Alan, you should be OK for rock concerts unless they are REALLY dark. Night exteriors might be more problematic, depending on the levels. You can generally get an image but in very dark places there will be a lot of noise in the picture.

I think the PD-100A has the same DVCAM abilities as the PDX-10, but have never used one. The PDX-10's 16:9 mode is unusually good and will not be matched by either the PD-100 or PD-150. They should produce images in the 16:9 anamorphic format, but the resolution will be lower.

Boyd & Chris,

Thanks a lot for your input. I will try to get my hands on one PDX10 and test it in previously mentioned situations before I can really decide. It seems that it comes down to this:

CONS:
vertical smear problem
not ideal low light performance
can't control gain manually

PROS
16:9 native
XLR audio
size
price!


Starting with PDX10 and adding a PD150/170 later is probably a good way to go - especially since I need something soon, but can't spend a fortune on it.

Oh, and by the way, if someone has a link to some video footage made with PDX10, please post it...

Thanks.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alan Ford :
"1. Some people say it performs bad in low-light. 7 lux, right? Is it acceptable or simply poor?"

Why don't you go to camcorderinfo.com and see their camcorder tests. Lots of camcorders tested at 15 lux. You can compare... You'll also need to test the camcorder yourself. And remember to set the gain to max 12dB or max 6dB before testing, because at max gain the black noise on the screen is disturbing IMHO.

"Would it be okay to use it occasionaly at, let's say indoor rock concerts and for some night exterior shots without extra lighting? What are your experiences?"

Concerning night exteriors: Will there be movement in the video? You'll learn to use the words "still" and "slow"... "Don't move, I'm recoring some video" ;)

The PDX-10 is a daylight camera. I have tried to use it in the middle of the night and I can tell you that

1) some star/moonshine reflecting from snow is not enough: you'll record true black. You need the sun, a fire or electric lighting of some sort.

2) if there is a small 1-2 feet wide campfire then the people next to the fire (3-6 feet away) will be visible when using slow shutter speeds. Nice red/orange glow... And I mean SLOW shutter speeds. 1/3 seconds - 1/6 seconds. You'll get some nice audio and an interesting slideshow - unless, of course, the people are moving a lot.

3) in the city things get simpler. A clear blue night sky, snow, some lamps on the yard, street lighting etc. will create very very beautiful images. But you'll probably need 1/25 sec shutter speed (or 1/12 sec - 1/6 sec for more brightness). It's a very nice effect, though. A night time interview might be possible if the interviewed person stays relatively still. Any auxiliary light and manual exposure (of course) would be useful. But if you want a bright picture at full 1/50 sec or 1/60 sec then you'd better be under a pretty bright lamp or have proper lighting equipment.

I'm happy with my PDX-10, in daylight. But when the moon rises... Remember that it's a daylight camera. You won't be able to do night time interviews or shorts without some extra lighting or slow shutter speeds. Things change, when the subject is on a stage with proper spot lights and all...

You could add that "night" in post, right?

Other things to consider: the PDX-10 does not have very a wide angle of view. If you are going to shoot inside then you'll probably need a good zoom-through wide angle adapter. Most DV cameras share this problem.

A big plus are the manual focus buttons: Auto/Manual/Infinity + PushAuto button. I just love the "push auto" focus button... And the size of the camera is great! You can do shooting relatively unnoticed...

If you are interested in a pd10, I have some screen grab here, take a look.

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=Offtopic;action=display;num=1084424677

Lots of good pointers here. One thing though - the PD100 has been discontinued for some time now (c. 18 months). It's a good 2 stops more sensitive than the replacement PDX10, but then it has bigger chips with fewer pixels. It's a trade...

You seem to have done your investigating well Alan, and your pro and con list is pretty good. All the cons are deleted at a stroke if you go straight to the 150/170, but of course the size/price barrier is a problem.

Bottom line has got to be this. If you want the best 16:9 for the dollar, the PDX10 is you cam, period. If this is just a passing fancy then the 150/170 is a very much better camera in a whole host of ways, almost too many to mention here. And lookie here - the VX2100 is just a few dollars more than the PDX...

tom.

the pd100A is an excellent camera in low light but like someone mentionned it it's discontinued.

Hello guys,
After scanning these forums for the last week, I decided to purchase a Sony PDX10P. I must admit I appreciate the fact that the folks here dont seem too biased about their camera brand or model, willing to not only voice the pro's, but also the cons.

