Hello everyone,

I'm meeting my first client this Saturday to talk about their wedding in June of next year. We have not discussed pricing as of yet and I'm just curious of what to charge. I've worked weddings as an assistant and fully edited all of them with Premiere Pro CS3. I use a Canon HV30 as of now and it has really given me nice footage and served me well. My idea for a base price was $850 but I really have no idea of what to charge. I don't want to get caught up and never get out of low pricing and I don't want to charge too much to cheat myself out of a job. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thank you all in advance!

EDIT:
Here's a link to my work, this was the first wedding I shot as the main camera, all the shots are mine, and I fully edited as well!: http://vimeo.com/6257214. It should be uploaded soon. Thanks again!

Hi Ferlon

You are looking at a business venture and it needs to be costed correctly. You need to decide what rate per hour you are worth and then figure out the time you will be shooting at the venue, the time you will take to edit plus client consultation and delivery time.

Plus of course, the extra costs of fuel, equipment hire (you will need 2 cameras) and any other gear you do not have. You just mention one HV30??? do you have lighting, tripods, wireless mics and lots more???

Weddings are serious business and you only get one chance at doing it right!!

I would look at your gear requirements first and then carefully cost each job otherwise you will run into serious problems!!

Chris

I'll get disagreement on this point But I'd be doing a few low/no pay weddings first. You've got the editing covered but shooting on the day is really stressful if you haven't got the gear and the client is paying for and expecting a great job.

When you see this client, what will you show them? some of the footage you've edited? - it ain't yours! and were I the shooter I'd be pretty peeved with you using it.

I think the 'theory' that you get stuck with low pricing is a fallacy - if you do low paid jobs well, then you'll certainly get referred to others with the same budget but you can move out of that group by slowly raising your prices.

check out the pricing in your area - they are your competition, come up with 3 packages that undercut them (business is business) a bare bones package, the package you really want them to buy and a top package.

That's what I'd do (have done) I'm sure people will disagree but that what a forum is all about.

I'm also working out what pricing I'm going to charge. I think it's important to stay grounded in reality as far as what others in your area are charging. That doesn't mean you should undercut them - in fact, being cheaper is not necessarily good - but being significantly higher isn't going to do you much good either.

My business costs are definitely a part of the equation, but they also have to be tempered in reality and what the market will bear. I can have a Red camera system and all the best lenses and own my own post house but if that doesn't translate into packages that the wedding market is willing to pay for, I'm out of business. So, it's capability and hourly worth coupled with realistic expectations and estimates of what the market will bear. If your work is much better than what your market will bear and you want to charge appropriately, you probably have to define and market yourself in a bigger pond.

I'll get disagreement on this point But I'd be doing a few low/no pay weddings first. No disagreement here. I did my first weddings for free.

Hi Paul

I don't disagree with you at all!!! I have been doing "affordable" wedding for ages and I get paid well for the hours I work!! OK, I don't spend 40+++ hours on an edit (around 10 hours tops!! (usually 8)) There will always be a market for budget weddings as there is a market for Hollwood style weddings too!!!

I missed the point about doing freebies. Yes, you are 100% correct as well. I did maybe half a dozen family and friend's weddings for free purely so I had some samples to show new clients!! That is absolutely essential!!! If you show someone else's work unless you were maybe 99% shooting then what they get may be completely diffrent from your samples and it's critical that they get what they expect or your name will soon be mud!!!

In Perth I shoot a full wedding for $1400 and I didn't bother to check the competition either but I believe most are a little higher but some are lower. I worked it on the fact that my time and costs are worth $70 a hour here and I spend 20 hours total on a full wedding shoot ..hence the price. You have to make sure that you make a profit so charge what you need to make a fair profit. Simple as that!!!

Chris

thanks for the responses guys!

I just mentioned the hv30, but I also have a t1i for back up video, for now, I'm planning on upgrading to a z5u when I have enough money.

