I love the mic- it's absolutly great for picking up sit-down interviews and speech. It doesn't, however, fend well in loud environments like wedding receptions. It seems to work great as a back up to my wireless at the ceremony but during receptions where I'm around large crowds that tend to scream and applaud loudly the mic overloads. I originally had this problem and sent it back to Senheisser to have the red-dot modification done- in other words replacing a transistor to make the mike less sensitive to overloading. Got it back and definitly seems to be less suceptable to overload and clip/distort. I thought I was good to go till I shot with it this weekend at a reception. Anytime the crowd would cheer our scream the mic would just go to cr*p and begin clipping. Oddly enough the audio meters on my cam weren't even spiking- there was plenty of headroom.

I actually believe the stock mic would fend better- granted it's not as sensitive and doesn't have as much fidelity but wouldn't OVERLOAD so easily.

Does anyone have a suggestion on what kind of shotgun I can use that will be both sensitive and clear yet won't overload as soon as the db get loud? Is it even a possible combination- a sensitive mic...that doesn't overload? Any and all input will greatly be appreciated.

Even though you've had the mod done, I would at least test with some additional attenuation between the mic and the camera. (Which camera by the way?)
This is the only way to know for sure whether the mic itself is overloading or whether you're still overloading the input even with the red dot modification.
If you provide more attenuation and the distortion stops, even after bringing up the input level control to compensate for the attenuation, then you were overdriving the camera input.
If the distortion stays even though the sound is lower, then it's the mic.
I honestly think it's the shotgun pattern being overwhelmed by the indoor crowd. Even though a crowd can be very loud I don't think they'd be purely exceding the mic's max SPL. I think it's the sound coming from all sides.
The AT4073a is even hotter than the ME66, so you'd still have to make sure you didn't overdrive the camera inputs. But it has much less reputation for distorting the mic itself under these conditions.
There are other less expensive choices that can clearly handle high SPL's and provide a more "regular" mic level signal. Many of these are also very good as to self-noise and clarity, but they won't be as directional in their pickup for quiet situations.

You need limiters. What camera?

It's a PD-170. It's definitly the mic- I turned down the inputs to like two notches above completly muted and I still heard clipping.

Did you engage the MIC ATT switch on the camera? This will attenuate the input and is more appropriate for the ME66.
If a hot mic overdrives the camera input, then the level controls and metereing won't be effective at controlling or judging the problem. You're running out of headroom at the mic input and this occurs before the level controls or metering.
It still could be the mic, but using the MIC ATT switch will help considerably and will tell you for sure where the problem lies.

Like I said I know it's overloading at the mic not cam. My manual settings for the mic input were abnormally low- barely even registering a half a bar- yet alone approaching red. All the while the distortion/clipping still existed.

You didn't read my post. What I'm saying is that the symptoms you describe point exactly to overloading the camera input. It still could be the mic, but if you aren't engaging the MIC ATT switch, then it's much more likely that it's the camera and not the mic. It's still possible that it could be the mic, especially since you already had the red dot modification, but you can't say this for certain until you add some additional attenuation (either externally or with the camera's MIC ATT switch) and see what happens.

The input itself is the first thing the mic signal enters. If you overload this with a hot mic, then everything that follows will be ineffective.

The level controls and the metering come next. They only indicate how the digitized signal will be layed to tape. If your input ran out of headroom and the digital peaks are clipped, then it won't matter how low you set the levels.

If you add additional attenuation between the mic and the camera input and you still get distortion, then you can say with much more certainty that it's the mic.

I understand what your trying to explain but how can it be overloading the input if my audio bars are nowhere near red-lining? If the cam's mic input was getting overloaded wouldn't it be apparent in the audio bars?

This was my issue Glen with the AT835ST. The attenuators fixed it (but I need to use a lower setting). Too much energy before it hit the amplifiers. Even though I was not hitting 0dB, I was getting a crackle. The signal from the mic is too much and the attenuators seem to have fixed it. See my thread on the AT835ST Roll off.

Exactly, by the time your signal gets to the level controls and the meters, the damage is already done because the camera's input couldn't handle what it is being fed.
Think of it this way- The first thing the signal hits is an opening with only 3 sizes (Mic, Mic ATT, Line) and no metering. If the signal is too big to get through the "Mic" opening and you don't engage the "Mic ATT" switch to handle it, then the signal will be damaged. The damaged signal will then go to the level controls which determine how much of the damaged signal to record on tape. Your meters give you a visual representation of how much signal you're recording to tape. Even though the meters are showing you have room left before overload to tape, the initial overload at the input has already occured.
As I said, it still could be the mic itself, but using additional attenuation will point you to the culprit so you'll know for sure.

One other thing, are you running the mic on phantom or battery?
Running on phantom gives the mic greater ability to handle loud sounds, but it also makes the signal slightly hotter.
If you're running the mic on its internal battery, make sure you have a fresh one in place and that all the contacts are clean. Even a fingerprint on the end of your battery can defeat 1.5 volts after it oxidizes for awhile.

Glen, you should listen to Jay. I have the same cam/mics
and have had the exact same symptoms. The mic
is not overloading. *The input* is overloading.
Switch to MIC ATT on the cam. That'll take care of it.

Glen
It can't hurt to try it. It will do the job.

Thanks for all the input- I'll give it a shot.

Glenn, please let us know how you make out. The ideas involved are intriguing.

I just did an extensive test of the me66 against the At4073a and I was really surprised at how little off axis rejection and downright poor rear rejection the me66 has. In a situation with sound coming from all directions I'm not surprised that the me66 overloads so much faster then the 4073a... even though the 4073a is actually much more sensitive.

The me66 is hearing every sound that's coming at it and the 4073a is mainly hearing what's straight ahead.

If you want to hear it for yourself then go to the 4073a thread.

