one disadvantage the gy-dv5000 have compare to xl2 when working on indie production, you can't use it in alot of places such as shopping complexes, theme park... without getting into trouble with the authorities:o(

ed

<<<-- Originally posted by Ed Liew : one disadvantage the gy-dv5000 have compare to xl2 when working on indie production, you can't use it in alot of places such as shopping complexes, theme park... without getting into trouble with the authorities:o(

ed -->>>

If you are doing that, the DVX100 is even a better choice, as the XL2 will still draw serious attention. Of course, shooting in those places is questionably legal at best anyway.

<< whether a standard DV tape actually has better quality than miniDV >>

You mean , whether a full-size DV tape actually has better quality than miniDV. And the answer is no. The only difference is the size of the cassette shell. Mini DV is not a format -- it's just the size of the cassette -- the same tape load goes into the full size cassettes as well. The format is still DV.

If you are going to transfer the footage to film I would urge you
to find the transfer facility first. Talk them through everything and
they will help you with the best camera for your shoot and what
mode to shoot in. From what I hear the facilities are able to better
work with certain type of footage than others etc.

If you get a PAL camera you cannot shoot in 24p, since those
camera's do not have that option (in response to your "Both 24
fps a MUST"). It is either PAL or 24p, not both. Ofcourse, most
PAL footage that is transferred to film is simply interpreted as
24p footage instead of 25p and the audio is stretched by 4% to
match the now sped up motion (which you will not see).

Please stop cross-posting Gladys. I've merged your two PAL
threads together and moved them to our Open DV Discussion
(general) forum where it belongs.

DVX with warm colours?? first ive heard of that one.. moreso cool colours as the CCD has been specifically designed to crush reds as red is the Bane of DV..

persoanlly i think the DVX100 kicks ass for this.. the whole look is just so damn right..

The XL2 requires intricate configurations, and a decent wide lense to really be abel to take advantage of it..

however if your shooting digital to specifically go to film, i woudl recommend teh Z1.. the higher rez, and larger frame size of HDV will reproduce a nicer, cleaner filmic transfer.

the PD1 (JVC) is also very suitable for filmout.. shoots 25p, true 16:9 and has incredible res.

I THINK MY QUESTION WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING Let me try again......

I want to shoot my project with the XL2 PAL on 16:9 I have two questions:


1) Is it possible to convert 16:9 to 3:4 for DVD distribution?
Will the movie loose resolution. How much? Is it better to shoot 3:4 then even though I want to go to Film initially but then I want to go into DVD rental market.


2) PAL or NTSC I know the dv film LAB transfer in TEXAS has the software to go from PAL to NTSC conversion and that it does not cause any effect on quality or resolution. BUT the 20% that everyone talks about that you gain by shooting PAL when compared to NTSC is always done at 25fps to 30fps. I guess because 24fps is fairly new it is never expalined if 25fps and 24fps are compatable or how different are the resolution gap betwwen both.


My question is if we compare 24fps NTSC and 25fps PAL is there still a 20% gain in reslolution?


Thanks
Gladys

Graham Jones Senior THANKS FOR THE TIP ON THE CAMERA!!!!!!!!!!!! I always get excited when there's a new possibility.

Are there other cameras DV that are true 16:9? out there?

I though the only one was the XL2

Thanks

Sure! I only saw our footage on a progressive 16:9 monitor last week. The guys in the post house thought it looked like HD. It doesn't - but it doesn't look like SD either. The res is very surprising, possibly because it captures HD and downconverts, but also it's the progressive quality. No interline blur. When we get our 60 sec 35mm test back I will post again.

> possible to convert 16:9 to 3:4 for DVD distribution?
> Will the movie loose resolution. How much? Is it better to
> shoot 3:4 then even though I want to go to Film initially but
> then I want to go into DVD rental market.