I'd just like to thank those who have posted, especially in this forum. Im looking forward to the relationship with my new camera, although i must admit, ive had it three days and have partaken in but five minutes of footage. Nope ive never been a sucker for manuals before, but i guess spending 5k (Aus) demands it :)

Thanks again,
Tim.

Congratulations Tim, glad you found the forum helpful. The PDX-10 manual is not really all that great (like other Sony manuals I've seen), but it does recite all the features and can serve as a starting point. Let us know how the camera works out for you, we'll be here if you have questions along the way!

hey Guys what camera u think would be best for surf footage and underwater photography?????

Probably not much in it for 4:3 but if you want 16:9 then PDX is the way to go.

They both will fit a standard u/w housing (the PDX shoe for mic can be removed) so they have the same footprint.

Having one PDX already, I thought about the 950 as a 2nd camera, but decided on getting a 2nd PDX10.

Regards p

I don't know what the pricing is like in your part of the world, but at B&H the price difference between the PDX-10 and TRV-950 is about $300. The microphone, XLR box, DVCAM recording, BW viewfinder, additional menu options, black finish and especially the higher quality 16:9 are well worth the price difference.

Right. If that's the price difference for you as well, Jarrad, definitely go with the PDX10.

I agree. The unique selling point of the PDX10 is the excellent 16:9 that even gives you a half-decent wide-angle (equivalent to 39.5mm is still photo terms). The 950 doesn't have a USP in my book. It's pretty, has a lovely side screen but does come with it's fais share of video and audio compromises.

tom.

It is the DV Rig Pro...Doesn't mention working with the PDX but says all pro-sumer cams.

http://www.dvtec.tv/_wsn/page2.html

And it looks good at least on the website.
B&H has it for $600.00 and man I am tempted. Love my PDX10 but it is killing my shoulder and ruining my ping pong game. Anyone heard anything on this rig?
I do a lot of weddings and thus receptions!!!

thanks,
Al



I know there is another thread but wasn't sure anyone visited that one anymore.

I've had a PD100A for about 4 years, and am now needing to move on to a newer camera. I really like the 100A, with the exception of a noisy motor, it's been an excellent camera for me. The PDX10 seems a logical replacement-- though i've read alot about its not-so-great handling of low-light situations. I do quite a bit of verite-style documentary work, so this is a concern-- however, if its performance is comparable to that of the 100A, then I don't see it being a problem for me.

Does anyone have experience with (or knowledge of) these two models? Is the PDX10 worse in low-light situations than the 100A? Are there other factors that I should consider in moving from the 100A to the PDX10? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

This is kicked around every so often here, but more recently with regard to the TRV-900 vs TRV-950. I don't think many people here have personal hands on experience with both cameras, but there is anecdotal info.

I think you'll find the PDX-10 needs more light, based on what I've read. But how much?... not sure. I have a PDX-10 and a VX-2000 and can offer some actual data there. I recently shot some tests, and observed that the PDX-10 was roughly two and a half f-stops slower than the VX-2000. Perhaps this data point will help?

I really like my PDX-10, and almost never use the VX-2000 anymore, but in a dark documentary setting you might have issues (I don't do that type of shooting myself). Now I think you will be able to film in most of those places with the PDX-10 - I've shot by campfire light for example. But the noise level will probably be higher than the PD-100a. The 14-bit DSP offsets this a bit, and at +6dB gain I can't really detect any added noise.

IMO, the real strength of the PDX-10 is the high resolution 16:9 which is just about the same quality as its 4:3. If you don't do much 16:9 work then there probably isn't a lot of reason to get a PDX-10. However it does give you DVCAM, hi-res BW viewfinder, nice big bright LCD panel, XLR's and the same mike as the PD-170. And you could buy two of them for about the same price as one PD-170.

Does this help any?

I've seen this Sony 37mm 0.45X Wide Angle.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VCLSW04&DCMP=BeFree_DF&HQS=VCLSW04
Not sure how new it is, but it is .45 and zoom through as far as I am aware.
Would be great for what I need.
Anyone used or tested this lens with the PDX or 950?
Could anyone test it, maybe some screen shots with it.
Also for people with the expensive sony 2x converter, how much quality is lost? How much as a percentage would you say? Is the image softened?
The 2x converter I have now made by raynox is not usable it's so soft.
Many camcorders that have 37mm threads are cheaper consumer cams, so the lenses are made for those cameras. Do you think buying a lens with a larger thread would be the better option? Do you still get the same field of view?

Haven't seen that .45x before. I have one of the "titanium" .45x wide lenses however and am happy with the wide field of view it gives. There is noticeable barrell distortion at full wide, but I sort of like the effect.

