http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/handycam/PRODUCTS/HDR-FX1/index.html

It's still consumer model; will be out pro-sumer version later. (like PD)

But only in Japan?

Ken,

They haven't announced yet, so far only in Japan now.

1080i no 24p but it does have a "cinegamma", 3 chips and a great lens.

DIG IT!

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-Announces-High-Definition1080i-HDR-FX1-First-3-CCD-HDV-Camcorder.htm

Also notice it is using the full 25megs per second bandwidth capabilities while the jvc was using 19.7

Sweet.

Hmmm no xlr...guess that's for the "pro" version...and 720p perhaps?

There are a lot of us early HDV adopters here that are very happy right now.

It's been a long haul, but we're finally going to get what we've wanted....full manual controls on a 3-chip HDV camera! The "Pro" version will be under $7,000 too! It's almost $3,000 more than I've ever paid for a camera, but I am going to do it.

I have a JVC HD10U that will be for sale in the "first quarter of 2005".

Murph

The HDR-FX1 camcorder will be available in November for about $3,700.

I got from Gabor Lacza(DV Info Net > High Definition HDV: The Next Wave > JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U) I posted there also, same time.

Sep. 07, 2004
SONY UNVEILS WORLD¡ÇS FIRST HDV 1080i CONSUMER CAMCORDER

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/511

It's an official now in U.S.

Sony likes to sell consumer model like VX1000 first, then PD150. It's same marketing strategy. Pro-sumer model has XLR.

http://www.hdv-info.org/

Panasonic will introduce HD-P2

http://www.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle/articles/0405/06/l_jn_sany0024.jpg
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle/articles/0405/06/l_jn_sany0025.jpg

HD-DV native. compression 4¡§1¡§1(same as DVCPRO 50) not 4¡§2¡§0 (HDV)

What size is the Lens? It looks like 72mm

WoooHo!!

I've been waiting for this a log time, MAN WAS THIS a Shock!!!!

Anyway how soon will there be a PAL version??

<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Harris : What size is the Lens? It looks like 72mm -->>>Yes, you are right 72mm Zeiss Contax (Kyocera) Lenses

<<<-- Originally posted by Anhar Miah : WoooHo!!

I've been waiting for this a log time, MAN WAS THIS a Shock!!!!

Anyway how soon will there be a PAL version?? -->>>They have been announced for 25P. I hope it coming out on Nov. 2004.

Ok, now I have a question in regards to all the specs out there now on this new HDV camera from Sony.

Anyone have any idea what the "pro" version will have? This HDV camera seems to have quite a bit for the money. I just read that the "pro" version will have XLR connections, but that can't justify $3,000?? My guess is "Optical" disc harddrive on-board or some other major thing that this camera doesn't have on it.

Any else have a guess? I'm really curious as to what the "pro" will have...someone has to know??

Murph

A/D converter: 14bit A/D. 14bit DXP improved to 14bit HD DXP digital analogue to digital converting is 120% faster than DCR-VX2100. ¿®¹æ½èÍý®ÅÙ¤ò20¡ó¥¢¥Ã¥×¡ÊDCR-VX2100Èæ¡Ë¤µ¤»¤Þ¤·¤¿¡£16,384 color range of dynamic are clear as balck is black and white is pure white. ³¬Ä´¤ÎåÌÌ©¡Ê¤Á¤ß¤Ä¡Ë¤Êɽ¸½¤Ë¤è¤ê¡¢Äã¾ÈÅÙ²¼¤ä¹õ¤¤Èï¼ÌÂΤò»£±Æ¤¹¤ëºÝ¤Î¥Î¥¤¥º¤òÄ㸺¡£¤Þ¤¿¡¢¹âµ±ÅÙ»£±Æ»þ ¤ÎÇò¥È¥Ó¤òÍÞÀ©¤·¡¢¹âÀººÙ¤Ê±ÇÁü¤òÃé¼Â¤ËºÆ¸½¤·¤Þ¤¹¡£that they are saying; you can shoot what you can see it and will appears on a HD screen.
Truth is: I haven't tried this one. I'm an user of DVW-700-750-900F.
I'll report to you my first impression of this little one after my first experience.

