I see, you want small, you want frame mode, and you want a 3 chip. I'd then go with the MX via Tim. I have it's PDF manual download links at:
www.dvfreak.com/pana_mx5.htm

I've known Tim for over 2 years, and heard nothing but good feedback from people who have bought from him.

I realize Canon downgraded the lens and CCD with the 200MC, they did this to make the cam smaller. The 100MC was a very large upright model. Just send me an e-mail, and I'll redirect that spec/info review. I haven't yet seen the 200MC, just read up on it. It looks nice, though, and looks like it's easier to hold than the 100MC.

That Walsh23 post, I'll also e-mail you about who this trouble maker is. I was shocked to discover who the culprit was. Since he realized that I and other dv.com members know about is identity, he's since yanked most of his reference with of his wedding, cam shoot-out! It's now just about his son's wedding. Go figure.

Certified Drunk, I would just buy a smaller, 1 chip camera for that. If you wipe out, and the camera breaks, you're not going to be out that much money. Get one with an optical stabilizer...I can only think of 2:

Panasonic PV-DV852
Canon Optura 200MC

...as far as 1 CCD cams go for in the 2002 lineup. Did I miss one?

If you want a small 3 chip, look at the MX3000 or better the MX5000. It'll cost you a bit more, however; and you'll have to get used to a little Japanese.

www.dvfreak.com/pana_mx5.htm

Whatever you get, buy it from a major seller that tries to soak you with extended warrenties that most people will never need. Buy those warrenties. That way when you bring your camera back in a bag in 200 pieces, you can laugh as you leave with a new camera. Maybe a bit of an exageration, but you get my point, I'm sure.

And I would get the smallest lightest camera you can, personaly.

Along the same topic...
I was going to buy a new Canon mini-upright camera to use as a deck and for personal/fun use. I was also thinking about taking it white water rafting so I would need a housing for it. Could someone direct me to a link of waterproof/underwater housings? I'm mostly looking for cheapest.
Thanks

I'm looking into underwater housings right now. I will of course ask the DVInfo.Net sponsors for their recommendations. Going for a swim with the camera 9unintentionally) is a real possibility where I'll be.

As far as compact 3-CCD cams go someone also mentioned the new SONY TRV-950, but the general consensus is that it's a bit lacking in ergonomic quality, particularly easy one-hand operation.

Thanks guys, lol on the warranty! I was just standing there filming and the thing just fell apart. honestly

Ritz Camera sells an extended warranty that covers water damage. They call it a Damage Protection Plan and it covers all defects and abuses except fire and theft. It's pricey but offers a good value if your putting your camera in harms way. It is available for terms of 1 to 5 years and at the expiration, the plans are yearly renewable. I know of many people who have collected new cameras under the plan.

Jeff

Ugh.

Re: "Thanks guys, lol on the warranty! I was just standing there filming and the thing just fell apart. honestly"

Frank,

I take it you've had bad luck with the Ritz Camera warranty or your just expressing a personal opinion and not a fact. I doubt you'll find a better warranty in the industry. Ritz is a large merchant and faces it's own problems as such. However, they do try hard and they mean well. Overall they are a positive force in the camera industry. They are not going to provide the level of service that an advanced amateur or professional (such as your self) needs. But they do fill a vital role. As a point of reference they are the largest Nikon dealer in the world and probably the largest Minolta dealer in the world. They didn't get there by providing terrible customer service.

Jeff

Hi all-
I'm looking to buy a camera to do some light DV editing and such for a relatively large church (about 300 persons). Right now I am stuck between the Sony MiniDV camcorders and the JVC MiniDV camcorders. Any advice on which one I should buy? I'm looking for best image quality for under $1000.

Thanks so much!
Derek Snyder

If you are going to use the camera seriously, as in recording a church service or some other event, you probably know you'll want to mount it on a tripod. When you do, you'll notice the *biggest* single problem you'll have is making smooth, slow, nice looking zooms. Bending over the camera with your fingers on the zoom rocker is not the way to do it. What you'll want to do is use a remote zoom controller (see www.varizoom.com and similar manufacturers).

The JVC camcorders have no provision for remote zoom and focus control, but all Sony and all Canon DV camcorders do. The controller plugs into the LANC jack on these cameras. Trust me, this is a big deal and if you want my advice, you should base your decision on it.

If you're not going to shoot from a tripod, then maybe it's no big deal. Under $1000 all that really matters is, how does the camera feel in your hands. If you can get down to Manhattan, walk into B&H, the largest camera store in the world, and definitely try before you buy. Personally I think you'll be happier with a Sony or Canon. Hope this helps,

If you really want to impress the church-folk, take some of that $1000 and invest in a wireless mic setup so you can pull in some good quality sound. It doesn't matter how nice the picture is if they can't hear what's being spoken.

