I'm not sure if I have an explanation for it. It might just be
something it wrong with the camera, of course. I would at least
not use the stabilizer (not that it should create such problems,
but better safe than sorry) since you don't need it anyway.

Anyone have a better idea?

thanks rob,

i have read that on a couple posts - "turning the stabilizer off" as a possible solution to focusing problems - i'm not sure i understand how this effects the focus?

and i do need it, ideally, as i walk 360 degrees around him with it handheld and then set it down softly in the sand in front of him- so i would like to use the stabilizer if at all possible...

thx rob.

a thought...

could it have something to do with pointing the camera in the direction of the sun?? does a lot of direct sunlight into the lens screw it up somehow, causing it to not focus properly??

will using the time lapse feature on the camera possibly remedy this??

help!!! we're reshooting this saturday and i don't want my team's morale to drop because of another botched shoot due to camera malfunction... any thoughts are MUCH appreciated!!!!

Scott,
This same issue comes up several times each year. The lens is probably not really in manual focus mode. Remember, there are two exclusive types of "manual" on the camera: "M" mode exposure control and Manual Focus (switched via the button on the lens). "MF" must show in your viewfinder to verify the focus mode.

If MF is truly engaged and verified in the viewfinder and wandering still occurs I suggest turning the camera off, removing BOTH batteries, dismounting the lens and -carefully- cleaning those electronic contacts on the mount. It's possible that the electrical communication between lens and body are being corrupted and/or the camera needs to be reset (by removing the batteries for 10 min or so).

One other suggestion, perhaps related to your problem: don't use shutter speed to control exposure. I noticed you're shooting a 1/250, presumably to control exposure. Unless you're trying to achieve a specific visual effect by using a fast shutter speed leave it at 1/60 and control your exposure with your iris and neutral density filtration (internal and external if required).

Good luck.

i am almost 100% certain it was in both Manual modes, but i will be extra careful that the MF switch on the lens is all the way over in the future... if it is just barely not locked into the MF position, could it cause problems like this?

videography is relatively new to me, so please excuse my ignorance, but i never new to shoot (almost i assume) exclusively at 1/60. what exactly does this do for me? if there are tons of posts on this just point me to one of them... but how then do i control my DOF if the shutter speed is constant? what if my subject is moving quickly? what if i'm zoomed all the way in on my telephoto? still 1/60? the general rule for still photo is 1/focal length to eliminate camera shake and capture still motion- is this out the window?

ah- one last thing- what's the best way to clean the contacts? alcohol and a q-tip??

THANK YOU KEN!

Originally posted by Scott Reus :if it is just barely not locked into the MF position, could it cause problems like this? When it comes to electromechanical gear anything is possible. But if the MF indicator appears in the viewfinder, the camera at least thinks that the lens is in manual focus.

videography is relatively new to me, so please excuse my ignorance, but i never new to shoot (almost i assume) exclusively at 1/60. what exactly does this do for me? if there are tons of posts on this just point me to one of them... but how then do i control my DOF if the shutter speed is constant? what if my subject is moving quickly? what if i'm zoomed all the way in on my telephoto? still 1/60? the general rule for still photo is 1/focal length to eliminate camera shake and capture still motion- is this out the window? 1/60 sec is the native shutter speed for NTSC video. Remember, shutter speed on video cameras is not the same property as it is on film cameras; there is no shutter on a video camera. This camera always records at 30 frames/sec. Shutter speed is essentially a CCD sampling frequency. Changing the shutter speed on a video camera has other effects on the image, best exhibited by experimentation. Bottom line on this: on many bright subjects you can raise your shutter speed to around 1/100 without too much apparent affect. Beyond that you will notice a difference in image. As a rule, act as if the camera had no shutter speed other than 1/60 and control your exposure as I noted above.

Re: DOF, on your XL1s the iris and lens zoom are the key determinants of DOF. (Search for DOF as we have thousands of posts on this subject.) Bottom line: with a 1/3" CCD camera you have relatively limited ability to control DOF. Move the camera back and zoom-in to get an apparent shallower DOF (although with the side effect of flattening your primary target).

