Is there a "lesser" camera that might also strike your fancy and be what you need for the meantime (3 months or so)?
trv950
gs100k
Optura Xi
dv953

Now is probably a pretty good time to buy a VX2000, since the prices are good. I saw the Sony announcement about the new model, but I think it's being released in Europe first, unless I'm mistaken. The differences are not major, only slight improvements to an already solid camera--nothing that would make the original obsolete. I'm sure the link to the announcement is posted somewhere around here.

hmm...

now i have to think about it.

getting a 950 seems like a waste to spend almost as much for a lesser camera...

i used to have unlimited usage of a vx-1000 but i don't have that anymore and i really don't want to do this project with a 1 chip camera.

my plan until i saw the vx-2100 announcement was to get a vx-2000 with a beach tek dual xlr box and a samson airline micro.

the thing that threw me about the vx-2000 was wondering if it might have different audio i.e. xlr inputs? probably too much to hope for.

i had a hard enough time deciding to get a vx-2000 vs. a pd-150

matthew

I'm quite certain the new model won't have XLRs. Sony reserves those for what it considers its professional or "prosumer" cameras...otherwise people might not pay more.

Didn't the upgrade to the PD-150 come already? If that upgrade is anything like the VX2100 then you wouldn't be missing out on much.

Wait for the new model. Unless your current project brings you in enough money to buy another camera.

Stelios

well I'm going to be getting my first decent camera setup sometime this mounth. I've got about 1500 to spend. I'm looking at getting a panny DV953 from buydig for 1050. this leaves me about 500ish for acessories.

I'm going to be doing alot of sports so need a tripod, I know I don't have enough for an expensive one but i've been using a cheapy one for the past 3 mounths so I can live with one in the 100-150 range. anyone have any sugestions?

Also I would like to get a Wide Angle lens for the cam so anyone have any suggestions thier?

Also does anyone make a zoom control for the 953? used one on our studio cams in Highschool and I loved them

I might start to do wedings this spring with another guy so what other accessories should I keeping in mind to get.

anyhelp would be greatly apreciated.

Jon,

Bogen makes great tripods, and for video their low-end ones start at about 200. I would definately spend the money, because a bad tripod makes for bad footage. Check out www.bhphotovideo.com.

As for the weddings...speaking from experience...get and make sure you have enough portable batteries for the camera and light for the entire night, without question. If you don't, it can be one horrible scene when telling the wedding party you didn't get it.

Good Luck!

Clay

In a couple of months I would like to upgrade to a camera with full manual controls. I have between 1500-2500 to spend. I will be using the camera to make short films and maybe the occasional wedding. I have additonal funds for lighting and stabilization, but I'll burn those bridges after I buy the new cam. My knowledge is minimal, but I want very much to learn, and after a couple of months of owning it, I can already see that my consumer cam (panna dv53) isn't going to get me there. I've been doing research, but everything I read just seems to add to my confusion.
Any advice anyone can offer would be appreciated.
Thanks,
MG

For that money you are budgeting, the Canon GL2 is your best bet. It has a full manual mode and will allow for what it seems you want. Check out the specs and features at the link below or go to the link below it for other info from Canon.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/?BI=155
Canon Link:
http://www.canondv.com/gl2/promo.html?GCID=C10678x004

This camera has great quality and many options that will allow you to do many different things from shorts to weddings. Without going to a DVX100 or an XL1S, this would be what I go with!

Hope this helps.

Clay

If you need to make camera movements while shooting then get a tripod that's not sticky and will give you fluid movements. Some tripods can get better if you just tighten them.

I would also get a decent microphone next, as the on-board microphone probably stinks. I'm not sure which models are good (Sony, Azden, Sennheiser, etc. sell shotgun mics with the minijack connector).

The VX2000 has the best low light performance in that price range. If you can buy used in your city it won't cost you whatever B&H is charging ($2300, which is close to the best new price you can get). Low light is very important for weddings. A light (with some diffusion on it) will also help a lot. A good sound setup is also very important. A shotgun mic like the Sennheiser ME66/K6 + a wireless system seems to be the most popular among wedding videographers. The wireless is to pick up the wedding vows. Planting a minidisc recorder near the altar instead could be an alternative.

