I am ready to invest in a nice shotgun mic to improve on the crappy on board mic. I will mainly be using it for some event videography, corporate videos, documentaries and eventually a feature. I have $300-$400 to spend. I want to invest in a good mic that I wont regret getting in the future. What do you folks recommend? the ME66, the AT897, or another mic? I keep hearing some bad stuff about the ME66, but Sennheiser is Sennheiser. Please give me suggestions below....

It depends on which camera you use.

I'g go with the 897, spent what's left over on a good K-tek shock mount (KSM)

It's a schizophrenic issue in regards to sennheiser.

Sometimes the quality of the video camera dictates which microphone works the best, which is actually backwards and frankly not fair to the reputation of the microphone manufacturer.

I would say the sennheiser ME-66 is a terrific mike, been out for 7 years and still going strong. I would STRONGLY recommend that you turn off all auto settings as they relate to the camera audio input.

If you cannot turn the auto audio function off, your video camera is very limited no matter what microphone you use.

I'll second Bryan's advice. You NEED a shockmount and the 897 is a solid and reasonably-priced choice.

If you were going to consider the me66 then you'd be absolutely NUTS to not just get the 4073a... it's $80 more then the me66.

I owned an me66 and I thought it was the greatest mic you could get for the price... and up to maybe TWICE the price. Well, it isn't. The me66 is very thin and unnatural sounding AND MOST IMPORTANTLY it's not even all that directional... the off-axis and rear rejection on the me66 isn't HALF as good as the 4073a. I've owned both and tested 'em in an A/B environment AND in practical use.

The widespread acceptance that the me66 is such a great mic is just another one of those things which is ALSO responsible for the widespread acceptance that WE, in the video world, CAN'T compete with Hollywood on sound. I used to use my me66 and think, "Man! This things sounds great! But even still I wish I could get natural, warm, studio like sound that they get for Hollywood movies..."

Well, 80% of that battle is GETTING THE MICS THEY USE. The 4073a is a professional, Hollywood caliber mic. The me66 isn't. They don't sound or work the same.

The 897 is not as "hot" of a mic as the me66... so if you had something other then the DVX you'd be better off with the me66, just for the hotter signal which reduces the need for better internal pre-amps for your camera. Since you have a dvx that's not really a big issue and the weaker, but better sounding, mic will give you the best results AT A LOWER PRICE.

Just so you know I'm not digging on Sennheiser... remember that I BOUGHT an me66 and owned it for years AND I even got a FULL Rycote blimp/furry for it which cost MORE then the mic! Right now my favorite shotgun is the Mkh60 and my second favorite is the Mkh416... so believe me... I LOVE Sennheiser stuff... I've even bought 4 pairs of Sennheiser headphones through the years and given them as gifts 'cause they're so nice... It just happens that the me66 has a reputation that is undeserved. The me66 is NOT in the class of the higher-end Sennheiser mics... EVEN THOUGH the At4073a, at ONLY $80 more then the me66, IS.

When the me66 came out it was around $300 and the At4073a was around $650-$700. Well the reputation was EARNED by everybody buying a $300 mic... the fact is the me66 price has BLOATED up to $450 and the 4073a price has LOWERED to $530.

So you can either get a $300 mic for $450... a $300 mic for $280... or a $700 mic for $530... your choice.

The 897 is a bargain priced shotgun with a good sound and it'll maintain it value. It's a solid choice to hold you over until you can get something in the next class up... which the me66 isn't.

You may even find that the 897 stays in your mic bag forever... and the K-Tek CERTAINLY will.

The fact that the ME-66 is not super-directional is a plus in my book.

ME-66 is also an excellent voice-over mike. The ME-66 maybe "live" but I solved that issue by using a -10 to 20 pad. At least tell me you've used a pad on a non-digital camera because if you haven't, you haven't fairly tested the microphone.

Where can I find the 4073a for cheap?

The absolute best price available for the At4073a is $530 from B&H. They have their nearest competitor (who has a special on this mic) beat by $20... everybody else is around $600 for it.