You can make 16:9 anamorphic DVDs, very similar to the way DV handles 16:9. If you want you can crop for 4:3 and in that case the answer is yes, you will lose some resolution. You can even program pan and scan so that DVD players move around a window in the frame when outputting to 4:3. At least so I have learned. But I have never done such a thing. I have only tested 16:9 letterboxed DVD from 16:9 PDX10 material. Looked great.

If for no other reason, go for PAL and the speed change so when you uprezz to HD in the future or transfer to film you will get the added resolution of PAL over NTSC.

Have you considered HDV? If you deinterlace HDV you should also get no interlace effects. And the higher resolution will help future-proof your material.

My good buddy is a fantastic guy with a lot of talent. He is always on the phone on a well known radio show in NYC here. He has appeared on the show in person too. He has a lot of ambition. He does comedy. He had a rap song out well before Eminem was a "White rapper". He is a jack of all trades. People look at him in awe when he constantly lives up to his promises of bringing another celebrity around the neighborhood. In between, he drives a cab, owned a bagle store and what ever else to pay the bills. Recently he went to Vegas and met with the producers of some of the well know reality DVD's that go around. I won't name them. They use the VX2100. They gave him money towards making a movie. It could be about anything but they actually love his background. They want it to be about who he is. He has about 150 hours of his past life in DV from a Canon zr10 and high 8 from a Sony. He also has various footage that was donated to him from several shows that he has been on. One recent show featured a rapper that has since died. It was supposed to be a weekly show on the big music video channel we all know. The show was canceled of course. He has the un-aired footage of him. Since I have been a friend over the years, and the only one who has shown him what I have learned so far, he came to me to partner up with him. I have Sony Vegas and Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5. However, I know squat about the programs. I have been too busy to learn. I own a Canon Optura 300. Over the last six months, I have taken about 30 hours of family video and transfered it to DV on the computer I built. I have a decent rig. It has two WD Raptors in 74Gb. One 250Gb WD 7200 rpm SATA hard drive too. It is an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ s939. I have 1gb of Cas2 gamers ram. The video card is one under tops for gaming (not a matrox). For video rendering I have had no dropped frame rates. I never defragged in the 9 months since I had the machine and it stills renders video fast. I am basically new at this. I teach HS in Brooklyn NY. I want to help my buddy as best as I can. I hope to get a lot advice from anyone who wants to help with this project. BTW, I went to his house last night. When I walked in, he had a brand new Sony VX2100 sitting on a remote control tripod. He had about 2000 bucks in accesories laying beside it. My eyebrows went straight up. We both sat there and stared at it until I realized that we were both too scared to touch the camera. He said he threw out the box right away. I save boxes. When I asked why, he said, "I gotta stay positive. This movie will be made with this camera." This guy has talent and cajones. I read the manual for the vx2100 all day today. I would appreciate any advice from those who have used the camera before. I never used zebra striping before. It has built in ND filters too. So, does this idiot have any questions? Sure I do. Day two here ;) A few I could think of for now are;

1) What is your opinion on trying to edit on a PC. I never got past the artifacts that I get on the PC when rendering to a final DVD format. The motion artifacts. I know about DVD being lossy but I see better results from the work of others. Is a MAC needed in this business? I have had mixed opinions. Some one told me that I need Canopus and some time to play with settings. Man, I would need two lives for that. I have Canopus and I can't seem to get rid of the artifacting when the cam pans fast.

2) I'll ask about other's success in mixing different video cam's footage into one project. I know that the topic has been discussed before on this site.

3) My buddy told me that the guys who edited the movies in the reality DVD scene that he has hooked up with offered him to help me out. Yet, I still want advice from those who know anything about this camera.

Anyway, thanks for reading all of this if you did. I'll be back!

Michael,
You might want to post your questions in its own thread as it doesn't quiet exactly pertain to this thread. In any case, I think a moderator here will likely split it off into its own thread.

