I always turn on mine except when shooting in a place where there are lots of lights, you will get the flying fireflies...

I wonder if I am the only user of the 250 that finds its tape loading system to be overly fussy.

Sometimes I can load the tape on the first attempt 3 or 4 times in a row, yet other times its about 3 or 4 attempts.

I normally push down the tape until the machine bites it, then I let go.

However, sometimes it only goes down a small amount and then get ejected by the camera.

I wonder if I am being too gentle? Should I give it a more firm push?

In comparison, the VX9000 was easy to load.

Thanks for any feedback.

Cheers.

Thanks for the info Jun.

I have mine for a couple of months now but I never encountered that problem, either with a mini-DV or a DVCAM tapes. Yes I have to push it until the mechanism takes it and let it go but it never ejects. How old is your camcorder? Maybe it just needs cleaning on the tape mechanism. Have it check by a qualified Sony Service Center.

Hi Jun,

I have had the camera about 6 months. I think it has been "fussy" since I got it. Its strange, as I can load 3 or 4 tapes with no problem, and then the 5th tape requires 2 or 3 attempts. This is weeks apart.

It will go in some way, stop and then come back out. If I reload it again following this it can load perfect.

This is what makes me think its not a fault, possibly a technique issue. Although, I have always found loading a tape to be pretty straigt forward in the past :)

Cheers.

What tape are you using? Are you using a miniDV tapes? I haven't tried loading five tapes in one event since I am using a large DVCAM 184 tapes and that will finish the entire occasion for the day.

Jun, sorry to confuse.

Its one full size dvcam tape. Loading possibly one a week, I can load for 2 or 3 weeks no problem.

Then the following week it spits it back out. I can reload it and it goes in fine.

Cheers.

Really a bad practice to leave tape in a transport except when you are using the system.

Springs remain stretched, tension arms are left loaded as are some of the bearings in the transport. Sometimes tape is left in contact with the drum and heads, etc. And part of the tape may be left out of the cassette.

My buddy from Sony R&D in San Jose has a fit whenever anyone leaves a tape in their transports. Says it lessens the life of the transports more than anyone realizes.

I'm on the fence on this one. On the one hand, Mike's suggestion makes sense (and I've seen this mentioned elsewhere). On the other hand, the only reference I can find to removing tapes is buried on page 158 of my VX2000 manual (and it basically says to do so when your camcorder is "...not to be used for a long period of time."). If someone in Sony R&D get excited about removing tapes from the transport, it begs the question why the Sony technical writers and product support specialists don't mention this in big bold letters on page 2 of the product documentation?

For the time being, I'll probably err on the safe side and remove tapes when I'm done recording. However, it sure would be nice if Sony would formally acknowledge this practice - either in an errata or addendum to the production documentation or some sort of formal announcement on their website. At the very least, it sounds like there is room for Sony to improve their internal communications.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Sawtelle : On the other hand, the only reference I can find to removing tapes is buried on page 158 of my VX2000 manual (and it basically says to do so when your camcorder is "...not to be used for a long period of time."). -->>>

Anytime a manufacturer places something negative in their printed literature, no matter how buried, I pay attentiion.

I think you're missing my point. How many people do you think have ever read page 158 of the VX2000 manual (or any other technical manual for that matter...)? On page 7 there is a section entitled "Precautions on camcorder care". If removing the tape from the transport is so important for the longevity of the tape transport, it seems like the technical writers would include in in this section. Further, on page 16 there is a section which actually leads the reader to believe it's in their best interest to leave the tape in the camcorder if they want to ensure smooth transitions from one recording to the next. I'm not trying to be argumentive here - rather I'm merely suggesting there is an opportunity for Sony to more clearly state their position on this issue and/or improve their product documentation.

My point is that they never will do that. If and when they mention something negative, it usually has to be a serious issue before they do so. Burying it is SOP.

I agree with you and did understand your point. But Sony will never do what you suggest.

Anybody heard anything on the next generation of DSR-250? I am needing to get another 250, obviously don't want to just get the "old technology" although I find not much difference between the two, other than the excellent lens cap design.

Forget it! Sony is going over to HD.

Maybe Sony is but the world has not yet gotten there since the price of entry for the least expensive 'monitor' is still way up there compared to the cost of SD television.

DVDs didn't take off until the players got down in the $100 region. Most people cannot afford to spend even $500 on a television set if they don't have to .

So while we will probably get HD before it is an issue with our customers (we, on the other hand may very well want it for ourselves) I'm not certain ANY of my customers want HD right now. I reluctantly started offering DVDs just 6 months ago. I never lost a sale because of no DVD offering.

