other day, and it had the same sharpness (or lack of it) as a 7" cheap tft that I bought off ebay a few months back to use as a monitor. If it only has 240 lines that is less than half of the lines your XL2 is outputting - not really too useful for focussing then!

What makes the brighness is the backlight that the assembler of the screen uses. Ie Panasonic use the screen, put it in a case with a brighter backlight than some of the cheaper models, and hey presto its slightly brighter than the other screens.

Now I have the new higher pixel count screen, and it is much much better. It is sharper, it is clearer and much more useful. It has nearly 4 times as many pixels making up the screen, so it's kind of obvious that it will be better.

As regards to battery life. All of these screens are roughly the same, which again makes sense as they are all the same size tft panels, with the same size backlight illuminating them. They all consume about 9 Watts of power, at 12V DC input. This means they draw about 0.75 amps of current. If you get a battery that is rated 12Volts and 1500 mAh (milli amp hours) then that battery can theoretically drive the screen for 2 hours - 1.5 amps per hour or 0.75 amps for 2 hours. Anyone lost? You can get one of these batteries for around £5/$5

Now you are thinking how do I know what screen I am getting.

Well look for the number of actual pixels on the screen. If it doesnt say then be suspicious and assume the lower number.

Now one of the more widely known of these higher pixel count screens is the Lilliput 7" TFT touch screen - which is the one I have. I bought mine of ebay - and foudn it by typing in '7 Touch' into the search box. I paid £165 in the UK for mine, just to give you a rough gauge of whether you are being ripped off.

As a side benifit, this screen can also be connected to a pc and used as a touch screen to control the mouse!

The ONLY downside of this screen I have come accross is that it cannot seem to display a 4x3 image properly. It is a 16x9 panel, and displays the XL2's 16x9 output perfectly. However when I shoot in 4x3 mode (which I NEVER do so it is not really a problem for me actually) instead of putting black bars at the left and the right of the image, it stretches the 4x3 image sideways to fill the screen - can you visualise what I mean? I have trawled through the menu settings and can't find a way around this. If anyone knows about this great screen or indeed another tft screen that uses the higher pixel panel that can do this 16x9 and 4x3 switch properly then please let me know.

Anyway enough rambling, I hope this has been useful to at least someone.

Lawrence

Lawerence, thanks for all that info. I really wanted to hear from someone who had used (or is using) the Lilliput. Up until now I've been forced to pull focus using the mini35 and XL2 using the 2" VF so anything has got to be better!

As for the 7" Lilliput, there are actually different 7" models from what I've seen... the one I saw for $139 USD was actually 7.2" if it matters.

By the way Lawerence, what are you doing to mount the screen to the XL2?

I think lilliput do models that have both the low res and the higher res screen. If the res is important to you make sure you get the higher res screen - but make sure that it will also display 4x3 like you want.

I have developed a cunning way to mount the screen to the camera. I screwed on the accessory adapter that comes with the cameras on to the back, and used a big strip of strong velcro to mount the screen to the flat plate on that adapter. It is great because it actually makes it sit at the right angle. Even better is that the flat bit that juts out from the adapter - look at it and you'll see what I mean, is perfect for mounting a small 1.2Ah 12V lead acid battery - it powers the screen for about 1.5 hours

Lawrence

I plan on using the screw on camera accessory plate to hold my wireless video sender gizmo & addition battery packs, so I was hoping to use the shoe of the XL2.. I remember reading somewhere in these posts about some small extension rods from BH Photo that might do the trick.

Hmm
The only place I know of is in the UK. They are called B-Hague and they make all kinds of different tft monitor mounts - for jib arms, tripods, cameras etc.

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/Monitors%20&%20Btackets.htm

Scroll to the bottom, if you don't buy from them, at least you can see the images of different types of mount!

Lawrence

Lawrence, do you have any pics of your rig? I'll show you mine if you show me yours? (But for mine you have to wait a week or so until I get everything up and mounted)

Ah Ha! (Dennis makes discovery). I found that thread on mounting the Lilliput to the XL2 : http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34246

I dont, but I can take some. It probably wont look as pro as your mini 35 rig, but it works for me!