My crack at your questions:
1- Ideas are the #1 thing. Have a good idea of what you want to do and the story you want to tell. It might change when you start shooting, but if you don't have a good idea going in then you might lack focus.

2- You still need to pay a little attention to the technical aspects to make sure your footage is good. The first thing you should work on is keeping the camera steady. If you pay attention to this, it should be fine. Don't do the family video thing and run around with the camera and zoom in and out everywhere.

3- The next thing you should work on is audio. The goal is usually to pickup dialogue that is easily understandable and not muddied by echo/reverb or high background noise.

You need to get an external microphone and some support accessories for it. For run and gun stuff, it's likely that you'll have to settle with mounting the microphone on the camera unless you have a sound guy with a boom. The microphone on the camera is the worst place to put the microphone and will give you the worst sound. If you can use a handheld mic, wireless lav on the interviewee, or boom mic you will get better sound. But this may not always be practical, so you'll need to mount the microphone on the camera. You'll need a shotgun (or hypercardioid) microphone, windscreen, and shockmount.

Check the "now hear this"/audio forum here for equipment recommendations, as you will pull up lots of information if you search through the forum.

To learn more about getting good audio, I recommend you get Jay Rose's book "Great Sound for Digital Video" (see dplay.com for information on how to get it for $30). Apparently Ty Ford's book is good too, but I haven't read it so I can't say. There are also good resources on the internet.

4- The next most important thing IMO is to learn how to use your camera right. The BBC online training site has some great information on how they use the VX2000.
http://www.bbctraining.com/onlineCourse.asp?tID=5160&cat=2781

Learn how to get proper exposure, how to get proper focus, how to shoot things right so life is easier in post (i.e. avoiding timecode breaks).

5- If you are interviewing people, there are certain ways to interview people to get interviews. Ask open-ended questions instead of yes/no questions so you don't get one-word responses. Make the interviewee comfortable so they're more likely to open up to you. Start off with easy questions, try to minimize distractions, don't scare them with your gear (boom mic, camera in their face can be intimidating). People and interpersonal skills also really help, although you may not learn too much by reading about them. One way you might be able to get better at them would be to watch people and figure out what is going through their minds, try to see things from their point of view.

---

Those are the most important things in my opinion.

Editing: The button pushing/technical side of editing makes very little difference on your final product. You still need to know how to push those buttons though.

Do you need a Mac? No. PC/Premiere and PC/Vegas are very good tools for editing. They give the same quality as other systems more or less. Both are fairly stable and you can be quite productive with either as long as you figure out how to use them. There are various resources for learning how to use the programs... try the editing/post production forums here. I personally prefer Vegas, but that program may not make sense to you (you'll have to relearn things if you are used to Premiere or Final Cut).

DVD: Try posting in the appropriate post production forum here with information on what program you are using to make your DVD, and how long your video is. You just need to increase the bitrate you're using to encode.


2) I'll ask about other's success in mixing different video cam's footage into one project. I know that the topic has been discussed before on this site.

If there are consumer cameras involved, you should likely try to match the footage as the consumer stuff will stand out. You can see an example of what Vegas can do at my website:
http://www.glennchan.info/matching/matching.htm
(One camera is prosumer/pro 3CCD camera like the VX2100, the other consumer.)

Premiere Pro can only do the same level of color correction with 3rd party stuff (color finesse plug-in, or automatic duck to move your project into high-end avid/combustion/after effects).

If the ideas in your video are good and there's money involved, you can get the special editing stuff done by someone else (i.e. color correction, audio post, DVD authoring). In this case, using Premiere Pro can be a good idea as you can finish off Premiere projects on higher end systems (Automatic Duck into another system for color correction, OMF export for Pro Tools or equivalent for audio post).

As Mark writes, spend the money on lights. You can buy a little $1000 camera, $500 on lights for better results and the rest for a wireless microphone system.

I have a VX2000, and it is very soft wide open.
You will need to shoot it at f/4 for sharpness.