MY equipment goes like this:

canon hv30 here is a pic: My Canon HV30 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25359155@N07/3853867935/)
canon rebel t1i
light panels micro
rode videomic and stereo mic
zoom h2 with lapel mic
501 hdv head with 190xprob legs from bogen imaging
I edit with Premiere Pro CS3

I guess I should have mentioned this earlier. I've uploaded a video on vimeo just now too!
By the way the stuff I've edited is fully edited by me, some shots are mine, BUT in this video these are all my shots and I was the main camera at this wedding, this is pre ceremony highlight footage that will be used for the intro to their wedding DVD! Thanks again for your advice and more is appreciated :-) thanks!

Here is the link and I'll edit my OP as well: Crystal + William on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/6257214). Give it some time to upload, Thanks!!!

Shoot low cost wedding and that all you will get. 1 maybe 2 freebies at most so you have your own footage to show. Check the other guys prices before you quote, they will be going to them. You also need a solid demo. I would start at $1000 give your self room to go down to close the deal. You will need to use that money to buy backup equipment. Attend the wedding shows to see your competition. You also need a website. Todays brides are web savvy and will want references also. What ever you do make sure you have backup equipment in case things go wrong, believe me expect things to go wrong and learn from it.

Back up equipment: plenty of batteries , tapes, business cards and one other thing dress for success, when you shoot a wedding it makes you look more professional.

One last note if you are to low priced you also price your self out of the market and brides will think your just not that good. Perception and appearance can get you work. If you do cheap work you get cheap brides.

No disagreement here. I did my first weddings for free.

I did mine for very low pay back then. Money shouldn't be your concern when you're starting out. Surviving is.

so.. no disagreement either.

I also agree with Walt. The few things you need to get soooner than later:

1. A really cool name
2. Website
3. Business Card
4. packages (spend more time on this one)
5. FAQ (you will learn a lot about your business by doing this)
6. evaluate your shooting technique
7. read more dv info threads!
8. buy gear according to dv info threads! :P
Santo

Hey Paul,

I was in your shoes several years ago and I read a lot of threads to prepare. I was shooting with 2 vx2100s and had never shot a wedding but had done plenty of editing from sporting events (totally different from weddings). I decided to charge $300 for the first wedding in which they gave me a very good tip on top of that. They were very pleased with end result even though I had no samples to show them before being hired. I probably should have done it for free for that reason, but I was confident that I would do a good job and I went out of my way to make sure I did.

No disagreement here. I did my first weddings for free.

I'm doing my first wedding for free, but ONLY to friends/family.

I went into weddings full time three years ago after 27 years in corporate and broadcast - loads of experience, great life.

Started with two Z1's, three radio mics from my corp days, did a couple of freebies, and a few weddings for about £600 (app $1200 then - the rates change). Then spent a year getting a half decent demo reel together, did eight weddings the next year for £870-1190 ($1600- $1900) each and bought a third Z1 on a radio controlled hothead. Then worked on a great demo reel - it's the element which clinches the deal, every time so spend time and effort on it. Bought a fourth radio mic and a few other pieces (glidetrack, short gun mics, Zoom H4). Now we're £1390 ($2100) per wedding and rising £200 ($300) each year.

But doing the wedding is only part of the job - you have to sell yourself as well. I spent countless Sundays at wedding fairs, gave away thousands of demo packs (demo DVD plus 4 side, A5 brochure and comparison chart - because we're a single price, all inclusive deal which looks expensive but isn't when our competitors extras are taken into account).

But the bottom line is that we're still not in profit. Sure we own all our gear - doing a wedding costs me 10-12 reels of tape and the time my wife and I put into it, but as a business it's expensive to get into and to stay in if you're doing it properly - the investment is terrifying. I estimate the thick end of $50,000 to start again and I'd be delighted if someone would prove me wrong. Corporate is much more profitable.

Plus, you'll always have a hobbyist ready to undercut you. That will always happen because the public don't always recognise the difference in quality - after all some people enjoy TV shows of 1980's VHS tapes shot from police cars.

Against all this a wedding is a great environment in which to work - no-one goes to a wedding to be miserable.

I don't spend 40+++ hours on an edit (around 10 hours tops!! (usually 8))

I slap my forehead in disbelief Chris. 10 hours tops, sometimes 8? It takes 5 hours to load the PC on a Sunday, takes 90 mins to carefully watch the finished movie before MPEG2 compression, then there's the paperwork, DVD and insert sheet to design and print, copyright clearance to obtain and countless other time-soaks even before you make your first cut, colour correction, audio sweeten or DVD burn.

