What would be a good way to monitor FX1's output in full resolution?

Mostly interested in studio monitors, but field monitor suggestions would be of interest as well.

I have in mind 1920x1080 plasma flatscreens, but those are EXPENSIVE - seems like around $8,000 for 40" ones... is there anything more affordable??

I think the monitor size must be 40" or larger because one can't really see the image/focus details on small HD monitors...

Alex,

I have been looking at:

23" Apple Cinema Display ($2000)
Decklink HD-SDI card ($600)
Decklink HD-SDI to DVI HDlink ($700)

$3300 is not bad.

That is the least expensive solution I have found. It is not 40", but it is pixel for pixel. The only thing I am wondering about is if the color is accurate enough to do color correction.

If you're thinking of going with an LCD monitor, also check out the Samsung 243T. It can be had for about $1900 and is 24" 1920x1200 native and a higher quality LCD panel (brighter, better contrast) than the Apple 23" Cinema display. I have one of these on my office workstation and it is the shiznit. It has both DVI and VGA/RGBHV inputs on it... I'll dig into the manual when I get back to the office on monday and see if it supports component RGB input with sync-on-green. If it does, then you could use this monitor with a component to RGBHV cable to connect it to the FX1. If it says it supports the proper sync, I'll see if I can borrow a component to RGBHV cable (I know someone who has one) and I'll hook it up to a 1080i source and see what happens. This could be a nifty solution as the monitor also comes with a standard VESA mount on the back so it could be easily mounted anywhere you want if the included stand doesn't do it for you and having 24" of 1080 HD with all the pixels there to look at would be just perfect.

For the purpose of viewing HD video, 23-24" is too small, sorry...

I'd say 34" is the very minimum that I may settle for - only because price-wise 40" and up is really prohibitive...

My current pick is Sony KD-34XBR960, which is 34" CRT HDTV that accepts both 1080i Component AND iLink (FireWire) output of the FX1 cam.

I just tested KD-34XBR910 (predecessor of 960) in Circuit City store with my FX1 cam, and it's not that bad size-wise, colors seem OK etc. BUT for some reason there was a pronounced yellow/red halo on the right side of the vertical lines of the image. Could be that 910 is worse than 960; or that its CRT guns were misaligned; or maybe FX1 does output such signal itself - which I could not see on my 27" Samsung LCD (1280x720 resolution.)

Anyone else tested FX1 with KD-34XBR960? Results?

What about location field monitoring for HDing with the FX1?

What might be a nice and reasonably priced option?

How large can we get a screen to workout framing and contrast on a portable situation?



Carlos

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : For the purpose of viewing HD video, 23-24" is too small, sorry...

I'd say 34" is the very minimum that I may settle for - only because price-wise 40" and up is really prohibitive...

My current pick is Sony KD-34XBR960, which is 34" CRT HDTV that accepts both 1080i Component AND iLink (FireWire) output of the FX1 cam. -->>>

Well, I guess the 34" Sony would be a nice choice too (and cheaper than the LCD) -- at least for use as a studio monitor.
And the question still remains of what to use for a field monitor. The 30~34" CRTs don't make sense and the 24" LCD is more practical in terms of size and weight, but still not the most ideal by any means. There are HD field monitors available from Sony and Panasonic and others for use with the "professional" HD cameras, but so far all of these that I've seen cost more than the FX1 or just about any other solution that has been brought up here.

For a field monitor, the best would probably be a smaller 13 to 17 inch LCD set with component (or firewire) input that does at least 1280x720 res and accepts the 1080i signal. It would at least be good enough to manage focus in most situations and monitor a lot of the details.

Jeff,

Did you have a chance yet to test your Samsung LCD (243T) with the FX1 ?

I am very interested to hear the possibilities for those of us that need to maximise our preview capabilities for colour correcting etc.. when moving our editing systems up to match the (superb) image from the FX1.

I think here in the UK it will be a while before HDTVs (true 1080i !!) are going to surface at reasonable prices. The PC monitor (maybe CRT for better blacks) route might be the only (low-cost) alternative at the moment.

Anyway, thanks for any more news on this subject.

Dave.

Field monitor: HP L2335.

Large enough (23") to check the focus. Has 1080i component in. Also has VGA and DVI inputs (it is actually a PC monitor.)

Great picture: its resolution is 1920x1200.

Great price.

Relatively compact so it could be hauled around in a large hard-shell plastic suitcase that we already have.

Seems to work fine so far.

Quirks: "normal" mode (zoom OFF) shows picture slightly squeezed horizontally. Zoom ON shows undistorted image, but you lose about 15% of the image on the left and on the right. So we use Zoom ON as a safe margin view :) (although keep in mind that it shows the vertical dimension of the image as-is in any case.)

The best picture quality is going to be a CRT. The Sony CRT's are native 1080i- look awesome.

Fellows,



Shouldn't we concentrate on field monitors, that can be battery powered and taken on location?

The monitors used in post should be much easier to solve.



Carlos

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez : Fellows,



Shouldn't we concentrate on field monitors, that can be battery powered and taken on location?

The monitors used in post should be much easy to solve.



Carlos -->>>

Uh, why?
The poster specifically said he was mostly looking for a studio monitor. Use a nice SD monitor in the field.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Tiffee :
Uh, why?
The poster specifically said he was mostly looking for a studio monitor. Use a nice SD monitor in the field. -->>>

Well, he said was interested in both types, studio and field.

Using an SD monitor with an HDV camera would be an option, but probably not the best one.


Carlos

I don't see the advantage of using a HD field monitor. First of all, I wouldn't trust anything other than a CRT to use for quality monitoring. A HD CRT is heavy - 40-50lbs for a small one and I don't want to lug that around. The only real field monitor I know about that is portable/battery powered and HD capable is only 450 lines of resolution and costs $5000 and is only like 9". I would much rather have a nice 13" SD monitor with 16:9. And save the HD monitor for post.