Thanks for the immediate advice. I'm going to spend today researching all that you have mentioned in your post.

Thank you guys!!!!!

I just checked on the JVC GR PD1 and found out that it's half the price of the XL2 and it's a true 16:9 found some footage on line at
http://www.sanjinjukic.com/index_formentera1.html is aTANGO movie shot in Paris. small clip but it looks good. The only thing I found to be areal set back is loss of color due to it being ONLY a ONE chip cam however the resolution is Great!!!!!! becasue is a HDV cam.

Director Peter Jackson used the JVC GR-PD1 for shooting his version of King Kong blockbuster.

There are many reason for that option he said:

1. Multi-Format Recording and Playback: MPEG-2 PAL Progressive (16:9 625/50p 625/25p,
4:3 625/50p), DV PAL Interlace (4:3, 625/50i).

2. Component (Y/Pb/Pr), Y/C, Composite, i.LINK interfaces.

3. Hi-Def F1.8-F1.9 Optically Stabilised Zoom Lens.

4. 1/3-inch 1.18 Megapixel Progressive Scan 16:9 CCD with Hybrid
Complementary-Primary Digital Filter.

5. Native resolution of the only one CCD is 1280x659 pixels with a
widescreen 16:9 progressive scan.

6. MPEG-2 Recording on MiniDV Cassette.

7. The camera captures video at a resolution of 1280 x 659 pixels, with 25 progressively
scanned frames per second. The output/capture picture size starts with 1024x576 pixels in
m2t file (MPEG-TS). That size can be easy up convert to the smaller HD scan line count with
the higher resolution progressive scan of 1280x720 pixels in 10 bit uncompressed file with
very little, if any, quality loss.

8. It means that with JVC GR-PD1 you get the best picture quality at 720p25 for
that camera price below Euro € 2000.

9. If you would work on Apple Macintosh with Final Cut Pro HD you do not need any
additional HDV software to buy. All other HDV applications can be found online and
they are free of charge. Also Apple at Macworld SF 2005 released native HDV support in
Final Cut Express HD and iMovie.

10. Free helper apps on Mac are Apple DVHSCap , MPEG Streamclip, DiVA and VLC Player.

11. EDITING ON MAC

Variant 1: Go on Apple site, find iMovie HD, read and order iLife suite where you can get
iMovie HD. Than follow iMovie HD worklflow.

Variant 2: Go on Apple site, find Final Cut Express HD, read about HDV workflow and
order FCE HD.

Variant 3: My workflow at "Free Capture, Preview, Encoding with Mac"



JVC GR-PD1 (625p)

If you are a freak of shooting a low budget FILM on VIDEO or like somebody called "digital intermediate" and if you would like to achieve 24fps HD FILM-STYLE video with the highest picture quality from the cheapest native 16:9 Wide Screen Extended Definition Progressive Scan Digital Video Camera on the market that costs less than Euro € 2500 you should probably try out JVC GR-PD1.

I hope this helps someone with a very very ultra low BUDGET as for me I have finally decided TODAY. I will go with the Canon XL2 E PAL. Finally after 6 months of thinking an researching and analysis I finally reached a decision. It's going to be a challenge with the lenses and focus problems of the 20X but I am hopefull that in the end I will have a good enough Product to market.

This are my personal, personal rates for cameras good enough to transfer to 35mm Film if shot with a good DP and Story.

Best: Canon XL2 E PAL
2nd: DVX 100A PAL
3rd: JVC GR PD1
4th: Sony PD 170 or 150 PAL

A thousand THANKS again. No more posting required on this subject for me I'm done......

I saw a photo of Jackson on the roof of a building, maybe empire state, with the PD1 but just assumed he was on a recy..

