View Full Version : MA-100 XLR audio adapter questions
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Thijo van Beek March 11th, 2007, 05:36 AM Hi Jack,
The settings were as you wrote,
exept the bit setting was on 12 bit, not on 16.
Could that have made the difference?
By the way: I think I found a reason why I had so much noise.
I can't test that idea yet, as the mic is in use somewhere else at the moment.
But I found out the headphones volume was wide open for some reason.
I never filmed with the mic, as I thought the noise was terrible through the headphones.
But that might (?!) have been a reason.
Maybe if I would have filmed a few shots, it would have been better then I thought.
Right?
Thijo
Jack Smith March 11th, 2007, 11:19 AM The headphone volume would not having any affect the recorded sound.
I think if you had the audio 1 set to line as I had indicated in the previous post, that is the problem.The MA100 outputs MIC level.
I had made the same mistake.
Basically, the switch behind the door sets the input source and the menu sets the input level sensitivity.So setting the menu to LINE would be for a CD or vcr or line level from a mixer.(using RCAs)
Setting the menu to MIC is for the MA100 or other MIC level sources.
The MA100 will not accept a line level input.
Don Palomaki March 12th, 2007, 03:29 AM As Jack says, the head phone level setting will not effect the recorded sound, either level or noise floor. However, it can effect the subjective impression of noise level, especially hiss. Using headphones make hiss much more apparent to a listener.
And Jack is spot on with respect to the MA-100. It is intended for mic level signals. Line level signals sent to the MA-100 will clip at about around -10 dB. The level range (MIC, MIC ATT, LINE) for the audio 1 and Audio 2 input is selected from the menu.
Using 12-bit vs. 16-bit would not have any effect on record level. It mainly effects frequency response (due to different sample rates) and perhaps a slight effects on distortion. 16-bit mode is better quality, but limits you to two recorded channels. 12-bit is approximately FM broadcast quality potential
Simon Duncan May 29th, 2007, 07:46 AM I have a Canon XL1 and have just bought Beyerdynamic M58 microphone for Interviews. I have a mini jack to XLR adapter which I plug in where the On camera mic goes and guess what it don't work. So I have been informed at I require and additional adapter.
I am also looking at the Canon MA-100
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_Adapter.html
My question is will this unit power my new mic?
Meaning will I get audio working correctly?
I have been really happy with the picture of this camera for the age of the camera and price but the audio has always been a problem.
So people will the Canon MA-100 adapter work?
Thanks
Cole McDonald May 29th, 2007, 08:23 AM my MA-100 works like a champ. It provides an XLR interface as well as phantom power. Should run whatever you throw at it. Although, I didn't design it, so I'm not the end all, be all authority on saidsame adaptor.
Simon Duncan May 29th, 2007, 08:53 AM Thanks for your reply Cole,
Just a quick question.
With the MA-100 there are 3 connection cables?
IE 1 red RCA, 1 white RCA (these are the actual audio cables?) and a small mini jack cable?
Is the small mini jack cable for Phantom power?
Is this how the microphone used is able to access power?
Sorry if these questions are really basic but I have just bought a good mic and I want to make sure it will work with this adapter.
Thanks
Simon
Greg Boston May 29th, 2007, 09:10 AM my MA-100 works like a champ. It provides an XLR interface as well as phantom power.
Sorry Cole, that's incorrect. The MA-100 DOES NOT provide phantom power. The little connector that plugs into the camera provides power for the pre-amp built into the MA-100.
So, whatever mic you plug in, must either be a dynamic, or one that can provide its own phantom power like the K6 module does on my Sennheiser ME66 shotgun.
Using wireless lavs would work okay.
-gb-
Simon Duncan May 29th, 2007, 09:17 AM Thanks also Greg,
Currently I will be using a Beyerdynamic M58 which according to the Product Information booklet it is a Dynamic Microphone.
So it should work fine with the MA-100 Adapter?
Thanks
Simon
Greg Boston May 29th, 2007, 09:22 AM Thanks also Greg,
Currently I will be using a Beyerdynamic M58 which according to the Product Information booklet it is a Dynamic Microphone.
So it should work fine with the MA-100 Adapter?
