GRRRRRRR

i been waiting 8 weeks for the bugger and its still not in.. now im told i have to wait till the 22nd of september.. mind u i have a shoot on the 12th which is where i wanted to use this.. :(

Im SOOOOOOOOOOOO not happy..

padre pulls out his steelcapped boots...

Time for an ol fashioned asskickin methinks!!!

Did you pre-pay for it?

no, but i know work for my video supplier so i get first dibs on everything :) get to play with the XL2 next week muhahhaha hmm....

no not prepaid. but i shoulda had it last week.. :(

I looked at one today and compared it with that new Sony 3-chip. One shop here has 4 GS400's in stock.

which new sony would that be frank??

I can't recall the model off hand, something like the HCV1000 maybe? It's on Vincent's site. It's about the same size as the GS400 but with a fat right size. The front lens element looks to be the same size as the GS400's. I didn't realize that the GS400 had 2 record/pause buttons: one on the back and one on the top right of the lens housing. It took me a dig in the manual to double check. The GS400 is also a lot lighter feeling, or puffy, than the Sony and the PV-DV953/MX5.

This is the first I've heard of a backordered DVC30. Most retailers have them in stock. <<<Nevermind>>> I see that you're in Australia. :)

Peter, what features (or performance) made you choose the DVC30 over the GS400? Don't you also have a DVX100?

teh fact that i have a DVX mainly.. colour mathcing will be a non issue, the lowl light performance and adjustable slow shutters also help..

then theres the whole scene file situation and film looks within the GS, and the customisable scenes whereby u can have any individual element selected and adjsuted (jsut like the dvx) without affecting anything else..


then theres the wide angles lense with a 16x zoom, the actual LOOK of the camera and finally (and most importantly to me) is teh fact that i can run my existing batteries off it.. (i have numerous blet clip and high cap DVX and MX500 batteries.. )

oh and the viewfinder, and top handle also help, as my wife will be working with this mainly..

good choice pete I am very satisfied with my dvc-30 I chose it over the 400 for the reasons you listed plus the optical range and night vsion rock on dude

Hiya all,

Im new to this forum , and generally speaking - new to video as well. And im poised to make a leap of faith - get a new cam. Have PV-DV953 now, nice peace of equipment but low lite on it is nonexistanat, which is a pity. My choice of new cams is either DVC30 or GS400, price isnt a factor - fear is :). Im a consumer and although it seems like DVC30 is sumwhat better cam im wondreing if it'll be too much of a cam for me - form factor/weight/features. Bascally i can easily see myself shooting with GS, similar to 953 plus a few new goodies - sweet, and besides theres much more info on GS, while info on DVC30 is scarse.

So i have a few questions for the proud owners of AG-DVC30's, especially for those who previously had or still have 953's:

1. Saturation - camcorderinfo revew indicates that colors on DVC arent as saturated compared to GS400. Can you achive GS satration level manually adjusting DVC?

2. Cinegamma - can you use MovieLike setting in 60i/4:3?
In your opinion which cam has better cinegamma - DVC or GS?

3. Frame mode - after reading all the posts here and everywere else im still confused - is it true 30fps on DVC, or double frames recorded in 60fs, just like on 953/GS400?
Which of the two cams has smoother frame mode?

4. Is it true that DVC 's lenses r wider and therefore it would have more horizonal coverage than GS (in the context of DVC30's wider lenses vs GS400's HQ WS)?

5. I read in the DVC30's PAL manual that it 's got 2 image stabilization modes - the 'reglar' mode and on top of that additional hand shake sabilization mode? Do NTSC models have the same '2 lines of defense' and how much does this 'duo IS' acually improve stabilization?

Thank you all very much

Welcome Mike. I'll let DVC30 owners chime in on your questions but I had one of my own. You mentioned that low light is unacceptable on your DV953. That tells me that the DVC30 would definitely be appreciated over the GS400? The only area that kills me on the idea of a DVC30 is the relatively low resolution 16:9 mode coupled with frame mode.

The thread below might be of some help and it also has a current DVC30 owner that also had a DV953.

