I want to get a fluid head tripod but I have NO idea which one to get. This would be used for hobby use on my GL2. i'd like to keep it under $200. Light weight would also be good.

Thanks!

I've been looking at the Libec M20 over at zotz (one of the sponsers) but have no experience with one...

I don't think you're going to find something good (for your GL2) for under or about $200 (US). If you do, though, do let us know.

I suggest you go to WalMart, and buy the heaviest tripod they have for $60.00. You won't be happy with it, it will suck. However, I spent almost $300.00 on a Bogen tripod and head, only to find that they don't make any quality tripods for under $500-$1,000. I would have still been miserable, but saved $200.

I am somewhat happy with the legs, but the head is garbage.
It may be pesimisstic, but I hope it helps.
Keith

<<<-- Originally posted by mark_reidy : I've been looking at the Libec M20 over at zotz... -->>>

At $200, the Libec TH-M20 is probably THE only tripod worthy of carrying it's pricetag.

I had previously purchased a Bogen "fluid" head at around $60 and planned to match it with a set of $150-ish legs. Bogen's available selection in THAT price range is just downright depressing. The Bogen 3021 had round leg shafts (seems prone to torsional twisting), no center spreader (looks like I'd be adjusting it forever), and the ends of the feet was just a rubber cap. I've seen more features in the cheap Velbon/Slik junk than what Bogen was offering. Even my previous, no-name $45 complete tripod (head/legs -- gave me a decade of use) had more leg features.

When I came across the Libec TH-M20 (aka Bescor TH-650 and Matthews TH-M20C), it was easy to see I got a good deal. Lots of thoughtful features:

The quick-release mounting plate is easily double the size of most other plates in this range. The spring-loaded cam lock will stay open in place when the plate is removed and will automatically lock in once the plate is returned.

The head offers some progressive counter-resistance. This isn't ANYWHERE NEAR as sophisticated as the balanced counterweight springs of a $2500 Vinten or Sachtler, but then I've never seen this feature offered by Bogen at -this- pricetag. At the very least, this unadjustable resistance is good enough to ensure a loaded XL-1 on a fully loosened head doesn't flop forward violently and damage itself.

The TH-M20 is my first experience with a claw-ball leveling head, but after trying it out, I'm an instant convert. I won't miss the days of having to adjust and readjust leg lengths to level a geared-column style head. The Libec's head can be visualized as a hemisphere bottom that rests inside a matching "bowl" socket... this allows the head to pivot in virtually any fore/aft/left/right angle before a knob at the bottom is used to lock it down. A bubble-indicator makes it easy to tell when the head is level even if the legs are on an uneven surface. All the traditional lockable tilt/pan features are there. The "fluidness" of the head works reasonably well again for a device in this price range.

The upper two segments of the legs are the twin-tube variety. They might be thin, but I'll take this anyday over a single rounded Bogen tube.

The rubber feet twists away to reveal a metal spike and lastly, there's a center leg spreader for quick setup convenience.

One more tiny feature... the three legs come together to form a stub that can be locked with a clip. This prevents the legs from flying apart during transport.

As I said, all nice features for anything in the $200 range and worthy of the infrequent DV hobbyist.

Now that Zotzdigital.com carries this, I plan to order a 2nd one so that my cameras don't have to fight over who gets to go on the GOOD tripod.

Brian over at Zotz also indicates they carry additional quick-release plates for this tripod.

Thanks very much for the comprehensive review!

Carter,
Thanks for the heads up on that jewel! I wish I had heard of them before I bought my Bogen. I had originally looked at the Slik models you metioned, but after listening to too many people crow over Bogen, I changed my mind. It was only after the purchase, that I find out the "Good" Bogens start at over $500. Anything else is junk.

Well, if they can't make a good product for less than that, I'm not going to belive that their pricier models will be any better. I will never buy Bogen again. I will however, look seriously at Libec and Slik.
Thanks.
Keith

Capt Quirk,

I have a Manfrotto (Bogan) #136 video head and Manfrotto #075 legs (black). This would cost you under $400 US if you buy it in Canada. I assure you, it is not "junk." The legs alone weigh 9.9 pounds, with a built-in type of lockable spreader; and the head is both solid and fluid, quite nice for a small hand-held cam.