Thanks
Simon
Yes, a dynamic mic will work fine as they do not require a power source.
-gb-
Cole McDonald May 30th, 2007, 09:05 PM Sorry Cole, that's incorrect. The MA-100 DOES NOT provide phantom power. The little connector that plugs into the camera provides power for the pre-amp built into the MA-100.
So, whatever mic you plug in, must either be a dynamic, or one that can provide its own phantom power like the K6 module does on my Sennheiser ME66 shotgun.
Using wireless lavs would work okay.
-gb-
I sit corrected. Good info, thank you.
Don Palomaki May 31st, 2007, 06:45 AM A dynamic mic, such as the Bayerdynamic M58 should work OK with the MA100. BTW, the MA100 does provide about 6 dB gain, which will be helpful with dynamic mics (because they typically have lower output than condenser mics).
I am surprise that it did not work when plugged into the XL1 mic jack. It should have worked OK, but with lower audio level than the Canon stock mic. The adapter you had may not have been wired properly, or it was the wrong type of adapter.
Simon Duncan June 1st, 2007, 02:23 PM OK so I am really totally confused now. I have a brand new Beyerdynamic Mic (Dynamic Mic) and a new Canon MA-100 adapter just arrived from B&H. Now when I connect the MA-100 to my camera - connect the 2 RCA audio cables and the 3rd small power cable to the camera - plug in my shiny new Beyerdynamic Mic I get no sound what's so even.
When I look in the cameras menu setup I have the following:
Sensor ... ON
Tally Lamp ...OFF
Audio Mode ... 16 bit
Audio 1 In ... ---
Audio 2 In ... ---
Rec Mode ... SP
So guys what am I doing wrong not to get any audio out of my shinny new gear.
Just to repeat I don't get any audio whatsoever.
I have tried opening the white flap on the camera and under the AUDIO 1/MIC
setting change the input select to MIC or ATT or AUDIO 1 and the only time I get any change in the camera menu setting is when I select AUDIO 1 the camera menu setting AUDIO 1 in ... LINE
Remember I am using a Canon XL1 but this should work.
Any help???
Jack Smith June 1st, 2007, 06:21 PM Simon, if you are recording only from the Beyer mic, go into the menu ,vcr setup, set audio mode to 16 bit, go to audio 1 in and set to line,close the menu and open the audio door and set the audio 1/mic input to audio1.
make sure the ma100 is plugged in as you described( both RCAs and the MA100 power plug).That's it, it should work.
If your trying to do both the stock mic and the Beyer, it's a different process.
I see by your description
"When I look in the cameras menu setup I have the following:
Sensor ... ON
Tally Lamp ...OFF
Audio Mode ... 16 bit
Audio 1 In ... ---
Audio 2 In ... ---
Rec Mode ... SP"
the audio 1 is blank, so you have not set the audio1 in correctly.
Don Palomaki June 1st, 2007, 07:10 PM A common issue for new users who have not studied the manual carefully.
To use the MA100 - connected it to the Audio 1 input jacks and the power jack.
You have to set the input select switch to Audio 1 (switch behind the door).
For this mic, you have to set the audio one input level (from the menu) to MIC (it defaults to line, which is about 45 dB less sensitive, and any audio from the mic would be very faint)
With only 1 mic connected the sound will probably be in the left (or right) channel only. You can pan the audio to both channels in post.
Simon Duncan June 2nd, 2007, 04:56 AM Hi Jack,
I have had success with your set-up but it works with setting the Audio 1 In to MIC rather than LINE.
I then close the menu and open up the white audio door on the camera and under AUDIO 1/MIC under Input Select I switch to Audio 1 and I get sound.
What is the difference between MIC and ATT? Since ATT sounds clearer.
Thanks for all your help. But the real lesson for me is READ THE GOD DAM MANUAL SIMON!
Don Palomaki June 2nd, 2007, 05:49 AM The difference between MIC and MIC ATT is that the MIC ATT setting reduces the amplitude of the input signal by 20 dB. This may be necessary necessary to avoid overloading the preamps and clipping if you are recording a very loud source, or using a very 'hot" mic. If using AGC mode, it may help reduce the pumping of the noise floor during quiet program material periods.