Click here (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30499)

Tommy, thank you for your warm welcome.
I was wandering about the inet today, googling DVC30 and ran into this interesting japanese site that among other things compares PDX10 vs DVC30. From looking at the sample frames it 's easy to see that even in 16:9 aspect DVC30 covers more horizontal ground than the '16:9 king' PDX. On the other hand thou, the PDX's wide screen is noticebly sharper than 30's squeeze mode.

oopsa, sorry, forgot to give you the link to the site i was referring to.
Its in japanese but pretty much selfexplanatory

http://www.geocities.jp/sumi653/DVC30.6.vs.html

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Sakovski : Tommy, thank you for your warm welcome.
I was wandering about the inet today, googling DVC30 and ran into this interesting japanese site that among other things compares PDX10 vs DVC30. From looking at the sample frames it 's easy to see that even in 16:9 aspect DVC30 covers more horizontal ground than the '16:9 king' PDX. On the other hand thou, the PDX's wide screen is noticebly sharper than 30's squeeze mode. -->>>

Isn't that due to the zoom going wider on the DVC30? Looks like it.


Carlos

Isn't that due to the zoom going wider on the DVC30? Looks like it.

I'd have to say so.

huh?? this is all wierd..

re: DVC30 resolution quality is running the same algorythms as the GS400, with the inclsusion of a 12bit RGB Processor...
Sure the GS may have a higher pixel count, however those pixels need alot more light to penetrate due to the physical size of them being smal, the surface area is alot smaller.

as for configuability, the GS and DVC30 are incomparable, they are 2 very different cameras.

as for the PDX10, its still the only miniDV cam to run TRUE 16:9 with no deterioration in quality, the XL2 doesnt even work in this manner, as the XL2 downsamples the captured image to a resolution pixel count even lower than the DVX100

As for the questions -

1. Saturation - camcorderinfo revew indicates that colors on DVC arent as saturated compared to GS400. Can you achive GS satration level manually adjusting DVC?

((yes, but u have to remember that these reviews are usually an ill informed source with a day or so of the reviewer having a fiddle with the cam. The only way to trully compare is to run a side by side comparison AT THE SAME TIME, ie have both cameras rolling at once. To answer ur question though, the DVC can have its colour as well as other factors such as master pedestal, phase shifting, temperature etc etc etc.. these can be set into a scene file))

2. Cinegamma - can you use MovieLike setting in 60i/4:3?
In your opinion which cam has better cinegamma - DVC or GS?

((apparently the gamma curve is the same.. according to spec anyway.. but the built in ND and glass quality will obviously give the DVC a better finished look. Only the DVX/a allows for an adjsutment of Cinegamma TYPES.. ))

3. Frame mode - after reading all the posts here and everywere else im still confused - is it true 30fps on DVC, or double frames recorded in 60fs, just like on 953/GS400?
Which of the two cams has smoother frame mode?

((Frame mode is the interpolation of both fields.. basically the 2 frames are blended as one.. thats NOT to say theyre progressive as these CCDs are not.
Its all in cam Software which does this, and by the looks and widespread use of this feature, its more than likely the same across the DVC and GS..
As for smoother frame mode... theyre pretty much identical, so the only way to get this effect in the truest sense is to go for a native progressive CCD like the DVX or XL2))

4. Is it true that DVC 's lenses r wider and therefore it would have more horizonal coverage than GS (in the context of DVC30's wider lenses vs GS400's HQ WS)?

((yes.. much wider.. .7 wide i think from memory.. and the 16x zoom + the 1.5 digital adjsutment offers a 20x digital zoom (ie 16 optical + 4 digital with virtually no obviouis loss in quality)
but the lense is wide.. much like the dvx.. as for high quality 16:9, u can get anamorphic widescreen adapters for the DVC filter size. Im using a 16:9 anamorphic adapter for teh dvx and its superb, full res, no cropping, brilliant wideangles.. U can prolly find a similar lense for the GS))

5. I read in the DVC30's PAL manual that it 's got 2 image stabilization modes - the 'reglar' mode and on top of that additional hand shake sabilization mode? Do NTSC models have the same '2 lines of defense' and how much does this 'duo IS' acually improve stabilization?

never hear dof the 2... can u give me apage number on teh manual??
i DO know that both the GS and DVC have optical stabilisers.. but the DVC is running the same Gyro mechanism of the DVX. (hence the tapping when u tilt the cam) one thing on the GS, is that in picture mode, it runs a Mega optical Image stabiliser.. very stable, but only used for stills...

as for the PDX10, its still the only miniDV cam to run TRUE 16:9 with no deterioration in quality

I'm confused by this statement. There are plenty of MiniDV cams with true 16:9. The GS400, PC350, and Optura Xi come to mind first.

