I work with the DVX100 a lot and I like it pretty much. The controls are as close as they can get to a professional shoulder mount. But as far as I can see the controls on the XH-A1 are about the same (a major improvement over older Canon models like the XL1 ). The only thing that's probably still better on the Panasonic is the manual zoom, which is direct and analog, while on the Canon it seems to be indirect through a servo. However that shouldn't be too much of a problem unless you want to use that kind of boulevard-tv ultra fast zoom-in effect a lot.

You'd have to check the usability of the manual focus ring on the Canon. I tried a Canon XL1 twice and I didn't like it at all (and the lens controls look very similar). The DVX is (alongside the HVX and let aside the JVC GY-HD200 which has a "real" lens) the best to focus manually of all the Mini DV camcorders I tried.

I used a Sony PD 150 once or twice and I didn't like the handling at all (just like I didn't like the Canon XL1 handling). With the DVX - coming from shoulder mount camcorders - I just knew where everything was, without consulting the manual.

So, regarding that you want to re-sell the camcorder in a year or so you'd probably be best off with the XH-A1 because it's HD and it's not much more expensive than a DVX100. I don't know the XH-A1 but it sure looks good. I'd say try to get your hands on both camcorders for a day or so and see what you like better.

I am a high-school film student and I am looking to buy a new camera this year. I think that the Canon XH A1 is the best option so far. How much better is the A1 than an XL2? The XL2 might provide more learning experiance, but at a price in resolution and size. Any suggestions on which camera I should buy?

I can't recommend an XL2 over an XH A1 these days, but *any* camcorder that works, even at the low-end consumer $250 price point, will provide you with a valuable learning experience.

Right now I have an Optura Xi. So I'm looking for a better camera to replace it.

I'm a recent college grad and cut my teath on canon gl2s and eventually got to use my university's xl1s and xl2. That said, the xl series cams that I used in no way provided a better "learning experience." You can certainly learn how to use your basic camera functions from either cam, but the a1 will provide you with more resolution and more latitude.

I'm working in Atlanta as an SEO Manager for an advertising firm, but because of previous video experience I'm also creating a video training capability here.

I'd love to have the company acquire one of the cameras I've used before like an JVC HD-100, Sony PD 150, PD 170 or Canon GL1 GL2.
However, the budget for this project is too small for that. We're putting together the edit PC, lighting, support and camera. The current budget puts us at only $ 700 to $ 1500 for the camera.

Unfortunately we can't buy used or we could get a used PD 150, GL2 or Panasonic GS400 with 3 chips. So that won't work.

We prefer to go DV rather than HD since the videos will all be down-rezzed for network and internet distribution. But HDV is possible since we'll edit with VEGAS 7.

Under these constraints, what's the best best new video camera, either 1 chip or 3 chips? Manual f-stop control is not crucial but nice to have.

OK, on reflection I say we shouldn't go HD because of the size of video files on the hard drive. We're starting with only 350 Gig of SATA drive space. On my home video PC, the HD 100 footage ate up most of my 400 G of space.

It just makes more sense to go with DV for eventual release on the network and internet.

The current budget puts us at only $ 700 to $ 1500 for the camera.

Unfortunately we can't buy used or we could get a used PD 150, GL2 or Panasonic GS400 with 3 chips. So that won't work.

Have a look at the just released Canon HV20. I believe it's selling for around $1100 at various vendors. BTW, it's anecdotal but many folks feel that starting with an HD master and down rezzing to SD results in a better image than shooting SD to begin with. It also allows you some leeway for framing because you can keyframe pans and tilts in the NLE. If you're shooting HDV, the data rate is 25mbs CBR, which is identical to mini-DV so hard disk storage requirements are identical.

Just my opinion,

-gb-

I second what Greg sys...look at the HV20. I have an HV10, and have been able to cut with my Canon XLH1 and Sony FX1.
Bruce yarock
www.yarock.com

I've decided that I want a shoulder-mounted camera.
Not only for cosmetics, but also stability. I can't really hold a GS180 very well without shaking it a bit, so I want the next best thing! But....

I want to spend only about $600.

Why do camcorder manufacturers spend all their time cramming all these components into smaller casings, if you want to actually look professional!

I hope I'm not dreaming.

Monopod - $50

Sounds like the AG-DV7 might be your camera:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&sku=274107

You MIGHT find a used one close to your budget.

I think I'm going to get an XH A1 because they are only $250 more and they are obviously HD. Does the XH A1 shoot in SD also?

