The 16x (white lens) that most people get as part of the kit does not have a user adjustable back focus, nor does the 3x wide angle. The Canon manual focus lenses (old 14x and new 16x) do have user adjustable back focus. If you do have a manual focus lens with your XL, adjusting the back focus is fairly easy. do a search on key words back focus and you see several threads on how to adjust it.

Jeff

I have encountered the same problem with the 16x IS II lens: When zooming out, the picture goes out of focus!

There was another problem that taught me a valuable lesson. NEVER use the auto focus on the 16x IS II lens!! Also don't let your sublects stand too close to walls...

I had a close-up head shot in which I used auto-focus. Now I've done this with cheaper DV cameras like the Sony PD100 and everything was fine. But with the IS II, the lens kept on focusing on the wall in the backgroud (which was a feet away from my subject) whenever my subject moved her head.

Is there something wrong with my lens (like Jeff suggested)??
Has anyone encountered any similar problems??

thanks
JOe

Hi Joe,

It sounds like you have several problems or areas of confusion, but I think your situation is different from Dave's. The loss of AF with a subject so close to another subject is very common. Your subject turned her head and the AF sensor saw either more of a pattern in the wall or the subject's head became smaller (sideways) and the sensor saw the large wall as the subject. An easy fix is to switch to MF in those situations.

There can be several causes for the lens going out of focus as you zoom from tele to wide. This is discused in the articles here on the XL1 Watchdog. The following articles will address your concerns

Backfocus Issue, Yes or No?
Soft Focus Problem and Workaround

Canon also suggests that a slower zoom speed may be necessary for the AF to maintain focus while you zoom.

Jeff

.
Dave,

I had the same problem with the stock lens, to the point where I thought the XL1 wasn't really a viable camera for everyday use.

Then I bought the 16x manual lens. It performs much more like the "pro" lenses you're used to.

I use the XL1 almost exclusively now.

Mike Avery

The Canon auto lenses for the XLs lack back focus. Yes this has been a long discussed issue with the XL-1/1S. Early editions of the XL-1 may have had a problem with soft focus and there was lots of fussing about this. The short story was that it was finally resolved.

I recommend reading the lens articles on the dvinfo.net site, especially the ones that Jeff Donald mentions. If nothing else they really do explain how the auto lens system works.

After that if you are still having problems, a visit to Canon about the soft focus would be in order.

Finally, if you really like the Canon but hate the lens, you might want to try some of the manual lens options: they are really good.

Dave,
Howdy. No, you're not alone. I use four XL-1's all bought at the same time and, you guessed it, every damn one of them will not hold a focus from a tight to a wide after a tight manual focus. Occasionally with AF you can get an uninterrupted focus with a slow zoom in or out. From what I have read and heard from other users, it's caused by these servo lenses and really the only way to go for reliable critical focus is the manual lenses. The only very simple work around that I have found that works is to either push to focus and release or use AF until you have settled and then lock it by switching to manual. As far as focus drifting described by another poster, it happened to me a while back once in an interview situation.......once! I was using AF and not paying attention and the subject was soft enough to notice the whole time and the background and its activity was just so nice and clear, you can just imagine the feeling when reviewing the footage. Luckily, documentary shooting has some tolerances. This was an interview with the subject screen left or right. Apparently, the lens focuses on the center of the screen at all times. So the beam shoots right past the subject if framing is set left or right of center. A recommended fix is to set your framing with the subject CENTERED, manually or AF until you know that it's sharp, leave it on manual and then pan left or right to compose the offset interview. If you don't leave it on manual, then any activity or static, dominant source in the background will cause the focus to search and give the camera away, at least the fact that you're using one with AF, not a good feeling, especially when you're telling the producers that you were using Betacam. Ha! From what I've read, heard and occasionally experienced about AF is that it searches for dominant fields to adjust to and goes into overdrive with a solid, neutral background. Just wait and see how fun it is to shoot through thick limbs and leaves with that good ole AF. Hope this helps.

Can someone tell me if this is a common flaw of the cameras? Have they been fixed in the newer models?

Im very close to getting one, but the biggest complaint I have heard have been focusing problems.

