I recently tried to download NTSC video -DVout- from my Pal GS 400 to my computer and the camera gave me an "Unplayable Tape" Error. I was able to solve my problem using a Pal Sony PC110. My deduction is that the Pal GS400 won't reproduce NTSC video. Is that normal? If it is then is kind of annoying, the Sony is a consumer camera and the GS400 should be able to do more things - or at least do this thing- than the PC110. Anything buried in the Menu that will unlock the capability of reproducing NTSC video?

The exact error message was "UNPLAYABLE TAPE (OTHER FORMAT)"

You actually got a PAL PC110 to upload an NTSC encoded miniDV tape to your computer? I was under the impression that some PAL Sony miniDV cams can only play back NTSC footage "in camera" and nothing more.

Andres, for me it's the opposite thing: my NTSC GS400 shows up the same error message when I try to play a PAL tape. This is indeed kind of annoying!! Technically it should be possible to play (and even output via Firewire) the respectively other format on any DV cam! The data on the tape has the same data rate in PAL and NTSC. IMO there is just some simple "protection mechanism" integrated in the camcorder's software to prevent users from playing the "OTHER FORMAT". Somebody wants to earn twice, ne?!
Would be cool if someone could find a hidden button combination or something to enable this feature... ;)
How about a GS400 service manual? Did anyone discover it somewhere on the net already?

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : You actually got a PAL PC110 to upload an NTSC encoded miniDV tape to your computer? I was under the impression that some PAL Sony miniDV cams can only play back NTSC footage "in camera" and nothing more. -->>>

Frank, my friend also copied some PAL tapes from a NTSC Sony PD170 via Firewire into his computer.

<<<-- Originally posted by Andreas Winkler : <<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : You actually got a PAL PC110 to upload an NTSC encoded miniDV tape to your computer? I was under the impression that some PAL Sony miniDV cams can only play back NTSC footage "in camera" and nothing more. -->>>

Frank, my friend also copied some PAL tapes from a NTSC Sony PD170 via Firewire into his computer. -->>>

This maybe a "Sony only" thing. A friend of mine told me that apparently, and this may be valid only for industrial types, Sony DV cameracorders are basically the same, be it PAL or NTSC. And with the right maintenance gear you can make them record and play both norms.

My guess is it has to do with some EPROM inside, that needs to be reconfigured. But this may be a long shot.


Carlos

A few years back someone from the UK posted that his PAL TRV900 could play back NTSC miniDV tapes but couldn't convert nor upload via firewire to his computer. Maybe that has changed with newer Sonys?

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : A few years back someone from the UK posted that his PAL TRV900 could play back NTSC miniDV tapes but couldn't convert nor upload via firewire to his computer. Maybe that has changed with newer Sonys? -->>>

Apparently this access I was talking about wasn't easy and required internal management. I doubt you could get the signal in or out through firewire.

Going from PAL to NTSC or viceversa requires a lot of changes, and things have to be changed internally involving cycles, lines. etc.

Future cameras may handle it, but I wonder when.


Carlos

Frank and Carlos, my friend's NTSC Sony PD170 definately can output PAL tapes via Firewire to a computer. Thereby nothing is converted to NTSC, it's the pure PAL DV data that the computer receives.

I'll take your word for it. I've never tried it myself. I have tried to play back a NTSC tape on my MX300, though. I got lots of static. :-))

What I could find out is that the signal you get on the firewire port for signals that are not "primary" (PAL on NTSC cameras or NTSC on PAL cameras) is only useful to see on a monitor. It can not be used for anything else, like copying, editing, etc.


Carlos

In my case I did download NTSC media with the Pal PC-110. Later I did edit it with Vegas and burned a NTSC DVD with Architect 2.0, which plays great with a Pal DVD player (NTSC capable). So I deduct that with Sony Pal cameras you can play NTSC DV. I’ll have to keep a list of friends with Sony cameras, not a hard thing to do here is Spain where almost 60% of cameras sold are from that brand.

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez : ... is only useful to see on a monitor. It can not be used for anything else, like copying, editing, etc. -->>>

Carlos, can you explain this a little more please!?
IMO when you get the data stream (no matter PAL or NTSC) via Firewire into any computer you also can edit it further. Why this shouldn't be possible?

Re: "...when you get the data stream (no matter PAL or NTSC) via Firewire into any computer you also can edit it further...."

Getting the data stream to uplaod is the difficulty, when you mix PAL and NTSC cams, decks and even software.

Frank, you mean playing back to tape the edited stream? Yes, in deed, this is not possible easily.
But in my case this was not nessesary, as I just wanted to create a DVD from the finished PAL movie, that I edited and played back to PAL tape on a PAL camcorder some time ago.

No, I meant uploading PAL say from a NTSC cam or deck. In most cases it can't be done; and some NLE is only geared for either PAL or NTSC.

Yes, unfortunately this "uploading" seems only possible on some Sonys so far, although to my understanding it shouldn't be a big deal for all DV camcorders (PAL/NTSC) to play back and digitally output the respectively other format. I guess it's just blocked in the EEPROM for some reason.
Recording in the cam is another issue, but again to my understanding technically it should be also possible to record PAL and NTSC data streams via Firewire on any camcorder, as the cam doesn't have to do any coding. It just works as a tape streamer somehow and the actual PAL or NTSC specific camera part is not used, right?

I personally never used any NLE that is only PAL or NTSC specific, but might be possible this exists. ;)

NLEs are not system specific, but you can't mix NTSC or PAL data on the same job.

The person that provided that information was talking about Sony cameras, professional and prosumer types. The PC110 is probably dual system and is not a pro type, and there probably are lots of compromised involved in its design.

When I have the time I will talk with my friend more extensively about this and get back here. He is a video professional working on a very production company, so he does know what he is talking about.


Carlos