Here the Babelfish from an German Website:


Übersetzung für http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Sony-bringt-Retro-Knaller--DSR-PD175P-DVCAM-Camcor-7817.html (http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashcam.de%2Fnews%2Fsingle%2FSony-bringt-Retro-Knaller--DSR-PD175P-DVCAM-Camcor-7817.html&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen)

Its an Z5 HDV-Camcorder as an original DVCAM Modell !

Sony: DSR-PD175P (DSRPD175P): Product overview: Germany (http://66.163.168.225/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=de&lp=de_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sony.de%2fbiz%2fview%2fShowProduct.action%3fproduct%3dDSR-PD175P)

I think that this URL might be more useful, since it's off the Sony site.

Why have Sony done this?

I've had a close look at the spec sheet and it seems to be a Z5 in everything but HDV capability. I was hoping that as it only shoots in SD it might have matched the legendary PD170 in the low-light stakes but no - it's the same as the Z5, suggesting that the CMOS chips are in fact the Z5's - 1440 x 1080 (effectively).

So what are the advantages over the Z5 if you only want to shoot SD? Do we presume Sony get better SD out of it than out of an internal downconvert from the Z5 in HDV mode?

tom.

As was mentioned in the Area 51 thread on this topic a while ago, this makes no sense. The Z5 already does DVCAM and SD, so it's obviously just a firmware hack to remove HDV ability. Makes no sense at all to me, unless they're pricing it dirt cheap as a loss leader, then "upgrade" users to HDV via firmware later on at exorbitant cost.

Just don't get it, myself.

It is really bizarre. The PD-175 is not on the US site, but if you look at the PD-170 page you will see that it has been discontinued: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-dvcam/product-DSRPD170/

Please note: Effective immediately the DSR-PD170 is discontinued.

So evidently Sony feels they need a replacement in order to still have a low-cost DVCAM model. I have edited the title of this thread to reflect this. Well, the PD-150/170 had quite a long run. Hail and farewell!

No, they just want CMOS everywhere so nobody will remember how good was the picture of a CCD.

Bizarre, a good word. Might have better served us by being called the Z3 as that Sony alpha-numeric was up for grabs and appears to have been missed.

Anyway, looks like the camera is in permanent down-convert mode (between chips and tape). Good job it isn't locked off in the 4:3 mode as well, or people would notice how the PD170 gives far better pictures.

No, they just want CMOS everywhere so nobody will remember how good was the picture of a CCD.

My personal journey has been VX-2000 > PDX-10 > Z-1 > EX-1. Still getting used to the EX-1, but so far I am really happy with CMOS and have no interest in going back to CCD. But I don't shoot weddings or other things which would be a problem with the rolling shutter.

I needed to edit some old VX-2000 footage last week and crop it to 16:9 to match the rest of the project. It looks better than I expected, but I've gotta say I don't miss that camera at all today. OTOH, the PDX-10 footage in 16:9 looks terrific.

The PD-150, PD-170, VX-2000 and VX-2100 were great cameras in their day, but a 4:3 native camera is a bit of an anachronism today.

Product page from Sony UK is here: Sony : DSR-PD175P (DSRPD175P) : Product Overview : United Kingdom (http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowProduct.action?product=DSR-PD175P&site=biz_en_GB)

Still no listing at Sony US or B&H photo. I wonder if they will release this product in the US?

Since the other thread was closed I'll post my question here:

Maybe I'm missing the big picture here. Someone care to explain why they'd release this camera now?

My thoughts:
1) is this a European model only? Maybe there is a market for these things there that doesn't exist here in the states.
2) the strength of the pd150's/170's was their legendary low light performance. why muck around with that if you're going to release an "upgrade"
3) uhhhh.... uhhhh.... what? why?
4) I've got a FX7, if I open it up, snip a few magic HDV wires and rebrand it as the FX7.5 which of you would buy it?

Sony's corporate philosophy seems to be: "Market domination through infinite segmentation."

How many models do they have these days?

Someone care to explain why they'd release this camera now?

Sony is the only one who could do that. I don't get it either. But I'm wondering, is there some kind of spec for a government contract (BBC?) which calls for a standard definition DVCAM camcorder at this price point? Sometimes companies will position a product so it fits the description of an item the government is buying in large quantities.

But I'm wondering, is there some kind of spec for a government contract (BBC?) which calls for a standard definition DVCAM camcorder at this price point? Sometimes companies will position a product so it fits the description of an item the government is buying in large quantities.

I've got no clue about that, but it's a darn good theory. I can't think of many other scenarios that make sense.