See http://www.dvinfo.net/xl1faq.htm

Don't think I've used AF for much of anything. I'm a fan of the "push AF" button. Since I still use manual focus 35mm cameras, I found it helpful. I suppose if I were used to auto everything, I wouldn't have bought the xl1S.

Read the link Chris has provided. This has been over the years an item of considerable debate. I have never had the problem with my XL-1.

The biggest complaints are regarding auto focus.

I keep mine turned off and that avoids the problem entirely.

Exactamundo, Sensui, leave the AF off and it won't hunt around, which is the biggest source of complaints about focus--it's all about the lens not being able to decide which point to focus on when objects are at different distances. Like 1 Jophoto, I like the "push AF" button.

I use the push AF quite a bit - probably too much. I would prefer to manually focus more, but due to the shortcomings of the stock EVF (poor resolution), I find I'm not always confident that the focus is right on. I am getting more used to the EVF, but I would like to try the optional B&W one or an external LCD like the one described in Chris' article on the five best accessories. Beautiful "in focus" shots are the norm for the XL1s, but being confident that my shots are OK is not. I usually am a bit anxious until I get home and view my days work on a monitor. I also recommend experimenting with the camera hooked up to a monitor once in a while. I should mention that almost all of my work is outdoors-run and gun stuff.

I don't know if this is a back focus problem like I see others getting succesfully fixed by Canon or not. My lens problem is when the lens is at the widest setting the focus seems to just drift whenever it feels like it. I have to keep pushing the autofocus button every 5 seconds to get it back in focus. This all occurs when I'm in the "A" setting and the lens is set to manual focus. I've tried zooming in on a distant object focusing sharp then backing up and zooming in again the object is still in focus. It just seems like the autofocus is never turned off even though I'm 100% sure that it is. Is this a Canon fix or do I have to keep spending money for Canon's add ons ie 16x manual lens to fix problems they engineered into their products?

Your desciption does not sound like a back-focus problem. (That's where the lens does not hold focus on an object as you zoom in and out.) Rather, it sounds like your autofocus is a bit flakey and, as you speculate, may not be disengaging when you switch to Manual Focus.

No big ideas here, just a wild shot. If you've not already tried this, you might try removeing the lens and re-mounting it. The lens and body communicate through a series of contacts that are seated when the lens is squarely mounted. Maybe something's flakey there.

Otherwise that will definitely be a Canon repair.

I've noticed a similair to the effect you are experiencing when my XL1s is in the (M)anual mode. Although I don't get the wide angle drift the XL1s seemed incapable of holding focus when zooming in and out. At first I though that I had a back focus problem.

Strangely, setting the gain control to +0dB (or whatever) rather than (A)uto completely eliminates this problem. I've tested this several times. The last time being 5 minutes before making this post.

I know that this isn't quite your problem but try it out - you never know.

Sorry if that was of no help at all!

James,
Thanks I'll give it a try. I've never tried this method.

Johnathan

Hmmmm. Zoming when in auto gain mode may canse hot spots to move through the metering zones and cause changes in expsoure. And similarly, an area that is poor for autofocus (no contrast) may move through the AF sensor sampling zone. Also, auto focus needs some light, about 50 lux, to work well.

What?

The point being that during zooming (or during action in the iscene) the image presented to the various automatic-mode sensors is changing, and these changes could induce unwanted changes in aperture, shutter speed, gain, and focus.

Also changing aperture may change apparent focus of items inthe scene as thedepth of field changes.

(Also, I cleaned up some typos in the earlier post)

Precisely.

In this case, this is not a fault but a simple fact of optics.

Further testing (playing) confirms Don's elucidation upon my observations.

James,

I'm having a similar problem with my 16x lens...except mine occurs at about 80% of full zoom. Adrian tells me that sending it in for service will do the trick.

John,

What I'm getting at is the fact that what some people are calling 'XL1 focus problems' are in fact caused by some of the automatic features of the camera creating optical changes which will affect your focus.

I've noticed quite a bit of focus paranioa on these boards and it easy to create the impression that everything comes down to the fact that there is a fatal flaw with the XL1 stock lens.

I think that there are myriad of problems being dumped into the same pot. Some genuine back focus problems, some lens defects, some motor defects and others which are simply not actual problems at all. I have been able to replicate some of these problems when using the XL1s in full automatic and semi-auto modes.