Matt,

I'm getting the idea from this thread and a few others that you love your At4073a mic. Wish I could afford it. But since I can't, what mic in the ME66 price range would you recommend?

If you can afford an me66 at it's current price... which is $450 from B&H... then the 4073a is only $80 more. $530 at B&H... click "add to cart" and you'll see.

If you are absolutely maxing it out to get the me66 at $450, then I'd try to get a comparison of the me66 and At897... unfortunately I haven't heard that mic yet... so I can't offer a real-world opinion on it. That mic does include the option of running battery/phantom and pretty much everybody believes AT was gunning for the me66 when they released the 897. If you want to spend less get an 835b.

And my final recommendation is... if you like the me66 get that. In a complex mix of music and sound effects the me66 should cut through with a clear voice... I just think that other options should be considered and I've been trying to offer an objective sampling of what mics really sound like.

I bought an me66 myself and used it for over a year... I don't want to create any feelings of hostility over it, but you can hear it for yourself and choose what you like best.

BTW I no longer OWN a 4073a... I sold it this past winter and I only recently bought an mkh416. There is NOBODY who wants a 416 to beat out a 4073a more then I do. The 4073a in those tests is owned by a woman that I occasionally shoot for... she got it on my recommendation a couple months ago.

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Like I said I know it's overloading at the mic not cam. My manual settings for the mic input were abnormally low- barely even registering a half a bar- yet alone approaching red. All the while the distortion/clipping still existed. -->>>

I'm on record as believing that too, but I just came across this in my GL2 manual (page 57):

"2. Turn the L/R LEVEL dial to adjust the *recording* [emphasis added] level.....
...Even if you turn down the LEVEL dial, the sound may be distorted if the input level is still too high. Turn on the microphone attenuator in such a case."

This is probably true of the PD-170 too, and this is what Jay has been saying all along.

[note to self--RTFM!]

ME-66 + Canon XM2 here.

I too need to have the MIC ATT switched on. Turning dials doesn't do it. ME-66 is a spanking good mic. I've done interviews in noisy areas and its characteristics are great for the money. Don't you DARE sell it - you WILL regret it! DO, do the MIC ATT first. Play with the dials from there and truly listen to everything in POST and on a final presentation format - wonderful!

Grazie

I wouldn't say that you'll regret it... if you can pony up for a 4073a you'll have the opposite of regret. The 4073a has twice the side and rear rejection making it way better then the me66 in a noisy environment.

The 4073a is a much, much better sounding me66... on steroids. I tried to cushion my comments to not offend any current me66 owners, but c'mon, listen to the clips. It 'aint even close.

<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier : I wouldn't say that you'll regret it... if you can pony up for a 4073a you'll have the opposite of regret. The 4073a has twice the side and rear rejection making it way better then the me66 in a noisy environment.

The 4073a is a much, much better sounding me66... on steroids. I tried to cushion my comments to not offend any current me66 owners, but c'mon, listen to the clips. It 'aint even close. -->>>

Clips? Speaking of which do you have any audio examples. I have to hear it to believe it. I want to *hear* that it is much, MUCH better as you state.

Click HERE to listen to the difference between an me66 and a 4073a. (http://www.gettreel.com/me66%20vs%204073a.wma)

If you have a pair of 7506s or at least a MARGINAL set of speakers then the difference is HUGE. Pay attention to the tone of both mics, as well as the off-axis and rear rejection.

Matt - FAB test! Yes I see . . er . . .. hear . .. what you are driving at. Great tone on the 4073a - the 66 does sound "bright" . .. .

I really appreciate the almost complete drop off at the rear. Very good!

I think if I'd seen or heard this 4073a in London I might have been tipped towards it. However, the price difference is somewhat greater, if I can gather from your side of the pond. I still might have stayed with the Senni and still have afforded the Canon WD58h wide angle lens instead!

Matt once again, thank you for taking the time out to really demonstrate the differences. So you have both too! .. . interesting .. .

Grazie

Matt, here's the link to the 4073a technical sheets. I seem to remember the graph shape around the rear of the ME66 was in fact bigger - yeah?

http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT4073a.html

Been looking for the graph for us to complare .. .haven't found the ME66 technical sheets yet.

Graham,try this link. (http://www.dvfreelancer.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=19) It'll have links for audio demos that explore the shotgun polar patterns as well as links to the various tech bulletins that will include the polar plots and freq response

Excellent site Bryan. I see Matt is there too! Interesting .. .

Grazie

Graham... thanks for the compliment! It really means a lot to me to get the thanks I do for going to the trouble to do these things. Beas deserves a big thanks too... obviously!

Hey just to let you know where I'm coming from... I'm not one of these guys that you see on the forums who FIGHTS for everybody to make the same choices as he did. That's not what these comparisons are about. Realize that I BOUGHT all these mics at one time or another! I'm in that leaky boat WITH YOU.

I just happen to be fanatical about sound and as I discovered there were better choices that I didn't know about... I got pissed. After you've already bought a mic tests like this don't make you feel good about it... but it doesn't change what you hear.

Besides... everybody's perfectly capable of getting good recordings with whatever they want. I'm just offering a little information for those who want to listen. I only do these tests for two reasons... 1) I really like communicating with people about ideas... and 2) I'm obsessive compulsive about sound.

Understood . . .

Ah life and hindsight ! . . . And learning . . . and learning more . . .

Will I sell my 66 and upgrade to another mic? No, not at the moment. Will I "think" on with what you have presented to me -you BETCHA!

Good sound can make an average video superb. But well shot footage can be made rubbish by bad audio!! - Totally agree with your comments. "Obsession" - nah, care and attention and a pro attitude towards audio.

Multimedia means just that - eh? Each needing their just attention by us. We forget this at our peril.

Grazie