Phillip's right - it's all too easy to under-charge, especially when you consider the write-off costs of equipment. It's only really tripods and mics that stay with you year after year (so spend lots on those Ferlon), all the other kit is getting older and sadder by the day.

Hobbyists will be there to undercut you, which is why your demo DVDs (I never have these - I always give a complete wedding DVD away as proof that I've not just chosen the best bits) should always be a huge step up on anything the couple have seen from Uncle Bob.

The only way to ensure that this is so is called experience, and I reckon it takes between 10 and 20 weddings before you have the right interpersonal skills and the on your toes dancing ability to be filming before important things happen.

One mother watched her daughter's wedding DVD while I was in the room. She kept turning to me and saying, 'Oh, you were so lucky to be standing there / so lucky to get that shot'. I smiled sweetly but it's nonsense of course - you make your own luck by out-thinking the humans that frequent a wedding.

tom.

.. did a couple of freebies, and a few weddings for about £600 (app $1200 then ... did eight weddings the next year for £870-1190 ($1600- $1900) each ... Now we're £1390 ($2100) per wedding and rising £200 ($300) each year.
.

SO... you can raise your prices, if you start low, you're not necessarily stuck there - thanks for the great example Philip.


I agree with your other comments too - it's a LOT of work & can be a lot of fun.

Hi Tom

Someone else said that to me too (that's where the 40+++ hours came in)!!
5 hours to just capture??? I will shoot maybe 2 hours tops on tape which means usually 3 tapes ..one for the A cam, one for the B cam and a third for speeches sometimes.
With the HMC cams I don't have to capture..just copy the source from the a + b SDcards

I usually would capture on a Sunday evening too!! My bride/groom preps are just single cam so editing is fast. Only the ceremony and speeches use both cameras so that is a tad slower. I don't "pussy-foot" around with fancy titles and spend hours perfecting an edit so most edits are slicing up the clips in Vegas to cut out the wobbly bits and then I keep transitions 99% of the time as simple crossfades. All background music is done in my SmartSound Library so it's quick and fits exactly!!

In the old days of linear editing I learnt that if you shoot "edit friendly" you save a mountain of time!!! If I'm on the ball, something like the cake cutting followed by the first dance you can virtually edit in camera so once it's on the timeline it's a super-quick operation. All my templates in both Vegas and DVD Lab are premade so when I start an edit a lot of stuff is already there to be just modified not created.

It's very simple!! it's a business and I like to make $70 an hour for my time so the average wedding has to be done in around 20 hours including the shoot!! That's my market here!!

Chris

99% of the time you use crossfades? You mean lapdissolves? In 2009? In a real time run 'n' gun situation you find bits you can edit in camera?

Yes it's a business and yes you want to make $70/hr, but forgive me - I don't think you're paying attention. But then again 20 hours tops including the wedding day itself just shows I don't know your market.

tom.

with Tom on that.
Chris - each to their own of course, and i'm glad it works for you, but it just kinda sounds wrong (i.e. no creative passion?)

p.s. 99% of the time you use crossfades?!?!?! for me, it's about 0.99% :)

p.s. 99% of the time you use crossfades?!?!?! for me, it's about 0.99% :)


Well said. If you can't resolve; dissolve.

Hello everyone,

...I'm just curious of what to charge. ... My idea for a base price was $850 but I really have no idea of what to charge. I don't want to get caught up and never get out of low pricing and I don't want to charge too much to cheat myself out of a job. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thank you all in advance!


Ferlon:

Based on the fact you are trying to make things happen for your new business, and this gig is 10 months away, you most likely will have shot at least a few weddings by June of 2010. Be confident and don't sell yourself short.

With that said, $850 as a base price sounds okay to low, but markets seem to vary pretty wildly with marketing determining the price as much as the product. No one is ever going to make any type of a living or even build an equipment base at the $850 price point.

Also, you have to take the advice from the other posters on minimum gear required.