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy :
Anyone have any idea what the "pro" version will have? This HDV camera seems to have quite a bit for the money. I just read that the "pro" version will have XLR connections, but that can't justify $3,000?? My guess is "Optical" disc harddrive on-board or some other major thing that this camera doesn't have on it.

Any else have a guess? I'm really curious as to what the "pro" will have...someone has to know??

Murph -->>>
XLR connectors, switshable from 1080i to 720p, 24fps recording mode?

XLR connectors....they better or I will be P.O'ed!

I'd like to see optical disc support with higher than 25mb per second. Maybe they'll have 50 or 100mb on a removeable disc and it records up to 3 hours like full-size DVCAM? If they do that it'll probably be the best video camera ever built for the money.

Murph

Murph,
I've seen Sony's prototype of HD XDCAM.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040527/nhk40.jpg

It's 50Mbps/MPEG2, 45min for a 23GB single layer disc.

oh my gosh. how exciting :D. come on Canon get your arse into gear now lads!! ;)

Masahiro,

Is that way over $7,000? If so, it's probably not in my budget range. Do you have any other info about it?

Murph

There are some in-depth articles about this new camera over at camcorderinfo.net. They say a pro version is expected March 2004 for around $7,000 but no further details.

But this "consumer" version looks mighty nice! Hell, I already have a Beachtek box from my VX-2000 :-) I think there are some really great features here that have nothing to do with HDV and should be included on the PD-170. I really like the quantity and design of the manual controls for focus, zoom, iris, gain, audio. FINALLY a servo lens with calibrated zoom and focus stops! And a native 16:9 250,000 pixel LCD. That's a big improvement over letterboxing 16:9 on a 200,000 pixel screen.

It also shoots 16:9 and 4:3 DV. Of course we'll have to see how it performs and give them some time to shake out all the bugs. But it sure looks like a winner to my eyes.

I noticed there is a psuedo 24p mode with the mention of CineFrame24.

I'm willing to bet that with the $3000 jump to the pro model, Sony will include true progressive 24 and 30p modes. What else would warrent that much of an increase?

Who knows? Maybe it's a shoulder mount design, as the DSR-250 is to the PD-150?... I'm sure all this will be revealed before too long.

3k is a huge price jump for the pro model, I mean 24p is a software fix...xlr is a couple hundred bucks...

I think we are talking some kind of harddrive capture mechanism.

I'd like to believe that, Michael, but if it has a hard drive then it's no longer "HDV." It becomes only "HDV compatible." The legal policies of the HDV consortium have mandated that a product can have the HDV logo only if it uses an HDV cassette.

From http://www.hdv-info.org/trademk.htm:

"(2) License of HDV trademarks

HDV and HDV logo will be licensed only to the tape drive products which can record and play video cassette compliant to the HDV Format (HDV Tapes). The HDV trademarks may not be used on any products without a such tape drive."

Go figure.

Damon,

Agree with you on Canon needing to get their rear in gear...

I've been patiently waiting and waiting -- like everyone else -- for HDV but figured it might be a while yet since Canon released the XL2 as an SD camera, albeit the penultimate SD cam. (This is where I begin softly sobbing). So, why oh why did Sony wait to announce their HDV 3-chipper until the week AFTER Canon released the XL2?

Ah, well. It's just money!

I'd really like to see what Panny comes out with and how soon it will be realeased. Canon could probably stand by the XL2, but might have to drop the price a little (who am I kidding, you guys wanna start a pool on how long before the XL2S?). HD with 24p will likely kill off the DVX100, and if they relaese their HD model with a P2 recording system it definitely won't be HDV, like Chris said. Maybe that's why they didn't accept the format? These are great times (thank god I haven't bought a cam in awhile)!

PS - I don't know if I missed it, so is this cam capable of SD recording? I think that will still be a valuable feature for quite some time.

FRom http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5118

"And for ultimate control, the iris, gain, white balance, shutter speed and focus can also be adjusted manually. "

why can't JVC do this on their HDV cameras?

Something else I noticed that's funny...In one of Sony's press releases...

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200409/04-0907bE/

...they mention all the editing systems to support their new cam...EXCEPT their own Sony Vegas? I though Vegas 5 already supported HDV? Why wouldn't it be on their list?

<<<-- Originally posted by Jesse Bekas : PS - I don't know if I missed it, so is this cam capable of SD recording? I think that will still be a valuable feature for quite some time. -->>>

Yes, it shoots both 4:3 and 16:9 SD and records DVSP and DVLP.