Lawrence

Don't be silly, it's the operator that makes it "pro" - not the camera ;)

I was in the market awhile back for a portable LCD but the horizontal resolution was just too low for critical focus and I opted for an 8" Sony CRT, but WOW! It sure doesn't take long for the technology to leave you in the dust.

While doing a search for the 7" Lilliput on ebay I saw that they also offer an 8" LCD with 921,600 pixels (1024 x 768)? Almost a suitable monitoring device for the new wave of HDV cams, unfortunately only in 4:3, but they'll probably update that tomorrow!

-Tim

Have a look:

Liliput 7" on XL2

http://www.twa-film.de/Xl2-1.jpg

http://www.twa-film.de/XL2-2.jpg


Thomas

Thomas,

Intriguing...how are you powering it?

Barry

Have a look:


http://www.nebtek.com/proddetail.php?prod=LIBA


Greetings Thomas

<<<-- Originally posted by Thomas Wagner : Have a look:


http://www.nebtek.com/proddetail.php?prod=LIBA


Greetings Thomas -->>>

2 questions:

1>what battery are you connecting to the adapter and how long does it run?

2> in other photos of the Lilliput it seems there is a reflective surface on the LCD. Does this cause reflections that interfere with viewing?

I know that viewing an LCD in bright lit areas is always an issue.....but I have 2 laptops at work and one has a standard LCD and the other a "Coated glossy" one. In an office building with light coming in the windows the "coated glossy" units is like a mirror. All I see is myself looking at myself!!!

The normal LCD, while darker, is still very much viewable.

Thanks!

Marty I haven´t tried to emty the batterys until now. My brother said ( he is an electronic engineer) the big canon batterie (6000 mA) runs minimum 3 hours with it.

I will give it a try the next days

The display works very well out and inside. I can not see me reflecting on the screen. But if you switch the screen off there is a light shiny shimmer on the screen.

The screen is not too sharp. It has 1100000 Pixel but the RGB-signal coming out of the camera is not so good. Anyway it is okay.
I love to work with it. And it is not very expensive. I payed about 280 € for it. You can connect it to your vga graphic-card on your pc aswell with an outstanding picture.

IMPORTANT: The screen displays not 4:3 in correct aspect ratio. I only work in 16:9 so it doesn´t matter to me.

Greetings from Hannover


Thomas

i have the same nebtek konverter.

it is available in different versions. the version he and i use use the xl-1 lithium-ion batteries that are used to power the xl-1.

theoretically i think it works that way:

the Li-Io batteries have 7,2V the converter converts it to 12V.
so when something needs 1000ma (1AH) at 12V it looks something like that:

the batterie has 7,2V and 5000ma so it could power a device with 7,2V and 1000ma for 5 hours.
the converter now converts the 7,2V to 12V. that means 5000ma/12*7,2 = 3000ma
so you could power a device that needs 1000ma at 12V for 3 hours with that 5000ma batterie (someone may correct me when i'm wrong :-)

Thomas,

Is the 7" Lilliput monitor that you have the touchscreen, VGA version or the normal car version? I'm curious as you said the image coming from the camera looks blurry (blurry or pixilated?)...Is that because the monitor is essentially higher in resolution than the camera? I'm looking at both versions deciding which to go with. The normal car version is considerably less money here. But if the output on the vga version isn't that great (when used with the xl2) then it might make sense for me to start with the cheaper version.

Barry

Hey Barry. Which models are you looking at exactly? I am about to purchase the 7" VGA touchscreen version and I had the same feelings as you. I want to be able to see clearly if I am in focus and the comments about "not too sharp" are vague and a little scary. I also was thinking of trying one of the less expensive but don;t know which one to try. IF you can tell me which one you are looking at I'd like to research it also.

Thanks,
Marty

Marty

It's a little confusing, because the lilliput dealers are mostly in china. I found one today in texas that carries the entire line.

http://stores.ebay.com/Translinks-Store_Car-Monitors_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQsclZallQQsotimedisplayZ2QQtZkm

the two basic offerings in the 7 inch boil down to the 318 model (similar to 218) and the 619..which is the VGA touchscreen version reviewed at:

http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews/lilliput/index.php

According to this article the resolution is actually 480 x 800...which should look really good with the xl2...and the article says it looks great with dvd input.....so then thomas goes and says it doesn't look so good...so I am confused....