I also have the Sony VCL-HG2037X which I believe is the "expensive sony 2x converter" you're talking about. I think it's excellent personally, very sharp. I don't know how I would rate it as a "percentage" though? Note that there are no filter threads on the front however. You can't zoom very far through it without severe vignetting, but that isn't an issue for me, and I think it's pretty much what one would expect with a 2x lens. I suppose a lens designed for a larger camcorder might let you zoom out farther, but that would be kind of a monster in relation to the PDX-10...

Are any conversion lenses for the PDX10 NOT zoom through? Afterall, all the zooming happens in the camera, not like a digital still camera sticks's its lens out.

Ronald, the issue is not that the camera lens will bump into the converter, but that focus will not hold when zooming through the entire range. Additionally, depending on the lens, you may get vignetting of the image such that the corners fade or get chopped off.

So yes, you can press the zoom button while the converter lens is installed, but depending on the particular lens, the resulting images may not be optimal.

Has anyone tried 'smooth interval' recording? With a large memorystick can you record many frames before to memory before the camera dumps to tape? Other comments?

Hi Jeffrey, sorry which model is it that can do this?

PC330 and the just announced PC250, not sure about other models

Hi Jeffrey,

Unfortunately I doubt that you will get many responses on this topic here since we're primarily oriented towards the 3-chip Sony camcorders: the TRV-950, PDX-10 and the new HC-1000. I know the TRV and PDX don't have this feature, and from what I've read the HC-1000 does not have it either. You might want to try some of the other sites that discuss the smaller cameras, such as camcorderinfo.com (http://www.camcorderinfo.com).

When I take the lens cap off, it just swings around sometimes hitting the camera body, thus spoiling the sound during a take. Even with pulling the lens cap string tight "to fix it" (as suggested in the manual, page 25), the cap still moves around. Unlike some other cameras, the lens cap has no clip that would "fix it" more firmly to the hand strap.

Has anyone found an alternative to this? Are there any other lens caps that can be used?

Sure. Remove it completely. That's what I do on all my cameras.

I thought about that but is there a way of removing it so that I can re-attach it again (I don't want to cut the string)?

Does anyone know of a lens cap that fits over the lens hood? I used that on movie cameras before.

Huh? You don't need to cut anything. The string has a loop at the end and the carrying strap passes through it. Pop open the velcro under the Sony logo and open the strap. Slide the string off, replace the strap. Am I missing something? Is your camera different than mine? It ain't rocket science! ;-)

I'm not aware of any third party caps, but I wish there was one for the wide lens hood. The only reason I use the short hood at all is to cap the lens. So actually my cap is rarely separated from the hood. I just pop the whole thing off - cap and all - and put it in my camera bag.

Hey, thanks. That's helpful. Since there's no third party thing available I think I'll just have to go and make my own lens cap.

First the questions.

1. Can any standard mini-jack mic (not an XLR connect) be used (for normal live recording) with the mic input in the front of the camera? The only mention I found in the manual is on page 117 in reference to audio dubbing and the low quality ECM-S80 is called for.

2. What does "plug-in power" mean in reference to this mic input?

3. Does anyone have the specs of the OEM ECM-NV1 mic (freq range, etc)?

4. How much additional drain on the battery results from using the phantom power on both XLR inputs?

Now the comments.

A. I didn't find any mention in the manual, but after playing with the XLR inputs, I discovered that Ch1 is the left channel (Ch2=right). Not sure why this isn't mentioned or labeled on the unit accordingly (did I miss something?).

B. I have found the Rode NT4 one point stereo mic to be a wonderful performer.

Thank you.

I know this has been talked to death, but has anyone actually tried loading the pdx10 firmware into the TRV950.
I read a lot of messages of people talking about it but haven't read anywhere that it actually works.
I'm interested in trying it but I'm not sure I want to be the first.
If the NVRAM does get screwed is the repair covered by Sony Service's flat rate ($269 or somewhere around there)?

Hi there,

There is one thing about the PDX10 which I am not entirely clear on.

The PDX10 shoots in 30i, right? OR 60i? But it can't switch to the other, whatever it may be, right?

Now, I lent my PDX10 to a friend who tried to magic bullet the footage he shot. He got artifacting. I beleive that one of the requirements of MB is to shoot in 60i, correct?

I'm assuming that if he shot with a shutter speed of 1/30th or 1/60th, it wouldn't matter to much, for MB? It would look the same? Or WOULD it make a difference?