One other observation: be sure the camera does not become overheated while shooting 40 mins. of sunset. Very unusual phenomena can occur to hot electronic equipment.

I would suggest you do some experimentation before your next official shoot.

ah- one last thing- what's the best way to clean the contacts? alcohol and a q-tip??Use denatured alcohol and DO NOT to use a cotton swab. Use a foam swab designed for cleaning electronic components to avoid fiber residue.

thanks ken, i will take all of that into consideration and do some experiments before the next shoot.

this site is such a great resource- thanks all!

Scott-- i've run into this problem on both of the XL1's i've owned. between 2 XL1S's and 3 different 16x IIS auto lenses, the cameras would (occasionally) lose focus, even though set to manual focus, on M mode.

It seemed to happen more in low light coditions.. but I know on several occasions (maybe 1/3 of them in bright light), we would set the camera(s) for fixed focal length, assume we were gathering a bunch of good footage while just rolling between takes/etc.. and upon review the camera had lost focus halfway through or whenever, despite not being touched. I attribute this to the XL1S 16x IIs lens being a servo autofocus. With a TRUE manual focus lens, this shouldnt ever happen, obviously.

My suggestion would be to try and shoot another 40 minute sequence (without actors) after cleaning contacts, etc. If it still does it.. then you'll have to shoot the 40 minute scene with a monitor/viewfinder, and be ready to snap back the focus anytime it loses it. Luckily, i would think that would work, since if you're shooting to compress a 40 minute sequence into a few mins/seconds.. then if it loses focus for even 10 seconds before you refocus, that should noyl be fractions of a second in the final sequence (and with all the other jutter and motion in sped up footage i doubt anyone would notice).

glad to hear i'm not alone on this one...

good advise, adam, thanks. i'll hook up my monitor next time and won't think to walk away from the camera again... what a bummer about that lens, eh?! i must say i am dissappointed. like many of the posts on this forum say, i love the stabilization- hate the quarky focussing issues. just seems like a no-brainer to leave manual, manual- especially for a product like the XL1s and especially from a company like canon! live and learn....

one of these day's i'll buy the 16x manual

many thanks. good thoughts....

I'm wondering if the lens is maybe calibrating itself every now
and then? Not even sure if this makes sense or is possible. But
it's a thought that entered my mind (a bit like non A/V harddisks
calibrating for temperature changes). It would be silly if it did this
whilst recording, ofcourse.

Adam's suggestion is good. And even if a frame does end up
visible you can always cut that one frame out in the end file and
no-one will miss it that way either.

---> Use denatured alcohol and DO NOT to use a cotton swab. Use a foam swab designed for cleaning electronic components to avoid fiber residue. <---

A good way to clean gold plated contacts is with a nice CLEAN pencil eraser. Rub VERY GENTLY then follow up with foam pad and denatured alcohol.

The problem is that gold oxide is clear and even though the contacts appear to be clean, they may in fact have some oxide built up on them and won't conduct very well.

I have used this method on circuit board edge connectors for over 20 years as an electronics technician.

Indeed, Greg, the mild abrasion of a pencil eraser like the classic Pink Pearl (still available everywhere) is a great and safe cleaner! In this particular situation, however, it will be difficult to apply due to the smallness of the lens/mount contacts and the fact that they are slightly inset. Difficult, but not impossible. You could carefully carve the end of a Pink Pearl to fit into the contact recesses. One note of caution for anyone attempting this: take your time and be extremely careful that you do eliminate any eraser dust residue from the lens and, most importantly, from the body mount area. One tiny little shaving attaching to the CCD filter will make for a very unhappy shooter!

Ken,

Very true. I forgot to give the warning about eraser shavings near the ccds. I agree it would be hard to get to the lens side contacts, however, on my XL-1 they don't appear to have gold plating. The body side contacts do have gold plating on them and my earlier post was directed towards those contacts although I failed to mention that.

Again, if anyone does this, the key word is, RUB GENTLY! The gold plating is very thin and you could rub right through it.