Sorry about my voice, but whatever, it's still an apples to apples i.e. A/B test... CLICK HERE for me66 and 4073a sound clips. (http://www.gettreel.com/me66%20vs%204073a.wma)

Notice that the Sennheiser is crisp and clean, but not very natural sounding... the AT is warm and natural, but still crisp and detailed... the best portion of this test is the last half where you hear the exact recording by having each mic on ch1 and ch2 so it's a split recording of the same event at the same equalized volume. At about 00:02:40 you hear me at 3' from both mics... the FAR superior reach of the 4073a just begins to shine here where it's OBVIOUS that it's got way more reach then the me66. At 3' the me66 goes from sounding thin to sounding like a cell-phone... and the 4073a hardly changes tonal character. It still sounds like I'm close to the mic even though I'm the same 3' away.

EDIT: Earlier I typed some ramblings in this post about dying friends and life problems and all the things which make me wonder why anybody cares so much why one mic is better then another, or feels the need to defend one mic over another. Personally I don't care what you get. If it were me in your shoes and I didn't have phantom, I'd get the 897... having phantom means the 4073a. If anybody has the me66 and likes it, great. Bryan Beasleigh, Dave Largent, Ken Tanaka, and I have all done A/B tests including the me66 and other mics... I guess I'm the ONLY ONE out of us who couldn't get rid of my me66 fast enough when I heard the difference, BUT we ALL heard the difference using our individual setups. Who knows? Maybe our little tests will eventually fade away and the me66 snowball can get back on track... I can't believe how much people will defend the me66 in comparison to these other mics... but in all honesty, if you're happy I'm happy. Buy and use whatever suits you.

<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier :
I owned an me66 and I thought it was the greatest mic you could get for the price... and up to maybe TWICE the price. Well, it isn't. The me66 is very thin and unnatural sounding. -->>>

I couldn't DISAGREE MORE. You know there is a switch on the ME-66 so you can roll off the bass if you want. If you don't want to roll off the bass, you don't. I personally don't like to roll off the bass unless I have a lot of background wind because with the bass rolled off it does sound thin, but it DOES NOT sound thin if you set the switch to not roll off the bass.

And you most definitely need to use an audio pad if you are recording to a "normal" XLR style input of camera with a "normal" peak to peak volt that was standard before the digital cameras came out. Most of the newer digital camcorders have INFERIOR audio input peak to peak voltage and it may be the camcorder that
is coloring the quality of various microphones.

<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier :
When the me66 came out it was around $300 and the At4073a was around $650-$700. Well the reputation was EARNED by everybody buying a $300 mic... the fact is the me66 price has BLOATED up to $450 and the 4073a price has LOWERED to $530.
-->>>

Sounds like urban legend to me. The top sennheiser microphone piece and the bottom sennheiser power supply were separately priced. To buy both the power supply and the microphone the combined cost was well over $300, I think it was around the $450.00 price. It didn't go up in price because of reputation as you claim, it's always been in that price range.

I hope we are not comparing apples and oranges here. Are these other microphones you mention powered by a single double A battery? If not, it is pointless to be comparing them so I am assuming they are also powered by a single Double A battery.

Hmm... now I wish I hadn't edited my rather blunt initial reply. I paid $350 for my me66 2.5 years ago... yeah, it's the two parts... K6 pre and me66 cap.

I don't care if you want to ignore the audible results of every person on here who has actually taken the time to do them or if you want to dispute ALL of this just so you can feel like you've got yourself a nice mic there.

Fortunately, for as poor as I actually am... $80 is nothing to me. If a person has phantom power available, such as Carlos does (dvx)... and they STILL get an me66 then I hope it's everything they wanted. I'm glad everytime somebody argues how great the me66 is... Frankly I'm getting tired of pointing out the obvious differences in mics. Let me emphasize OBVIOUS differences. For every guy who argues how great the me66 is... somebody else out there is reproducing audio using a 4073a and getting results on a tremendously higher level. Keep buying the me66s up everybody! You're only making those of us who can pop an extra $80 for the 4073a sound like we're using $5K audio kits... when in reality it was as simple as getting a way better mic for just a little more money.