Hey Guys!

Thanks for all the great advice! I am going to definatley check out the Libec! Carter, could you do me a favor and check this link out
http://www02.bhphotovideo.com/default.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___243272___DAPVT75
___REG___CatID=3949___SID=EFB404B7170

ANd let me know if you think that the Libec is still better and why? I plan to put an XL1 on top of it.

Thanks!
-SL

I recently purchased a libec M20 from zotzdigital.com along with my GL2 and am thoroughly pleased with its performance. I cannot offer any more useful information than was offered above, but I can guarantee you that it is an excellent tripod to use in conjunction with a GL2. zotz also has great customer service and I wouldn't consider buying anywhere else.

-Cocobutt

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in. I recently purchased a GL2, primarily for interviews. Naturally, eliminating camera shake while making adjustments and while zooming and reframing were important priorities. However, the budget is not unlimited. I already had a set of Bogen sticks, a Manfrotto 055 actually (Canada: different distributor). I've had them for 20 yrs for still photography and they've been great, considering their light weight. They are the equivalent of the current Bogen 3221. They are three section legs, no spreader. The legs can be set to three different splay angles with a lever at the top of each. The center column is smooth with a clamp setting, and in two sections so it can be shortened or reversed (excellent makeshift copy stand). It will take most Manfrotto/Bogen heads. But, I thought, maybe too light for video. Based on reviews, etc., though, I decided to put my money first in a solid Manfrotto head, the 501 (3433), and caugh up for sturdier legs later if necessary, instead of copping for the Libec M20. I got the 501 for $130 from B&H, and it is a very nice piece of equipment. Very smooth, adjustable, with good locks and no backlash. Absolutely great mounting plate that slides on the head, allowing you to balance the camera as you like. I recommend it thoroughly. The surprise was that the legs work great with it. For low level (subject in easy chair, camera at subject chest) it is very solid, and the splay options allow for a wider footprint where practical. At standing extension, it also seems fine, so far. No torquing or lateral instability. I really think it is a viable option for a relatively inexpensive set up that can be easily carried. If I really need more later, I can go for the Bogen double leg model (I forget the number) which is less flexible in some respects, but rock solid. But the 501/3221 combo really does work. As I said before, my legs are more than 20 yrs old and have been used a lot. This stuff is definitely not junk, and its interchangeability is a real asset.

Linc Kesler

I mentioned the Libec M20 in another newsgroup and got nothing back but good responses. For the $200 pricetag, I don't think it can be beat.

I also bought my Libec M20 from zotz and am happy with it. During pans it works great but it has a slight snap back during tilts, by cranking in a bit of tilt friction the snap-back can be removed so it's not a huge deal. The Libec also arrives with a nice oversized, padded, soft, carrying case that is also large enough to store my monopod and head phones.
For $200 the Libec is great.

Regards, John.

I also have been using an M20, that quite frankly has seen much better days after years of constant abuse. Problem is the plate on the head broke so I attached a bogen sliding quick release on it in place of the old one. Hell even if it aint broke, I recommend doing this, as it allows for much easier attachment, plus you can shift it to compensate for a front or back heavy camera arrangement.

At any rate, it gets my vote for a solid, inexpensive tripod.

Just my 2 nickels.

Hi:
Anyone have any experience with a Manfrotto 510? I just checked out out at the l,ocal Manfrotto dealers, and it looked a good mid-level tripod.
Comments?
Best,
Ram

Hey Guy's
This is my first post though I've been reading for a while. Thanks for all the great info.

Anyone have any experience with the Bescor Th650 at B&H? It looks pretty stout.

What part of southern KY? My wife is from Williamsburg. I'm familar with the Bescor name. They have been associated with the battery industry for years and they make a reliable battery product. The company has a good reputation. I'm not familiar with this particular tripod and the picture on B & H makes it look enticing. I think it might compare to the Libec model mentioned above. Similar features, similar price points. The Libec, from Zotz, comes highly recommended by several users and that would sway me towards the Libec.

Jeff

Hey Jeff,

We're in Burkesville, If you want you can check out our web site at www.theruralcenter.org.