I have been trying to find a solution that would enable a modern PC CRT monitor display 1080i signals...

So far, I haven't built such a solution (no guarantees at the moment !) but there does seem to be tantilizing signs it might be possible:

1) Choosing a good PC CRT monitor (low-cost, good blacks / rich colour repro. native 1920+ rez); eg, Samsung 957P

http://www.clickonit.com/Monitors/Monitor_CRT_19_inch/180698.php

2) A sync converter to transcode the YUV component into RGBHV (VGA) 15-pin...

http://www.keydigital.com/lprodi.asp?Ic=KDctca3

or (for Europeans... translation on right)

http://www.spatz-tech.de/spatz/cscpro.htm

3) Crossed-fingers and of course the 1080i source - the FX1 / Z1...!

Please let me know if anyone has tried something like this ?

Or any comments of wisedom welcomed.

Thanks,
Dave.

I'm a big fan of CRT monitors, DV or HD. Better ways of checking out the image.

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Tiffee : I don't see the advantage of using a HD field monitor. First of all, I wouldn't trust anything other than a CRT to use for quality monitoring. A HD CRT is heavy - 40-50lbs for a small one and I don't want to lug that around. The only real field monitor I know about that is portable/battery powered and HD capable is only 450 lines of resolution and costs $5000 and is only like 9". I would much rather have a nice 13" SD monitor with 16:9. And save the HD monitor for post. -->>>

Agreed on both questions. CRTs are better, but are also heavy and drain a lot of battery power, so you also have to carry batteries around. Carrying a car battery around on a common baggage carriage may provide power for camera and monitor on many situations.

The HD capable monitor you refer to is the Pana BT-LH900? It's really very expensive ($ 5,599.95 from B&H).

Options we have are the Pana TC-7WMS1 (no underscan or blue-only; but affordable and has 16:9) and some Boland monitors (they seem to be interesting for field use and reasonably priced).

What's the 13" SD you were thinking of?


Carlos

Guys,

I have had a reply from the German suppliers of the 'Spatz' YUV-to-RGB(VGA) converter (see previous post above)...

Good news if you're on a tight budget ...

(quote from email reply)...

"Just to confirm - this will allow me to display a YUV 1080i signal (from Sony FX1) on a high-res PC CRT monitor (eg; Samsung 957P) with good results?

-yep,very good

I need to be sure it will work - has this been tested on any particular models of PC crt monitors ? Any recommendations ?
(as I have not bought the CRT monitor yet !)

- Will work with any PC monitor as the scan frequency is quite low"


I think I may take one of these little gizmos and have me a low-cost native 1080i CRT (probably 19") for close-field editing preview and colour-correction...this could also work for locations where a PC monitor is nearby (they're lighter than most HDTVs atleast) !

US folks can probably use the Key Designs device as it looks near-identical (all links are in above post).

seeya.. (time to do some shopping!)

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Elston : Jeff,

Did you have a chance yet to test your Samsung LCD (243T) with the FX1 ? -->>>

Well, I haven't got my hands on an FX1 yet as I'm not really interested in buying anything just yet. However, I did attempt to connect the 243T to an HD set-top box with component output running at 1080i (Samsung SIRTS160). And it did not work... The monitor doesn't support the proper sync for component input and lacks R and B color info. So we need a component to RGBHV or component to VGA converter. A really good one is available from RAM Electronics (www.ramelectronics.net) for a couple hundred $. That would still make this LCD or other similar LCDs a viable option I would think. I have one of the Audio-Authority component to VGA converters and I tried that with the 243T and it works great. However, the Audio-Authority one only supports 480i/480p, but it worked at 480p out of both a Toshiba progressive DVD player and that Samsung HDTV receiver.

The Key Digital converter from Ram Electronics plus the 243T LCD can be had together for about $1900 if you do some shopping around. Not bad for a 24" display that can support the full 1920x1080 resolution. One issue I did run across is the control for the image scaling can't be set manually, but only in software via the monitor driver. What this means is that when you plug the display into a source other than a DVI connection that can send instructions to the monitor, it will scale the image vertically to fill all 1200 lines rather than letterboxing it at the exact 1920x1080. So in that respect, this isn't the best monitor choice.

IMO, for a field monitor, I think the best choice would be a 13" to 17" LCD TV with component input. You will sacrifice the full resolution, but it's still far superior to the viewfinder or flip-out LCD on the camera. In studio or on locations where you can wheel a monitor around on a cart, then the best bet is a CRT either a nice consumer model ($750 to $950 for a 30" 16:9) or if the budget allows, try a studio grade monitor. However, for a consumer camera I would have a hard time justifying a full studio monitor at studio prices.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply and useful insight.

Here in the UK, options are still VERY limited for HDTVs :0(
I have done some more research today and have found a dealer in Germany that can supply a YUV-to-RGBHV converter (at 1080i)- I believe it is the same as the Key Digital device you mentioned.

I have now ordered this and a reasonable quality (& very cheap)
19" Viewsonic CRT PC monitor. This is only 4:3 but I am willing to live with either a 'stretched' or 'letterboxed' image, as long as ALL pixels are there! The main purpose is to give me a true 1080i viewport while editing / previewing, etc...

Total cost is...
£285 (Converter)
+ £165 (19"CRT)

£450 !!

I hope it will work - but I have been given the option to return the converter if it doesn't. Then my next option would be a 1920 native LCD (eg, HP L2335) ...that's nearer £1500 though ! :0(

I think it will be a good 6-12 months (atleast) before the HD consumer choice improves here in the UK (ie, low-cost CRT HDTVs)

Thanks again,
Dave.