Can anyone tell me why I can't focus an obect that is 4 inches from the camera lens at full zoom? I switch it to the green box and it focuses easily when its switch to manual and I turn the lens, its all a blur? I can turn endlessly and nothing. When I used the AF button, it just jumps back and forth and never focuses.

4 inches is too close for the lens to focus. I think the min focus distance is about 30cm(12")

Also manual focus is not available in Green Box Mode

I know that in green box you cant manual focus. But If I switch it to green box it will focus. And according to the manual on page 120, the min focus distance is 13/16 inch or 2cm. Besides even if I'm 3 feet away and try to focus in on some text like the word Sony on the television I can't seem to turn the ring enough to get it to focus. Is this problem resolved with the manual focus lense?

I just did a quick test with mine and am able to manually focus on small objects that are touching the edge of the lens hood without any problem.

Ed which camera and lens do you have?

I have to get a wide angle lens. If the camera is zoomed out fully, or in telephoto it will not focus on an object even 2 feet away. Physics.

I recall on my sony that macro required a wider focal length. I'm pretty sure that 's the same with the canon. So I think it's inherent in many lenses. Back off the zoom a little and see if you can get by. You should be able to get very close using a wider setting.

My lens is the standard 16X that came with the XL1S. In my test, I was at a wide setting.

Minimum focus distance with the standard 16x servo zoom lens will depend on the zoomsetting.

From the Canon XL lens specification: At full zoom the minimum subject distance is 1 meter, at full wide angle setting it is 20 mm. Smalller apertures will give more depth of field which may translate to usable focus even closer.

If you need to get to use full zoom for a macro-like shot at some distance, (e.g., for stand off distance) get a close-up adapter set, about $75 in the required 72mm size by Hoya or Tiffen. If you need higher quality, consider the achromatic diopters from Century. With the +2 you can zoom to fill the frame with a postage stamp at about 18 inches distance.

If memory serves me, I seem to remember the AF trying to focus on the dust on the lens itself. If so, maybe there is some truth to green mode allowing a different focus system for some reason. Dust on the lens is closer than 20 mm. But I would think that less than an inch should provide adequate macro shooting, hey?

Actually the front glass of the XL1's 16x lens is not a focusing element, it is a piece of flat optical glass that protects the Variable Angle Prism (VAP). The first piece of lens (in the traditional sense) is on the other side of the VAP. So dust on the front glass is actualy some distance from the first element of the lens, and at a small f-stop is nearly within the depth of field range.

A problem with 'less than an inch' shooting in macro range is lighting the subject. THe lens casts a big shadow.

I just received my 3x wide angle lens today and I look at the glass that connected to the camera and there is a DUST particle on it. I try to clean it and realize its on the inside of the lens. What are those Canon QA or QC guys doing?!?! I say oh well its just a spec. So I put it on the camera to check it out. There is a blur on the image. I check the paper that the lens comes with. It says the depth of field is greater than that of previous video lenses and any dirt or dust on the surface of the lens will be projected. I wish for once something would go right.

Anyway if anyone is planning to buy the VL-10li (Canon Camera Light), dont bother its a waste of money. You could mount a maglite on the camera that would do a better job that this light. Its like hunting for deer at night with a big spot light. If anyone wants to buy it, I'm selling it for 70 bucks. Never been used cept once for about 30 seconds.

Send your 3x back to whoever you bought it from and get that situation resolved. Post your VL10i for sale in the classified section -- sorry you bought that thing; if you had asked me first, I would've talked you out of it! ;-)

It's not uncommon for specs of dust to be inside of a lens. They are not sealed totally against dust and moisture. The lens gets (or the box it's in) dropped a few times and some dust gets dislodged. If the spec is showing up in your picture send it back like Chris says.

Jeff Donald

Got a chance to shoot for a network morning show, I was asked to shoot some footage of a re-election speech. It was hot!!! humidity was probably bad, but no indication of a moisture problem. XL1S 16x II lens, nd filter on and polarizing filter, shooting in manual / AF manual. 1/90th sec. F3.7 I should have positioned myself with a larger F-stop. This was not a learning situation. The main guest arrived on a bus and walked 200 yds down the middle of the street in a 10 ft wide path made of plastic chain, people on both sides shaking his hand, I have always been able to zoom in on people and use the push to focus button, but not today, even manually focusing, the subject just looked slightly blurry unless he filled the EVF, dark shirt, no vertical lines, usually salt and pepper hair zoomed in close does the trick, problem was this man was constantly moving, back focusing did not seem appropriate, nothing was close behind him, I was actually having to battle (inside this 10 ft swath) with 2 other camera men one with a reporter, 3 still photogs, and for some reason 2 men with pad and paper, plus security, aids and so on. Everyone with cameras was stepping in front of me as I shot. Security said to stay 20 feet away, I did, others didn't. When I had an open shot on the subject I had to be fast, I did a fair job on the shoot but missed a lot of opportunities. Why would one subject look slightly out of focus so often, Also, previous to my battle I was shooting crowd shots and noticed that when I was focused on something in the shade and panned out of it into the sunlight, the shot would be overexposed just for a split second until it appeared something automatic kicked in and changed the exposure value. I was in manual? Questions - depth of field, always talked about in photography, using aperture on the xl1s, does it effect depth of field? Why can't I create a large focused area using larger # F-stops? Focusing once and trying to stay the same distance away did not help, depth of field most have been six inches. How much of the viewing area is used to push-focus and is it in the middle. How would you approach this shoot. No area or platform assigned to media. ( assignment editor wanted street level shots). walking backwards and continuously filming did not look even remotely pro so I abandoned it early.
Thanks
Donny