On a side note..does anyone know where the lens serial number is located? I can't find it and I threw the lens box away a while back.

regards,

Greg,
The serial number on the 16X IS II (standard) lens is located opposite those electronic contacts on the body-end of the lens. You should be able to see the number engraved in that black semi-circular plate.

Thanks Ken! Although I have the first generation IS lens, your instructions were correct. It's not engraved very deeply and I have a hard time seeing it even knowing where to look.

Again, many thanks for that info.

regards,

Need help befor I send this xl1s to a repair shop>

I had this xl1s for about two years. I have used 140 tapes.
On my last recording I noticed that I coulden't focus on wide angle but when I zoom in it is as sharp as it could be.

is the problem with lense or the body.

Befor I call or send it to canon dealer I want to get an idea.

Please help.

Thanks

Wayne

Hard to assess the problem based on so little information. Off-hand I'd speculate that your lens' back-focus may be out of calibration. If you're using a manual lens you can fix this yourself. If not, off to Canon service.

Wayne,
Did you send the lens with the camera body when it went to the repair facility?

Curious...which repair facility did you send it to...West coast or East coast? I'm afraid one is superior to the other in terms of quality of work and turn around time.....

I have been using the Canon XL1-s for a couple of years now. I had never had any problems until it started to eat tapes, so I sent it in to the Canon Factory last month. After the camera came back, it is having focusing problems:

I am using the manual (M) setting with a manual white-balance and gain at 0. When I zoom into and focus, everything is fine...as SOON as I zoom out to a wide shot the focus becomes VERY BLURRY!!!! The picture turns to mush. I have tried all different settings and the EXACT same thing happens every time. This is really bad for me because I have two solid days of shooting starting tomorrow afternoon.

I have read the many posts on this board about focus problems and none of the suggestions are solutions to my problem. I change settings, zoom SLOWWWWLY, EVERYTHING...I have been trying to get this problem solved for the last 10 hours and have reached a dead end at every pass.

Apparently this problem is a back-focus issue...If it is a back focus issue is there a fix to the problem before 2PM tomorrow afternoon, or am I just screwed?

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks!

--I know I sound a bit frustrated. I am.

Hello Mark,
It does, indeed, sound like a back-focus issue.

You did not specify the lens you're using but I'm assuming it's the 16x auto (white) lens. This lens has no owner-adjustable back-focus adjustment. I've been told that the lens is actually designed to adjust itself continuously, although I've not been able to verify this authoritatively.

However, under the assumption that there may be some truth to this remark, you might consider cleaning the electronic contacts between the camera and body. I would imagine that any kind of "continuous" focus calibration would require communication with the camera body. I recommend using a -new- Pink Pearl eraser very, very gently, taking care not to get any shavings into the camera or lens. Just a few gentle rubs should ensure that any contaminants are removed.

If this does not affect a remedy, I am sorry to tell you that you'll have to send the camera+lens back to Canon again.

Thank you for the response Ken...I will try the eraser.

If in fact the problem is generated as Ken's suggest, typically, with electrical component/contacts, a very minute occurance of filliform corrosion has developed. Simply performing a disconnect/connect of the lens should correct this.

I find this discussion of compelling interest as I have had the same problem with my XL1 and the 16X auto lens. I was on a shoot and ignorantly left the camera sitting in the hot sun for a protracted period of time. The lens began making a whirring sound continuously, but it did not appear to affect the focus or the iris. If the suggestion above of a motorized back-focus is indeed true, perhaps this was my problem, because immediately after this event (after the noise stopped and I let the camera cool for a while), I had the same loss of focus in going from telephoto to wide. I was very concerned as I certainly knew there was no back-focus adjustment accessible. The problem disappeared shortly thereafter, suggesting that the lens recovered and reset the proper back-focus. I would really like to get more information on this function.