Well this really excited me when iseen it last night. But before i went to bed i realised i read "960x1080 3CCDs".... hmm so let me get this right.. 960x1080 interpolated to 1440x1080i then displayed at 1920x1080? Oh nice...... NOT!!! :( Why do they always do this to us? So many pixels claimed yet only half are effective!!

Pity.. as the features of this camera could be a killer and make me switch to Sony :P But not if the PQ and resolution is no where near HIGH DEFINTION!!!! gggrrr

Can we get a detailed explaination from someone (in idiot terms) in regards to the pixel count? I understand the numbers aren't adding up, but I think we all could use a simple explaination. The way I'm reading it is that what goes in isn't what's coming out? The lower pixel count to start is only being interpolated afterwards to fill in the missing pixels??

Murph

Man...

I'm thinking how groundbreaking this camcorder might be...

Imagine being able to actually shoot/or have someone shoot an important event like a wedding in High Definition.

Be able to edit it on a consumer machine.

Output it to perhaps WM9 HD? And deliver the DVD to the customer with a DVD player that can play Windows Media 9 discs?

Or have them play it off a PC in true high-def from a DVD.

Or just dump it to D-VHS?

And the customers end product could be 2 disc set...one SD version DVD and a WM9 HD-DVD...

woo hoo..

This is exciting times.

You can make the movie with 1080i, edit in HDV, deinterlace, scale to size, 720 x 576(480) 16:9 and make a better DVD.

I guess the main point to me is to make a filmlook DVD, or HD. Never gonna transfer to film.

Christopher,

I'm not entirely sure how the system works myself but I did find the following info elsewhere:

"A brand new design, the CCDs will each be 960x1080 pixels in layout. Even more significant than this megapixel count is that each pixel will have the size and shape necessary to support 16:9 natively! (In video work, pixels are never square, but vary with each set of standards.) By having the CCD’s pixels optimized in shape for 16:9 mode, there will be no “input” resolution lost and no need for interpolation of regular squared CCD pixels into the 4:3 and 16:9 video formats. A small side effect will be that there will need to be interpolation to do the 4:3 mode. This is a minor detail however with the overall much higher resolution of the CCD when compared to the 720x480 DV compatibility mode. This camcorder was designed around HDV which is ALL 16:9 and choosing to make the CCD 16:9 with wide pixels is a tremendous step in achieving the best output quality possible."

Again, I'm not sure I fully understand....

"The interlaced 1080i provides for a grid of up to 1920x1080 pixels! Some implementations use 1440 "wide" pixels (1440x1080) which still looks far better than SD widescreen."

The sensors on the chips are rectangular, but not square. This is similar to how some DV cameras get HQ widescreen even though the SDDV format is natively 4:3. Technically, the cam does record HDV, but doesn't "see" it. Resolution will be taking a hit.

That Panasonic Camera looks like it might make some waves. What is this P2 format?

It's a flash memory recording system, currently consisting of four 1GB SD cards housed in a single PCMCIA (laptop cards) housing. Then the PCMCIA cards are four deep, providing 16GB of flash memory. That's how the system exists right now in one of their ENG cams which debuted last year(?).

A Panasonic rep told me at DVExpo East that they would have an afforadable Palmcorder shaped model using 4GB SD cards in 1 PCMCIA housing available in March '05. This recording system (non-tape) could be a reason they avoided agreeing to use the HDV spec. I am extremely interested in flash recording . It could eliminate transport noise, get better than realtime capture rates, and lengthen battery life, etc...I am waiting to her what Panny will have to say about this, and hope some new comes soon.

I read on another website that this model has a 12X zoom range, with a 33.5mm to 390mm focal length. That's what it said, but how is that possible? That 390mm would seem to give a huge magnification effect, but the lens would also have no wide-angle with 33.5mm at the bottom end.
Naah, that must have been a misprint??

Also, it's too bad about it not having progressive scan. Think of the great still-captures you could grab from its footage, if it had progressive.

I wonder how well the "new and improved"
HDV metal-evaporated tape would work in a standard DV recorder? At $18. an hour?
But yet I once paid $32. over the counter for a 30-min. Beta SP cassette. It was at the only pro video store in a small town and I needed it badly.