0n 9-30 an XL1-s sold for 2000k if you want a great camera the XL1 is not over rated it's a great cam. Be aware of hidden costs when purchasing any cam. the cost to upgrade to a wide angle lens for example may put your 1500. at 2000k instantly or worse I guess you must know this just thought it was worth mentioning
If you can find a cam that you like used you really do reduce your costs and may get some of those extras deferred. try e-bay and use pay-pal this way your purchase is protected. Also the big drag to the GL2 is that it's a fixed lens and all wide angle stuff is a screw on this never seams to give the image quality that a 3ccd cam is capable of you will notice it when you add the adapters. What the XL can do (and the 1 or 1s is not a huge deal) Is save you time editing you can get more fluid shots and the lenses are quick to change out. Shots like a pan shot is not hard to compress but a telephoto zoom through an extender is a big deal.
sorry for the long post the question does have a long answer. Best of luck

Thanks to all of you. These cams were all on my short list, so the answers are, if nothing else reassuring. I am leaning towards the XL-1, but funny as it may sound the buzz surrounding it, and its nifty apperanece put me off a little. In the past I've burned myself by purchasing the coolest item- I'm currently heating my home with a mac G-4 cube/ - so I have become wary.
Thanks again.
Mg

Look into:

Panasonic DVC80 : wide lens, built-in XLRs, 1/3" chips (Gl2 has 1/4"?), very good in low light,plenty of manual controls, exceptional audio, $2400 at B&HPHOTO.

JVC DV300u : 1/3" chips, $2400

thanks i'll look into a bogen tripod so that brings me to 1250ish with about 250 for the rest

In defense of both the cube was a good idea it cools by convection no fan as long as you give it room to breath it'll be ok and its great for recording audio (no fan noise)

I agree on the XL1 hype I too was sceptical I do not usually go in for band wagon popularity stuff as I can see you don't either as you are a make do user and a mac person. I would encourage the purchase of an XL. I currently have two (it solved a compatibility/expense issue) Where by the stuff for one fits the stuff for the other and the crew does'nt bicker "she always gets the XL1 (thats because shes cute now shut up:) )" but I really can't see how you could go wrong I really do not.
just watch the pricing and think about a used one very few people even monkeys would abuse 3500 $ worth of equipment if they own it so used is not a bad way to go.

Actually, I've solved most of my heat issues by adding an external fire wire drive.
Thanks again for the advice, I do think I will get myself an XL-1.

MG

<<<--I would encourage the purchase of an XL. I currently have two (it solved a compatibility/expense issue) Where by the stuff for one fits the stuff for the other and the crew does'nt bicker "she always gets the XL1 (thats because shes cute now shut up:) )">>>

That's really funny! Sounds like you guys have a good time on set.

Actually, I did conduct a search and didn't find much in terms of what I was looking for.

It seems this forum is geared more towards professionals but I'm hoping a 'civilian' will be able to benefit from the collective knowledge here.

I'm pretty new to videography and am currently in the research phase of purchasing a new camera.

As stated in the subject line, the purpose will mostly be recreational (family/friends, holidays, etc) with the occasional event coverage (nightclub parties, indoor and outdoor car shows, motorsport). I've narrowed it down to just single CCD cameras since I really don't have a need for a 3-CCD at this time. Although I'm sure I'll want to upgrade soon enough.

What I am looking for are recommendations. My price range is up to $1000 retail and the camera needs decent (if not good) lowlight capability.

TIA!

See if you can still find the older JVC GR-DV3000 or Panasonic PV-DV852. They were both good and not bad with lower light....nightclub parties, indoor and outdoor car shows...

Thanks, Frank. I tried to do some additional research on those two cameras.

From the reviews on CNET (not even sure if that's a good resource for camcorders), there are gripes about the JVC not being able to focus properly in auto mode (which is what I'd most likely be using most of the time) and the fact that it has no external mic input.

As for the Panasonic, I have yet to come across a bad review/comment about it (including here on DVi - you also seem to be a fan of it). Do you think major stores will still have them in stock? And what is the model that replaced the DV852 and is it any better?

Anyone have any firsthand experience with the following cameras?

Canon Optura Xi

Panasonic AG-DVC7

Sony DCR-TRV38/39

Sony DCR-TRV70/80

Thanks again for the help!

Tom.

I've heard nothing but good things about the Optura Xi. Its predecessor, the Optura Pi, was easily one of the best small-budget camcorders, and it looks like the Xi is following right in its footsteps. I hear it's awesome in low light.

The TRV19/22 has better low light than the TRV33/38 if I remember correctly ("5 lux" versus "7 lux" say Sony). It's still not very in dark situations but it's about as good as it gets for a 1CCD cam.
It's pretty small but not quite as small as the PC- line of camcorders. Figure out how small is good enough for you and how important size is.

Gripes about the camera would be poor on-board mic (as with a large majority of cams- probably get an external mic instead like MKE300), false colors in some situations, and the LCD touch screen (not too practical to use while rolling tape, but most cams like decent manual control anyways). The LCD touch screen isn't an issue if you shoot full auto, which works quite well in 90% of situations. The resolution is not as good as higher end cams but I find the resolution really good anyways.

Frank's recommendations are probably good too- if you can find those cameras.

This site: http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?tt=url&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww4.big.or.jp%2F%257Ea_haru%2Findex.html&lp=ja_en should give you a rough idea of how cameras stack up in good lighting and in low light. MX3000 = DV952. The 952 has better low light than the 953 is what Frank says.