99% of the time you use crossfades? You mean lapdissolves? In 2009? In a real time run 'n' gun situation you find bits you can edit in camera?


tom.

Tom:

Is a crossfade different from a lap dissolve?

Lap dissolve
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A lap dissolve (sometimes called a cross-fade, mix or simply a dissolve) is a technical term in film editing, most often used in the United States, applying to the process whereby the fading last shot of a preceding scene is superimposed over the emerging first shot (fade in) of the next scene, so that, for a few moments, both shots are seen simultaneously. Generally, but not always, the use of a dissolve is held to indicate that a period of time has passed between the two scenes.

Im confused.

Don't be confused; they are the same.

I also have a t1i for back up video,

The t1i is limited to 20fps in HD which is just not usable for video work - - that you intend to charge money for that is. I don't know why Canon pulls that kind of stuff. I guess they are trying to maneuver people into buying the Mark II 5D (for a lot more money) for those who want to shoot "real" video.

Hi Richard

Sorry, I was being WAY to "generic" !! I obviously use a lot of cuts but I was purely making the point that I don't use fancy transitions and effects in my market. People in my market tend to shy away from the cinematic fade to black or flash white. I try to stay away from silly transitions with little red hearts floating up the page like some do but I do try and give my brides an accurate account of what the day was about. I actually offer brides a cinematic style as well but most, if not all, will opt for documentary

I really cannot see the point of using stuff like Magic Bullet to create colour shifts away from the norm but then again whatever your market looks for you need to supply. I guess the market I am servicing are not "culture vultures" and if I did warm the footage up with a MB preset they would probably say "Why is the colour funny???"

We try to service our own particular market the way the client wants the video, not us!!

Chris

Hi Guys

I had better explain what I meant by "crossfades" Sony Vegas creates events for any clip you drop into the timeline and if you slice them up they all become more events.

Dragging a clip into another causes the software to create a "crossfade" with a time period. Two events with a cross fade of say 4 frames is essentially a cut. Only if you drag it say, 3 seconds into the other clip it would then become a lap dissolve!! So my 99% of crossfades means that most are simple cuts from one action to another and very few would actually be dragged enough to become one frame dissolving into another which, of course, is used very sparingly!!!!

Sorry for the terminology confusion but every single event I use in Vegas is crossfaded with the next but it's purely a cut from one action to the next.

Chris

Given the big variety in experience included in this thread it's really good to see some unanimity in praise of "simplicity", "cuts" and "dissolves/crossfades/lap dissolves" and a disdain for floating hearts etc. It shows considerable wisdom and good taste.

Tom, I know cuts into movement and "ignoring" time period changes are trendy but I'm old school and like Jeff said use dissolves or fade to black etc or the occasional wipe to make that easy to understand.

Having said all that I do admit to using tricksy dissolves in promos and stuff for our wedding fair programmes (we run two HD screens mounted one above the other showing short looped programmes from WD players) and sometimes use a Magic Bullet or Vitascene effects to grab the attention but for the clients' programmes it's rare I use anything other than just cuts - as someone once said, "just like real TV!"

IMO..the starting rate is ok..bit on the low scale but very good rate for a starter. I did my first wedding for 300 dollers and that was 15-20 hours of footage (full blown indian wedding) using a cheapo sd camera. The problem you face is that there are lots of 'kid's out there with HD cameras who would easily compete with you for price. What iam hoping they will not be able to compete with is the quality.

Best way to move forward in this field is create a style and content that is you and people who like what you do, they will gladly pay for the package.

I think perhaps this belongs to another thread but I think the last line has a lot of sense for all of us. Anish makes a good point.

Because of our backgrond we know how to do proper interviews ie not video booth and include them as a feature of all our programmes. It's the one consistent "selling" element and couple always declare it to be the clinch factor when choosing us.

The downside to Anish's recommendation is that there's always the danger that our programmes become formulaic - but making them not so is part of the fun.

My route..... I did two for free. Then 2 for $300. Then one for $500. Then two for $600. Then a few for $900 and then the rest for $1,100. That covers all 6 years of my business. I didn't charge above $1k until Nov 07, which was my 4th year in business.