This is something I am also missing... guess I'm showing my age here, but I still long for those good old full size VHS Panasonics. Fortunately they still make a few shoulder mount miniDV camcorders.

I think I'm going to get an XH A1 because they are only $250 more and they are obviously HD. Does the XH A1 shoot in SD also?

I personally would hold off on the HD.

The HD world right now is a total mess, not to mention very expensive. By the time the smoke clears, the A1 will be history, old news, and the "A4" will be all the latest rage.

I would get an XL2, especially if you're just going to be shooting SD on the A1 anyways.


What kind of computer do you own, and what editing software are you using? Keep in mind the switch to HD is going to require a new fast computer and new editing software also.

I drool over the A1 every day. But I just don't think the right time to jump is now.

I have a MacBook Pro 15" with 2.33 core 2 duo and 2 gb of ram. I use Final Cut Studio for editing. I'l;l probably have to buy a new external HD with firewire 800 regardless of which one I get. But in the end, it comes down to price. If the XH A1 is only a tiny bit more, Ill take it. If not, Ill get the XL2.

"The HD world right now is a total mess, not to mention very expensive."

I would say that is more than a bit of an exaggeration. Computers that can edit HDV smoothly have been available for two years (>2GHz dual core). No, it wasn't smooth two years ago, but software improvements make those machines work nicely. Unless you have an outdated computer, HDV is not out of the question. It only cost me $350 to get Vegas 7, so that really isn't a stumbling block. I did have an outdated machine, so I had to upgrade. Not everyone will require this expense. Even so, I upgraded for less than $2000, so a total of $6000 to go from nowhere to HD isn't so bad.

There is also no reason to shoot on SD if you don't already have a quality SD rig. Shooting on HDV and down-converting often gives a better SD product and may keep your projects relevant for years to come.

There is no smoke and ruins in the HD world. The second generation of cameras has arrived and the first generation is still good. The distribution formats exist for about $600 and anyone that really wants/needs it can pay the same now as many videographers paid to go from VHS to DVD.

You don't need to wait for every single household in the world to go to HD before you upgrade. The benefits to HDV were present from day one.

On the other hand, if you already have a nice SD rig, you don't need to feel pressure to spend money. If your customers/audience is only using SD, you can put off the expenditure.

I'm going to back up what Chris Hurd said with a caveat. Any camera, with manual controls, will provide an excellent learning experience. Starting from zero, the expense of HD vs. SD isn't very great considering the increase in quality so it may be advantageous to start there (budget permitting). If you don't have the budget, a decent used DV camera and any old computer with a clean OS install will be a great learning tool.

The HD world right now is a total mess, not to mention very expensive. By the time the smoke clears, the A1 will be history, old news, and the "A4" will be all the latest rage.

That advice may make sense for someone who already has a good DV camera and isn't ready to spring $3-4K for an upgrade, but there's little reason to buy a DV-only camera any more. Get the XL-A1.

I think that sums it up better. Instead of all the blabbity-blah in my previous post; the advice repeated many times around here has been to buy what is best for you now. Technology keeps changing and you should change when it is beneficial for you.

On the other hand, don't get stuck in a hardware trap. You are the most important factor in determining the quality of your video. Although I generally think it is time for HD, there are some great DV cameras out there that are getting quite affordable that you can cut your teeth on. A cautious buy of a used model is also an option.

Being a musician, I don't see an issue in getting the best musical instrument you can afford. High school students regularly purchase expensive instruments because quality translates into better overall musicianship. Likewise, if you are frustarated by the available option on your current cam, then upgrade to the XH A1.

However, truly gifted musicians can play anything and be great. Charlie Parker (jazz legand) played a different sax all the time because he pawned them off for his addiction. But he always maintained that signature Charlie Parker sound. Likewise, if you give a great film maker any camcorder, you will get a great story. The tool isn't as important as the process of creating the art.

If you are a techno-junkie and want the latest gear, get the XH A1. It has lot's of features that will make a person a more knowledgable camera operator.

It comes down to wants and needs.
Want: This cam works but a better cam would work great.
Need: This cam fails as a tool.

Only you know where you're at on making this judgment call. I'm not. I just bought an XH A1 and an HV20 along with a decent tripod to shoot a ballet performance (Actually, I've been waiting for the HD dust to settle for a couple years. The XH A1 was the right cam for me.) When the performers see the finished DVD will they notice the improved quality over the PD150 I would have used? Only if they had seen video from both cams side by side, otherwise probably not.