Thomas?

Barry my version of the Liliput is an all in wonder. It has 2 Video ins. VGA in and touchscreen. The VGA in is really sharp but the 2 Video ins are not as sharp as the VGA is. But I think this is easy to understand. The VGA picture has an resolution of 1024x768 pixel. My XL2 Pal version has an output of 720x576 pixel 4:3 and I have forgotton the 16:9 resolution but anyway it is less than the VGA resolution. And all LCD Displays have only one REAL resolution in this case 1024x768. All other resolutions have to be calculated we say in german (interpoliert) out of the REAL resolution of the screen. So they can not be as good as the REAL resolution. But anyway the picture is very fine and detailed. There is no point in beeing not satisfied with it. The picture out of my 30" LG lcd tv-set is better but I think it is to big to mount it on the Xl2.

IMPORTANT: There is absolutely NO problem in focusing the picture with this monitor!

Now one question from me again. How are you cleaning the lence of your XL2. I am afraid to do something wrong.

Greetings from Hannover Germany (The weather is horrible)

Thomas

To confuse things more the one on that ebay site list the 619 as being able to handle several modes.....4x3 16x9 and so on. However Thomas stated somewhere that his did not do 4x3 at all. So are we all talking about the same exact model? I also have vendor who is selling a VGA version of this monitor that doesn't have touchscreen and it is $20.oo less. He claims it is also less reflective as the touchscreen is actuall a thin layer over top. He says in his opinion the non touch is better suited for our application in the video world. BUt I can;t find a model on Lilliput site that is the full 2400x480 that isn't the touchscreen model.

Thomas,

Would you recommend the 619 with touch screen or now that you have used it is it overkill for video? Would the 1400x234 LCD be ok? Or do see a mojor improvement even if the video is not shown at it's native res on the VGA screen?

(this would all be moot if Canon would have just put a 3.5 LCD on there!)

Marty I think they write a lot of crap in this ebay auctions. For example: they wrote about my Liliput 7" that it has a resolution of 1600x1200 pixel. This is definetly not true. In the owners Manual of my Liliput it is 1024x768 and if you try higher resolutions there is a message on the screen whitch says resolution not supported.
Or resolution overflow. On the other hand the really poor owners manual says: One S-Video and two RGB-Video Inputs. There is no S-Video input. They show a photo of an different connection cable with S-Video but it do not exist. You can switch through the possible inputs. And they are Video1, Video2, VGA and no S-Video.

And it is right the monitor is able to show an 4:3 picture, but not with the right aspect ratio.

Greetings from Hannover


Thomas

In all fairness the company I am dealing with is not an ebay company but an automotive specialty store. The guy who runs it is sure that the he has the 619 (touch screen) and another model that has not touch screen but he is sure that it is the same res as the touchscreen. He is checking directly with Lilliput now. On lilliput website they do not list a VGA non touch model. They list one that looks just like the 619 except all silver with no black at all. It indeed looks exactly like the 619 except the specs say 1400x234. So as soon as I find out I'll be buying from him.

Thomas......Do you really feel that there is not a significant glare from the 619 you own? Because the only reason I am considering the non-touch model is that the guy who runs the automotive video shop claims it is less reflective. That is the only reason I am considering it. IT is also only $20 less than the touch whuch leads me to believe it is the same res. I just want to be sure.

Marty there is a glare, but it is the same on my lcd TV, on my two 19" lcd monitors from LG, my 19" lcd monitor from Samsung and my notebook. The important question is if it will cause problems when you shoot outside. Until now (okay it is not summer) I had no problems in-or outside working with this monitor. But if there will be maybe in summer under horrible conditions a situation causing problems do not forget you have your viewfinder, or you can buy an Video Hood (have a look at:)
http://www.hoodmanusa.com/H700.asp

to get rid of this problem

Greetings

Thomas

Thanks. I know all LCD's have glare to some degree. But it was eluded to me that the Touch Panel screen had more than a normal LCD would. That is why I am asking. If you feel that is in line with most LCD and not excessive then that is good enough. Just out of curiosity have you seen or heard of the model I was telling you about that is not a touch screen but is still 2400x480 resolution? Lilliput site only lists 1 VGA screen and that is the 619.