Grow your prices as your experience grows. I also spent all the income for every year except this year, to pay for gear. I never borrowed money, but I did rent gear the first 4 years. So I'm debt free (for now.... until I buy a 150 or ex1)

I was not confident charging a lot until I knew I was worth it (and when I could absolutely blow away everyone else's videos in the valley except Travis C. here).

To start with - don't forget the basics! Listen to the guys here for their opinions on equipment (and I do mean listen). Film a few weddings for free (contact your local church/registry office - they will pass on your offer to any willing brides with zero budget). Your first wedding on your own will be the worst, full of mistakes and nerves. It is only then you can start to hone your skills. 10-20 weddings will be what it takes to get things right.

Every client has their own particular taste as every wedding video has their own style (be it generic/dynamic/cheesey). The key thing will be to know who you are marketing your product to.

For example:
Client 1 will consider any grading, time lapse editing, or editor creativity to not be a their reflection of their day.
Client 2 will love all these creative choices as it makes their DVD stand out from all the others.
Client 3 loves page wipes, floating hearts, and slllloooooooow motion - client 3 should have their head re-examined (IMHO).

So when you think to the future and build your style, you still have to keep a carefull mind on your target audience.

To start with - don't forget the basics! Listen to the guys here for their opinions on equipment (and I do mean listen). Film a few weddings for free (contact your local church/registry office - they will pass on your offer to any willing brides with zero budget). Your first wedding on your own will be the worst, full of mistakes and nerves. It is only then you can start to hone your skills. 10-20 weddings will be what it takes to get things right.

Every client has their own particular taste as every wedding video has their own style (be it generic/dynamic/cheesey). The key thing will be to know who you are marketing your product to.

For example:
Client 1 will consider any grading, time lapse editing, or editor creativity to not be a their reflection of their day.
Client 2 will love all these creative choices as it makes their DVD stand out from all the others.
Client 3 loves page wipes, floating hearts, and slllloooooooow motion - client 3 should have their head re-examined (IMHO).

So when you think to the future and build your style, you still have to keep a carefull mind on your target audience.

you forgot client 4: this one don't know which category they are in, but they know for sure they want discount!

:P

btw, i shot 20+ weddings but I still can't get it right the way i want it every time. I think it takes more than that to be really comfortable of shooting a wedding. you cook 20 pancakes then you will surely get it right, but not weddings...

Santo

Susanto:

You just need more cameras for more angles and more audio sources. If you have enough of each to pick from, you have a lot easier time of it.

Jason:

I understand where you are coming from, but IMO you have been way too inexpensive in the past and even now. Forget what you think you are worth starting out, step up and charge close to your market area prices right away or it just makes it harder on everyone.

If you have $10K worth of gear (2 cams & wireless & digital audio gear and PC, etc.) and figure a 3 year depreciation, it's $166 per wedding (20 weddings a year) for equipment depreciation plus your hard costs before you even look at profitability.

Thank you everyone for all the comments!!! I really appreciate them and you've all helped out a great deal! Thanks again!

Ferlon:

Based on the fact you are trying to make things happen for your new business, and this gig is 10 months away, you most likely will have shot at least a few weddings by June of 2010. Be confident and don't sell yourself short.

With that said, $850 as a base price sounds okay to low, but markets seem to vary pretty wildly with marketing determining the price as much as the product. No one is ever going to make any type of a living or even build an equipment base at the $850 price point.

Also, you have to take the advice from the other posters on minimum gear required.

Okay, thanks! I don't want to make any huge mistakes on pricing, what would you start out charging?

OK here's the thing. Someone in Virgina or Texas or Chicago would be hard pressed to suggest a starting price for Detroit. Each market is unique in it's demographics and economy so it would be nearly impossible to guess what you should be charging starting out in the business.
My suggestion would be to look at other videographers in your area see what their pricing is and what they offer for that money and adjust your pricing accordingly. Google would be your friend for this. Remember not everyone posts their prices but enough do so you should be able to get a good read for that.
remember it's not just pricing but what the client gets for that price. Don't be blasted by the really cheap people nor by the top most expensive people. Actually I would take the cheapest and the most expensive toss them and average out the rest then adjust you prices to that.