When I have the camera mode set to (M), focus set to manual, the white balance set to one of the presets (ie. not Auto) and gain controls set manually I have found that the XL1 performs exactly as expected.

I suspect that the real culprit is Canon's automatic system(s) on the XL1s which are relatively poor compared to Sony offerings or even that of it's little brother the XM2 (GL2). The bottom line is that the XL1s needs to be controlled completely manually in order to produce it's best images. I am comfortable with this although I can understand there are many situations where this can be a real pain the proverbial.

In your case, you are obviously experienced and I trust your judgement if you believe that this is a genuine defect with the lens. If so, I would follow your original course of action and send it to Canon.

Jim.

By the way, nice website John!

Maybe take a look at my "Replace the CCD" thread.... before you decide to take it in to Canon.

The mentioned thread can be found here (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6763)

Thanks for visiting my site, James.

It would depend on when you bought your lens (or actually when it was produced). Apparently, on older XL1/16x lens combos like mine...that has never been sent in for a checkup...there are certain back focus issues, firmware updates, and lens modifications needed.

I've been needing to send my camera into Canon for a long time for servicing but haven't had a chance. And to be honest, I've been able to work around the focus problem. Mine goes soft at one brief spot while zooming at about 80% of full zoom. Also, like you, it does tend to drift out of focus when the camera is in auto mode (green box) and the lens is in manual. So, I've just worked around that...I stay away from auto as much as possible and just adjust my zooming range. But it's about time to get these things taken care of.

One of the other wranglers, Adrian, said he sent his camera in for servicing and had those problems cleared up. So, I imagine that'll be the case with me, too.

I'd wait for a consensus here, though, and see what some of the others think. If you haven't had it serviced yet or in a long time, though...couldn't hurt.

By the way...your site is looking good, too. I'll check back later to see it when it's complete.

I am sure that there has already been an answer to my questions but I will ask them anyway.

Setting the lens to AF, I have noticed that when I zoom in, the object goes out of focus for a second or two. If I refocus at full zoom, then zoom back out and then zoom in once more, the same thing happens before the subject automatically sharpens once again. Is this normal and is it just a case of zooming too fast onto a subject?

I have also noticed that if I pan using the AF lens mode, depending upon the speed of pan, the subject and backgroung goes out of focus very easily. I have found that if I pan using MF mode, the situation does improve but on occation the background is still liable to loose focus or blur.

I am interested in capturing wildlife in flight, and I am finding that if I set the lens to AF it is almost impossible to keep my subject, usually small, in focus. The lens appears to hunt far too easily loosing sight of the subject all to often. I am therefore forced in most cased to use the lens in MF. But then the subject is very quickly out of focus anyway.

Any advice would be most welcome
Terry

Auto focus works based on contrast in the focus zone (center) of the image, and vertical edges make for the best contrast, auto focus wise. Moderatly rapid zooming and/or panning can result in significant changes to the contrast profile of an image, and can cause the autofocus to hunt for better focus. Using manual focus setting will help.

Birds in flight can be a very difficult if not almost impossible auto focus target.

Panning will cause blur in an image, especially if zoomed in, due to motion, just like camera shake with a still camera.

Yep, that's about it.

The best thing for you to do is to practice your manual focus skills. You will be able to outfocus the AF in no time!
Then of course you will start lusting after one of the true manual focus lenses. :)

I do a lot of flight shots and AF is just not possible for any type of close work. I use Canon EOS EF lenses and manual focus to obtain good, sharp, footage. AF just isn't fast enough and the birds get lost in the sky and as Don points out, lacks sufficent contrast for the AF to work.

A good way to build up your manual focus skills is to zoom in all the way on a car in moving traffic and maintain the focus on the moving vehicle as it drives by. If you want a real test of your focusing skills, do this at night!

- don

my xl1s focus is set on auto. whenever i am in close range to someone (approx. 4 or 5 feet away) and the lighting is low (i guess you can compare the lighting to the lighting in most restaurants) my xl1s just can't seem to focus properly. what happens is the xl1s will seem to catch the correct focus, then fail, then catch the correct focus again and so on. this goes on for the length of the shot. what am i doing wrong?