Since you are going to be staring at the LCD screen for hours on end, I'd also suggest getting the one with the biggest screen.
The vari-zoom controller is a good idea. Being hunched over the camera with your fingers on the zoom rocker is extremly hard on the back after 30 minutes.

Consider the Panasonic PV-DV702. Then with the money left over, buy an extra battery, a UV (protective) filter, a cheap protective bag/case (Lowepro Vidcam 2), and a tripod/head.

Stick with 1 brand/type of miniDV tape
(www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm)

Your total would then be about $1000.

www.dvfreak.com/buyersguide.htm

Jeff,

I wasn't referring to Ritz. I was referring to this fellow's need for a good warranty because of what he is going to do with a cam. "Ugh" was meant as a response to the dropped cam, an expression.

And thanks for the little bit about Ritz. I'm actually looking for some Nikon odds and ends for my FM2-T. Really. I'll check them out.

Sorry Frank, I misunderstood the Ugh. I don't work for Ritz or am related to anyone who does. But they do serve a role in the camera industry. They can move product. In most markets Ritz has what they call a Nikon HQ store which will stock most of the odd ball items. They also have regional warehouses with inventory and they can transfer between stores. If they are ever out of a product they will ship N/C also. However, small items, in stock, are what the smaller merchants can excell at.

Jeff

I'm a film student and I have basically no budget to shoot on, but I've done a lot of work with hi-8 cameras and obviously I'm dissappointed with video quality. I primarily use premiere, and I have decided to purchase a miniDV camera to use. I've noticed that most semi-professional users go with the XL1s and the canon GL1 I think, but those models are way above my price range.

What I'm looking for is a miniDV camera for under $1200 with high image quality and decent sound. I'd also like to get a camera that is easy to accessorize, so that in the future (when I can afford it) I may be able to attach a wide angle lense etc. The market is a bit confusing because I don't know much about how these cameras perform in the real world. Some cameras, for instance, boast a higher resolution than others, but others cost more. I'm really looking for best bang for the buck.

I'd appreciate any recommendations you have. Thanks.

If i was in your shoes, i would be looking for a used sony trv-900. They are really nice cameras, and yield great results, they should fall right into your price range and very easy to find addon parts, and small and light enough to stick a cheap tripod with.

kermie

Or, now that the GL2 is out you might find some GL1's floating around if you look hard enough.

Actually, $1200 is a bit too expensive. I've been looking more in the 700-1000 range at new cameras from sony and canon. From what I've seen, there really isn't a triple CCD camera I can afford. It's a pain because I can't scrape enough money together to get a really good DV camera. I'd settle for something like the Sony PC120 or the Canon Optura200, but I'm not sure how good the picture quality on those models is.

Kurt i know of a PAL trv-900 right here on sale for around $1000 USD, You would have to spend at least another $1000 on sounding it and putting it on a tripod, but it would be a fantastic package.

kermie

Kermie
I think he could buy a Beach Tec XLR adapter, a Sennheiser K6/ME66 and a decent manfrotto tripod for under $800. Using an unbalanced adapter with the ME66 would cut $150 off the figure. So far as a cheaper mic I don't know how well the unbalanced shotgun mics work. (Like the MKE300) Going to an unbalanced MKE300D he could buy the mic and pod for under $400.

We are talking no budget here.

Bryan,

yeah i was being generous because things always end up costing more than you think heh heh.

kermie

I'd put in some overtime wherever you work and save up the money to buy a used GL1. If $1000 is your max, an extra $300 saved up will make a big difference on a GL1 instead of buying a single chip cam.
Otherwise, if it's a definite "no", then I'd look for a used Optura Pi. From what Chris Hurd says, it's the best single chip miniDV camera ever (more or less). Price in the $500-$900 range.

Re: "then I'd look for a used Optura Pi. From what Chris Hurd says, it's the best single chip miniDV camera ever (more or less)."

I 2nd that. Here are some other good ones:

1) Canon Elura (original)
2) Sony TRV20
3) Sony TRV30
4) JVC DVL9500U
5) JVC DVL9800U
6) Panasonic PV-DV601
7) Sony TRV17
8) Sony PC9
9) Canon Optura 100MC
10) Canon Optura (original)

If the quality is substantially better, I may just work a bit harder and try to scrounge up the cash for a GL1. I've seen them going for around 1100 on ebay. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff lying around my room that I can just sell for the extra money. Thanks for all of your advice.