I was thinking Sony when is said HDV. The JVC camera you mention is a single-sensor cam and at that size, it has problems with noise, especially chroma noise, unless you have a lot of light are your disposal, which in the case of budget production is not usually the case. Sensitivity of the Sony FX1/Z1 is not as good as the PD170 but much better than the JVC.

You DO NOT (!) need a 4:3 DVD if you have 16:9 source material
(unless you do not want the black bars on a 4:3 TV).

DVD players can automatically letterbox 16:9 footage for display
on a 4:3 TV if these players are set up correctly.

All those commercial Hollywood DVD's are 16:9 anamorphic. If you
told your DVD player you have a 16:9 TV attached it will send the
signal as is. If you told it there is a 4:3 TV attached it will first
squeeze the footage down and then add the black bars.

So stick with a 16:9 DVD for 16:9 footage.

Also:

" from PAL to NTSC conversion and that it does not cause any effect on quality or resolution "

Is in my opinion totally incorrect. You will always loose some
quality and you will definitely loose resolution!

I have compared and try the VX2100 with a DVC80, and it really sucks at low light... also in the DVC80 you have much more manual controls than the sony.


I am getting a DVC60 as a companion to my DVC80,... (crap it isnt sold anymore... )


I have tested it.. and it look like a solid choice.

I find it hard to believe there isn't a shop in California that would have any or ALL of these cameras in stock for him to compare. You know Hollywood is out there and that's where most of the film/video stuff happens. New York is just a big port and is the logical place to have a big warehouse for goods that are being imported. It would cost almost as much to fly to NY and stay for a few days to look at cameras as it would to just buy the camera and throw it away if you didn't like it. (airfare, hotels, food, transportation etc.)

I didn't know he was in CA...try Promax or Samy's in L.A.

Or our sponsor, Express Video Supply (http://www.evsonline.com) in Glendale. Tell Rush and Cody hello for me,

Ok - the way I see it , everyone who's keeping up with the market knows no one is buying a camera before nab - but , that aside , the way it's rounding up is :
1) a sony pal model dcr- hc90 ( 16:9 ,shoots 25p and is tiny & cheap ) - 9 bills
2) a sony dsr-pdx10 ( great 16:9, great audio , sony pro div ) 16 bills
3) a dvx ( still, I'd like one even after 2 years ! ) about 30 bills
4 ) an fx1 ( the camera I'd buy if I had any sense and didn't want to spend another 17 bills more ) - about 32 bills
5) a Z1 - the camera of the moment- 49 bills
6) the future is unknown - but I could easily wait until NAB , but I don't think my budget could expand past a Z1 so why think about the pany and jvc cameras ! ( of course they could come in around 50 bills but I doubt it )

so , I think the toss up is the dvx or the fx1 - only about 2 bills difference . Any opinions ?
( all pricing based on a good online seller and relative to each other )
thanks for your comments - Kurth

I've pondered this too, and although it costs more I think the z1 would be my choice. The PAL and NTSC are reason enough for me, even if I never shoot HDV. Not ready to take the plunge just yet though.

I already have a PDX-10 and have been very happy with it for two years. I paid $2,200, but at $1,600 it's quite a deal. It has its quirks, but once you get used to them it can deliver pretty impressive 16:9.

Also consider that the FX1 and Z1 might come down in price a bit after NAB in response to whatever new models are introduced.

Boyd - that's why the pdx10 is on the list. Of course if I was wealthy , I'd like one of each , please. And yes , the Z1 is the camera of the moment and I'd like to hear good justifications for going for it over the fx1. I've been reading the posts and I like what I read about cf30. If one stays in one world and doesn't need xlrs' , I think the fx1 , at about 1700 less is a bargain. What do you think about just using a mini-plug shotgun like the sennheiser mke 300 ? I don't like the idea of the added buld from a beachtek. I was rather disappointed that sony didn't make that hotshoe on the fx intelligent but it was probably intelligent of them because I could have used the adapter with my pd100 to give me xlr. then there's the subject of the dvx. I've found it online from decent vendors , with rebate and MB editors , for as little as 26 bills. And there is something to be said for the idea resolution isn't everything. But the problem is if one buys now and doesn't buy into HDV , then one could have regrets in a year when moneys' short and another year must be calendared before another purchase. I've also read a post by Nattress on another forum that his tests using filmeffects 2 on fx1 footage is 16mm quality. Now Mr. Nattress is one of those of those posters that always gets my attention so , with FE2 on 60i material for 24p and cf30 mode for staying digital, is that enough ? Yes I know the ability to shoot 50i cf25 is lost unless using a pal model or the z1 , but is that worth $1700 ? thanks for reading - Kurth

