Here are two different compressions of the same footage, my GG orbiter device imaged at 720P on my JVC .
One is media9 at 7.5 megabits/sec , the other is Mpeg2 at about 10 megabits.

The lens is a 50mm junk Minolta lens.
Caveats:
There is a bit of vibration movement, it's because the rig is being held up by a very flimsy wood and hot glue setup. Not that optimal. The camera is just sitting on a piece of wood, not bolted down.
On frame left, you will see the edge of the GG frame pulsing, the framing is a bit off. Also,you can see me 'hunt' for focus a bit , I didn't have marks or stops on the lens.

Note: I included a slight pan, and used sufficient bit rate to show any possible grain artifacts. Posting stills of these tests is pretty much a waste of time, the problems only show in motion, as with the pan.
The device is pictured in the 'mini35 ideas' thread, it uses 3 shafts with 9 ball bearings and a small motor. Circle of orbit is about 1.5mm radius. Image target on GG is about 30mm across. No corrective optics used to fix hot spot. Shutter speed is 1/30.

http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/Osc-tests/7500Kb-media9-OscTest1a.wmv

---- these videos are about 24 megabytes , FYI ----
and the mpeg2 :
http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/Osc-tests/9Mbps-OSC-GG-test1.mpg

Are there other links to tests with GG at high bit rate with pan so we can see what's happening? I'd love to see some!

-Les

realy impressive !
de Dof effect is very great.
i wish i could do the same with my cam.
just finish a short, and i would have love that kind of effect.
by the way, i was wondering what would be the result without the gg ? i mean with just the 50mm lens ?
could post a still or a small footage to show the difference ?

Yes, the DOF effect is perhaps too great in that test, but I wanted to show the effect. Perhaps I can shoot the same setup with just the normal lens, but I already know what it will look like. There would only be a slight defocus of the objects, since the DOF is pretty deep with the normal lens, even with wide open aperture.
-Les

OK, I am almost up to my 5 gig / mo bandwidth limit on that account, so I pulled the videos for now. If someone wants to see it for more than just curiosity reasons, drop me a message at
hd-events at earthlink dot net and I'll send a link.

Isn't it funny that about 150 people looked at the video, and only one comment! I know I'm late to the GG DOF project frenzy, did the interest really just drop off like that?

Never did see another post with video showing one of these things actually *WORKING* either. With a bit rate and slow pan designed to show possible problems and not hide them under the compression or sly camera work. I guess people just gave up or something.

I did it as a fun project, I really don't think that a film needs DOF control like that to carry a great story and show dramatic content. IMO.

-Les

ive sent you an email, got no reply yet for this...

i think the setup can be useful for this camera in special, cause we have more controls over the lack of manual control.

i think the adaptor will allow me to use a lot of good lenses i have already.

anyway, it is hard to focus a subject by eye sometimes. so a lens with marks can provide a good workflow.

Les, can you post a JPEG of yours setup? and tell me where you bought this GG?

im really curious about it.!

thanks a lot

ciao

Hi Daniel,
Yes, I did get your email. Thanks!

I will not post pics of the current setup, as it is made of square wood pieces, and looks very ugly. Not made for production use by any means!
The core component is Aluminum, and is about 3.5 inch diameter and 2 inch thick.
The GG is nothing special, you don't have to have special GG because it is moving and hides blemishes. So no 5 micron grit made from moon dust needed ;)

-Les


<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : ive sent you an email, got no reply yet for this...

i think the setup can be useful for this camera in special, cause we have more controls over the lack of manual control.

i think the adaptor will allow me to use a lot of good lenses i have already.

anyway, it is hard to focus a subject by eye sometimes. so a lens with marks can provide a good workflow.

Les, can you post a JPEG of yours setup? and tell me where you bought this GG?

im really curious about it.!

thanks a lot

ciao -->>>

Moon dust! Why didn't you mention this before, Les?!
:-) j/k

Les, sorry about the lack of responses. I would like to encourage you to continue on with this project, as I have learned a lot from guys like you. Thanks a lot!

Les..I have a DOF adaptor in use on EVERY project that needs to look good...it's the best...I total am in love with it!! I will post you a 30sec spot when I get editing done so you can see the results!

hi everyone I just recived a piece of 5x9 ground glass from ebay seller .It looks real good. he has quite a few pieces. my winning bid was about ten dollars. this would work fine for a orbiter




http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...724092&rd=1

Obin, it definitely helps video look way more like film!
For outside use, do you find that the LCD is enough for you to find focus? I'm actually able to focus pretty well with it, on the HD10. It has a 'sharpened' mode that makes it alias and twinkle when the focus is right on.
A bit clunky for run and gun shooting.
Lets get more posts of good examples, it's exciting to see and motivates the experimenters like me!

-Les



<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : Les..I have a DOF adaptor in use on EVERY project that needs to look good...it's the best...I total am in love with it!! I will post you a 30sec spot when I get editing done so you can see the results! -->>>

Les-

Send me off a link to your video so I can check it out. From what it sounds like you have a nice working adapter there. I dont know if your interested in doing any more work on it but heres some things that I've done to improve my adapter.