In most cases you need to be monitoring the audio to help you decide if the MIC ATT setting is the better way to go.
Jack Smith June 2nd, 2007, 09:27 AM Of course Don is right.I should have reread my post before sending.
Simon Duncan June 2nd, 2007, 09:37 AM A few more lame questions:
What is AGC mode?
What does AGC stand for?
Thanks
Don Palomaki June 2nd, 2007, 10:46 AM AGC = automatic gain control. The camcorder adjusts the gain of the audio preamplifiers to try maintain an average recorded sound level. With soft sounds, the gain is increased. With loud sounds it is decreased.
You have this with the REC LEVEL switch set to "A" for auto. The "M" position = manual level adjustment.
Simon Duncan June 4th, 2007, 02:59 PM OK a big thank you to all for your comments.
I now have the microphone working via the MA-100 adapter.
But I do notice that when I'm doing some testing with the Mircophone on the camera audio meter I getting a ready of around 12db as peak. On the audio meter this 12db is bolded so I assume that this indicts an audio level average one would like to aim for. I have been doing all this test with the microphone only say some 10 cm from my mouth so this is pretty close.
I have tried switching the audio level over to manual and turning the Level knob right around to Max which does see my audio on the meter peak up around 6 to 2. But when I take the mic say some 30 to 40 cm from my mouth is naturally drops back around the 12db level.
So my question is:
Does this all sound correct?
Ideally what is the level one should be aiming at for interview style recording?
EG is the 12db what I should looking at for a peaking level?
Remember I will be using this for an ENG Interview style reporting so in all honesty the interviewer will most likely have the mic some 30 to 40 cm away from the talents mouth.
As much as I don't want to and can't afford a mixer is there where I'm heading if I want to get good clear audio for my current setup?
Cole McDonald June 4th, 2007, 05:39 PM you should try to run with the audio knob around 50%...max will add all kinds of hiss that is full spectrum, so can't be removed well in post. Something called electronics ceiling or basement or something like that causes this.
Don Palomaki June 5th, 2007, 08:00 AM The mark at -12 is 12 dB below maximum digital record level (or the point where clipping starts). This is a reasonable level for most (but not all) purposes, and gives sufficient head room so that that sudden loud sounds will not clip. Many professionals use more like 18 dB of headroom in their recordings.
The levels you report with manual gain are characteristic of the relatively low output level of dynamic mics. The final criteria of course is how the captured sound is when you go to edit. You can always adjust level in post, but it is more difficult to remove distortion caused by clipping or overloading the preamps during recording.
The baseline noise is typically set by the first set of preamps, and subsequent amps do not contribute much to it, so it is usually desirable to have as high a starting audio signal as is practicable. But things are not always that simple.
Condenser mics have higher output due in part to having an internal amplifier. Some have higher noise levels from their internal amps than others, and in fact some low cost mics may contribute more noise than the camcorder's preamps, so it becomes a matter selecting and matching the equipment to the best advantage, and operating the equipment in ways that minimize objectionable noise in the final output.
It is worth noting that many people find totally noise free audio some what unsettling, probably because it is unnatural.
Waldemar Winkler June 5th, 2007, 05:56 PM A few more lame questions:
What is AGC mode?
What does AGC stand for?
Thanks
Automatic Gain Control.
Very basically, AGC works by the camera's audio gain increasing to maximum until an audio signal is "heard". Then the gain drops down to a level that puts that "heard" sound in proper balance. From that point forward, AGC adjusts incoming audio to keep it within that proper balance.
A pause, or extended lapse in sound, forces AGC to again increase to maximum while waiting for the next audio signal, which repeats the auto adjustment process.
Depending upon the situation, this is acceptable or not. The positive is an average stable signal with annoying high points. The negative is continually variable gain levels which is, at the very least, an invitation to long and tedious audio editing sessions. If you need to use AGC, try to make it the ambient audio track in post.
For live performance shoots at least one of my cameras is set to AGC. The others are fixed to stable audio audio feeds.
James Emory June 8th, 2007, 12:40 AM ... Many professionals use more like 18 dB of headroom in their recordings. ...