Do a site search on the Canon Xi. It got good initial impressions reviews, but I believe there's one person who bought it and is not happy with it for a variety of reasons, one of them being auto mode. (I'm thinking that recreational can often mean fast moving, when you want to just be able to switch on the cam and know you're going to get something decent.)

My price range is up to $1000 retail and the camera needs decent (if not good) low-light capability.If you want a new model one chip cam with less lux requirements---there aren't any. That's why I suggested those 2 slightly older models. Another good one, and probably even better than the 2 I mentioned would be the Optura 100MC. It's a large "upright" with a big lens and a 1/3.6" CCD (as the DV3000). Now this gives you another model to look for. Sometimes you can find a sweet deal on a discontinued model. The trick is to pick a good one.

Thanks everyone!

I'm going to go check out those cameras and see what suits me best.

For about a year I've been looking for a good DV camera. I've been in and out of so many forums I can't count. Including this one and DV.com. So I've finally just decided to post to get people's opinons. Ok, so I'm 16, and I am a serious videographer. I don't just video tape "jackass" stuff or the occassional event. I make short films to enter into contests and output on DVD. I've been using a Digital 8 camera for some time now and feel comfortable enough with filmmaking and cameras to upgrade to DV.
I'd personally say that I am intermediate to Pro on how to use cameras. I have worked with an XL1 on a commercial shoot before and liked it. My problem is this, I am a 16 year old. I don't have much money. I recently won a film festival and got 1k for winning. I want to get a high end DV camera. But I also want to build a P4 w/ HT for editing gaming and rendering. I use premiere. So my question is.....Should I buy a PV-DV953 and use Christmas money to build the computer, or put all the money into a camera such as the GL2. I will also be doing most of my film work under plenty of light, natural and artificial.

I am also applying for a summer film school. Would I "look ametur" with a PV-DV953? I will most likely continue my career with this.....any opinion will help. Thanks.

Iam 17 and i would personally go wiht the gl2. I just got a editn pc not to long ago i ordered a vx and got screwed so i got a gl2 for upcomg x mas. Get the gl2 i think it will be worth it

Tough call if the money is slow. You will learn more about camera work with the GL2. If you're already able to edit and burn satisfactorily, why not properly upgrade the camcorder now?

Riley,

Your name rings me a bell...
Was your award for a short film given by a video magazine this year?
Anyway, moving up from D8, you'll gain control on white balance and better lenses, whether you choose a GL2 or a DV953.
It's not all about the equipement, you know, it has more to do with the talent you have.
Also, check the audio features on your nest cam.
Look for complete manual controls overall.

I currently have the following:

Sony Digital 8
Sennheiser MKE300
Athlon XP 2400 w/ 512 DDR, 80 gig HD, Firewire, XP Pro - Main Edit
1ghz Duron w/ 512 DDR XP Pro - Render Node

I Figure I'll probably upgrade RAM and get a bigger Harddrive if I don't end up building the P4 w/ HT.

I made a short film on freedom called "Utopia" that won a contest in Oklahoma.

I figure I've probably got a good editing machine and mic. So I guess I just need some reassurance to get the GL2.

And not to sound cocky or anything, but I think I probably have the talent. B/C I was accepted to the summer film school last year as a sophmore but couldn't attend due to prior obligations. But I am making it a priority to go this year.

If your'e going to film school, you may not need anything. They probably have cameras available for students to use.

well its a summer one and its funded by the state education and private donors, its basically an art school, like they have poetry acting etc. and from what i understand they only have 3 sony handycams....who knows if they have 3 ccd's, plus i do alot of video work around town, like commercials, etc.

If you're doing any commercials, then I'd say you need at least a 1/3" chip camera. Now that the VX2100 is out, it's a pretty good time to get a VX2000 at a very low price...probably about what the GL2 costs.

yes....but the sony does not have frame mode, 20x zoom, etc....

also is my computer suffiecient for editing and after effects rendering

You should be able to run Vegas fine on your computer. Premiere Pro may not run depending on whether or not your AMD processor has the SSE instruction set.

Make sure your monitor can run at a high resolution (1280X___) or have 2 monitors (need a video card that supports dual monitors [most do] with the right connectors). No NLE works well at 800X600, while 1024X768 is quite cramped. Try a high resolution and see how your eyes take it.

A faster computer will of course render faster. For After Effects you can setup a render node/farm to render faster. I don't have any experience with that program though.

yes....but the sony does not have frame mode, 20x zoom, etc....
frame mode may not be too important (more vertical resolution, worse looking motion, progressive images)
20X zoom isn't too useful unless you're using a tripod. For controlled shooting situations, it might help you get more depth of field, but the VX2000 has bigger chips. Not sure which is better.
The VX2000 has a lot better low light, but that isn't particularly useful for movie making. It would be useful for documentaries and weddings though.
To me the VX2000 gives slightly nicer images. There are some image comparisons over at http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?tt=url&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww4.big.or.jp%2F%257Ea_haru%2Findex.html&lp=ja_en.