Thanks,
Marty

I have never heard about this 2400x480 screen, maybe they do not sell it in germany. But I have seen a Marshall 7" display cost about 4000 $ this was really impressing. But not for my budget. I am working from time to time together with german tv producers they have very good equipment, one of them his name is Mark showed me this Marshall screen. But anyway he owns an Sony Digital Beta Camera and an XL2 and he told me that he likes more to work with his XL2. He said picture quality is the same but the handling from the XL2 is better. I had a good laugh cause I think this Sony Beta Digital cost with his lences about 50000 $.


Have a nice day


Thomas

Thomas

Just wanted to return to my question for a moment...Can you eleborate on your comment that the image didn't look so good when coming from a video source as opposed to from the computer? Was the image blurry, pixelated...in other words...worse than you would expect from a video source, or simply not as defined as the one coming from the computer (which of course is much higher in resolution)?

Barry

Barry I am not exactly shure what you mean. I try to explain with my words (please do not forget my english is not so perfect). It is not pixalated. It looks not so sharp like in your viewfinder but only a little little bit. A little little little bit washen out but minimal. We speak here about nuances not about an unsharp or blurry picture.

Greetings

Thomas

<<<-- Originally posted by Thomas Wagner : I have never heard about this 2400x480 screen, maybe they do not sell it in germany. But I have seen a Marshall 7" display cost about 4000 $ this was really impressing. But not for my budget. I am working from time to time together with german tv producers they have very good equipment, one of them his name is Mark showed me this Marshall screen. But anyway he owns an Sony Digital Beta Camera and an XL2 and he told me that he likes more to work with his XL2. He said picture quality is the same but the handling from the XL2 is better. I had a good laugh cause I think this Sony Beta Digital cost with his lences about 50000 $.


Have a nice day


Thomas -->>>

2400x480 is the number of pixels not the res. Sorry. here are the specs from Lilliput directly.

Model Number. 619GL-70NP (XGA)
Key Specifications/Special Features:
Screen size: 7 inches digital
Ratio: 15:9 wide TFT screen
Resolution: 1,152,000 pixels(2400X480 dots)
Color configuration: RGB stripe
Video system: PAL/NTSC
2 Video inputs plus 1 Audio input
VGA input (USB interface)
Touchscreen display (optional)
IR remote control
Full function OSD control (Multi-language)
Audio output: Speaker built-in
Video input signal: 1.0Vp-p, composite video
High resolution and no radiation (better for eyes’ protection)
Computer display/S-video/DVD/VCD/Security system/Navigation system compatible
(Rear view camera connectible)
Mount type: Dash board
Power input: DC 12V
Power consumption: 9W

vs the non vga model:
Model Number. 618GL-70NP
Key Specifications/Special Features:
Screen size: 7 inches (diagonal)
Ratio: 16:9 wide TFT screen
Optional 4 display modes: 4:3<-->16:9 <-->16:9 Zoom<-->4:3 For CCTV
Resolution (H x V): 1440 x 234 = 336,960 pixels
Color configuration: RGB stripe
Video system: PAL/NTSC/SECAM auto conversion
2 Video inputs plus 1 Audio input
IR remote control
Full function OSD control (Multi-language)
Audio output: Speaker built-in & earphone jack
Video input signal: 1.0Vp-p, composite video
Reversible screen: X-turn (mirror picture) & Y-turn (flip-down picture) available

High resolution and no radiation (better for eyes’ protection)
DVD/VCD/Security system/Navigation system compatible
(Rear view camera connectible)
Mount type: Dash board
Power input: DC 12V
Power consumption: 9W

That is what I am referring to. I thought you were the one to point out the higer res of the ouch screens to start with Thomas!?? I am thinking of someone else?

Either way the actual screen res in 2400x480....like a regular PC or mac res. IT is the number of pixels.

Marty the non VGA looks better to me.

4:3 16:9

I think the resolution in RGB mode is the same like the VGA model.