All of the audio guys that have hooked up to my camera with mixers always set their tone level at -20 dB.
Simon Duncan June 22nd, 2007, 02:31 AM A follow up question regarding the MA-100 used with the Beyerdynamic mic.
I have recorded an interview and when I recorded this I had the Rec Level at 50% since I didn't want to introduce too much interference or noise.
Now that I am editing this the audio is clean but the level are low. EG Sitting between -30 and -40 db.
I can bring up the levels so it sits around the to -20 to -8 which is just acceptable but that is the maximum level my NLE will allow me.
I have 2 questions.
1) Is there anything I can do in post to increase these levels further? (I think possibly not since I have increased the levels to as high as I can)
2) What should / can I do next time I have to do an interview to get a louder and clear sound? EG Is it just a matter of increasing the recording levels? I hesitated with this on this recording due to the fear of introducing too much noise.
Don Palomaki June 22nd, 2007, 07:02 AM You can export the audio from the NLE, edit it in an audio editing program such as Audition, and then bring it back into your NLE.
Alternatively recapture the audio as analog played back by your MiniDV player, and adjust the audio level as part of the analog capture process.
In general, it is best to record the audio as close to the final intended level as you reasonably can. Amplifying the audio later also amplifies what ever noise was in the original recording as well, so recording at a low level has little or no noise benefit, and may actually hurt overall noise performance depending on the details of the systems involved.
Simon Duncan June 22nd, 2007, 12:37 PM Thanks Don,
Just a side question.
If I had a camera that delivered 48v phantom power or even a mixer would this give a better recording level of my Beyerdynamic microphone without having to ride the recording level myself?
The reason being with my current setup (Canon XL1 & MA-100) it just seems as though the mic has to almost be sitting on an interviewee's chin to really get a nice solid clean sound. I guess I have abit of a phobia about increasing the recording level too much since I can hear / feel this adding unwanted interference. I see interviewers on TV etc with what appears to be the same mic with it some 20 cm away from the talents mouth and getting good results.
Cole McDonald June 22nd, 2007, 01:38 PM Dynamic mics have very small regions of good pickup. If you want farther reach, you'll need a condenser mic to get longer throw. Dynamic mics should be about 6 inches or less from the speaker to get a *really* good signal.
Simon Duncan June 22nd, 2007, 01:53 PM Thanks Cole,
Do you have any preferred condensor mic?
Also how is a condensor mic powered?
Meaning does it require phantom power from the camera or a mixer or do they run from AAA batteries?
Thanks
Cole McDonald June 23rd, 2007, 10:12 AM I've got a Sony ECM 672 that runs off of a battery (single AA). On our last shoot, we used a Sennheiser 418? (Wonderful-ran off a phantom power inline box that came with it.)
I previously used an Audio Technica ATR55 (also ran off a AA), but since I use flourescents on my set, the audio buzz was unbearable and forced me to use noise reduction in post that ate away at the bottom end of all the voices :( The audio in my short "Scare Tactics" is the result - I also have raw footage from "French Onion" at http://www.yafiunderground.com/bolts.php with the buzzing for your reference. This buzzing was solved by switching to an XLR-based audio system.
There are plenty of good condenser mics out there, I'm personally a big fan of a nice shotgun mic (as you may be able to tell), but I do narrative work almost exclusively so far. I do have a couple of wireless lavs for when I've done weddings in the past, but I haven't used them as much as my shotguns. These mics were used in the car interior in "The Stream, The Cave ,Jim and Dave". They are Audio Technica lavs (not low end, not high end...don't know the model off the top of my head - they're not XLR though).
These forums have tons of recommendations, ty ford has a video on his website that has a good example of several different microphone types. I don't have the URL of that off the top of my head, a search here for him should get you there eventually ;)
Don Palomaki June 25th, 2007, 07:31 AM First, some mics are more sensitive than others; i.e., the amount of voltage output you get for a give sound pressure level reaching the mic. Condenser mics usually are more "sensitive" than dynamic because they have internal amplifiers. But condenser mics also have internal noise sources (the amplifiers) so you may find that they have a high noise floor, especially the lower cost models.