If you care to use your ears maybe you can tell me if you hear any difference in these two mics... the me66 and mkh416... scroll down for FOUR seperate files. (http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/audio/tanaka2.php)

CLICK here for the .pdf file for the me66 and see on page 4 that from 500hz to 60hz the frequency response steadily drops EIGHT db... know what that means? Little BASS... and THAT'S with it in the FLAT position... I owned one for two years... I'm quite familiar with the flat vs. rolloff. (http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm.nsf/resources/ME66_bda.pdf/$File/ME66_bda.pdf)

CLICK here for the .pdf file for the 4073a and see that from TWO THOUSAND HERTZ all the way down to FIFTY HERTZ that the frequency response drops ZERO DB... know what that means? WAY MORE BASS... which means FLAT FREQUENCY RESPONSE not PLUMMETING FREQUENCY RESPONSE... which means NATURAL SOUNDING MIC as your own ears can attest if you'd stop lying to yourself because your too proud to consider another mic's superiority. (http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro/addinfo/AT4073a_english.pdf)

CLICK here for the .pdf file for the 897 and see that this mic ALSO DOESN'T DROP 8DB FROM 500HZ TO 60HZ, BUT RATHER IT'S A FLAT, I.E. WARM, I.E. NATURAL SOUNDING MIC... So if you want to make this argument based ENTIRELY on mics with the option of battery/phantom... I STILL say get the 897... unless you NEED a hot output mic... why use a pad to control a hot mic that doesn't sound as good as a CHEAPER mic which DOESN'T require that pad? (http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro/addinfo/AT897_english.pdf)

I BOUGHT ALL THESE MICS. I didn't buy ONE MIC and push my opinion on everybody else just so I could feel good about my ONE MIC... Why don't you buy $5K worth of mics LIKE I DID... and then tell us what the differences are? You're basing your whole "mastery" of mic knowledge on your one purchase there. If you even go into Coffey Sound or Location Sound... RIGHT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD then you can bring your me66 and try out some other mics. Unfortunately it's going to be frustrating if you're capable of facing reality.

Alexandro
You breaze in about every two months and disagree with everyone, then you disapear.

Matt you most certainly have a good handle on everything audio.

Me I don't like the ME66 and I never really did but then that's why they have more than 1 brand of microphone.

Matt,

I for one appreciate the time and effort you have put into compiling and researching this information. I have been trying to make my mind up about what to buy and loking for advice in all kinds of places (earlier thread), but actually hearing the mics is great. I was thinking of an me66 initially, attracted (probably) because of the 'rave' reviews from owners as well as the 'bargain bucket' price, but after hearing your files I am definately going to get the 4073a.

Just a question though - any idea on the AT835B or AT815? I cannot understand AT's pricing structure over here in the uk - the 815 is £200 but the 815S (stereo version) is £725, thats wierd as the usual difference between the mono & stereo is only minimal in their range. I may buy and 835 or 815 as a back-up or for other purposes (mono of course!).

Thanks mate.

Stephen, I'm sorry I don't have any experience with those particular AT mics.

Just in case anybody needs an extra bump as to why I like the AT so much CLICK HERE for a comparison of the 4073a (first) and the 416 (second). (http://www.gettreel.com/At4073a%20takes%20on%20the%20Mkh416.wma)

I bought both of these mics (as I did ALL the others... except the Schoeps... thank you Joe K. for lending yours)... and the 4073a was $530 and the 416 was $995. Do I think the 416 sounds better then the 4073a? Yes... but I think there's a lot less difference in the 4073a and 416... then the 4073a and me66... and, as I've been stating, you can HEAR that the AT is at least in the league of the 416. Take particular notice of the off-axis and rear rejection, which is only a couple db inferior to the 416... whereas the me66 has a tail that works 75% as good as the front of the mic! Point the XLR end at the speaker or the cap end at the speaker... it only makes 25% difference! Now listen to the AT... the xlr end of the mic knocks off 75% of my voice. THIS is what we buy shotguns for... directional microphone with reach.