I tend to buy Sony products but is it just me or does Sony get ripped more in the forums than other camera manufactures? Is that just my perception or do the rest of you guys think so too?

I think (considering the vast numbers of cameras Sony has in production at any given time) that they get little stick really. I find it's JVC that gets more bad press per camera produced.

I would agree that JVC gets the bad rep more than Sony, but that's also because I come mainly from BMX/skate video boards, where kids think that a VX1000 is superior to everything...

Sony's marketing philosophy seems to be: if there is a market for it, we'll manufacture it. This got me confused a lot at first, but over time I undestood that just because they manufacture inexpensive stuff, it doesn't mean they can't make good quality products (concept a.k.a. you get what you pay for).

Another obvious point: as opposed to some of us here, Sony does not believe that the SD era is over with the arrival of HD. And while the mainstream US media went or is going HD, other parts of the world can't afford the high price, so for them SD is there to stay for years and years to come.

Good job, Sony!

Yeah, I just let my friend that rides BMX borrow my vx-2000 with a death lens, he was really excited. I told him he's not going to want to use that camera after seeing the footage from an HV-30, but I was wrong, for some reason he still really likes that camera.

I have the only working demo unit in my area now. REALLY looks like a z5, and it doesnt fit the CF card recorder. I'm gonna put it beside the Z5 later and have a go.

whatis the proce on pd 175....

will the z5 do the 4x slow mo they talk about on the pfd 175?

supposed to work with the cf unit according to lit. fill us in on what you find!

I have the only working demo unit in my area now. REALLY looks like a z5, and it doesnt fit the CF card recorder. I'm gonna put it beside the Z5 later and have a go.

This leaves me (practically) speechless. I absolutely do not get it. Two years ago a 16:9 sd camera like this would have been fantastic, right on time.

I have a Z5U, and after looking at pictures of the PD-175 I think it looks more like an FX1000 with XLR. The back of the PD-175 is the same design as the FX1000 which would require the MRC1K to be mounted on the shoe. Now there is little difference between the Z5U and FX1000, the PD175 is by all means a mash up of those two cameras.

Two years ago a 16:9 sd camera like this would have been fantastic, right on time.

Two years ago? I'd say more like 5 or 6 years ago. I got a VX-2000 in 2001 and did a big 16:9 project in 2003 which was digitally projected on a 45' screen. I wasn't happy with the VX-2000 quality for that and felt anamorphic adaptors had too many issues. So I got a Sony PDX-10 which did very nice 16:9 (although only 1/5" chips). The PD-175 would have been just what I really wanted back then.

Today I fail to see why it would be any better than just using a Z5 and downconverting, unless there's a big price advantage.

Its confirmed, the rear is the same as FX1000. The rest of the body is exactly the Z5. I did a candle light test last night and it look very much the same. Light smear is no issue of course. Could not test the jello effect due to time limitation.

Low light wise is quite impressive but I have not uploaded the stuff. Returning the Camera today.

To be fair this is a perfect camera for the EU market a few years ago, especially UK. Afterall we've had 16:9 SD for years now yet have had limited choice for cameras (unlike the US where SD has stuck to 4:3 and HD has become popular faster). As a result companies bought Z1's and used them in DVCAM mode. I bet that 95% of all Z1s owned by media companies in the UK have never recorded HDV.

Thats why this camera makes sense, its just a bit late lol. Now days its makes more sense to jumps straight to the Z5 unless this camera comes out at an incredibly cheap price.

I still use my Z5 mostly in DVCAM, very rarely use it in HD as the clients dont want that.

This leaves me (practically) speechless. I absolutely do not get it. Two years ago a 16:9 sd camera like this would have been fantastic, right on time.

Yeah they should have done a 16:9 SD version of the Z1 when they released the Z1. If they had it probably would have outsold it in the UK at least

...as opposed to some of us here, Sony does not believe that the SD era is over with the arrival of HD. And while the mainstream US media went or is going HD, other parts of the world can't afford the high price, so for them SD is there to stay for years and years to come...

I may be in a bubble here but most of the pro's I am talking to are delivering very few Blu-ray discs. Many clients have HDTV but very few have HD players so it makes sense for broadcasters to go HD but for most of us it means shooting in HD/HDV/AVCHD/XDCAM, etc and then down-rezing to SD for delivery. I know quite a few production companies in this area that are shooting DVCAM on a regular basis and I could see them being interested in this camera for b-roll or getting into tight spots even today. When I mentioned on here a few months ago I might replace my PD170, I had many members of this forum contact me with interest in buying it. Yes this camera would have been great if it was around in the past but I think SONY will see enough sales to make it worth the effort even in today's HD focused market.