Some folks say a shotgun mic has more reach than non-shotgun mics. Actually, they just typically have more internal gain and more rejection of noise from the sides and/or back of the mic. You can interpret that as providing more reach if you like. However, if you factor in the sound quality (e.g., spoken voice) and discount other sound sources and reflected sounds, they are no better than non-shotgun mics, and possibly worse for pick-up of somewhat off-axis sounds due to their frequency pickup pattern characteristics. The benefit of the shotgun is suppression of sound from the sides and back, an important benefit in many venues.
It boils down to having the right mic for the shooting circumstances, and there is no one right mic that can cover every situation.
I suspect that you will seldom find a shotgun mic used as the mic of choice where the recording sound environment and be controlled.
Mics that require power may be powered by an internal battery (e.g., NTG-2, AT837) or by "phantom power" (e.g., NTG-1) or by some proprietary means specific to the brand/model (e.g., Canon's furnished mic). Which is the better way? it very much depends on the characteristics of the mic, but the combination using phantom or battery is the most flexible for most shooters?
Simon Duncan June 29th, 2007, 05:22 AM Back again guys.
This time what I want to do is set my audio up to record 4 Channels.
Actually I only need to record on 3 channels.
Channel 1 & 2 = Stereo lavalier mic
Channel 3 = Handheld Beyerdynamic Condenser mic
The deal is I want to have a lavalier mic which is stereo which I want to connect to the mini jack where the Camera Mic usually is. I will be using this mic for a sit down interview whereby I want to talent to use.
Then I want to have a handheld mic connected to my MA-100 XLR connection for me to use to ask the various questions during the interview.
The cameras menu setup is the following:
Sensor ... ON
Tally Lamp ...OFF
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... MIC
Audio 2 In ... MIC
Rec Mode ... SP"
I have played around with Audio 1 In .... & Audio 2 In .... (eg Setting to Line)
but no success.
I then select on the actual camera where the audio controls are (under the white flap) for AUDIO1\MIC to AUDIO 1
But at this stage I am getting no audio whatsoever.
Any advice would be again greatly appreciated.
PS: Audio changes / setup in the Menu should work across all types of recording? Meaning in either Auto mode or Manual Mode?
Also I have read and followed the XL1 Audio Step by Step article at
http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article71.php#3
But still no luck.
Thanks
Cole McDonald June 29th, 2007, 10:47 AM Connecting to the mic miniplug has worked very poorly for me in the past. I've had to crank the gain up to max to hear anything. I think canon made a very non-standard microphone/input combination there. I had questions about this that when asked, no one on this board was able to answer (perhaps 'cause I was green and asking the wrong questions) at the time.
But a standard mic level doesn't seem to work through that input. Someone correct me, then tell me what I was doing wrong.
Simon Duncan June 29th, 2007, 12:59 PM I actually get half decent sound when running my cheap lavalier mic from the mini jack Camera connection.
But my problem is I want to run the lavalier mic as well as a handheld.
Don Palomaki July 2nd, 2007, 07:34 AM The mini-jack mic input is 600 ohm input impedance, unbalanced at standard mic level sensitivity. it should work fine with any quality lav mic if you have an appropriate balanced-to-unbalanced adapter (if needed), but due to its low input impedance, may not give satisfactory results with some low cost consumer lav mics, or mics that require power supply over the audio cable.
To use 3 mics, you need to set up for 4-channel 12-bit ST-1/2 recording in the menus.
If using a stereo mic connected to the mic jack, you set the MIC/Audio1 switch behind the door to MIC (or mic att).
The MA-100 connects to the Audio 2 jack on the side of the handle. (The MA-100 power lead still connects to the back of the handle.) Be sure the set the audio 2 input level (from the menu) to mic or mic att as appropriate for your source
Select auto or manual level control as appropriate forre the ST1 and ST2 inputs.
And remember to set the metering and headphone monitoring to the correct setting for what you want to meter/monitor as well. Otherwise you will not see or hear what is going on audio wise.
Simon Duncan July 2nd, 2007, 12:23 PM Thanks Don,
I am managing to get sound out of my handheld mic via the MA-100 but no sound from the mini jack stero mic.