I agree, the FX-1 is a great value. Like their other cameras though, they've crippled the firmware. Things which sound like nice upgrades on the Z1 (off the top of my head)

PAL/NTSC
XLR's
Split channel level controls
underscanning viewfinder/LCD
customizable peaking colors
ability to turn off all the screen overlays (this REALLY bugs me on the PDX-10)

Yeah the DVX looks great too, especially if you can get it that cheap. Just wish it was native widescreen. I suppose you also have to consider the XL2 if you're willing to spend $5,000...

thanks Boyd - you always make good points that require further thinking- k

Wait a few weeks. Prices could come down. There could be a new DVX with 16.9 native. It may become obvious why HDV is at risk of being an orphan format.

Sure, anything could happen and I agree that this is a bad window to make any video related purchases (I want to upgrade to a newer version of FCP but am putting that off until NAB).

However, Panasonic's Jan Crittenden has categorically denied that there will be a major upgrade to the DVX-100a in several posts here. She has stated however that the DVX-100b is coming and the only significant change will be compliance with some Euro regulations about toxic materials using in consumer products.

But I guess we'll just have to wait a few weeks to see how it plays out.

Kurth,


In spite of my initial enthusiasm for an HDV camera, I ended up buying a PDX10 recently. And I think it will always be an excellent B camera when I go into HDV later on.

The points Boyd raises are probably the most important to get as a plus in the Z1, and I would probably add black level adjustment to it.

But I don't think the XLR inputs are that important. I have been an external preamp defender for a long time in these forums, and I continue to be even after my PDX10 purchase.

You can use the mini-plug input on the FX1 if you get a proper cable that you should leave forever plugged in. The connector can be screwed in, so it won't suffer the worst 1/8" plug malady that is wiggling when plugged in. If you screw/unscrew it every time you use it, the threads and internal springs will wear out.

Disregard the MKE300 mic, as it's really a toy mike. Get a proper hypercardioid mic with XLR output placed on a proper suspension that is a bit away from the camera. I use the Bracket A, but you can get any other. That and the elastic suspension will allow you some pointing of the mic and cut some camera or handling noises.

A note though: the camera is the worst place for your mic to be in. The mic should be closer to your subject and placed at the right angle, which is usually 45 degrees from above. For that you will need a mic stand or a mic person. If you are alone and interviewing, try to get your mic closer to your subject, even if you have to place it on a bench or something.

If you can get an active external preamp/mixer, that will inject line or mic level signals into the FX1. Having separate pots for each mic will allow you finer adjustments, instead of the camera pot. The place the camera pots are allows very little adjustment during shooting, and an external preamp can help there. Beachtek has passive and active models.

The image quality between the FX1 and Z1 should be the same, only the adjustments are better on the latter. You can still get superb results from it.