BTW, given the expense of the JVC HD camera with a single chip, what do you think the equivalent of a PD170 with 3 HD CCDs and the much higher quality lens will cost? If the camera is at all good, it will be pricey.

Yeah, and it (HD) has to be a shoulder-mount camera, else it would not fly in wedding videography -- the "look" of the setup is more important than the result, ironically.

I could use HD, it will be like having two cameras simultanously shooting at the same thing same time, for output as conventional 720x480i. Do the "zooming" in post, you can get a wide view or a closeup view depending on how you do the crop, presuming the quality is there due to the 1080i, and the glass and everything else is fine at that level. Hey, we can even get "idiots" to shoot then, as long as they can point in the general direction, ha, ha.

BTW, I am serious, does the above logic work if 1080i is available?

But PD-170 size is probably no-go.

If you feel you have to show up at a wedding carrying a 12lb. camera just to make an impression you are wrong. Some of the best work that I've seen has been done with palmcorders. Those guys are also getting upwards of 3K or more a gig. Bride's book videographers not on camera size but their work and referrals. What size camera you use probably rarely enters their mind.

Sony's HDV cam that they are revealing is indeed similar in size as the pd-170.

Guys, I split this thread and moved the wedding business issues portion to "Taking Care of Business," where I think it will get a LOT more attention.

It is a good discussion and more people need to hear/participate in it.

DSR250 price at B&H went up by $600.00, wonder why?

It sure did.

Well, guess I was lucky to get my 2nd DSR-250 before the price goes up.

If Sony is going to coming out with a DSR-270, by logic the price would go down instead of up. Perhaps Sony is discontinuing this "middle" model? You either have to go DSR-390 or 170?

Probably more of a supply vs. demand.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a 270 yet. The 250 must still be selling well.

I've had a DSR250 for about 4 years. So far it's performed flawlessly. I don't use it as much as the DSR500, but there are certain situations where it is the best thing for the job. It is surprising that they are raising the price. I wonder if all the DVCAM stuff is going up.

All cameras have gone up 5% in the last month.

JVC had a deal last month on their JVC GY DV5000 which included a 16X lens and rebate-price 4600-4700K

It is now 5600K for the same camera. YIKES!

Even at $5600, that's still not a bad price for a 1/2" chip camera. Of course, you have to spend another $1500 or so for batteries and a charger, but still it's a lot less than a DSR370.

The 250 is a 1/3" chip camera, exact same opticals as the PD-150

The 250 was a decent deal at $4200 or whatever B&H used to price it at but not now. In buying a large camera you're making an investment. I would tend to go for broke and spend the extra on the Ikegami HL-DV7W Professional 2/3" 16:9 DVCAM Camcorder. It's currently $11,000 at B&H and is a significantly better deal than the Sony DSR570 (unless you can find a good deal on a 500). Sure you still have to spend another 5K in a lens and batteries but at least those are transferrable. Also you're getting a 2/3" 16:9 camera that will carry you over for the HD transition. Figure you can get at least 5 years out of the Ikegami whereas the dsr250-dsr390 will be obsolete in 3 years. I wouldn't spend any more than 5K on a 4:3 camcorder right now and that's pushing it.

I think you may be overly optimistic about the rapid acceptance of 16:9, but I hope you're right. I don't really give a damn about HD, but I would be one really happy camper if the world would convert to 16:9 overnight. Once you've shot 16:9 with a DSR500 or equivalent Ikegami, it's really difficult to shoot 4:3 again (but alas, I have to all the time).

Does anybody know of any camera (the same type we are talking about) that would use my large collections of Nikkor lenses?

I have several "BIG GUNS", too bad can't use them shooting video, yet.

Wouldn't hesitate paying $10K or more for a camera like that. Presume it would be 1/2" or 2/3" CCD of course.

It is possible to buy Nikon adapters which allow you to use the lenses on a 2/3" chip camera with the standard B4 mount, ie., all of them that I know about. Nikon used to sell two--one for their wider angle lenses and a different one for the longer lenses. Your equivalent focal length would be a lot different than what it says on the lens when using it with a 2/3" chip camera. I can't remember the exact amount, but more than double, I think.

Back when I shot 16mm I had a Nikon adapter for my CP16-R, and I used my 50mm micro Nikkor all the time for tabletop copystand work, and I used the 200mm once for a really long telephoto shot.
Last time I checked, which was several years ago, the Nikon adapters were several hundred bucks. Probably somebody else makes them too. I don't know of any for 1/2" chip cameras, but it's possible there is one.