I have set 4-channel 12-bit ST-1/2
The cameras menu setup is the following:
Sensor ... ON
Tally Lamp ...OFF
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... MIC
Rec Mode ... SP"
But I still don't get any audio from the camera mic or when I hook up my stereo lavalier mic.
In the menu when I scroll to Audio 1 In and try selecting it to set it but I am unable to do it.
What am I doing wrong?
Simon Duncan July 2nd, 2007, 02:29 PM To update further.
Once my menu is as follows:
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... MIC
I have followed Don instructions but I am unable to get 3 channels of audio simultaneously. EG Lavalier mic in stereo and handheld mic.
For example when I setup as instructed and then shut the camera down and restart in manual mode I get displayed on the camera screen:
Stereo 01
12bit ST-1, 2
I then go into the menu of the camera and have the following settings:
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... MIC
If I change the setting to:
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... LINE
and then close the menu I get displayed on the camera screen:
Stereo 02
12bit ST-1, 2
But then I shut the camera off and restart and it returns with the following display:
Stereo 01
12bit ST-1, 2
Which gives me the Stereo Camera Mic or Stereo Lavailier Mic functioning depending which one I have plugged in but no Handheld mic response.
Irrespective whether I set AUDIO 2 to MIC or LINE, I still get no audio out of the handheld mic.
Am I still doing something major wrong or is my camera at fault?
Don Palomaki July 3rd, 2007, 07:48 AM Are you pressing the Audio Monitor button to allow monitoring both audio pair of channels? See page 39 (in the case of the NTSC XL1 manual) , Making a Sound Check, and page 60, Selecting Audio Output.
Daniel Lynn August 21st, 2007, 12:30 PM I just bought the MA-100 and a new Audio Technica mic new from B&H PhotoVideo.
The original problem this was when I hooked up the MA-100 there was no sound when I hooked up any xlr mics to it. Immediately I though I must be doing something wrong. I went into the menu on the XL1 and switched the input on audio 1 to "MIC" from "LINE". What I got was sound, but it was drowned out by a high pitched squeal. Unfortunately my audio 2 has never worked so I can't test it there. I then removed the xlr microphone from the MA-100 and the squeal remained. I'm not really sure what to do here.
So a few questions:
Has this happened to anyone else before? and if so, How did you resolve it?
If you own the MA-100, what settings in the XL1 do you use?
Do you have any advice for me?
Thanks in advance.
Daniel Lynn August 21st, 2007, 12:38 PM I have the exact same problem. I just posted about it. If you and I both had this problem and we've both tried a lot of things to fix it, I'm going to say that one of the following is true:
A. the MA-100s that we bought are faulty
or
B. our cameras need to be repaired.
You have the original XL1 right, not the XL1s?
Don Palomaki August 21st, 2007, 12:40 PM First report I recall reading on squeal that was not associated with an obvious feedback loop. (Could even be head phone coupling to the stock mic.)
Which model AT mic?
I usually use the MA-100 connected to the Audio1 input jacks.
MA-100 power cord to the 5 v jack on the back.
Audio1 input jack selected.
Usually manual audio control, but that will depend on the material being recorded.
Audio 1 sensitivity set to MIC or MIC ATT depending on the mic sensitivity adn material being recorded.
Note that the MA-100 is not intended for line level inputs, it will clip.
and it does not provide phantom power.
Also, some folks have had problems with the RCA connectors on the MA-100 becoming disconnected in side, probably due to puling on the cable rather than the plugs' body. A partial disconnect might produce unexpected results.
Daniel Lynn August 21st, 2007, 12:49 PM It's the AT897. I thought for a second that it is was the phatom power issue, but then I realized that I just put in a new battery in the mic. Besides, the squeal exists without anything hooked up to the MA-100. If I take out the left RCA, the right one still squeals, so it's definitely coming from the MA-100. If I take out the DC plug, it goes silent. I know the DC adapter works fine because in doing all these tests it sure ate through the battery on my XL1.
I'm starting to think that it's got to be a faulty MA-100. I think I should send it back to B&H, but I don't want to waste their or my time in doing so if I'm just doing something wrong.