That's fine, but why wouldn't you want to buy one of the Z-series cameras and either shoot in SD or downconvert? As others have said, the only possible arguments might be if the PD-175 does better in low light or is significantly cheaper.

From the posts above it doesn't sound like it will do better in low light and US pricing hasn't been released so I don't know what to make of that either. Personally, i have embraced HD and will not buy anything lower res again, but I can see this appealing to some of my competitors that are doing quite well staying in SD land...

and US pricing hasn't been released

Actually they have not announced the camera at all in the US (unless I've missed it), which makes me wonder if they will offer it here? Sony DVCAM camcorders (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-dvcam/)

Interesting how they are listing the HD1000 and S720 on the DVCAM page however...

...Interesting how they are listing the HD1000 and S720 on the DVCAM page however...
I never did understand that either. I remember the pre-release docs for the HD1000 listed it as a DV/DVCAM/HDV shoulder mount but it is not. I am guessing they decided to scrap the DVCAM in favor of getting it released at the price point they hit. Who knows?

Sony's corporate philosophy seems to be: "Market domination through infinite segmentation."

I want to see that on a t-shirt!

Maybe, just maybe, Sony knows something regarding the blue ray market, perhaps, that"something" may not be happening, so it brings out a native 16x9 sd camera.

I'm pretty sure it's not really native SD Lee. The lens and chip-block assembly will be straight from the Z5 to save on production costs and the camera will be in permanent downconvert mode, onto tape and out the Firewire socket.

Yes, Sony's own brochure confirms the chip and nearly everything else is the same.

http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/pdf/Sony_DSR-PD175P_Presentation_-_2009_August_26_EU.pdf

The PD-175 will NOT be released as a NTSC model. The main market for the camera is developing countries such as Africa and India where HD is still a long way off. These developing countries are all PAL countries. Certainly in Europe if you sell off old DV and DVCAM kit to a dealer much of it gets shipped out of the country to these markets where the demand for SD products is very strong. In most of Europe and the USA the demand for new SD only products is very small compared to the demand for HD and HD ready products.

FYI, I find my Z5 does as well or better in low light than my VX2000 (w/.65 WA lens). The lens on the Z5 is also wider than my VX w/.65 WA adapter. Really satisfied with it so far. I like the feel and handling of the VX a lot better though. VX/PD is truely a classic.

Mark Goodsell

Interesting you say that Mark as Sony themselves rate the VX a lower lux camera (the Z5 is rated at 1/25th sec, so 'cheats' by a stop).

The VX with a 0,65 converter lens is 3.9 mm, so it's a shorter focal length than the Z5 at full wide-angle.

C'mon, you must like the Z5's top screen a lot more than the VX's tiny side screen, or isn't this what you mean by 'handling'?

tom.

Sony themselves rate the VX a lower lux camera (the Z5 is rated at 1/25th sec, so 'cheats' by a stop).
I know what you mean. But to me, the image looks better indoors in moderate-to-dimly-lit situations. Colors are better, noticably less noise.

The VX with a 0,65 converter lens is 3.9 mm, so it's a shorter focal length than the Z5 at full wide-angle.
I'm just reporting what I see through my camera. Maybe the VX LCD and VF is cutting some off that the Z5U is showing. I guess I haven't intercut the same side-by-side tripod shots. But the view 'appears' a little wider than the VX w/ .65 lens. Maybe that's what I should have said.

C'mon, you must like the Z5's top screen a lot more than the VX's tiny side screen, or isn't this what you mean by 'handling'?
Actually, that's one thing I wish Sony would have done different. It yields little room to mount accessories on the front hot shoe and still be able to unfold the LCD. Plus, anything on the L of the cam, won't work very well. For example, I always have a Blimp/furry mounted on my VX. Can't use it on the Z5 due to the room it takes to open the screen. It's also more work to unfold. The VX was nice in that if you needed, you could transition from the eyepiece to the LCD quickly and easily during a shot (if you needed to) like say you decided to lift it up and shoot a crowd, or go down to ground level. This could be done w/o even hardly jiggling the camera. That would be hard to duplicate with the Z5. The PWM-EX1 LCD fold-away arrangement is pretty decent, or Canon's AH. But, it's a small quibble and there probably isn't a 'perfect' way anyway. I use the VF probably 85% of the time.

What I meant by 'handling' is the balance and nicely padded strap. All my comments are purely anticdotal, obviously. I think if I were doing it all over, I would give the Z7 hard consideration. I didn't do my home work well enough I guess. I thought the lens was ONLY manual. It's got automatic modes. No buyer remorse though.