I know a lot of people who own me66s, so I try not to be too abrasive about that mic. As I said, it really IS a clean and clear sounding mic which CAN be useful... it's just that there are other choices which I feel represent a better VALUE at this point.

I've been trying to find a price on the me66 from an old post... 2 years ago it was $350 or so... If I didn't have to go to work I'd keep looking... but I gotta' go for now. Just LAST year B&H sold it for $380.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :

Alessandro
You breaze in about every two months and disagree with everyone, then you disapear.

Matt you most certainly have a good handle on everything audio.

Me I don't like the ME66 and I never really did but then that's why they have more than 1 brand of microphone. -->>>

--------------------------------------------------------

What does how often I come here have to do with this discussion?

You could easily have said I breeze in here and defend the ME66 every couple of months, and that would have been just as true and much less negative on your part.

You also don't address the core issue that I raised, are you guys comparing a microphone with an internal battery (the ME-66) with one that does not have an internal battery?

My application for the ME-66 is primarily voice overs, opera and E.N.G. and the wider pick-up helps for a more even pick up. Which now raises the question, if the ME-66 has a wider pick up, then how can it drop off more than the other mikes you tested unless the test involved a stationary object with no head sweep, a situation that I find never comes up.

For video work, sometimes you need to create the most isolated sounds possible, but sometimes you don't.

You don't always want ultra directional sound studio audio when you are in a "live" environment that is being videotaped, it can sound fake.

The fact that the ME-66 has less of some qualities you find attractive also means there will be some environments where the ME-66 will be the perfect microphone.

But this discussion is as much about does the 4073A run off of a 1.5 volt internal battery or not? If it doesn't run off of an internal battery, then you aren't comparing the same kind of microphone.

Phantom Powered Microphones in general are made to be used by sound guys who are concentrating on sound only. Phantom powered microphones being used by camera guys can inevitably lead to frustrating situations.

The DVX is in the shop and the camera person has to use a different camera that does not have phantom power.

A friend needs help on their own project and your microphone would be a big upgrade for their shoot but their camera does not have phantom power.

Just as you complain about how inferior you think an ME-66 is I could complain about camera owners who never upgraded the factory lens that came with ENG style Industrial cameras. Less than 1% of ENG camera owners ever upgraded their lenses.
The difference in low light is amazing between the higher end after market lens and the lens that came with the camera.

The real answer to the microphone issue is the ME-66 is a great all around easy to use microphone. If someone is SURE they know HOW they will be using their camera set up in all scenarios and will ALWAYS have access to phantom power, then go with a more expensive microphone.

No need to poo poo the ME-66 to get your viewpoint embraced.

When I shoot opera I found two ME-66's work quite will on stage specifically because they are not UBER directional and give slightly more ambience and reality to the sound. It's quite possible the ME-66 is an ideal microphone for that shooting situation.

I don't have the ability to move the microphones when they are set, so if singers are slightly off axis I still get very decent sound.

A different, more focused shotgun microphone might not give me the off axis fidelity I am currently getting.

Forget the 4073a if you want to disqualify it due to it's phantom requirements. You've chosen to narrow your focus to battery powered mics and that's fine... I thought we were talking about mics in the $300-$500 price range. My point in bringing up the 4073a is that even though it's $530... that's only $80 more then the me66... and since the 4073a effectively competes with professional mics such as the Mkh416, which sells for $1K... the debate about the value of the 4073a ends there.

The me66 is a fine mic... it's an entry level mic at the very top of the entry level price range... in fact it's only $80 cheaper then an actual Hollywood production mic... and that's where I have the problem with it.

Are you seriously planning to limit yourself to battery powered mics for as long as you do video? NO MIC in the professional range is battery powered... accepting phantom requirements is the FIRST thing you must do when you want to jump in the deep end of the pool. A single channel phantom box is only $55... or a Beachtek can dish out phantom with variable levels (for 2 mics) for $250... If it were me I wouldn't consider a mic ONLY based on whether or not it can run on an AA battery. I care about sound, not batteries.