1)Medium format GG with optimized grain for both brightness and contrast. This larger/improved gg allows for the following:

A)Much Brighter images (due to the qualities of the GG and the ability to not have to zoom on the video camera's lens and loose more stops). Unlike even the professional Mini35, this design allows the adapter to be used in even low light situations.

B)Higher contrast/definition video

C)No need for a close up lens.

D)The ability to use more than 35mm lenses. You can use medium format, swing/tilt lenses, etc.

I also added a few other things such as variable speed control, micro bearings, ultra silent motor, running light and even a battery dock so I can use the same battery as the one that runs my video camera.

So dont worry your not alone. There are other people out there making adapters still. Anyways send me a link to your adapter. I dont mind if its made out of plywood.

Brett Erskine
Director of Photography
www.CinematographerReels.com
BErskine@mail.com

P.S. Are you using a close up lens to get that 30mm target area?

Brett,

are you using What medium format GG? where did you bought it?
do you have the HD10u too?

lens, can you explain how you did the ORBITER part? u mean you make the gg move? how?

ciao


i really need to know exactly how to do it, i need to setup one of these !

I made it move the same way as a P+S Technik does theirs. I just used 4 mounting points instead of three because my GG is square and I wanted to make my adapter extremely small so the whole thing was totally portable. There was a post about a month ago that had a link to a page that showed pictures of the interior parts of the Mini35. Could someone please post it for Dan? Good luck.

The GG was custom made by small manufacture that specialises in calibrated focusing screens for cameras.

brett,

is it possible for you to send me one of these GG? how much it was?

please, help a brazilian filmmaker ! im just a third world man trying to get ready for the war...hehe

ciao

what`s your email adress?

Brett, I need to sort out my bandwidth on the server I use, but I will get that video to you. You wern't one of the 150 that looked at the video ? I still can't believe how many lurkers there are on here !
And how many that downloaded both the mpeg2 and the media9 ... what the hay, greedy little buggers ! ;)

SOOO .... How abouts you post up a little sample for all to see?
I'm the only one that posted a video at high quality so far.

ps: anyone remember where that pdf is with the mini35 pictures? Some folks are interested in the workings.

-Les

I'll send a link to them shortly

Here is that link previously posted, for how the stuff works:
http://www.pstechnik.de/sheets/downloads/pp-dec12.pdf

-Les

I'll post a video when Im all done constructing it. It should really be something to see even compared to the Mini35 itself.

brett,

its easy for you to reproduce this Unity?

or send the exacts plans?

im really need one of these...

you people got to help me!

Hello.

I'm one of those lurkers.
I did not reply since my knowledge about these things are so low.
I do have a few questions though.
What is causing the flashing of the light in the lower left corner? Also, is it just me or does the image vibrate a little?
The DOF is damn cool though and there seems to be less noise (chroma noise I think it is) than in other JVC HDV clips I've seen, did you use some filter for that?.

Best, Magnus.

Sigh...

I'm waiting on southern Mississippi to figure out what broadband is, so that I can post some high-rez motion footage, instead of sequential framegrabs.

;-)

The framing was off a little, and the camera was seeing too much of the left part of the GG, so you see the edge of it moving. The camera was just loose, so I could move it around, The bottom left flicker is the counter weight. There is a bit of image vibration, the mount needs to be made of something sturdy, not the temp wood setup I used to hold it up for the test. I did run a virtual dub chroma filter on the footage, yes.

My bandwidth limit gets reset on the 16th, I can mail links to the HD video test after that.

-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Magnus Andersen : Hello.

I'm one of those lurkers.
I did not reply since my knowledge about these things are so low.
I do have a few questions though.
What is causing the flashing of the light in the lower left corner? Also, is it just me or does the image vibrate a little?
The DOF is damn cool though and there seems to be less noise (chroma noise I think it is) than in other JVC HDV clips I've seen, did you use some filter for that?.

Best, Magnus. -->>>

Brett...how small is your unit now? do you think it could be built inside a camera or will it have to be outside the body?? I would like to design our camera around your system so that you never take the GG adaptor on or off...it's part of the body

les thank you for the clip. I have made a agus 35, and a aldu35
this looks to be the most promising .

Remember guys, It's not really Brett's system, or my system.... it's Pstechnik's .
Brett, what is the diameter and depth of your module? My 3 shaft one is 1.5" deep and 3.5" diameter. Did you try a 4 shaft design? I think that saves room for a bigger GG. That size doesn't include the motor, it fits outside the main diameter.

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : Brett...how small is your unit now? do you think it could be built inside a camera or will it have to be outside the body?? I would like to design our camera around your system so that you never take the GG adaptor on or off...it's part of the body -->>>

My GG is aprox. 60mm square and the off set shafts make it move in a 2-3mm circle. With this said it isnt a option for a in-camera system but if you plan on using only 35mm lenses then you could make it small enough to be in camera.