Century Optics makes an adaptor for Nikon to Sony 1/2" mount. It costs around $800 IIRC. You have to call them to get any information.

You do understand that a film-camera lens is not optimized for video, right? That's why they don't use them on HD cameras. The lens are designed for a curved film plane.

That said, since using a 35mm lens on a 1/2" camera only uses the center of the field, they should give OK results on SD cameras.

Thanks, will check it out.

Now if I can find something to shoot with my 800/5.6 w/o being accused of a moral or "John Ashcroft" crime...

Just don't caught by the Justice Department aiming that long lens at a statue that has bare boobs. Ashcroft doesn't like that at all, y'know.

Anybody has this trouble?

The velcro (for wireless transmitter) on my DSR-250 Sony batteries, BP-L40 or whatever, comes off after a few weeks. Especially if I leave the transmitter there when not in use. But w/o it still come off after a while.

Does anybody use any glue (beyond what's on the velcro) to stick to the battery? I am sure the smooth surface of the battery has something to do with it. I don't really want to put superglue or anything permanet on the item, but can't continue to spend money on velcro.

I have industrial velcro on my batteries (the stuff that is not at all soft, sort of like a stiff plastic brush) and it does not come off.

Have to clean the battery surfaces with alcohol before attaching the velcro.

Superglue is not appropriate for this type of application.

Industrial grade Velcro is a must. You can buy it in random lengths off 2-inch wide rolls at a large fabric and sewing supply store. Don't touch the sticky layer and put it down in the right place on the first try. If you peel it up just once, it'll never stick as well. I use lens cleaning solution to prepare the surface, as common rubbing alcohol has a wax additive that leaves a residue that interferes with the bonding. Make sure that all the old goop from past Velcro applications is removed. Press it down at all points thoroughly for several minutes. If you do it right, it'll stay put for years. When you remove the attached items, use a rotating motion, rather than a straight-up pull, to reduce
strain that might cause it to start peeling.

Steve McDonald

Thanks guys.

I was using industrial velcro, from sewing store, etc, but I would admit to pulling items off straight out instead of rotating it, and also sometimes "pushing it" a bit after initially putting the velcro down.

Oh, well, give those advise a try. Thanks again.

Have any of you shot any of your projects with the sony dsr 250?
Do you have a link of a preview, or a short that was shot with the DSR 250?

I know the DVX kicks major ass, but right now I can't afford to buy it or even rent it.

Any advice and or tricks with the DSR 250? Possible to do wonders with it.

Gidday Matt

Anything you shoot with a PD150 you can shoot on the 250(unless the larger size is going to upset things). Video quality is pretty close to being identical between the two cameras. I own both and find the 250 works out being easier to use because of the placement of controls (wb,gain etc) and the fact its a shoulder mount.

The 250 will shoot DV on 180min DVCAM tapes giving around 4.5 hours of taping! Not bad going and it will run for around 3 hours on the BPL40/IDX50S style batterys and for years on a BPL90 ;).

Also have a DSR-390, IMHO the biggest difference between the 250 and 390 is the manual lens which can be handy sometimes and the bigger CCD's fitted to the 390. The pics are a bit sharper compared to the 250 and it has the ability to handle a greater contrast range.

I've had my 250 for just under 2 years and use it for weddings, taping seminars and the odd bit of stringer work.

Thanks Jon,

I'm planning to film a short film with it, and hopefully I can do magic in the editing process :)

Are there filters for this camera? And how about if I want to shoot in widescreen?

The camera can use 58mm filters on the front and there are bayonet mounting wide angle and anamorphic lens around for it and the PD150.

I have had a play with the inbuilt electronic 16:9 and it does drop in resolution compared to 4:3. Probably better to either crop in post, put an anamorphic adaptor on the front or get hold of a PDX10(in order of cost!).

Which camera has "better" audio using the standard Sony mic that came with it? PD-170 or an old DSR-200? I have a friend who says the DSR-200 has less noise and the PD-170 "distorts" more easily.

I ask because we need to "match" audio with the camera built in mikes on some shoots.

That's a tough one. Few of us have both those cameras. Weren't many 200's made before they upgraded to the A model. don't know if there was any diff between the two with respect to audio.

Since you have both of the cameras, a test seems in order. It is very likely that the cameras came with about the same microphone.

Most of us get around that issue by using one camera as sound master and the others just to furnish room tone and to act as a backup in case the prime camera has a problem.

Hi Mike,

It seems the 200 has a Stereo mic!!!