I like Frank's list, but I prefer new cams so I would lean toward the Sony line for that range, TRV30, 50 etc. Although the TRV50 is probably around $1200.

Any 3-chipper will do well. Most 3-chippers also have a decent set of optics ahead of the CCDs, and it takes glass to make a really good image.

On single chippers you want to make sure that you have decent access to the manual controls. Most auto settings are worth a hill of beans even on a 3-chipper!

I agree a used TRV900 would be an excellent choice (make sure its OK before you buy). Later you will need to get accessories like tripod and stuff.

OK, I'm going to buy a miniDV cam to use as a deck, since it looks like my XL1's DV ports are toast. :P

Requirements:
Cheap (under $1000cdn)
Small-ish, doesn't have to be tiny.
Analogue in/out (and of course DV in/out)
Some sort of night mode would be nice.

Suggestions?

Sony TRV18? TRV25? Canon ZR40?

Hmmm,
Depending on where you are... at my local Fry's here in Houston - They are selling a Sharp MinidDV cam for 299. You know, the one that has the big screen on the back, and no viewfinder. Perfect for an extra deck. Not an especially fancy cam though.

I just did a comparison shop for a friend, needed to buy a small cam like the one you describe. Under 800 dollars. I narrowed it down to the Canon z50 and the Sony tr27. Both had "pass through" capabilities. The Canon had a stronger optical Zoom, the Sony a larger lcd... a few other differences but those were pretty good cams for the price.

I've used many of the small Canon's going back to the original Optura and ZR. They have always performed reliably under a variety of conditions. Canon also has a better new camera warranty than Sony.

Jeff

I'd probably prefer to stick with Canon, if prices are all similar. The cheapest miniDV cam I've seen here is a Samsung, which is only about $120 less than the cheapest Canon.
Do all of the Canon's have analogue in? I want to transfer old 8mm tapes from my old cam to miniDV so I can get them on my computer.

I believe all the new models do. I know the ZR , ZR 10 didn't. The ZR 20, 30 series I don't remember. The 40's and 50's do have analog in.

Jeff

Ok, so I thought I had it all planned out. I've managed to get a new computer (dell 2.4 gigahertz, 1 gig rdram, 150 gig hd, great video card, great sound card) and feel pretty comfortable with premiere 6.5 and the next step was buying a mid-grade camcorder. So I was set on the Sony TRV-27 which is a 1 megapixel deal with 3.5 inch screen ($799) and wanted to get the four year warranty (because I'm big on not having to worry if something is going to go bad and cost me big bucks). But now, the new model is coming out in February, the TRV-33 that list price is $800, the camcorder is smaller, has a few more pixels, everything is touch panel LCD (2.5 inch) and also has 16:9 mode that isnt just bars, but it's still not the real deal obviously. So this just leads me to rethink the whole selection process. I am in the 800 dollar range, and need a good camcorder to shoot shorts and hopefully build a reel to get into a respectable film school after I graduate and get things together(around 1.5 yrs from now). I really don't care about how small the camcorder is but want the quality of DV. Should I stick with Sony? Should I wait for the new models to come out? Any feedback is welcome! Thanks guys!

(flame suit ON)
I hate Sony consumer products. With the exception of my miniDisc player, neither I, nor my immediate family have ever owned a Sony product that has not given us trouble. I will never buy another Sony consumer level product again.
(flame suit OFF)
Having said that, I have to point out that it doesn't matter which camcorder you buy. Comperable models all put out a similar picture, the real consideration is ergonomics. Buy whichever feels best in your hands. I recently hand tested all the current batch of single CCD cameras to use as a "fun" camera and DV deck, and ended up with a Canon ZR40. It's very small, but not tiny. Fits in my palm nicely, is well featured, and cost in the $500us range.

Dylan - most of the Canons are only 680k pixels, and I really wanted to have a 1 megapixel. How is the picture quality with your zr40? Is it good enough to shoot shorts with and just as a novice camcorder for an aspiring film student?

My vote if for the panasonic DV852. I just got it and the quality is fantastic. I just shot some video using it and a canon GL2 and when I brought the two together in vegas I could not tell the difference in the two (after some minor editing)...

I heard good things about the DV852 for such a long time, and I am really glad I got one before it was discontinued forever.

You can grab it for $900-1000... worth every penny.

I also strongly suggest going with a Panasonic PV-DV852. It is the best 1 CCD camcorder on the market!