BUT if you want to ONLY look at the battery issue then take a look at my earlier post which clearly shows the superior frequency response of the 897... which uses a battery AND it's $170 (one hundred and seventy!) dollars cheaper then the Sennheiser. A better mic for LESS money? Maybe, maybe not... you see I don't care so I can be FAIR about all of this... and here's my dose of reality for the 897 vs. me66:

For this argument there are only 2 bits of data which matter in determining the best choice between the battery powered 897 or the battery powered me66... SENSITIVITY and FREQUENCY RESPONSE. Now even though I think there's WAY more to choosing a mic then ONLY these two factors, we're going to keep this as simple as possible so there's NO confusion.

The me66 trumps the 897 on sensitivity... 50 mV/Pa versus the 897's sensitivity of 10 mV/Pa... and that's why you need that pad for your me66... it's a hot mic. If you've got a VX2000-2001, PD150-170, XL1-XL2 then you will benefit from this HOT output... what that means is that the mic is louder and creates a stronger signal with the camera pre-amps set at lower levels which results in a lower noise floor. Follow me? So if you've got a cam WHICH BENEFITS from a HOT mic then the me66 will ultimately yield better results then the 897. All clear on that?

The 897 trumps the me66 on frequency response... virtually flat versus the me66's steady drop from 600hz on down... and that's why the me66 sounds thinner and less natural then other mics, such as the 897 and it also accounts for the fairly marginal rejection of sounds that were engineered into this mic... often times traffic and other bass heavy noises are the ones you want to reject... and if you're not proficient enough or resourceful enough to correct those problems... you can pick a mic which handles some of that for you... but AT THE EXPENSE OF WARM AND NATURAL SOUND... and MORE IMPORTANTLY there have been newer designs, such as the 897, which have come along offering SUPERIOR off-axis and rear rejection AND warmer and more natural sound. THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR BETWEEN THE ME66 AND 897 IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU NEED A HOT MIC... if you've got to pad your me66 down, then you chose the wrong mic.

Finally... since I really do like the 4073a so much... let me add that the 4073a is BOTH more sensitive then ALL of these mics AND it sounds the best AND it's got the best frequency response AND even though it's by far the hottest at 70 mV/Pa... due to it's incredible off-axis and rear rejection... overloading is no where NEAR the problem that it is with the me66.

So if you're in a situation where you aren't even benefiting from the me66's hot output AND you have to pad it down anyway... then you're getting the worst of all worlds.

The me66 does NOT drop off faster then the other mics AND it's got a fat tail which will always be in your face... hearing EVERYTHING behind the mic. You can try to spin that into some kind of benefit, but it's detriment, not a plus.

If you'd said that ALL you do with the me66 is ENG... I'd have no real problem with your preferrence anyway... why should I care? The ONLY reason I'm arguing this point AT ALL is 'cause I care about the REAL FACTS showing up for the countless browsers who will stumble across these words.

Stating that you use the me66 for VO and OPERA really says a lot about your mic experience... the me66 is NOT flattering to voice of any kind... it's original purpose was for capturing intelligible sound... which is NOT the same as detailed or natural sound... and the other issue is that the me66 is one of the worst mics for a reverberrant space... If you try out some other mics for your opera recordings you'll be mashing potatos with that me66 by Friday.

All I'm trying to say is that I do know something about mics and sound... all thanks to Beas, Dave, Ken, and the few other people who don't just spout opinions, but back up what they say.

I should add that I first met Dave by popping into one of the tests Beas and Dave were doing... I jumped in and said, "I think you'd be surprised at how good my m58 sounds!"... and they said, "Bad news Matt... that m58 is one of the worst sounding newsmics out there." Rather then argue, I investigated what they said and ya' know what? They were right! I did the easy thing and tried another mic out... sold the m58... and NOW I have a better ENG stick mic which sounds LOADS better. If I'd have argued that they were wrong... and NOT listened... I'd still have the worst sounding ENG mic out there AND I wouldn't be getting the wonderful sound I'm getting.

