Hi there - Project properties field order is lower field first,
individual event properties say 'none progressive scan'.
Should they be reset to lower field first or vice versa?

Or does it even matter?

Yes it does matter. But it depends on how you recorded your
footage and with which camera. The Canon XL1S has a progressive
mode and so do other camera's like the DVX100. Depending on
that you either choose progressive for everything or lower field
first for everything (interlaced).

ahh...so much to learn, XL1S, I don't believe it's set for progressive though.

Does it matter between Lower Field First or Upper Field first?

Standard DV is lower field first. I would try LOWER before I tried anything else.

One final question, if I have interlaced video as a source, what steps do I need to take to output progressive?

Rob...

hate to differ with you but the XL1s Frame Mode is still interlaced scan. Just that both scans happen at the same instant in time. De-interlacing in the "interpolate fields" mode should give a very good single frame progressive.

Your welcome to differ Bill <g> I should've been a bit more carefull
when writing it down. Ofcourse it has no true progressive CCD's
so it is indeed interlace scanning CCD's, BUT WITH pixel shift.

In my opinion that always looks better than a de-interlace on the
computer (from what I've seen). It just "looks" like real progressive
although we all know it isn't in reality. So I meant to say that it
has a progressive out which isn't true progressive or something
like that.

Anyway, if you do capture in frame mode (semi progressive on the
XL1S) or true progressive on the XL2/DVX100 you set Vegas to
progressive instead of interlaced/lower field first. As I do with my
XL1S when editing footage.

Chris: what is your camera? if it has true progressive or a semi
form (only XL1(S)/GL1/2 has this) use that. Otherwise you'll have
to test and try various de-interlacing algorithms. I've never looked
at those since I always shot in frame mode.

Also there is a huge difference between lower and upper first,
stick with lower because, as Edward also states, that is the
format DV uses.

Bill, one of the properties of frame mode camera footage is that a frame (whether or not recorded as interlaced) is being composed out of two fields captured on two different slots in time. The frame mode in XL1s has the "one shot per frame" property which means that Rob is right. How they combine the pixels is not relevant for this definition.

....being composed out of two fields captured on two different slots in....
Sorry must be in one slot...

I have a GL2, I am aware of frame mode. Have not used it yet, but I thought that due to the pixel shift method used, I still had to have the workspace set up for lower first, not progressive, since it is not true progressive. It is still unclear to me...

My question related to previously shot interlaced footage though.

When shooting in frame mode you have to set your project
properties to PROGRESSIVE, NOT lower field first/interlaced.

Yes, DV is always interlaced, but that does not matter. The ONLY
difference in digital between interlaced and progressive is the
time difference between the fields. There is NO OTHER difference.

The data is stored exactly the same. Just select progressive!

setting to progressive is the equivalent of setting to de-interlace. if you set lower field first, you are asking for an interlaced video stream. Indeed, set it to progressive, but, also, ya should select the de-interlace method. Of the choices, I would recommend interpolate.

Why would you set de-interlace on progressive footage? That
will instruct the NLE to actually process your footage and should
yield lower resolution even with progressive since it will interpolate
your frames. Ofcourse if you actually have interlaced footage and
you want this turned into progressive de-interlace is the tool
for the job.

I'm taking all this as -- Frame Mode > use Progressive for everything, Capture and Project Properties, as well as Render
Properties. Video Mode > Lower Field First.

Yes/No ??

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this setting, Rob. Vegas has two options, either progressive or bottom/top field first. Those are the ONLY choices.

Now, if you have interlaced footage, or you want interlaced footage out, you select bottom/top field first and voila, you get interlaced out.

If you want de-interlaced, OR, if you're starting with progressive footage and you want progressive (aka de-interlaced) out, you select "progressive".