U can prolly find a similar lense for the GS

The GS400 offers a wider angle of view in 16:9 and has no vertical zooming to achieve its true 16:9 in-camera.

"I'm confused by this statement. There are plenty of MiniDV cams with true 16:9. The GS400, PC350, and Optura Xi come to mind first."

actaully they dont.. they crop 12.5% top and bottom then stretch the footage.. Total loss of 25%
the higher the pixel count in the cam (ie gs400) the better it will look, but its still not native..

the PDX10 DOESNT do this.. it uses its full CCD pixel capacity.. its well documented with many reviews as well as projects (and bradcast use) opting to use these cams until a better alternative is made available..

"The GS400 offers a wider angle of view in 16:9 and has no vertical zooming to achieve its true 16:9 in-camera."

Yes it does.. it crops the footage and stretches it.. as does the DVX squeeze mode, DVC squeeze, MX500 widescreen, yadda yadda u knwo where im goin..
it may be internal, but its not "true" widescreen at full resolution.. Pana may have added and interpolated upsampling routine to retain pixel count (simialr to the XL2s downsampling, which i doubt), but its still not the raw footage such as found in the PDX10

Peter,
The GS400 has "true" widescreen. It takes an 1152x646 footprint off the CCDs and makes it 720x480 without zooming at 1.2121 pixel width to height . Each widescreen frame has 740,000 pixels. Please see the illustration below from Panasonic.jp website


GS400 Widescreen (http://panasonic.jp/dvc/gs400k/colorful.html)

Peter, Guy is correct and many cams have 16:9 that is identically achieved as the PDX10. In fact the Optura Xi is even better in this regard (resolution).

Not to mention the GS400 has the same CCD and pixel arrangement as the PDX10. 1/4.7" 1070k per CCD.

Your information is a little dated as far as widescreen is concerned.

It's a pity Babelfish does not translate all the symbols.

Technical writing seems to be very difficult to translate accurately.

There are a lot of things I don't quite understand in this apparent comparison between GS100 and GS400.

It would be better if they compared the GS400 with the DVC30 or DVX100.


Carlos

i stand corrected, obviously they changed the spec...

groovy

Peter, the MX500 doesn't crop, but the ntsc version (DV953) does.

BAH!!!!!!!
GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRR PANASONIC NOT HAPPY DUDE!!!!!

bloody hell.. the buggers are stil on the boat docked somewher einon this godforsaken planet and i have an urgent shoot in 10 days..

so u knwo what i did??

I bought another DVX100a.. ;)

fuggin over 2 grand difference for an extra quart CCD and shorter zoom... ehhhh.....

over 2 grand difference for an extra quart CCD and shorter zoom... ehhhh.....

Well, you get a little more than just larger CCDs and a shorter zoom. :)

I just checked out CNET and in 3chip cam group they rave bout DVC30, made it second to only DVX100(A), outperforming both GL2 and VX2K..
go figure, rite Peter? )

the DVC 30 seems to be such a good cam too bad my other half wouldnt let me have it cuz its all black. On this note i gotta admit Pana was rite bout not bringing black GS400 to the NA, our women just hate the color )

Mike, are you saying that you didn't get a DVC30 because of your wife's color preference? :)

That always reminds me of a friend that lets his old entertainment center dictate what size TV he gets.

BTW - my wife liked my black imported GS100 and now my black/platinum DVX100A.

heres somethign interesting, had a client come in today to show off a short movie he dis..

he was absolutely astounded at the DVC's workamnship and image quality.. he doesnt buy his cams, but hired outthe approproate one for teh job.. so he took a dvc30 and made this film, 3 days later he won 4 awards with it...

he was using cineflick and was running frame mode... we threw it up on the 56' Plasma and it does look quite incredible..

cmapred to a dvx, i can personally notice the difference between progressive and frame (progressive is ALOT sharper and feels more natural cinematically.. ie your subconcious thinks its watching somethign shot with a Panavision) but the loss in sharpness between the 2 was small. Very impressed with it, considerinng it sise.. but im still to get my hands on one fora real test..

my dvx100a came in today and ive been messing with that and comapring the side by side differences between it and the original model..
Depending on the dvc, im seriosuly thinking about selling my old 100 and goin for the dvc, as size is a huge factor.. in the meantim, im prolly gonna hire out the 100... im rambling now so ill shut up