So defend the me66 all you want... I have nothing against YOU or the me66. If you like it then use it... I'm just trying my best to give some prospective buyers a little insight before spending a significant chunk of cash on a mic that's got better alternatives at both a higher AND lower price.

Since Carlos has phantom and a very good preamp in his dvx, battery power is a moot point. Any of the mic comparisons that Matt or I have done have been using phantom power anyway. Have a listen.

I was going to respond point by point, but it's a daunting task.

Here's what I'm getting from your viewpoints, The ME-66 ALWAYS comes in second place no matter what the situation.

My point is that means the microphone is pretty darn flexible and can work in a myriad of situations and is never dependent on phantom power. One microphone with the utility to perform well in many situations and is independent of different Phantom Power requirements is quite a good and flexible thing.

I don't see how using a pad is a bad thing. Many creative industry processes "overexpose" their product to get a thicker negative, or record a hot signal to get a better signal to noise, (this is true in digital as well). The key is to "develop" recorded medium properly and not overexpose or overmodulate the signal.

When one talks about how "good" a microphone is, the context needs to be fully explained. Generally, I like that I have a pair of ME-66's that I can use for either run and gun interviews OR use as a stereo pair for opera OR use in my studio for voice over.

In each scenario you can come up with a microphone that is better, but when you factor in ALL THREE TYPES OF ENVIRONMENTS mentioned above AND being completely free of phantom power requirements that are everchanging depending on what recording device one is using, the ME-66 gains in a decathlon type of comparison. The ME-66 may not finish first in any one category, but it CAN be used in so many categories with very good results and with no dependence on phantom power.

a pure sound guy would probably never want to settle for just an ME-66, but a video run and gun, ENG, low budget, no crew kind of situation excells with an ME-66.

Dude, this is great comedy... really I'm loving you. The environment DOES matter and any environment beyond outdoor use in close proximity will KILL the me66's sound.

I'm not saying it comes in 2nd with ANY mics... only between the 897 and me66... and even then if you NEED the hot output then it ACTUALLY COMES IN FIRST! Yippee! If you're padding it down then you didn't need the hot output.

Another point which I need to clarify just in case it snares a newbie is the PHANTOM POWER IS UNIVERSAL... it's 48v... It don't matter if you're using a tiny lav or a large diaphragm studio mic... if it says "phantom power" that means 48v. If you got the phantom box I mentioned for $55 it will put out 48v... if you get a Sound Devices 302 for $1300 it will put out 48v. Any time you see a mic which gives a range of phantom voltages that will work that's only to tell you that mic will still work if there's a problem which causes voltage fluctuations... or if you've got a plug-on or something that can't muster the 48v. Otherwise PHANTOM = 48V.

Hey Alessandro, if you like the me66 that's fine. If you don't want to go to Coffey or Location Sound and here this for yourself that's fine too.

The crux of my arguments is always bittersweet, because I enjoy hearing when somebody discovers a new world of sound with a simple mic purchase... but for every person who graduates from the me66 my productions sound just a little less omnipotent.

Coming in second in a race of 2 is finishing last... and that says nothing about the margin of victory.

More importantly then that... if you were using the proper selection of mics for the uses you listed... the me66 wouldn't even be in the race.

ENG? Yes... 2nd or 3rd in a race of either 2 or 3.

VO? No!

Opera? No!

I want to give you the last word on this... but not if you end on a statement that isn't true.

No comedy here.

You haven't listed one microphone alone that is better than an ME-66 in all scenarios, you have mentioned a few microphones. So if one wants to invest in several shotgun microphones, then your way makes sense.

And 12 volt is another phantom power setting that one can come across, it's not all 48 volt.

How 'bout this... simple enough that the slowest among us can comprehend it.

The At4073a is WAY better then the me66, me67, AND me64. So your way costs more for inferior results IN ALL scenarios.

One mic beats a whole SYSTEM of mics... believe it.

The 4073a is more sensitive then ANY of the Sennheiser k6 mics.