Edwin,
The XL1s' difficulties with auto-focus are pretty well known. It's by no means alone. Most cameras in this class seem to have difficulty auto-focusing on scenes with dim light and low contrast.

It would be a good practice to begin learning to manage your focus manually, as most pro's and serious hobbyists do. First set your len to manual focus. Now target your primary subject, zoom-in close to set your focus (with the lens' focus ring or by pressing and holding the auto-focus button on the lens). Now pull the zoom back to frame the scene and shoot.

One additional comment on your post. Note that the minimum fucusing distance for the XL1s' standard lens is about 1 meter at full-telephoto and 20 cm at full-wide.

The auto focus needs some light and contrast in the subject to work. In the case of the XL1 specs it needed 50 lux for reliable operation - not sure what the figure is for the XL1s.

What are the official specs concerning focus for the 16x manual? What's the closest you can get fully zoomed in and still focus? Full Wide?

See the table at the bottom of my 16x Manual Servo review (http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article82.php).

I'm sorry Ken, I don't understand, does it mean at both wide and macro it focus to 5cm, or only with the macro function on? I'd still like to know the minimum focus distance for the wide setting without macro activated.

Without macro function it focus' to 1m. In macro and lens zoomed to widest angle it will focus to 50mm, about 2 inches.

Alright, thanks. Sometimes on wide, I get close to my subject, but I can't see it any blurriness. Then, when editing, it looks a little soft. Now I know why.

For low cost closeup work, consider using a "closeup lens set" (really an adapter). A +1 or +2 adapter will work reasonably well with full zoom through and allow stand-off distance for lighting, etc. You can shoot from 18 inches and have a dime fill the frame. Note that depth of field will be rather small. The adapters can be rather low cost if you get a Hoya or Tiffen set, on a par with filter prices.

For a good bit more money you can buy a quality achromatic diopter adapter from source such as Century.

I also have a B+W close up set, an NL1 and NL2, combined together gives you an NL3 equivelant. Works very well, tho not entirely zoom-through. If you were going tight, you'd use an extender instead anyways, but wide allows for very close shooting.

If I zoom in on a subject, focus and slowly zoom out, my XL1 loses focus. I was told that the early XL1 cameras have a focus problem. Is this true?

Some units shipped with poorly adjusted back focus, more common with early production.

There was a firmware issue in that if you set manual focus at anything less than full zoom, it would not track as you change zoom. This was corrected a few several years ago by a firmware patch.

The other issue is that auto focus mode in general is a bit fussy about what is in the focus zone of the scene. If image content is not suitable for auto focus sensing the lens will start to hunt.

Another issue is with supplementary lenses on the XL1.

I almost always have a Century 0.7 WA adapter mounted on my lens and it seems to cause a problem with back focus. The image just doesn't stay sharp throughout the zoom range.

If I take the WA adapter off, the lens works as advertised. I have two lenses, one from my original XL1 and one from the newer XL1s. The newer lens seems much more prone to this problem than the older lens. So at this point I'm relying on the older lens and have the newer lens set aside.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

Hi,

I'm having problems keeping focus when I zoom out. I have my XL1s set on manual exposure and focus (gain might be auto). I'm using the stock 16x lens.

I zoom in and use the auto focus buttom to focus, but when I zoom out the picture is out of focus. I think things seem better if I focus a few feet in front of my subject, but I don't always have something to focus on if I do this.

I'm thinking of buy the 16x manual servo lens to fix this problem. Will this help?

Thanks,

Leland

Sounds like it may be the back focus is off. See:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6021
for additional discussion that might partlyaddress your question.

James suggestion has totally eliminated any problems (I thought I had) with my XL1S...looks like the auto settings of the Canon are a bit sad/weak...but setting using (M) focuing, setting gain to 0 and preset your WB...the camera behaves as good/better than anything I've used (love the trademark softness of the Canon glass). In the big picture of things, we/I should be avoiding the auto settings anyway....
Mark

On the camera lens there is a switch AF and M. you have to set this to M. even when you have the camera in
Manual it still will try to auto focus if this switch is set to AF. i hope this helps.

The camera also has to be out of "green box" mode too.