Steve McDonald

Each of the 3 CCDs of the FX1 is 1/3-inch and has 1080 X 960 pixels. That's just half of the 1920 pixels used by a camera with the full 1080 HDTV specification, to produce its horizontal resolution. They claim the FX1 camera delivers a pixel size of 1080 X 1440, but the 1440 must be derived from the same extrapolation process they use to claim a higher pixel image from digital cameras, than the actual pixels that their CCDs have.

Considering the dumbing-down of HDTV to the M-PEG2 format that is recorded on HDV and what is broadcast as HDTV, it probably won't make any visible difference. You're not going to convert HDV to film-----are you?

Steve McDonald

I just can't follow. Isn't it right if I say, the XL2 720x576 (pal) progressive going to be the same image quallity than the 1080i recorded as interlace and played back as a 720p?

Lasse, the 720 number in the XL2 CCD specifications, represents the pixels that are aligned horizontally along each of the 576 visible scanning lines, in a PAL video picture, in the DV CoDec. The 720 in the specifications for a 720P High-definition picture, is the number of horizontal scanning lines, that carry the pixels. There would be more than twice as many pixels in the 720P down-conversion, from a 1080I original, as there are in a standard DV picture in the PAL System. So, the resolution from an XL2 would be significantly less than the HDTV picture you described.

Steve McDonald

How do you think the DVX100 will look when compared to the new sonyHD cam when its in regualar DV (720 x480)???

Trying to "compare" the Sony image to other cameras is nothing but wild speculation at this point. It would have been nice if there was a true progressive mode on this camera, but somewhere I read that they chose interlaced so that it would be possible to go to 24 fps in post for a film print. I'm sure there is controversy over this, but from what I've read you really can't do that on the JVC camera since you're locked into 30p.

What about Century Optics lenses. Would it be a good time to call century and SUGGEST that the .3 ultra fisheye doesnt vignette on the TV. I have the panny dvx100 with .3 fisheye 72mm and it vignettes on the TV in the lower left corner and i hate it.

October 15th ARRRRR!!....

I cant wait that long ! jus jokin :)
I really hope there is a pro verson, although theres no news on this matter so far.

But the most important for me and others in PAL-land is whether there will be a PAL version.

i really hope (Sony pay attentio if your listening) that they dont pull another JVC PD1 type shamble.

HD for the Indie just got that little bit closer.

"they mention all the editing systems to support their new cam...EXCEPT their own Sony Vegas? I though Vegas 5 already supported HDV? Why wouldn't it be on their list?"

Sony already did a press realease RE: HD when they release V5...

Vegas has no issues with HD format files.. basically this cam (as well as the new JVC ) will be recording HD in STD DV, not mpg2, as mpg2 will be encoded during the render stage of the edit..not the recording stage ... id hate to think how long a render will take..

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040907/sony1.htm

Peter, I don't know what you're referring to when you say this cam will record in STD DV? This cam will record in the HDV spec, which is mpeg2 compressed all the way. It's no surprise that Vegas would support this camera, as it already support the JVC HDV camera. What I'm more interested in is the 25 Mb/s as opposed to the JVC 19Mb/s. Does the HDV spec allow for even higher bitrates, such as the 50Mb/s varieties like DVCPro?

Could a future HDV camera use the existing 50Mb/s or even 100Mb/s on a DV (full or mini) size tape? It seems that at those bitrates, the mpeg2 compression that so many people are complaining about would become a moot point.

Also, what is this "psuedo 24p" mode? How exactly does that work? What are the possible issues about conversion from 1080 60i to 24p film, for us indie guys?

*EDIT: sorry, I didn't realise the bulk of the discussion had moved to the JVC thread. MODS: How about giving this camera it's own category next to the JVC???

Did it happen in NY or wherever? The usual suspects are quiet - has anyone seen this cam in person?

Wow, just shipped back my order of 6 XL2's - left the boxes unopened so I hope I get full credit.

Tsk. tsk. If only Canon R&D got their fingers out of their butt-holes long enough and took the extra 5 minutes of thinking and effort to put out the HD XL2 everyone wanted... Well, at least we have the 2.5 inch flip out LCD - and XLR!

big sarcastic grin here, folks. Please don't flame.