Carlos

thanks Carlos - great response . My thoughts are I would hate to bulk up the fx anymore but you're right about the bt having more available hands on control. I already have a good audio technica 835 ( i believe is the # ). Today I want to check into prices for matteboxes and follow focuses. My thinking is .... a bare z1 or a beefed up fx1 ( maybe I'll start a new thread over there with that ques )? And your absolutely right about the pdx10. It's always been , since I decided about 6 months ago to buy a new camera, in the running as 16:9 is my most important feature (if Nattress only had his uprezzing plugin ready ). And , as with John , I would definitely be interested in a native 16:9 dvx but I agree with Boyd on that one . However I'm probably not going to make my decision before mid april anyway and if the new panasonic came in cheap ( in the z1 range )w/o p2 cards then that could swing my vote. But , like you said , that little sony at $16 bills is now a real deal and probably all I need . Truth be told, probably all I need is the little sony hc90 , that has a true 16:9 and 30p. I'm a firm believer in content 90% - image 10%. However , it's so much fun shopping for toys/tools. thanks for your responses guys. Kurth

I had a power spike or something late last night. I had my HD1 on the AC charger going into a UPS (comp is on a seperate UPS) and it even tripped that up. Lights got brighter for a split second (one lightbulb blew in the house) and then everything shut off. The cam UPS never switched into battery mode. When the power came back on, the HD1 wasn't working. Not sure what to do I just let it sit and went to bed (mainly to avoid panic*). Now this morning, it's still doesn't turn on - in either Play or Cam mode, on battery or AC. The UPS it was on is working fine (unplug it from the wall, it makes it's chirp and keeps things running).

Does anyone have anything at all I can try? Is there a settings battery inside that I can try pulling out? Maybe it's 'CMOS' or something got borqed? AIEEE


* I've got a bouldering/rock climbing gig this weekend I'm supposed to be taping ($$$, hotel, etc).

What is the absolute cheapest rock bottom *decent* cam that I can run out and buy at the local Best Buy or Circuit City within the next few hours. I've got a Ritz nearby as well, but that's about it (Columbia, MD area if anyone can recommend me a shop). I've seen the GS-120 for $500ish. I know they usually have the Opturas as well.

Thank you thank you thank you...

*avoids panic*

No experience with either the HD1 or cheap single chippers, but you should call your electric utility company and file a report. If you can document/corroborate your power spike problems you may be able to collect some damages from them.

Sounds like there's probably some sort of internal fuse in the camera that's blown...

LOVE the desk Boyd..really nice..

Sorry, I'm not sure what that means...?

* I've got a bouldering/rock climbing gig this weekend I'm supposed to be taping ($$$, hotel, etc).

What is the absolute cheapest rock bottom *decent* cam that I can run out and buy at the local Best Buy or Circuit City within the next few hours. I've got a Ritz nearby as well, but that's about it (Columbia, MD area if anyone can recommend me a shop). I've seen the GS-120 for $500ish. I know they usually have the Opturas as well.

Maybe you could rent a camera? If you need an item for a few days most rental places will give you 3-day weeks or things like that (pay for 3 days, have the camera for 7).

For a consumer-type camera renting may not be that economical. If the client is important you might want to rent a professional-looking camera so they feel good about spending their money on you (consumer cameras aren't inspiring).

2- Best Buy and Circuity City likely have decent refund policies, so I suppose you can return the camera if you qualify for a refund. Keep the original receipt and things like that. Plus, those stores are usually overpriced (unless it's open box). I'll stop giving hints now.

Thanks all for the responses!

Actually a friend of a friend ended up bring a GL2 so the weekend was saved...

I went out today and bought a GS150 for my own personal replacement (plus a full compliment of 37mm filters and lenses). I love the HD1 hdv (even w/ the quirky controls) and I was thinking about replacing it with the same, but I decided to hold off until the next round of cams come out. The Sony doesn't interest me (interlaced, not progressive) and JVC and Pana seem to have something in the wings.

In the meantime, I've contacted the insurance co and the power co and I'll see what I can do with that, but ultimately the weekend worked out fine. Nothing like have unforseen catastrophe at the absolute last minute to really test your abilities under stress ;)

There are so many camera choices out now that Im not really sure which camera I wanna go with. Im mainly going to shoot sports footage, autoracing, outdoor events, hunting/fishing footage. Im not interested so much in 24p because Im not looking for an indie film camera. Im leaning toward the FX1 because of picture quality but some drawback are no XLR inputs and lack of HD delievery. Ive also heard of some blurring when panning the FX1. I'd like to get some input on what everyone thinks which camera would fit my needs. If it means anything Im editing on AVID Xpress Pro.