Maybe put the lens over your shoulder, flip the viewfinder over, and walk foward while taping behind you? Just a thought...
Keith

DOF is, most certainly, available from any lens with an adjustable aperture, including your eye(a well known technique to improve your performance on an eye chart). Unfortunately, DOF effects are diminished for smaller diameter optics, such as the Canon lenses designed for a 1/3 inch focal plane....ie they're not nearly as noticeable as for a 35mm focal plane lens.

IOW, depth of field increases with increasing numerical aperture until you reach the diffraction limit, which is around f/32 on the Canon 16x zoom lens.This shoot sounds like an opportunity for a monopod and guerilla tactics.

just a few thoughts, the advanceperson/press aide is your friend youre the one shooting for a network their candidate wants to be featured on have them lay everything out get as much info as possible and be prepared for it all to change. When the others ignored security you go with them......(as long as its not secret service) did you have a press badge?

as for going backwords unfortunately its the reality of that type of speech the other is walking alongside but in 10 feet of space wont happen, and walking backwords without a guide (producer/tech) watching out for you isnt easy, theres been many camera guys taking hard falls even the ones who do it every day.

If they didnt have a spot for the press pick the best you can..... setting up next to the others dosent really work, neither does a press area/podium always become the best spot. The problem is they generally are shooting large cams with doublers and other nice toys...they can get shots youre never going to get.

Another idea rent a small cam a pd100-150 with a w/a, good shotgun and use that for run and gun, they can be very forgiving the lcd is what youre looking at lots of flexibility and if its outside daylight your good just leave it in auto.......

and lastly if you get at least a few minutes of good video, feed that first so they see it right away, they will be happy therye only using 40 second of it tops

Thanks, yes I had a press badge, I tried to get in touch with his staff but the assignment editor called me 18 hours before the shoot. The other problem was that this occurred in The Villages Florida which has their own TV and Newspaper and they were kind of given free run. At one point the villages event coordinator told 3 of us to stay back while the Villages media was allowed to swarm the guy. Not fair but one of those get over it things, They own their own community for 30 square miles or so. In thinking about it the last few days (hindsight is good stuff huh?) a second camera may have been the solution, also, subconsciously, I may have thrown 2 elbows into ribs and stepped on one ankle. If I did do that, It would have been unprofessional, I think? I also would have thought any media would have been briefed and press badges checked? I actually tried to find a press area but was unable to locate it after asking event people and law enforcement.

Either I am crazy or my XL1S is changing focus occaisionally when I am in manual. I always use my camera in manual focus and use the push to focus or the focus ring. Is anyone else out there seeing this or am I loosing it. It is a very short burst of movement but substantial enough to see. Focus does not change during a shoot it usually happens within a second after I have "push to focus" or else it is happening when I use the focus ring, I am not sure which.
Thanks

With the standard lens (16X) that comes with the camera, it's not a real manual lens in manual mode, it still uses its servo motors to focus the lens even though you turn the focus ring manually.

I hate it when I zoom in on something and focus and then want to zoom out, sometimes the focus will shift drastically out of focus and I have to shoot it again, and that's with me not touching the focus ring, I'm just turning the zoom ring. I can usually get it in 3 takes.

The only way to get total focus control is to get the manual lens, then you can focus in and it will hold the focus.

I should have been able to figure that out but apparently I didn't, thanks. That also explains why people talk so much about the manual lens and also the reason why there are no stops on the focus. I think I want to add a manual lens to my gear. But do you have an occaisional inadvertent movement from the servo from the 16X lens or is it not maintaining focus throughout the zoom??

One day I'll get a manual lens, I also hate the noise the servos make when I zoom, I can hear it sometimes. But it only goes out of focus sometimes, it seems to sense I'm doing a critical focus shot and it will act up, but for the most part, it behaves itself. It's only lost the focus on a zoom a couple of times.

I've also been able to get some nice foreground in focus/background out of focus shots with that lens, I'm sure I will have more control with a true manual lens.