I would really like to get more information on this function.
Me, too. But I've not come across any. My "source" for this tidbit was actually a fellow named Greg Salmon who was presenting a seminar on the XL1S for Birns & Sawyer in Hollywood (http://www.birnsandsawyer.com/cgibin/BIRstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Seminars). I was reviewing his presentation on a B&S dvd and he mentioned this little tidbit while reviewing the lens. Greg is listed as being with "Technical Services" for Canon, so...<shrug>

Here is an update of my situation. Yesterday I used the XL1-s (with a GL2 as backup) in a white studio for about 15 different interviews. I did the eraser trick as Ken suggested. The focus problem did not disappear completely, however it did not seem to be as severe as it was before. So, I think that the combination of the eraser and the white background (no colors or patterns) might have helped. So I have no definative answer. I have another shoot today and will keep you all posted. Thank you all for your help and suggestions!

I kept running into a similar problem with my stock 16x lens.

So this is what I did:

1 -- remove the 16x lens. Install the rear element cap. Place the stock lens on a shelf.

2 -- install a 16x manual lens.

Works now! :-)

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions.

Yep! Same problem here. I ended up buying the 16x manual (works like a charm!). I only use the AF one if I needed the IS.

I am buying the 16X manuel lens today!!!

Because I have not encountered this problem since that incident, I am not prepared to spend well over $1000 for the auxiliary lens, unless there are other benefits. Specifically, I have always been a bit disappointed with the softness of the images I experience with the XL1 and have wondered if the manual lens would give a sharper image on the XL1 than the original 16X auto lens. I understand that the XL1s with the Mark II auto lens produces a sharper image. Since there appears to be no change in the CCD on the XL1s, I have wondered if a better lens would give a sharper image on the XL1. I have not seen a direct comparison of these two lenses, although Ken Tanaka's article implies that the manual is a sharper lens. Can anyone comment on whether the manual lens has sharpened their image on an XL1?

Larry,
I didn't recall remarking that the 16x (or 14x) manual lenses were sharper than the 16x auto lens. But then I read the following sentence in my "Summary": "The 16x Manual Servo lens is perhaps the sharpest tool available for XL1/XL1S shooters who need more precision in their imaging.". The word "sharpest" was strictly a metaphor.

I cannot honestly tell you that the manual lens is sharper than the standard lens. Having both, I would have to say that it's a draw on that meter. They're both actually not bad on that front, particularly considering the size and resolution of their target.

Before you sell your 16x auto lens to fund the purchase of the 16x manual lens, however, I advise you to consider the type of shooting you actually do with the camera and your likely commitment to acquiring full-time manual focusing skills. It is not a trivial skill to acquire and failing to do so may ultimately produce worse results on average than the 16x auto lens. For many XL1 owners who only shoot occasionally and/or casually, the auto lens is actually the better tool.

Ken, Thanks for your quick response. I think you have hit the nail on the head and I will save my money to apply to the XL2 (!). Although I use my XL1 exclusively on a tripod for rather static set ups (church events and stand-up narrative), I probably would regret the loss of auto-aided and especially remote LANC controlled focus. Certainly I've gotten no complaints about what I perceive as soft images and I can easily live with what I've got until something convinces me to move on.

Hi folks,

I am based in Northern ireland and have recently set up my own part time business specialising in wedding video/dvd etc.

I am fairly new to all this but have produced a number of dvd,s now with very very good feedback.

i have just finished filming another wedding and have been reviewing the footage on tv.

i am vey dissapointed. Because of the location etc i have to be able to lift the camera and shoot at any time. this means tht i do a lot of the shooting in Auto mode. my problem is that if i was filming a simple shot of the bride and groom during the first dance an obviously they are moving around the dance floor, the lens is jumping in and out of focus all the time. it seems to want to focus on all different parts of their bodies as they are moving. this has happened on every project so far.

The same thing happens when I am filming a full dance floor. he camera is jumping all over the place trying to focus in on whoever is going past.

If I am filming the guests shaking hands with the bride and groom, as each person goes past the camera will focus on them and then back to the bride and groom.

In this instance i can switch the camera to the manual focus setting and focus on the bride and groom and leave the camera until it is finished but this is not possible for most other scenarios.

i realise that i am new to all this and am also new to the operation of the camera but even my JVC camcorder dosen't behave as eratic as this.

this is proving a serious problem and i need to sort itout or my business is going to go down the pan.