So, is it worth paying the extra couple hundred bucks for this camera over a 1 megapixel sony? Will there be that big of a noticeable difference? A problem with the panasonic is the fact that it is discontinued, and the only vendors I can find it at are shady no name internet sites! Thanks for your input so far!

I would say that it is better, yes. And worth the extra money.
As for a place to buy, go to www.bhphoto.com, they are a big name, honest dealer. I got mine last week.

Even though it is being discontinued the warranty is still good.

I think the Canon Optura 200mc ( 1.33 million pixels ) has more pixels than the Panasonic CV852 ( 1/3.8", 1.02 Mega ), but when you compare the CCD size, I would believe the CV852 has the most.

Never the less it also comes down to which brand you feel more comfortable with, like Dylan.

I would also have to second Dylan's opinion of Sony. The laptop which I'm on right now is a sony and is being held together with electrial tape, because of huge cracks. Sony will not admit there is something wrong with a laptop the cracks when it gets to hot.

Even more against sony, a friend of mine had a VX1000 that you had to use an external mice because the onboard one was broken. After having it sent away three times the problem was never fixed. Now after a year of complaining to them, sony has agreed to relace the VX1000 with a PD150 and an extra $1000 CND for the trouble. So I guess it's a mixed blessing.




http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16144&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=PV-DV852&CategoryId=

http://www.canondv.com/optura200mc/s.html

(flame suit ON... again)

OK, don't cane me with bamboo poles but...
If you are serious about picture quality, why waste your money on a $1000 single chip camera, when for $200 more you can buy a used Canon GL1. 3-CCD, frame movie mode, and a host of manual control options!
If you are spending that much money, it's time to step up to the big leagues. You will be very, very happy.


Let me make another point, the people at whichever film school you choose will NOT judge your demo reel on the picture quality itself. They'll be looking at lighting, composition, editing, etc... They understand that students can't shoot everything on digiBeta.

SO my final advice... Buy whichever feels best in your hands. But if you plan on spending $1000, it shouldn't be hard to save an extra $200 to get a GL1. Plus you'll impress girls with it.

Also consider a used Optura Pi, which is supposed to be excellent, and you can find them used in the $500 range.

Oh yeah, and you if don't buy a Sony, you won't need to waste money on an extended warantee! Seriously.
Most of those aftermarket warrantees are rip-offs.

I'll second both Dylan's suggestion. The Optura Pi is the best 1 chip camcorder ever made in my opinion (now discontinued). GL1's are getting cheaper and would be a big improvement over most single chip cameras.

Jeff

The more I think about it, the more I would save for a GL1. As Jeff says, prices are dropping every day as people snap up GL2's. I'd expect to pay $1100-1300 for one.
If the money is just not going to happen, Optura Pi's are worth around $550 used. Apparently their price is staying high since they are still fairly in demand. The sign of an excellent piece of technology.

Panasonic PV-DV852's are in the $1300 range, right? Nice camera though, but again you can get a GL1 for that. Same with an Optura 200mc. They are in the $1200 range I think.

Where to buy? If you go with a new camera, the sponsors of this forum have excellent reputations, plus you will be supporting the people that support us.
If you go with a used camera, I'd look through local Buy/Sell type classified papers. If you consider buying off Ebay, make sure you read this http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/buyersguide/ebay.php

The PV-DV852 is around $1000 US at http://www.bhphotovideo.com

It also blows the doors off of the GL1, with video quality and built in sound. Sorry.

Sorry, but I agree with frank on that. Seriously.

I dont know how possible it is for you, but a simple comparison of the GL1 and the DV852 will prove the DV852 to be better quality... even with its one chip.

Like Dylan said......

Chicks dig Canon GL or XL series cameras <;~)

The DV852 can look pretty damn cool itself with a few extras... ;)

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : The PV-DV852 is around $1000 US at http://www.bhphotovideo.com

It also blows the doors off of the GL1, with video quality and built in sound. Sorry. -->>>

Frank
I must have got an unreasonably high price when I did a search earlier.
Do you have a link to a comparision site which shows it's features and picture quality head to head with a GL1? I've got nothing against Panny's, so if it is indeed a better camera, rock 'n roll!

Mind you, I like the ergonomics of the GL1 too. (These 2 cams are both lean and long...you know what I mean? Both are cheek magnets!)

Tests show that the GL1 plays back 460 lines tops, with its 250K X 3 video effective CCD pixels. On a wave form monitor with the PV-DV852, 530 horizontal lines. Both cams have good color saturation, but the GL1 has a lot more noise. Concerning audio, you've got a great mic on the PV with great controls---for a consumer cam. GL1 audio? It's okay I guess. +_+

http://www.dvfreak.com/dah.gif