I guess I am either lucky or deaf. I have never heard servo noise in either live or recorded situations. I also don't tighten the screw down on the boom mic very hard, just enough to hold it in place. If I ever get the manual lens I would have to spring for a better EVF or LCD. I would love to be able to see sharp focus on my XL1S.

I just posted something about the viewfinder in another post, but I have the older XL-1 and I borrowed a friend's XL-1s while mine was in the shop. The first thing I noticed is I had a harder time focusing with his camera, with mine I can get the focus very easily, it took more effort with his XL-1s, I wonder if the viewfinders are a little different. Another thing is my focus ring is turns alot easier than his. Do the new lens have a slightly different feel than the old lens or is it just me?

Would hooking up a small monitor and turning down the color to make it B/W help with the focusing?

I remember with my very, very old Sony VX-1, it had a B/W viewfinder and focusing was great with it.

The standard 16x lens is indeed changed on the XL1s... There is
a little II (2) besides it now. Most people that have compared
both think the new one is much better. Your the first I have heard
the other way around. I myself never had a plain XL1 so I cannot
compare. I must say that I have little trouble with my XL1s for
this moment though.

I believe the viewfinder doesn't have enough resolution, for some reason, occaisionally it just looks pixelated. In focusing you just try to get the pixels to look there finest.

I met up with my friend tonight and he tried out my camera, one thing we both noticed is the focus ring on my old XL-1 is a lot easier to turn than his new XL-1s focus ring. Maybe that's why I can focus so much easier, I have to turn the focus ring on his more to focus, he also wondered why it was a little hard to turn the focus ring on his camera.

Is each lens adjusted differently? do some lenses have focus rings that are easier to turn than others? Is it just his lens or do all the new lenses have a tighter focusing ring?

The focus ring on mine is featherlight. In fact, I actually like the feel of actually moving elements. The ring feels to light for me.

It must be my friend's lens only, his focus ring is about 4 times heavier than mine. Since I only used my XL-1 for these past two years, once I tried his I noticed it right away. Mine is featherlight also but now I'm used to it.

Do you know if they could readjust the lens the next time he takes it in for service? actually, he just bought it about 3 weeks ago, so the first time he takes it in for servicing, could they "loosen" the focus ring to let it turn more easily. He thought it was normal and was wondering why other people like the manual focus, with the tight focus ring, the manual focus seemed overhyped. I'll send him an email and have him give his 2 yen's worth on the focus ring. He was one of the unlucky 40 who got their account wiped out in the Great Crash of '02 (as Chris put it).

Canon would be a good source of info for the focus ring. Chris would be also.

I have an older XL1 (1998) and the focus on it is great. I can zoom in and focus and then go wide and it's perfect. I find it hard to use this lens in manual so I usually leave it on auto as it performs better than I do! I'm sure the manual lens would make it more easier while using manual though. I love my 3x wide lens. 2 perfect combos would the 3x wide and the manual lens.

Rik -- ask that person to re-register please. I'll send out an apology to all the folks we lost, when I get home from MacWorld. Luckily I have a record of these folks with their contact info. I'll try to show this thread to the Canon tech reps here at the show tomorrow and get an answer about the tactile friction in the focus ring.

Chris,
I had lunch with him today and told him to re-register and to check out this thread and for him to post a response, my friend's name is Rob Moreno.

Let us know what the Canon people say. When you show them the thread, tell them everyone in Japan says for Canon to give Chris an XL-1s or we'll sic some sumo wrestlers on them:-)

Hi all, I also had the same problem with the manual focus a few times, i.e. though the camera was in the manual mode, the automatic focus tried its best to overcome my commands.

From time to time I press the AF button even when in the manual mode. That feature sometimes helps to find the focus faster if you are in a hurry. However, of course, very often the focus "breathes", i.e. goes in and out and sometimes hits, and sometimes it does not.

I accepted the fact that I cannot count on the automatic focus. It has betrayed me several times and even when I was filming a very important show (outdoors) from some odd 30-yard distance. It was one of my first attempts to use the camera and as a newbie I tried the auto mode. Horror! Too many faces were off the focus for a moment and then fine again and of course I could not have seen it on my CVF.

I read here that many people have sent their cameras to Canon to fix this problem with the automatic focus. My questions to all of you are:

1. Can the automatic focusing problem be really fixed or do we have to live with it?

2. Is the fix considered by Canon an adjustment or a repair and how much do we have to pay for the service? (N.B. I got my camera 4 months ago.)

Thanks in advance for your answers,

Another thing you need to watch out for are changes in you DOF (depth of field). If the aperture changes, DOF changes too. If you are at that edge when the aperture moves, focus can change too.

Nathan Gifford

For the guy who wanted to not have servo noise during zooms -- I have the manual lens, and if the servo is selected (as oppose to manuall operating the zoom ring) then you will still hear the zoom noise -- at least I can.