Does anybody have any idea if i am doing something wrong ( i suspect I probably am) or if there could be problem with the lens?

The problem is not really you. The xl1 is one of the worst camera I have seen to autofocus. 95% of the ppl here will tell you to star on manula focus.

I'm sorry to tell you that, but if you were looking for an auto focus camera, I've choosen one of the worst. The best work around is to stay in manual mode as long as you can. Then, when things are moving and need to re focus, use the Auto focus button on the lense and release it when things are not moving.

Manual Focus is the best way to go, just make sure you set a critical focus by focusing on the object furhest away from you -or- at least focusing on your subject if you plan on zooming in close on your subject.

Don't forget that as you set your critical focus in Manual Focus Mode and then hit the Momentary Auto Focus button on the lens, you will completely lose your critical focus. If you do use the Momentary Auto Focus button, make sure that you take the time to reset your critical focus between shots. Critical focus should be checked and set for each new shot.

- don

Hi,
Okay this doesn't sound like a back-focus issue that I've seen discussed here before (zoom in, focus, pull out, zoom back in and it's out of focus). I'm getting this: zoom in, focus, zoom out and it's out of focus but zoom back in and it's fine. Does this sound like it needs to go to the shop?
Thanks,
Randy

At first blush, sounds like back focus to me.

I was afraid of that...FWIW, it's not as noticeable without the 1.6 extender. Another thing worth mentioning: I was amazed how much dirt came off of the contact ends of the lenses using a pencil eraser as I learned here...it didn't help but definitely needed cleaning.
Randy

Randy,
You did not note which lens you're using, so I assume it is the standard 16x Auto lens. What you describe is a classic back-focus calibration matter. It's not a big issue and Canon can fix it.

Yes sir, the standard 16 X auto lens. Anyone know what Canon charges to calibrate it?
TIA,
Randy

XL1 owners club member? About due for an annual cleaning and tune-up? If so, the cost for that is moderate (on the order of $100 plus shipping if no significant repairs are required), and typically takes a few days plus shipping time.

Hi everyone. This is my first post and your advise would be appreciated.

I have owned a canon xl1s for over 6 months. From the first day I found that where there was motion it appeared to have trouble maintaining focus. Recently I filmed a wedding where everyone was on the dance floor. My colleague used a sony pd150. When I compared both footage I realised that sony always had a sharp picture whilst the canon footage showed continous problem with holding focus on the people. Similar to cameras from 20 years ago.

Is this normal for a canon xl1s or have I got a faulty model?

If this is a fault I am assuming i can get it repaired under warranty.

Thanks
Trev

hello trevor fox,

wow, i had the same problem. got my new xl1s about 3 weeks ago, and my first theater dance show last saturday.

several people at the time dancing at the stage, and my auto focus would go nuts. i did took it out of the auto focus mode, but the mf was a pain in the neck and the tape is terrible, in either mode.

used in the past a sony ...730, this was never a problem. i hope there is somebody out there with an answer.

help

greetings

karl

Hi Guys,

If you'll do a few searches on this forum, you'll find a lot of good information about the XL1s and focus--from people who explain things better than I do. But here's something to get you started:

First off, autofocus hunts continuously. Don't use it unless you have no other choice.

In manual focus, if you're going to have the camera in one position for a while, zoom in to the tightest point, focus, then zoom back out to where you want the shot. It should hold, but you still need to check it.

However, people have complained about the focus drifting over time, so in that case, you need to keep an eye on it and use the "push AF" button a lot. Be aware that this will undo any zoom focusing you did (as described earlier).

If none of that helps, you may actually have a problem with the camera and need to send it to Canon Service. If so, call Canon and they'll tell you about the warranty.

Karl, did you run into trouble because of other settings in manual mode, or just the focus?