Perhaps I should ask this way out question, which is probably going to confuse me more. If I shoot in 1/60th, that is not going to simulate 60i, or will it?

Thanks for the replies.

The PDX-10 shoots standard, interlaced 30fps video which we usually refer to as 60i. Now you can change the shutter speed to 1/30 sec and that will essentially write the same data to both interlaced fields which reduces your vertical resolution.

I haven't used magic bullet, but have worked with DVFilm Maker a lot and believe it does pretty much the same thing, which is creating a pseudo 30 fps progressive effect. They emphasize that you need to shoot at 1/60 sec shutter speed for this to work properly, and I'm guessing that would be the same for Magic Bullet.

To answer your question, the PDX-10 always outputs at 60i, however the shutter speed setting can affect the results if you're deinterlacing in post. Make sure that you have locked the shutter speed at 1/60 and are shooting in full manual mode. My guess is that your friend didn't do this and he tried to deinterlace footage that was shot at 1/30 sec or some other shutter speed. You should get very good results if you shoot at 1/60 sec.

Well in my google search I couldn't find any solid links, just theory. So I think that it really can't be done.

In addition, the TRV950 has a still camera while the PDX10 does not, hmmm... where would that be in the memory map.

I guess you really need Sony's blessing to make this work or at least someone who know's the equipment from the hardware all the way down to the firmware.

with the price of these, you're better off upgrading to a real PDx and selling the TRV.....

Cliff, maybe I don't understand you? The PDX-10 has the same still camera features as the TRV-950. It doesn't have bluetooth or the internet capabilities though.

Look at the user manual in the 'stickie' at the top of this forum for more PDX-10 info. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22998

Regarding the firmware "brain transplant," I wouldn't attempt it unless you consider your camera expendable....

Yep, I misspoke. I assumed that since there was no flash, there was no still camera.
There's too many differences between the two cameras that make me not want to try it.
If I could get a Sony repair facility to try it, I'd go for it. I suspect that they wouldn't have enought knowledge to undergo the transplant.
It would be nice if it were like a BMW that you could switch control chips for better performance.
If the cmos were accessible, I'd consider just swapping the chip, thereby keeping the original firmware intact, if it didn't work.
Oh well, I put far too much time researching this already.
Over and out.

does the pdx 10 NTSC come with two lens hoods one large one small

Thanks

Vince

Mine came with both large and small. That was about mid-year 2003.

Yes, the camera is supplied with both the regular and the wide hood. The regular hood has a removable cover but the wide hood does not. See page 4 of the brochure for included accessories:

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Professional/docs/brochures/dsrpdx10final.pdf

Also worth noting that the wide hood comfortably houses a number of wide angle adaptors. I use the Century 0.65x which has a filter thread and a removable cover. The cover seems to be the only benefit of the smaller hood.

True. The wide hood works well with my .45x wide lens also - no vignetting. I even use it with the Sony high-grade 2x telephoto. It doesn't shade the lens at all, but does a nice job of concealing the ugly silver aluminum finish :-)

thanks guys

Vince

WTB Sony PDX 10 must be mint W/low hrs.


Thanks
Vince

Since were on this topic, I was watching MTV's Making the Band, with P. Diddy and lo and behold I saw during an episode that one of the guys was shooting with a PDX10.

I dunno if the whole show is show with a PDX10, but it would be interesting to find out.

Do these two share the same body and mechanics?

I own a pdx10 and am looking at an underwater housing that is certified for the trv950, but not the pdx10...

Without the XLR box, the PDX is the same body as the 950. You might check with the diver members here about this, or visit one of the dv diving websites.

The only difference that comes to mind is that the TRV-950 has a pop-up flash for still photos but the PDX-10 does not. It has the mounting shoe for the XLR box in that location.

You might try starting a new topic about underwater housings for the TRV-950/PDX-10; it has been discussed here in the past.

I thought they were the same too, but the company selling the housing says the pdx10 is incompatible, although the trv950 is ceritfied.....

This is the Sony SPK-DVF5 which is only sold in Japan.

I did a scan here and found one person who has used the case sucessfully.

Anyone else using a pdx10 with one?

John,

"This is the Sony SPK-DVF5 which is only sold in Japan"

Just a quick searh on the Net would appear that;
The UK sell them online, as do Canada, so do a few other places.

Also UK Ebay have one at the moment,
http://search.ebay.co.uk/Sony-SPK-DVF5_W0QQsacurrencyZ3QQsocolumnlayoutZ3QQsonewuserZ1