Hi Nathan,

Thanks a lot for your advice. I thought that my focusing problem was related to the "soft focus problem", so I did several experiments in the auto mode following the recommendations from the Watchdog.

1. I turned on the ND filter, and the auto focus was still skipping;
+
2. I increased the shutter speed, even that did not help;
+
3. I also reduced the gain to -3 and added a circular polarizing filter, even that did not help.

The only way for me to avoid that fuzzy focus was to turn off the automatic focus. However, even with the auto focus off and while operating in the manual mode, in a few cases I lost the focus for a second or two though I was filming around the "sweet spot", i.e. f 5.2-5.6.

<<If you are at that edge when the aperture moves, focus can change too.>>

1. Can you or somebody else, please, clarify more your previous statement?

2. Can somebody recommend a concise and clear manual/book dealing with optics and DV/35mm/16mm cameras where I could find all of the terms (like DOF, white balance, etc.) briefly explained and with advices as to trouble shooting while shooting?

(I have, for instance, the “Filmmaker’s dictionary”, and it defines the terms, but does not work much on concepts and solutions to problems.)

Thanks a lot again,

Have an XL1s. Took it to an air show over the weekend and found out that the auto focus was about worthless. Couldn't seem to stay in focus. I did have a circular polarizer as well as a
uv filter on it. Could this have been the problem?

Looking Glass

What subjects and conditions were you shooting when you decided that the 16x lens' autofocus circuitry is "worthless"?

That lens can focus as close as 3/16th of an inch in front of the glass, so it's highly possible that a speck of dust or lint on your filter stack was causing the AF to hunt quite a bit. Just a theory.

I had some problems with the sky and autofocus. It just didn't
know to focus on the bird or on the clouds behind it.....

I do a fair amount of nature work, including hawks in flight. I almost always use manual focus. The AF usually doesn't have enough contrast to focus accuratly. Also, the constant movement of the wings and background (panning with subject) doesn't help the AF either, it's constantly hunting for something to lock onto.

Jeff

AF needs contrast; i.e., generally vertical edges to work best. It does not work well if edges are horizontal (e.g., venetian blinds) of if the subject is low contrast, like an open or overcast sky. Manual focus is the better way to go, especially since most air show action is likely to be at a good distance (near optical infinity).

Also, on a bright day the XL1 can try to focus on dirt/dust on a filter, especially if that is the highest contrast item in the image. Even in manual focus mode, when stoped down the depth of field is so great that any crud on the filter may become visible in the image.

I rarely use filters for this type of work, either. Maybe a polarizer, or ND but I never stack filters. It's like asking for problems with flare or ghost images.

Jeff

As everyone has said, for what you were doing, the auto focus should have been turned off. I very seldom use the auto focus feature. Recently, I had to shoot aircraft taking off and landing. In shooting a test prior, I saw that I could not use the auto focus. Shot everything manually. Turned out fine.

Jay

Okay, Thanks everyone. Appreciate your help. I was trying to
autofocus on fast aircraft, but stationary objects were hard to nail
also.

Looking Glass

Hello everyone!

My first post and let me begin with how cool I think this site is!

I host, write and produce a series on TNN, and for the last 5 years, have used Sony-DSR300 & Sony PD-150 cameras. I've done a couple of episodes with an XL1, as well.

I love the XL1 design, but I had continuing problems with the back focus not working. (What I mean is, if I push in tight on someone's face, get a crystal clear focus, the camera goes out of focus if I pull wider on the shot).

A few days ago I bought an XL1S and right out of the box, it will not hold a back focus either. Am I doing something wrong? Is there an adjustment? Or, have I just had a run of bad luck and 2 out of the 2 XL1 cameras I bought were lemons?

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks, & good shooting!

Dave Watson

I have both an XL1and XL1s and have the fortune of not having this problem. I would talk to the dealer first and see if an exchange is in order for the defective camera. If the dealer provides no assistence I would call Canon and make arrangements to send the camera in for service. I use 3 different lenses, in addition to the EOS EF adapter, with my XL's and I've yet to have this problem (knock on wood?). So, I don't think this is relaited to use. My best guess is that something occured in shipping.

Canon is a fairly responsive company. If your relate your expierences to them on the phone they may be willing to expedite your repair if it comes to that. Post back how things work out.

Jeff

What lens did you get with the XL1s? I haven't had a look on mine yet (haven't had a reason), but most cameras have a small screw on the lens where you can adjust the back focus - however it is very sensitive and you might be better off going back to the dealer who should be able to fix it for you.

If Canon haven't enabled people to adjust the back focus I'd be very surprised - but on the other hand, I do tend to be surprised a lot nowadays...;)

Good luck anyway!

Regards
Jon