Now, in the special case of frame mode, as in the XL1s, where you get "simulated" progressive, but really, it's still interlaced footage, it depends what you want out of Vegas. If you want de-interlaced(same same if I call it progressive) then you select "progressive". If you're starting with progressive in the input stream, fine, NP. BUT, if you're starting with interlaced footage(and the XL1 is INTERLACED footage, even in the frame mode) then you will, by default, de-interlace it when you select progressive. If it's progressive in, it doesn't matter what de-interlacing mode you pick, interpolation or blend. If it's interlaced footage in and you select progressive, then it matters what de-interlacing method you pick. Since the XL1s frame mode captures both fields at the same instant, pixel shift not withstanding, then selecting interpolate will give a higher rez output, IMHO, than blend.



Does this help?

If ïnterpolate is being set, the system interprets one field and interpolates the lines for the next field (in order to get a "progressive" frame) ending up in vertical resolution loss as compared to the original progressive vertical resolution. Back to the field order point... Lower/upper field, top/bottom field, even/uneven field is a terminology which very "popular", but confusing (lower field in NTSC is upper field in PAL...) The only correct way to define the field order is "field order A" or "B" and "field 1 first"or "field 2 first". Because of all this confusion, even by "professionals, the best way is to test both and see what is right for the actual system.

Where's 'Interpolate Fields'?

Michael...

The choices INTERPOLATE, BLEND, or NONE appear in the options dropdown for the "Interpolate Method".

Andre...

"Interpolate", in the mathematical definition, is to calculate an intermediate point based on the definitions of the endpoints, usually done in a linear fashion. True, when the fileds are separated by a temporal difference, "interpolate" will reduce the rez. However, in the Canon frame mode, since no temporal difference exists between the captured fields(the endpoints), one can argue the following:

if one lets A=beginning field(endpoint)
B=ending field(endpoint)
C= an intermediate point(equal to half the difference for this example)
then, the following can be shown:
1-A=B
2-A+B = C
3-letting A=B, then substituting A+A=C
4-or 2A=C
5-In the definition of "mathematical interpolation, then the mid-point is 1/2 A
6-or A=B=C

So, you see, an interpolated result of two equal endpoints is itself equal to an endpoint. There is no rez loss when interpolating between two equal fields.

Bill, indeed there is no temporal difference, but there is spatial difference even in the pseudo framemodes. Spatiial difference is what counts and that's what you also get when there is no motion in an interlaced picture. Temporal difference is only a subset of temporal difference.

Andre...

If both fields are captured at the same instant in time (ie there is no temporal difference) how can there be a spatial difference? The only possibility I can conceive is that the 3 sensor arrays are separated by a physical difference, in which case you'd get a "3-D" effect (parallax)

Bill, each of the 480 active NTSC lines can have a different content in progressive and pseudo progressive modes. One can theoretically get a scene containing 240 black horizontal lines spatially interleaved with 240 white lines together forming a frame. This hypothetical image would, if recorded in interlace mode, end up in a black field followed by a white one. Interpollation would then result in a fully black or a fully white sequence, depending whether field one or field two was used for interpollation. Also oblique image structures generate 480 different line contents, in vertical direction and horizontal direction as well

Ah! Yes, I see, Andre. The scan lines are displaced, vertically, yes, of course, duh. Thanx for your patience. So, blur then becomes the favored de-interlacing method?

I'm happy we got agreed Bill. For the hypothical image content, indeed blur would be best, for other contents interpollate would be better... " intelligent " deinterlacers adapt their algorithme permanently. B.t.w. Bill you live in a splendid area...I have been there in May this year. My wife and I travel quite a lot...We stayed in the Santa Fe El Rey Inn. I remember the beautifull
Plaza, the Loretto chapel and St Francis Cathedral, Canyon road, Bandelier, the unique pueblo's and much more.

Yes, it is quite beautiful here. We've been under a drought for about 5 years, it's affected many of the trees as they're quite dead. It's sad the scale of it. The rains have returned, this year, however. Things are quite green and the wildflowers are blooming.