You'll probably be happy with either. The only major difference I see is that the VX2000 has superior low light.

The main difference is that bigger chips give you a cleaner, sharper image. If you play the same footage from a 1/4" chip camera next to that from a 1/3" chip camera the 1/4" chip stuff will appear soft. Frame mode and a longer zoom are not relevant in most TV spots. You want the highest resolution and cleanest picture you can get.

i do have a render farm setup, its quite nice, i just have to turn on the node and it starts up AE upon OS boot

shoot the vx2100 is only 2400 at B&H, if i could get 1400 for christmas (Doubtful) i could get one, i have a while, i could save.....

with the render farm of the 2400 and the 1 ghz duron i can render 1 min of magic bullet footage with look suite applied in an hour...not too shabby....

Riley, I'd be looking at the best camera possible. You computer set-up sound pretty good and you can upgrade computers gradually as money comes in. You wouldn't be dissaapointed in either the VX2100 or the GL2, or the 953 for that matter in terms of image quality but the VX/GL win in terms of image control.

I'm sure I'll get many opinions on this subject, but here it goes anyway. I'm looking to purchase my first DV mini cam. What camera would you say would be the best overall camera? Take price,performance,reliability and everything into account. Right now I shoot mainly outdoor sporting events, hockey games, and some other thing's. I've had many people try and sell me on the Canon XL1-s but $4,600 is a little out of my range at this time. Besides, I've read reviews saying this is not the camera to be carried around in the way I would use it. ANy help would be great. Also I really like the Sony's. So anyone with any of the Sony camera's I'd really like to hear what you have and how you like it. Thanks

Check out the Panasonic 953, it's a very popular, well featured entry level priced 3CCD camera.

What's your budget?
The Panny 953 that Adrian suggests is certainly a good choice. I'd also consider a Canon GL2 if you have the $2300 to spend.

You mentioned sports - hockey games. Don't consider a PV-DV953 because it requires more LUX than most other 3 chip hand-held cams. Though larger, I would look at the Sony VX2000. It's a very good buy right now.

The GL2 (or XM2 as its called in PAL land) is a top camcorder, you should consider it for sure.

After a lot of research, i have decided to go with the XM2(GL2) for myself, if you can afford it i would go with it...
(asuming you don't need the ability to change lenses).

It has many of the great features of the XL1s (frame movie mode, clearscan, great lens) It also has a very simular image quality to the XL1s, some prefer the image quality of the GL2/XM2, some prefer the image quality of the XL1s.
It competes strongly with the camcorders that are $1000-$2000 dollars more (xl1s, vx2000) Often compared to those cameras in reviews/forum posts...
Also the GL2 is smaller and lighter than the XL1s.

However, it depends if your looking for a consumer style cam for a first purchase, or a semi-pro camera.
But if its a semipro camera your looking for, the GL2 is by far the best in the price range, and even outdoes some of the more expensive cams in some areas:) (although i agree the VX2000 should also be considered if you have the money, depends what features you are looking for) Personally even if i had the money for the VX2000 i would go for the XM2 (frame mode is a very important feature IMO)

Your really need to work out exactly what you wan't out of your camera, But with any of the above cams, there all well above the quality of average consumer MDV cams.
The 953 won't be as good as the canon xm2/gl2/xl1s, or as good as the vx2000, but it does , from as far as i can see, offer good quality video, but pretty bad low light performance.

Dear all,

I'm looking for a camera that can tolerate heavy duty (such as mountain climbing (shaky), asia forest (hot), winter snowing (cold) etc.). XL1s probably a bad choice for this purpose since it needs good care and it's sensitive. PD150 is a good choice I think. How about DVX100 and VX2000?

Any camera you choose is going to need to be taken good care of. Remember you are dealing with a piece of sensitive electronic gear that has glass and electronics and little rollers all stuffed tightly inside.

Having said that, the camera you choose is up to you but I can only tell you that most of the cameras that US newspeople and video journalists used while covering the "war in Iraq" were PD150's. Of course the networks bought them by the dozens and the camerapeople had to clean them daily or more AND take take careful care of them.

I personally like the Sony but thats me, perhaps others will have a different choice but whichever you choose, take good care of it.
Good Luck in your choice,
Don

The PD150 shoots in DVCAM mode which may or may not make a difference in hot/cold shooting environments (heat affects the length of the tape slightly). DVCAM uses 50% more tape to record which makes should make it more robust.

Reporters in Iraq I believe had a lot of problems with dust killing their equipment although lots of equipment there have that problem.