The 4073a has more REACH then ANY of the Sennheiser k6 mics.

The 4073a works better in close proximity then the me64.

The 4073a sounds better then ANY of the k6 mics in ANY situation. Simple enough? Most importantly it isn't a case of the me66 simply taking second place... the 4073a makes the me66 sound like a cheap toy in comparison. When I got the AT I couldn't rid myself of my me66 fast enough... it was trash to me.

If you think phantom powering is a complicated matter... even though you can find other voltages then 48v... which isn't common... then you're condemned to audio mediocrity with an overpriced and under-performing mic.

There is the MKH60, 416, CK69, CS-1,CS-3 and the Schoeps MK41 , They all smoke the ME66 as well they should. The MKH60 is 3 times the price of an ME66. The MKH60 and the 416 can be used for VO, the prefered mic for VO could also include the schoeps mk41. I suppose if that's all you had, the ME66 would be better than a sharp stick in the nether region.

The ME66 is a great $400 battery powered mic, the AT mics are good as well.

<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier :

If you think phantom powering is a complicated matter... even though you can find other voltages then 48v... which isn't common... then you're condemned to audio mediocrity with an overpriced and under-performing mic. -->>>

It can be a pain to hook up two phantom power adaptors for stereo miking when you have to also be ready for possibly doing wireless audio.

One's camera can begin to look like a Rube Goldberg device having both phantom power adapters plus a wireless mike attached to the back, plus headphones, plus variable audio pad pots. My BetaCam Sp back has phantom power, but my S-VHS back that I use for opera (the HI-FI tracks were made for Opera) has no phantom power.

The mixing and matching of several cameras and record backs that I use would become that much more complicated with phantom powered microphones. On the other hand, I purchased an after market fujinon lens that kicks butt in lowlight over the lens that comes with the camera. The lens cost more than most upper end mini-dv camcorders.

If I hadn't bought that lens, maybe I buy phantom power microphones along with the ME-66. My point all along has been as one adds options and variations to ones camera package, it becomes important to have various accessories that work on ALL the gear, and to not invest in area (audio), while ignoring the reality of a mediocre factory camera lens when compared to the aftermarket lens.

I don't believe the trade off to be as great as you state, that's why equalizers and mixers exist, to optimize the sound that microphones deliver.

I set up and run two cameras by myself, run cables to the front of the stage, every little extra thing I have to cross remember because it's different with each camera I use makes the whole process more complex.

Agreed. Complex rigs ran by one guy result in missed shots and unexpected mistakes.

Carlos stated at the outset that he'll be using a dvx... so if he gets either an 897 OR a 4073a he's done. Nothing else needed to make it work.

<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier : Agreed. Complex rigs ran by one guy result in missed shots and unexpected mistakes.
-->>>

You're quite the condescending fellow.

You took it wrong... I meant it. I'm a one-man band 75% of the time... I make sure my rig is streamlined to minimize problems. I was trying to extend an olive branch since we're just going to disagree on the me66... and I'd rather end my replys on a respectful and positive note.

Awesome!
Thanks so much for taking the time to do the side by sides.

I'm hoping to be able to swing a mike in a month or two and these kinds of tests are invaluable.

taking the time to do this isn't easy and I appreciate the effort.

It will so help me make a better decision.

sorry for the shameless plug but i have a mint condition CS-1 for sale if you're interested :-D

Hey, I'm curious about it, Dan! Email me at WG25@aol.com

Yeah Dan... remember me asking you if you'd sell it? Wazzup wit dat? My own bro dissin' me... Okay fine I have already spent a fortune on mics this year and I guess my budget is popped... but I think you're going to find that it's easy as pie to sell a pro mic.

Why don't you throw us a bone and let us in on the price?

Hey to everybody else... did you see how long it took for Dan to say he'd be selling a PRO mic... and then how long it took somebody to inquire about it? 16 minutes total.

If you get a pro-mic, it will hold more of it's value and stay a liquid asset.