I think this focus problem is ridiculous. You can't manually focus if the camera's on a steadycam or crane. This camera defocuses just sitting there in autofocus mode. Pan or zoom it goes out of focus. Canon needs to fix this. XL2 probably does the same thing. Audio drift is another pain in the ass. I love the quality of the video, but it isn't worth a shit if the shot's out of focus. I have a cheap old Sony consumer cam. Nuts on with focus unless you're shooting through a screen or something. This is probably the MOST annoying thing with the Canon XL series. I don't care if you're a "pro" camera user and you "need to get used to it". I watched a Madonna concert and the guy had a Sony on a crane. I really don't think he had to concern himself with focus as he was moving the camera all over the place.

Also, keep in mind that with the XL1 and perhaps the XL1s the auto focus needs about 50 lux to work reasonably well. It is the nature of the beast.

Thanks for ur replies guys. Filming wedding dances is quite common for me and this focus problem is putting me off the camera. I've decided to sell & move to a sony as I am not confident that the new xl2 will also suffer from this.

I am quite dissappoiinted after years of being in the business i have used panasonic cameras before moving to xl1s this year. None of my previous cameras had problems with focus.

Its a shame that such a great camera is let down by something so fundamental.

50 lux? How about a bright sunny day? Took some footage of a soccer game with the xl1 on a crane. Zooms in or out, a quick pan, or sitting there the lens goes out of focus or hunts.

<<<-- Originally posted by Lorinda Norton : Hi Guys,

If you'll do a few searches on this forum, you'll find a lot of good information about the XL1s and focus--from people who explain things better than I do. But here's something to get you started:

First off, autofocus hunts continuously. Don't use it unless you have no other choice.

In manual focus, if you're going to have the camera in one position for a while, zoom in to the tightest point, focus, then zoom back out to where you want the shot. It should hold, but you still need to check it.

However, people have complained about the focus drifting over time, so in that case, you need to keep an eye on it and use the "push AF" button a lot. Be aware that this will undo any zoom focusing you did (as described earlier).

If none of that helps, you may actually have a problem with the camera and need to send it to Canon Service. If so, call Canon and they'll tell you about the warranty.

Karl, did you run into trouble because of other settings in manual mode, or just the focus? -->>>

hello lorinda,

well, off course this was the first time i used the camcorder, so i have to learn a lot about the xl1s.
the show was 2 1/2 hours, constand light changes, way to much red...gh...from one to 15 people on stage. my set up is off course a tri-pot, sitting on a chair, lcd monitor, and no way to adjust or press any buttons in front of the camcorder while shooting, since i am controlling the camcorder by remote control, watch a field monitor/ recording set up, and i am way behind the camcorder. i was stressed out, more then the dancer since i saw the final product only the day after within a group of about 50 people!!!

here are the settings i used:
a auto mode
nd filter off
stabilizer on
m focus (after the auto focus went nuts)
gain +18db
white balance indoor light

after reading the instruction and the canon web site, i could not find out where the point is within the field of view of the lence, where the camera starts to focus. did i say that right?

overall the video turned out ok, we still can burn dvd's, much better then past tapes with my sony. even i don't understand everything 100% yet, i liked that i was able to adjust color/ gain, and audio, oh, i was shooting in a mode and indoor light position, since you can't adjust anything in the automatic position.

have an other indoor show nov. 17 with the same group, but different light condition, no colors, no theater set up, just neon light, so lets see how that will turn out.

thanks for your input and advice and i wonder if other xl1s owner could comment.

greetings

Hey Karl. You said the cam was on a tripod? If I'm not mistaken people always say to turn the stabiliser off if you have your camera on a tripod.
I could be wrong, though.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mathieu Ghekiere : Hey Karl. You said the cam was on a tripod? If I'm not mistaken people always say to turn the stabiliser off if you have your camera on a tripod.
I could be wrong, though. -->>>

hello mathieu,

thanks for your post. yes i did read that and did put it in mf at the second show, but the af still was on the run. after reading/ searching here i found a lot of postings in regards to that problem. it seems to me that the professionals here just shoot in mf because of that problem, or because they are professionals?.

i did find one post which recommends to clean the contacts from the lense and the camera body, which i did. the next show i have is on nov 17, so lets see.

greetings