I would go for the XH A1.
I own an XL1s and I think it's a terrific camera, but an XHA1 should be able to give you a better picture then an XL2, and you have as much manual control as you have on an XL camera, it's only different, the ergonomics are different.

I love the controls on an XL camera, everything has its own button, but the XH A1 is just a tooo good bang for the buck.
You can shoot SD now and later you don't have to upgrade to a new HDV camera.

Hopefully I can get it next year if I get enough money.

Hi Mel,

If you want to keep your GS180, why not either buy a shoulder mount unit to mount it on, or build one yourself ??

I've made my own shoulder mount unit to use with any of my 4 small Sony D8/MiniDV Cams.

The Mono-Pod mentioned, in my experience, will work for some applications, but the shoulder-mount is better suited for others.

Eirvin, I've still got one of the Panasonic S-VHS Shoulder Cam units that still works like new, at age 18 yrs.

Harold

my 2cents please...........

After all my reading, searching and questions I have come to the conclusion that..............BUY WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD!

I think someone here told me that too!lol

It's hard to know what you can afford, even if you have an exact figure on your bank statement. There are always so many accessories that can make a difference that it can be hard to know how much of your budget should be the camera. If you already have a good set of sticks and you have enough left over for a good case and at least one extra big battery, you can probably blow the rest of your budget on the camera. Of course, there are filters and lighting to think about, but that's a different story.

The great thing about even a low-end professional camera is that it retains some value. I doubt an XL2 will have quite the same resale value in five years as the XH-A1. It's already an older model and SD will start to fade some day.

"Hopefully I can get it next year if I get enough money."

In that case, I think you might want to listen to Chris Hurd and get a nice little consumer camera now so you can at least start shooting something. By next year, the XH-A1 may not be the best option so it is premature to be making a decision now.

In that case, I think you might want to listen to Chris Hurd and get a nice little consumer camera now so you can at least start shooting something. By next year, the XH-A1 may not be the best option so it is premature to be making a decision now.

I'm going to get it around February 2008. But I already have an Optura Xi, I just am going to get a lot better camera that I can keep for four years and then upgrade again before I go to college.

But I already have an Optura Xi, I just am going to get a lot better camera that I can keep for four years and then upgrade again before I go to college.

Based on this review:

http://www.videomaker.com/article/10057/

I'd say that the Optura Xi is already a perfect camcorder for cutting your teeth on.....(save the loading from the bottom bit).

It's hard to say right now what's going to be a good choice in Feb. 2008 -- a lot can happen between now and then. The Optura Xi is an excellent little camcorder and it should serve very well for you between now and then. No real need to change in my opinion, and you can wait until Dec. before thinking hard about a Feb. purchase. It's way too soon right now. Shoot with what you've got -- it's not holding you back from making great images today.

Hello.

Hoping for some help with camera recommendations.

Purpose: Film a documentary for mass distribution on DVD. Shots are mostly outdoor interviews w/ about 15%-20% of athletic motion.

Would like recommendations on 2 price ranges.
1) less than $2500
2) $2500 - $4000

Essentially I am looking for an idea of if this can be done well with a lower priced camera and if so, which one. Sound quality is also a major concern.

Thanks for any help & advice.

One important question is whether you want to shoot in 4:3 or 16:9...

1) Sony PD-170 for 4:3
2) Sony V1 (slightly over budget) or Canon A1 for 16:9

1 had better low-light capabilities, 2 is HDV, but can be down converted to SD for DVD purposes.

Have a look also at the Sony HDR-FX7

Thanks for the help so far.

As for 4:3 vs 16:9, that does not make that much of a difference in this purchase.

I prefer 16:9 but 4:3 could work for this project and the majority of my projects.

My biggest concerns would be picture & audio quality. I'm sure those are everyone's main conerns though! :)

what framerate do you want to shoot? Since your distribution is in SD, you may consider getting an SD camera, even if it's "service life" may seem shorter than an HD camera. Truth is, the current HD cameras will be quite obsolete by the time people start moving to Hd-DVD or Bluray en masse.

For outdoor interviews and action? Why not try a DVX-100? You can pick them up used VERY reasonably and still have plenty of cash for additional sound equipment/a decent tripod. Small, light, battery efficient, very usable audio, easy manual operation, flexible framerates. The other thing to consider too would be a used XL-1s or XL-2 with the Canon manual lens. People are whosale dumping SD gear right now, so you can certainly find some great deals on equipment that will knock your socks off for your purposes. If you're doing 60i, you may even be able to find a betacam or DVCAM with lens for less than a prosumer HDV camera.