The main reason I'd be interested in the Bescor is that it's rated up to 15 lbs. 4 lbs more than the libec. It's only about $10 cheaper so that isn't really a factor.

I've got a great bilora pro fi video head that I'm looking to offload if anyones interested, it's just a little bit of overkill for the xl1 and the type of stuff I'm doing (farm/nature docs.mostly) and I don't want to be lugging around an overly heavy tri.

C

Hi Chris,

i went to your web sit, very nice. it'll probably make my wife home sick a little. I doubt many have used it, Bescor just isn't a name everyone knows. That doesn't mean it bad, just hard to find good first hand information about it. If you go ahead with it, buy from a place that has a good return policy and maybe is familar with the features and benefits. I know Zotz http://www.zotzdigital.com/ carries the Libec. They may carry the Bescor too. Good luck and let us know how you make out. You can put and add for the head in the classifieds here.

Jeff

Regarding the Manfrotto 510 head... I just finished testing it and will be purchasing in the next 2 months... great little head for the money although with legs it's a wee bit heavy...

I used it with my PD150 and it was probably overkill, but ROCK SOLID and seems to be well constructed... the camera plate could be setup a little better for quick release though... it slides in front the front or the rear as opposed to a quick release.

Good shooting

Except for Sachtler fluid heads, I think the rest of the industry uses the sliding variety. I've used both, and it's what you get used to after a while. I use Vinten heads and they slide, it took me a moth or two to stop yanking on the camera and to start sliding.

Jeff

Fair enough...

As a news/documentary/production/multi-cam live shooter, of course the majority of my experience has been with the ubiquitous Sachtlers and having a sliding "sled" as opposed to a locking lift-out quick release which I can front-to-back balance once for my camera and let it sit was a bit of a change...

Oh, while I'm thinking about it....

You may want to check for the mid-level spreader when looking at legs for the Manfrotto 510... My local retailer keeps looking at me with a blank look when I ask if they can locate it... most of the legs compatible with the 510 apparently come with a spreader base, which of course is great for even floors indoors, sidewalks and all that, but for shooting outdoors in uneven terrain or even for keeping clean-up short (and relatively painless) when shooting in the mud, rain or snow (yes, I'm in Canada) I'll take a mid-spreader with feet anyday...

The mid level speader is the best in my opinion also. I switched from Sachtler to Vinten recently and I find (much to my surprise) the Vinten is comparable in almost every way. I switched for several reasons, but one that is often not thought of is the color. Black tripods on a Florida beach can be quite painful.

Jeff

Don't overlook used equipment.

In most cases, a set of sticks are going to be OK if they aren't dented. But they will probably be heavy.

Used older heads are available. I purchased a model 50 Miller for $150. It would cost 10X that today if not more. Miller will still rebuild these heads for $150 should they need work. Other manufacturers probably have the same service available.

The nice bit about tripods is that many of the modules are interchangeable. Heads and sticks, that is. And it is possible to upgrade one part of the package at a time.

The miller head is mounted on a set of Bogen sticks right now. It has a flat plate on the bottom of the head so it mounts right up to the Bogen. I can purchase a 75 or 100 mm bowl for the bottom of the head that would let it mount correctly to any number of high-end sticks.

Just some more grist for the mill.

For a little added stability on those lighter 'pods, try strapping a set of leg weights together and slinging them around the "knees" of the tripod.

While the Libec TH-M20 is a good tripod, I also think it is worth looking at the Manfrotto 028 and 501 combo which I assure is not junk in the least bit and can cost as little as $295 US if you look hunt for a deal.
R. Charles

Regarding the Manfrotto 501, legs combination mentionned just above... I didn't mind the head so much but assuming that the legs are you mentionned are the same ones I recently had the "pleasure" of using, my one complaint would be (as would be typical of all lighter tripods, mind you) that in a moderate wind, the footage was virtually unusable due to tripod shake... even placing weight on the base spreader didn't remove the "wind waggle"... just thought I'd share (once again, I realize this isn't necessarily specific to this manufacturer, but just postulating whether the money could be better spent)

Good shooting!

-Shaun