Thanks,
Andrew

Unless you have clients DEMANDING HD, then your choice is the Canon XL2.

I still prefer an old XL1 for sports shooting over Panasonic and Sony's offerings.

Try the Sony DSR PD 170, if anything else then for its easy maneuverability. Fantastic picture, too, but then again, I own that and an XL1s.

A theoretical discussion:
During my last vacation, my little Canon ZR40 proved woefully underpowered. Not wide enough lens, not enough low light picture, so-so sound. The only thing it was really good at was being small enough to put in my cargo pants pocket and shoot inconspicuously in places I maybe shouldn't have been shooting.

This is what I'm looking for in a travel camera:
Very good picture quality.
A wider lens.
Big telephoto not as important, but a good image stabilizer is.
Very good low light performance.
Good sound with the on-board mic.
Small size is preferable, but if it won't fit in my pocket (and I realize it likely won't) then I don't care how big it is -up to a point (XL2 too big).
Must have shoe mount.
Some manual control would be sweet.
HDV would be nice for future considerations, but not essential since it limits my choices.
Widescreen would be nice, but not essential.
24p not needed.

What would my perfect travel/vacation video camera be?

funny you should ask..i just bought my travel camera

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42405

I am not sure where to put this thread but is there any kind of concensus, or could I have suggestions as to which camcorder right now $1200 and under has the best looking video quality overall, even to use for say a cable television/satellite show, etc?

Just overall the best looking video - color, resolution, etc.

Thanks for any suggestions,
John Haskins

is that new or used? because i might be tempted to get any used 1/3 3 chip cam with full manual then a new anything without it...

I got a Panasonic GS400 for about your $1200 mark. With the exception of some manual control, it's 3-1/4" ccd's give me an image like my friends GL2. The only real problem with the GS400 is that the exposure wide open doesn't compete with my VX2100...not even close.

For the price point, you could hunt up a used VX2000...

Thanks for the comments so far.

Also, is it an ABSOLUTE that a 3 chip DV camcorder, even a 1/6 inch ccd 3-chip, is better for greenscreening than any 1 chip, say like a Canon Optura? or is this not always the case?

Thanks,
John

I've been seeing used Canon Gl1's for around the $1000 mark. Not sure how it compares against the GS400.

I've been carrying a Sony PC110 around for a long time now and really like it. Not great in low light but I've used it out with the police at night. They really like the super night shot where we can look deep into back yards without shining an obvious light on them.

The megapixel still camera does quite well and, of course, the newer 3 megapixel models would be even nicer.

The on-board microphone is fairly good but I carry an inexpensive Sony Stereo microphone as well.

I have a Century WA adapter that is incredibly sharp at all zooms.

The image stabilizer is very effective.

I use this camera as an Altar Camera for weddings. The brides really like the different POV. It cuts well with my PD150 and DSR-300 footage as long as the light doesn't get too dim.

Did I mention it is rugged and because of the bottom-opening tape compartment, fairly well sealed against dust and the misfortunes of the environment.

I find that stealth is important on vacation as is size. I wouldn't bring my PD-150 along as it is way too big.

My previous vacation camera was a Sony 3300 Hi-8. It was fairly small as 8mm cameras go but it was a bit too large to schlep around Europe.

I will be heading to Hawaii this summer for two weeks with my family - vacation time. I'm trying to decide if I should take my Canon GL2 camcorder, or my Sony DCR TRV10. The Canon is a better camcorder, but it's definitely larger. Has anyone out there done a Hawaii vacation with their camcorder? Any advice?