Im hunting for a slick looking project box for it right now. In the mean time a regular one will do. The bottom of the box will have a section where you can run a standard 15mm rail system thru so you can mount it properly - not to mention run a follow focus set up.

check out this shot from a take in the spot I am working on now:

www.dv3productions.com/test_images/DOF shot.jpg
www.dv3productions.com/test_images/DOF shot2.jpg
www.dv3productions.com/test_images/DOF shot3.jpg

Brett I really want to test your GG with the HD camera I am working on...how can you help me out? I could test it for a week? or?

The shots look like they use the DOF effectively. They do look a bit soft, maybe because it's a proxy or something.
I have yet to shoot a res target with mine, with and without the DOF gadget in place. I think it does loose a touch of resolution however. I think the before and after resolution of these DOF things like the one I made should be part of the testing for effectiveness. MTF is MTF and DOF shouldn't impact it too much.
Sometimes low budget filmmakers get fooled into thinking that softening the image is part of the 'film look'. Film isn't soft. Interesting dilemma!
-Les Dittert

obin, what is the camera you used in this setup?

Since there is such a demand for these two files, why don't we bittorrent them? It will cost Les 0 bandwidth, and everyone (including the non posters) is required to lend a helping hand.


Rob

dvx100 miniDV 3ccd camera Panasonic

the spot looks very nice..when you have moving images the "softness" is much less then a still

I agree Les. I'll post a rez chart with and without my adapter. I even try and do the same with my friends P+S Technik mini35 because I have a feeling that with the larger image area of my adapter that its going to be a sharper image then even the P+S Technik (which uses a tiny cine sized GG)

-Brett Erskine

obin,

what was the HD camera u told that want to test with the brett adaptor?


brett, if you come with a solution for the HD10u that is better than the PS TEKNICK, ... u sure are tha man

ciao

Rob,
That sounds good. Ive used bittorrent, but how do I serve a file with it? Also, doesn't it rely on people keeping the file 'On' for the idea to work?
I should have my free bandwidth back on the 16th.

Brett, I agree that a bigger GG could mean a sharper image. The grain, integrated by motion, still disperses and diffuses the light rays, so a bigger GG would possibly minimize that. But we don't know at what resolution that happens at yet. My test shows that my 30mm glass still transfered an HD image. Therefore a DV 720 across image would not loose sharpness, the the frequencies that mine possibly attenuated are not present in a DV web cam sized image.
-Les


<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Hester : Since there is such a demand for these two files, why don't we bittorrent them? It will cost Les 0 bandwidth, and everyone (including the non posters) is required to lend a helping hand.


Rob -->>>

Hello all.

Thank you Les Dit for your answers.

What's the name of the virtualdub filter?

About bittorrent:

The bittorrent client Azureus has a built in tracker (from their page: "Azureus has a built in tracker to allow users to share torrents directly, rather than uploading them to an "external" tracker.") The homepage is here: http://azureus.sourceforge.net/

Best, Magnus.

Virtual dub filter was the one by Giles Mouchard, google it!
-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Ladner : Sigh...

I'm waiting on southern Mississippi to figure out what broadband is, so that I can post some high-rez motion footage, instead of sequential framegrabs.

;-) -->>>

Hey Frank, step up up to northern MS... we have broadband, believe it or not :-)

Magnus: Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.ifrance.com/freevcr/virtualdub/cnr-en.html



<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Keen :
Hey Frank, step up up to northern MS... we have broadband, believe it or not :-) -->>>

LOL! Well I am glad to know I'm not the only Mississippian on these forums! Water Valley...is that in Yalobusha?

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Ladner :

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Keen :
Hey Frank, step up up to northern MS... we have broadband, believe it or not :-) -->>>

LOL! Well I am glad to know I'm not the only Mississippian on these forums! Water Valley...is that in Yalobusha? -->>>

yes sir, it is indeed Yalobusha county... small world, eh?

I can now email a link to the HD test I did at the begining of this thread, as my bandwidth usage was reset.

Brett, were you going to post a sample as well ?

-Les

Soon. I've been working too much to be able to work on it lately. I also have another side project in the works. On camera light powered by 200 LED's.

sweet - 200 super bright LEDS?

Sounds interesting. One thing I learned though is that LEDs are not as efficient as compact fluorescents, as in lumens per watt.
I think one person here posted a picture of a setup that used a compact fluorescent with a battery powered inverter. A bit bulky. At least the LED light would be compact, and that's important. And they don't break when the lights fall over!
-Les



<<<-- Originally posted by Brett Erskine : Soon. I've been working too much to be able to work on it lately. I also have another side project in the works. On camera light powered by 200 LED's. -->>>

we already discuss that here
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15617

Ah yes, thank you Frank.

Have been trying it but found results to be so-so.

Best, Magnus Andersén

Les,
I have a jvc hd10u and id be interested in purchasing a 'kit' of your orbital gg from you. you can email me at jpruss2001@hotmail.com

thanks