I've only seen one 4073a come up for sale once on these forums and the guy was trying to get full retail back out of the mic... if you take a reasonable (modest) loss on a pro mic you'll sell it instantly.

Wow, thank you all for the feedback and the lively debate. Right now I consider myself lucky since I can invest money on good gear altought im not rich.

Opps sorry, the text posted before I had time to finish. My point is, I decided I should buy the best possible microphone in my price range. I just ordered the 4073a microphone kit from B and H!
It looks like its the best mic for the buck I could get. Thanks again for all of you who had a say in this "debate" who helped me make up my mind!

Well thanks for all these comparisons and entertaining reads... Now I have to sell my cheap (unmentioned) mic, and xlr to mini plug (which I guess I should have never bought in the first place), and beg borrow and steal to buy a 4073a and a beachtek with phantom power...

Heh dont feel bad. My first "mic" was a $60 dollar Best buy mic connected to a long a*s xlr converter. The mic really never worked, it was just for show lol.

Hey I did something I probably shouldn't have... I decided to add up just how many dollars worth of mics I've bought over the last 3-4 years... and realize that I sold most of 'em... but the total is OVER $8K... Holy Sh*t.

My first mic was an Audio Technica ATR55 which I used for about 4 months before getting an me66... the ATR55 was $60... I bought another ATR55 for $60 thinking that I could get more coverage with an additional mic. It took the 4 months to realize that there's a reason that's the very bottom price range for mics and it's not a matter of improving technique.

Don't ever forget to get mics as close as practical for the best sound... but mics aren't like hammers. Just because you hit the nail on the head with your technique doesn't mean it's going to sound good with a crappy mic.

Hello Matt,

This is basically a big thank you for the advice and information you have given over the shotgun mic thread. I own a sony dsr250 and wanted to buy a good shotgun for weddings etc but didnt know where to start. After reading on the net and listening to your sound files i purchased an at4073a kit (foam, cable and shockmount) and a lightwave fluffy. I bought from B&H for $1050new zealand dollars delivered. To buy just the mic in new zealand cost $2000nz dollars alone! The shockmount in the kit is a Beyer Dynamic EA-86. Is this ok or would you recommend something else to upgrade to in the future?
Again, thanks heaps for all your input and time - any fool can hear that the at4073a outperforms the me66 hands down.
If i hadnt read this thread that would have been the mic i would have got!!

Thanks again guys and keep it up :)

Nathan, could you help other people considering the 4073a by posting your own samples? I would be very much interested in hearing it with and without the Lightwave.

Are you comparing a non-phantom powered mike (ME-66) with a phantom powered mike that costs twice as much money???

I just heard from someone who rented both of my ME-66's for an electronic press kit shoot at Sony Studios and he said the recorded sound was surprisingly good. He was very happy.

Microphone isolation specifications and peformance requirements can be different for different types of location recording. Sometimes slightly less mike isolation can be a good thing if you are trying to go for a real sound in a real environment versus shooting someone in a completely controlled environment.

As long as the signal to background sound ratios is well in favor of the person being miked, saying that more mike isolation is always better is not necessarily a correct statement for location shooting.

Hi Alessandro,

Sorry - I should have mentioned.
If i was to buy the me66 i would have bought the k6 module aswell as my dsr250 can power it.
The me66 / k6 / rycote softie combo is about the same price as the audio technica / lightwave combo.

In my opinion the at is a better deal

The 66 is a good mic for amateur-semiprofesional use. If you know the tricks for recording audio inside and outside, then you can achieve the same profesional results as the more expensive mics. It is a matter of knowing how to record sound and edit sound. Pc's and macs offer enough opportunities in 2004 to achieve quality sound. Why ask for more?

<<<-- Originally posted by Nathan Taylor : Hi Alessandro,

the same price as the audio technica / lightwave combo.

In my opinion the at is a better deal -->>>

Yes, I agree. The AT has a smoother, warmer sound, albeit not *quite* as hot as the 66. Plus, I find I can use the 897 in more places overall. I've been able to use it indoors on occasion, not to mention the close mic sound of it for V/0 work.