We shoot quite a few "club" concerts/performances. We record audio to DAT but mix in camera audio. Mix depends on which camera was near which insturment etc.

On the video side of things I do believe the 200 seems more prone to gain up noise than the 150. It does seem to look a bit better than a vx1000 but I thought they were using the same CCDs. The 200 might have a better lens though.

Our typical shoot arsenal includes PD150, PD170, DSR 200, VX1000, Panny DVX100 cameras and Tascam DA-P1 DAT deck. We haven't done straight up comparisions because the cameras are in different postiions and therefor subject to different lighting and audio circumstances.

<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Seeman : Hi Mike,

It seems the 200 has a Stereo mic!!!

We shoot quite a few "club" concerts/performances. We record audio to DAT but mix in camera audio. Mix depends on which camera was near which insturment etc.

On the video side of things I do believe the 200 seems more prone to gain up noise than the 150. It does seem to look a bit better than a vx1000 but I thought they were using the same CCDs. The 200 might have a better lens though.
-------------------------
The 150 is a LOT better than the 200 in low light. Overall, the 150/170 will deliver a better picture even in good conditions, IMHO.
-------------------------
Our typical shoot arsenal includes PD150, PD170, DSR 200, VX1000, Panny DVX100 cameras and Tascam DA-P1 DAT deck. We haven't done straight up comparisions because the cameras are in different postiions and therefor subject to different lighting and audio circumstances. -->>>

Some minor Sony cam related Q.z, probably belonging in Area 51, but not only, necessarily.

Has anyone heard anything about the possibility of a DSR270? I don't mean to start a thread of mere wishful thinking, but I am awfully curious.
What was the timing of the PD150 and the 250 when they hit the market? At the same time, or one then the other, over a few months or something like that?
I've been getting into wedding videography, am itching for a second cam that will go nicely with my PD170 (which I like very much), have a use and desire for a shoulder cam, and would rather have all of the improvements that came with the 170 (over the 150). Does it seem like Sony might not bother with a 270?

Also, pricing...I was at the B&H website the other night, looking at their DSR250 packages, as well as their Pana DVC200 packages (my other interest, as far as semi-affordable shoulder cams go). Comparable packages of each of these two cameras cost about the same. How does that work? The DVC200 is a 1/2" cam with superior controls, and the 250 is a 1/3" cam with a fixed electronic Sony lens. Is this supply and demand at work? Or the difference between the two companies, Sony and Panasonic? Who knows?

Well, at any rate, I'll probably end up going with a second PD170 at some point, but if anyone has heard anything real about the prospect of the DSR270, I'm interested (but only if it's going to cost less than the dvc200!).

Shawn

Depends on the package. Some of the DSR250 packages at BH photo come with AB Hytron 50 batteries and a charger, thats about $1500 right there. Throw in an AB Ultralight for a hundred and sixty and maybe a Sony softbag and BINGO. $5800 for the kit. Not a bad price.
Make sure you're comparing EVERYTHING that comes in the package to insure a viable comparison. The Panny may seem like a great deal but if you've got to invest another thousand or 2 for power and charger, maybe it's not. I don't know, I'm just saying make sure they have equal things in the package.

Good Luck,
Don B

You're absolutely right, forgive my ignorance. It was these two packages that I was comparing, without knowing the differences between the components:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=233970&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=252465&is=REG

Hey Shawn,

The Panny kit looks like a good deal, the big differences in the kit are the batteries. TrimPacs with the Panny and Hytron50's with theSony. Of course the biggest difference is the chips. 1/2 vs. 1/3rd inch, so it's really up to you which you would feel more comfy with AND also remember that the Panny only uses full size tapes so you need a way to load to your NLE.

I don't think you can go wrong with either kit depending of course what your needs and comfort level are.
Hey, same money, different kits. Tough choice.
Good Luck in your decision,
Don B

Yes, and $1500 for a vtr, and...$500 for a battery charger?
It IS a good deal of a package, eh?
And a little further on down the road, for me.
A second PD170 is probably what will happen as an intermediary step.
A DSR270 would be stellar, though!

Is there a good resource that can help me understand the nature of things like all of the different batteries and lenses for these higher end cameras? That would obviously clear up things for me.

Just a bit of advice. Before you decide on the 250, rent a pro camera with a removable lens. It may be that you will really like the speed associated with the pro camera with its direct control of lens elements. Also, the difference in image processing and the 1/2 chips is significant as compared to the 1/3 inch chips in the 250. So much so that I elected to purchase a good used DSR-300 as my 'big' camera. In almost all respects, it beats, as it should, my PD-150.