Remember that your final product is DVD, and while it could be argued all day long the merits of shooting HD and downconverting, the workflow of SD for SD delivery is easy and proven in all current NLE's.

I like Jaron’s thinking about staying SD. I’m planning to make straight to video movies. As I prepare to purchase a camera (I’ve been in love the XL2 for years), I keep asking myself why shoot HD? Yeah, it sounds cool, looks great and sounds impressive to announce at parties but do I really need to be shooting HD?

My current Mac (with FCP) is geared for SD. It can handle SD with no problems. With HD I’ll probably have to upgrade my computer even further (more RAM, bigger hard drives, maybe even a new graphics card). If I stay with SD, I can use all that extra money to buy more lights, a better tripod and a better boom mic and so on. And while everyone is rushing to HD, keep in mind, many impressive projects have been shot in SD. Most of the time, it’s not the tool but the talent. I can have the world’s most high tech camera and Steven Spielberg will take an 8mm camera and still make a better movie than me.

So again, as I prepare to buy my first camera, I keep asking myself why shoot HD or even bother with an HD camera? Lord knows my target audience (urban America) don’t have HD televisions or HD players and won't for years to come.

So why should I shoot HD?????

I think you have things in the right perspective. Good lighting will make a far better picture than resolution alone. A good tripod will make smoother moves than a cheap tripod with a lot of resolution. And you remembered something I totally blanked on - the upgrade to HD computing ain't exactly cheap, esp. with HDV.

Right now, on broadcast TV there isn't a ton of true HD programming. There's a lot of uprezzed digibeta, etc... and fewer HD channels than content. And even still - content rules. And HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray? I enjoy my gadgets as much as the next guy, but even I'm sitting on the sidelines of this. I'll keep buying my SD DVD's until I know that the machine I buy won't be totally mothballed before I can get discs for it.

Get a second hand SD camera and milk everything you can out of it. It'll probably last you 2-3 years, at which point the camera will probably die, and HD cameras will be in a generation where the kinks are worked out. If you've always loved the XL-2, there are a few for sale on the classifieds here, a couple with the manual lenses. Excellent tools, some of the best bang for your buck available in SD, especially at the prices people are trying to get rid of em!

Thanks to everyone that responded.

What I am getting from all of this is that it is probably more important to surround my camera with good gear (lights, microphone, tripod, etc.) than the exact camcorder model.

I definitely will not need HD and will avoid that route.

Thanks again. If anyone still wants to weigh in on a certain camera model, I'd love to hear it but my budget will definitely be under $2500.

Hello

I have the FX1 but want a small handheld for carrying around as most know the FX1 is pretty big for everyday use

Want another HD camera that is cheaper then the FX1 and will give the same sharp HD pictures as the FX1 does so I can match them in when editing

Make doesn’t really matter as long as it’s top quality HD pictures and can be mixed in with my FX1 footage on the timeline

Something that also records onto tape rather then built in hard drive

Thank you for the help

Guess that would be the Canon HV20 then. Ticks all the boxes, has the cutest little "ding" when you power it up and seconds as a dinky paperweight when not in use to boot.

Cheers,


Chris

I have FX1, and agree that the Hv20 is a great companion camera for it. Actually will be able to match up with FX1 if you handle things right, and shoot both in 60i. Be forewarned, you will find yourself picking the HV20 up more and more, and the FX1 less.... It really has stunning image capability.

I have about £2000 ($4000) to spend on a new/used camera and would really appreciate some input from forum members.

I currently have a Canon XM2 (GL2) which is excellent and will be kept as a backup/second camera, however I do need something a little more professional.

My main requirements are:

- Will be used mainly for interview/documentary work
- Prefer interchangeable lenses
- Need progressive option as most work is to be used on the web
- Shoulder mounted option is required
- HD is not essential at this stage

I was really aiming to get a JVC GY-HD110 but this is currently out of my price range. I have been considering second hand including...

