My buddy claims you can record to a VHS tape by hooking up the cam to the computer, via firewire, and the the cam to the VHS, via RCA/S Video.

I have Vegas 4, if that matters. Anyone done this? The VCRs I have at my disposal are all rather cheap/old, and none have S-Video in/outs, though they do have RCA. Is there an extra component I'd need? Is it cheap?

Thanks.

Yes this will work as long as your camera supports digital in and
direct analog out (not all do this). It is the same system as using
the camera for a monitor out (to TV or broadcast monitor).

Oh, well, then I forgot mention it's an XL1s. My bad.

The XL1 allow you to do this Josh. Simply plug it in your computer through firewire, then connect your VCR in the XL1 through RCA cables. Put your camera in vcr mode, ask vegas to preview on an external monitor, press record on your VCR, and play the vagas's timeline.

Thanks! I'll try it.

Wasn't there some issues with getting the proper setup when doing this though. As in does the XL-1 video out have a signal at 7.5 IRE? Or do you have to go through a proc-amp?

Sounds like a good question. I suppose you could raise the setup on one of the custom presets the approriate number of notches, if needed (I have no idea). Does anyone know how much to raise it to equal a 7.5 setup? Or do you need to raise it at all? I certainly don't have a proc amp.

Or is there something I can do in Vegas 4 to make it all come out correctly?

Does Vegas 4 have scopes?

View --> Video Scopes

Open up a filter that raises brightness. Raise the brightness until the vectorscope shows 7/8IRE. This is only for analog dubs where 7.5IRE setup isn't being added by your consumer equipment.

You can apply the effect to everything if you add the effect to where the video preview window is (make sure to enable it).

I think I had a whole thread devoted to setup and Vegas. I still don't get it. I'll be able to tell about this setup business if everything looks unnaturally dark on the VHS copy, right?

The thing to remember is anytime DV is going to hit analog you must ask yourself if set up is being applied somewhere. It could be applied through your camera, in your VTR or in your NLE. I honestly don't know if the XL-1 applies it or not, it might be switchable on the analog outputs like the DVX.

Definitely not switchable. . .I do know that.

Hey, guys, thanks! I tried it today, and it works!

It SEEMS the setup is fine, don't need to do anything in the NLE, but that's only according to the TV I watched it on as it was recording. . .could be wrong.

Another thing, and very important: DO NOT SIMPLY PLAY DIRECTLY FROM THE TIMELINE!

You won't get audio this way! With Vegas, you have to "print video to DV tape", without a tape in the camera, of course, record in the VHS machine, and then you'll get sound.

That's correct indeed Josh, thanks for pointing that out. Also if
you where to do a play from the timeline you might drop frames
here and there as well which a print to "tape" should not do.

Ah, and we learn something new every day. One day, it'll all be telepathy.

Although you do always waat to use "print to tape" to get the best finished results, you can send the audio out to your television from the timeline during the editing process. I don't have the program in front of me, but i think you need to go to the preferences section and there are audio options under output tab, or something like that.

I don't think that's right, though. I remember reading in the help files that when previewing, the firewire doesn't carry audio, so to get audio to your monitor/VHS, you have to do the "print video to DV tape." Don't quote me on that, though.

I just checked it now, and you're right Josh. You can only ouput the audio through the computer, not through firewire from the timeline. I forgot that my computer audio is already output to my entertainment system, thus I hear it on my TV speakers.

Ok, that's what I thought. I hope we all learned something from this thread; I know I did. I've been wasting time, tape, and play heads by making unnecessary dubs to miniDV so that I could then dub to VHS from them. Now, I am wiser. I am Bass the White, no longer Bass the Grey.

Ok, dudes, what about the reverse? Can I go from VHS to Vegas 4?

I bought this rather expensive RCA to S-Video adapter, because it seems my camera will only recognize things coming into it via S-Video (talking AV stuff here, DVD players, and what have you--not firewire). Somehow, even when I hooked the RCA cables from the VCR into the adapter, I still wasn't seeing anything.

Tips? Advice?

It's a pretty old VCR/TV combo, by Symphonic.

That should be completely unnecessary, I have done composite
(RCA) input with the XL1S lots of times. Works perfect here.

However, you cannot go the reverse with the XL1S in one step.
You need to record the VHS (or whatever analog source) to DV
tape first with the XL1S and then capture that into your computer.

With the new XL2 you can do this in one step.

Ok, that's fine. I tried to do that too, however (go to a miniDV tape, that is) and failed--couldn't get anything to read in the camera. I tried hooking a DVD player up to the XL1s once, again got the signal to show up in the EVF, so why doesn't it work with my VCR? Grrr.

Are you sure the output from the VCR is correct (ie, the internal
curcuitry in the VCR is OK?)

Uh. . .how would I check? Is there any way to discern if something's wrong? I've used this VCR for watching movies, recording miniDV to VHS, and recently, straight from Vegas to VHS, but never to go FROM VHS to something. All signs point to the VCR being fine. Do VCRs have to be newer to output stuff? I don't know how old this one is, but I'd guess not too new.

Well, some TV's take the composite or S-VHS line as well, so that
would be a way to check. Or your VCR might have an input and
output set and you might be using the wrong one. In theory it
could also not output a signal on those ports, but that would be
really highly unlikely.

What are you playing back from this VCR anyway? Would it happen
to be a macrovision protected tape?

Umm. . .I don't think so. Does that mean the little tab is broken off? It's not a "real VHS tape" It's part of a short film that I'm trying to degreade the quality of by going from miniDV to VHS, and then back.

Something about this just hit me....if you have the S-Video connector in use, it will kill the output via composite (that single RCA video connector). Make sure you pull the S Cable off the deck and then see if you are getting your composite output.

I may have misread part of this thread but that gets quite a few people from time to time. S gets priority.

As an option, look on ebay or someplace for a used Canopus ADVC-100 or similar firewire converter. You should be able to find one in the $100-$150 range easily these days.

Plug the analog decks into it via RCA or S (see caution above) and the firewire end into the PC (or Mac). Bi-directional. There is a switch that tells the box which way the signal is flowing.

Very useful for folks in your situation. Also, some decks like the DSR-11, DSR-25, etc will accept analog and do this conversion to and from firewire.

Happy editing.

Sean McHenry

Wait. . .I'm confused. I don't have a deck at all. This is my list of available devices: NLE/firewire, Camcorder with S-video and RCA ins/outs/whatever, and VCR/TV combo with RCA in/outs only.

I know some guys at a rental house who'll let me do it for free if I can't get it to work at home, so I won't need that converter dealy.

Sorry, for the purposes of this discussion deck could constitute any tape playing device...

Sean

Ok gotcha. I still think I'm goin' to that rental house tomorrow to do it there.