Greetings Thomas

Nebtek makes an adapter that is designed to convert regular canon, sony or panasonic camcorder batteries to 12v for use with LCD monitors. The image shows a small DC cable with a plug on the end coming from the adapter. Does this actually fit the Lilliput? Steven? Do you know by chance or is this strictly for the NEbtek?

see here:

http://www.twa-film.de/Nebtek.jpg

Hi Thomas,

That's a real nice conversion... Do you want a job working for us?
We did one recently for Rion Gonzales in Canada, but he wanted the PRO Box addition as well.

There is one thing I think everyone should consider before buying a Lilliput (I have posted this reply in other discussion circles as well):

This is just to correct some of the discussions I've seen on the forum about the Lilliput 7" monitor. I took some time looking into this and verifying all the facts before posting. Because if what I was reading was true, I definitely wanted to add these monitors to our product list. Unfortunately... it was not.

None of the Lilliput 7" monitors have close to a million pixels. The highest they have is 384,000. When they give the RGB at 1.1 million they are talking about dots. Three dots (red, green and blue) equal one pixel. Any company saying 1.1 million pixels RGB is trying to mislead the consumer as to the true resolution of the monitor by listing dots as pixels. Take the 1.152 million figure and divide by three... your back at 384,00 pixels.

Unfortunately I am beginning to see an alarming trend develop. Even large corporations (like Panasonic) are beginning to use this listing in order to not have their product look inferior to their competitors. It does not mean that there is any better resolution... it is way of mis-representiong itself as something it is not.

By the way, we compared a top of the line Lilliput 7" to the Panasonic for 3 days straight. Although it had a very nice picture it still looked soft in comparison to a "Panny".

-Rob

I bought the Panasonic TC-7WMS1 from NebTek. It is equiped with a Canon battery mount and the image is very clear - for me ideal for focussing.

They also supply a nice bracket which fits in the hotshoe.

I am truely impressed with this LCD.

Hi Nico,

Thanks for the good word... contact me if you ever need anything else.

-Rob

Hi Rob,

I did not realize that you also cruise along this forum. Good to hear from you - my LCD works like a dream - sending you e-mail.

I bought the Canon HC-3200 system case for the XL2 and the LCD fits perfectly as well as all my other assesories - even the 3x wide angle lens!!

Regards,


Nico

Thanks for the job offer but I think there a few thousand miles to much to come to work in time every morning. Anyway I am not any longer pleased with the quality of the Liliput Monitor. I have done a lot of outdoor work in the last month. I think now the Liliput picture is not bright enough. I am thinking about buying the panasonic hopefully without paypal problems HaHaHa. (insider joke)

Greetings from Germany

Hi Thomas,

Just think of the exercise you'll get from a swim like that 5 days a week.

I'm sorry to hear about the Lilliput, especially since I just ordered 2 from China for demo. Oh well... ces't la vie.

I spent nearly 3 days trying to work out the bugs in our Shopping Cart program. US orders were fine, but the International orders were kicking my butt. I think I finally solved the problem.

I also have dealers in the UK and the Netherlands if your interested. I know the Euro is high against the dollar right now, so you might save the most buying directly, but let me know if you want to try the contact names for any of our dealers.

-Rob

Netherlands will be fine for me.
Please post the address.

Thanks a lot


Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I'm looking for the Panasonic. I could buy it directly from you, instead of a reseller in the Netherlands.
Can you please give me the exact version i need for the XL2 with the Canon Bat. mount etc.

Thanks.

I bougth this Denver 7" for my XM2.
http://www.denver-electronics.com/pages/webside2.asp?articleGuid=7843&menuGuid=5386&subMenuguid=5394

It works well in all modes 4:3/16:9 stretched/16:9 letterboxed

Paid 1800 SEK which is about €195 or $255 Usd (todays rates)

For this you get:
monitor with tv-tuner
composite input
mono audio input
ac-adadapter
12v car adapter
mount (it has a tripod-mount as well)´
batterypack (just supply your own batteries 10x1.2V)
headphones
remote control

Hi Thomas,

Sorry about the late reply... I've been on set for the past week.

Our dealer in the Netherlands is:

Cam-a-lot
Bernd Lesscher
Duivendrechtsekade 80
1096 AH Amsterdam
+31 20 6940004

We also ship to the Netherlands if the current Euro vs. USD makes it cheaper for you.

Best regards,
-Rob