Panasonic AG-DVC200E - http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=used_panasonic_ag-dvc200e

JVC DV500 - http://www.bblist.co.uk/database/index.cgi?page=details;ref=20140;width=;category=Video%20Cameras;batch=2;tender=All;item=;result=20; detail=;daysnew=

Panasonic AJ-D400E - http://www.bblist.co.uk/database/index.cgi?page=details;ref=17704;width=;category=Video%20Cameras;batch=3;tender=All;item=;result=20; detail=;daysnew=

Sony DSR-300PK - http://www.proav.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=27_232&products_id=2786&osCsid=c8c8d600c63428d33daaa3b6aa813d5e

I would appreciate any feedback on my suggestions and maybe some other alternatives if you can. If anybody knows any other good UK used equipment web sites please post them.

Failing that I will keep saving for the 110...

Many thanks

Sony DSR-250P - http://www.mandy.com/1/class3.cfm?v=22279753

Panasonic AG DVC-200 - http://www.mandy.com/1/class3.cfm?v=22140625

Sorry I guess I have posted a much asked question.

Anyway I think I have now narrowed it down to either the Panasonic AG-DVC200E or the JVC DV500. I believe the 1/2" chips have to be worth it for a little extra DOF.

I realise that neither of these cameras are progressive. Does anyone have any comments on de-interlacing vs progressive for the web?

Of course if anyone has any alternative cameras that I might consider I am very interested.

Alex

There are some smart deinterlacers out there, that project movement and compensate for that. You say you will be working for the web, so I assume you will resize your video to something like 360x240 - at that resolution you will be perfectly fine no matter what you used for filming. So concentrate on your main format and make sure the camera suits your needs for that.

Hi Ervin,

Thanks for your response.

I am now down to choosing between:


New @ £3K - JVC GYHD110 (which I don't actually have the money for)

Pro's - New, full warranty, extra features, has battery

Con's - 1/3" chip, more expensive, will lose value quicker?, no tripod plate


Used @ £2k - Panasonic AGDVC200 (which I can afford - considering http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=used_panasonic_ag-dvc200e)

Pro's - 1/2" chips, comes with bag , rain cover, tripod plate, should hold value better than new item?

Con's - doesn't come with batteries, only get 90 day warranty, not as upto date as JVC, second hand

now I am not sure which way to go...

Alex

Hi,
I wonder if anyone can help with advice on a camera that I can use to mount on the dash of a small aircraft to take vision of passengers reaction while taking a joy flight. I have recently bought a triple chip Panasonic which records on DVD but it keeps stopping. The only thing I can think of is because of the vibration. Any ideas? It is great except for the stopping. As a budget i didnt want to spend much more than $1000.

You might consider the Sony DCR-HC96. It is a MiniDV and has a 1/3 inch chip so the low light performance is not bad. It also had a RGB primary colour filter so in decent light the picture is pretty good. It is reasonably compact as well. You can also purchase a Sony highgrade wideangle lens for it.

It also takes 3.3 megapixel images.

It is not HD though and with your budget that is probably something you could consider.

You might consider the Sony DCR-HC96. It is a MiniDV and has a 1/3 inch chip so the low light performance is not bad. It also had a RGB primary colour filter so in decent light the picture is pretty good. It is reasonably compact as well. You can also purchase a Sony highgrade wideangle lens for it.

It also takes 3.3 megapixel images.

It is not HD though and with your budget that is probably something you could consider.

Thanks Curt,
I need the camera to take 16.9 and SD is fine as it has to match other SD footage for cutaways etc. Have you had any experience with cameras recording on disc. It keeps shutting itself off and i feel the vibration must be doing it. Also the $1000 I mention is A$ not US.

The only experience I have had with cameras that record on mini DVDs is editing which was a pain both in getting the footage onto my machine and editing as well (I edit on Sony Vegas).

I have a DCR90 and it has a wide screen option with the press of a button. I assume the newer DCR96 has the same feature. Whether it is 'true 16:9' I will leave for others to answer.

Hey Guys,

Just after some opinions. A whole bunch of old broadcast cameras (betacam SP, DVcam) have popped up on ebay (Australian version) recently, at very competitive prices to the new prosumer HDV cameras.

I've also notice that on the program for a local film festival (St. Kilda Film Festival) the majority of the films have been shot on Betacam SP - and from what I can see they look considerably more professional and film-like than most of what I've seen from HDV cameras. Is that simply the result of larger 1/2" and 2/3" sensors regardless of the resolution?

I understand the old-tech/new-tech argument. It's just that to my eye, the old pro cameras seem to produce more professional looking images than the new prosumer cameras (please correct me if I'm wrong on this, the best camera I've been able to work with thus far is a Canon XL1s).

Which choice is going to allow me to produce the most professional looking short films? (that's pretty much what I'm after)