Don Palomaki August 21st, 2007, 01:06 PM ...
By the way: I think I found a reason why I had so much noise.
I can't test that idea yet, as the mic is in use somewhere else at the moment.
But I found out the headphones volume was wide open for some reason.
I never filmed with the mic, as I thought the noise was terrible through the headphones.
But that might (?!) have been a reason.
Maybe if I would have filmed a few shots, it would have been better then I thought.
Right?
Thijo
What you are suggesting is an acoustic feedback loop, where the mic is picking up sound from the headphone. That is very possible. While cardioid have high rejection of sound from the rear, around 20 dB at 1000 Hz), line-gradient, hyper- and super-cardioid mics, which are typical shotgun mic patterns, have much less rejection of sound from the rear of the mic (maybe 10 dB at 1000 Hz) where typically the right ear head phone sits). Having the head phone level high and having the mic gain turned high could have allowed a feedback loop.
Daniel Lynn August 21st, 2007, 01:27 PM Don, let me know if this sounds like it's possible. I've been trying to find former posts about a similar problem and there's one from 2001 that you were actually contributing to.
The original post was this:
"Peter Sheppard
October 10th, 2001, 12:49 PM
I have been using the xl1 for over two years and am very happy with it except for one or two minor things that seemto have been fixed in the xl1s....However, I have found that when using external wired mikes with the canon XLR adapter, I get a whining ,high pitched sound that destroys a clean recording...this takes place only on battery power, not on AC, and only with the bigger batteries... The problem does not occur with the smallest canon batteries either... has anyone else had a similar problem. and if so , found a fix?"
I was using the biggest battery I had. I'm charging a smaller one now.
Now the big question:
I think it actually might have something to do with using non-Canon brand substitution batteries. Is that possible?
I have a dual charger/holder and when all my batteries are charges I'm going to try and the the XL1 from that and see if it helps. Unfortunately that might take a while. I'll keep you posted.
Don Palomaki August 21st, 2007, 01:35 PM And if you disconnect the right lead from the MA-100 with the right connected, does the left channel still squeal?
And i assume this is with nothing connected to the MA-100 inputs?
And no squeal if the MA100 is disconnected from the camcorder?
How are you powering the camcorder? You mention both a DC adapter and a battery, but not the AC adapter? Does battery or AC adapter make a difference?
Is the squeal steady or varying, and any idea what frequency the squeal is?
I presume you are monitoring the squeal with headphones. Is it still there (recorded to tape) if you disconnect the headphones?
Daniel Lynn August 21st, 2007, 01:57 PM One by one:
Yes, if I disconnect the right with the left still squeals.
Yes nothing was connected to the MA-100.
Correct, no squeal if I disconnect MA-100.
I don't have an AC adapter. I was powering it with a BP-945 "FOR CANON" (it's a generic brand). By DC adapter I meant the MA-100's adapter.
The squeal is steady. I don't know what frequency it is.
I was monitoring it with headphones, but I was also running my camera straight to my laptop and monitoring with quicktime pro.
Don Palomaki August 22nd, 2007, 07:04 AM Can you record other sources connected directly to the Audio1 inputs without squeal?
Can you try it with a different battery? Do you still get the squeal?
If so, and if the squeal records to tape with head phones disconnected, you may well have a defective MA-100. Quite possibly an internal short between the input and output. The MA-100 contains active circuits that provide about 6 db gain per channel, so it could go into oscillation on its own.
If you have some technician skills, you could test the MA-100 off the camcorder by connecting a +5 volt DC source to the tip of the power lead, and DC ground to the shield (NOT the tip) of one of the RCA plugs, and look for a signal at the RCA outputs.
Daniel Lynn August 22nd, 2007, 02:59 PM Update:
I've tried three different batteries, and yes other things input fine into the audio 1. Something I just noticed as I was messing around with it. If I let it power down completely, then power it back up, through monitoring and testing I discovered that at first the sound is fine, then the squeal occurs and builds upon itself until it's steady. This sound like an oscillation to me. I'm sending it back to B&H asap. Thanks for the help. I'll post a follow up when I receive a new MA-100.
Don Palomaki August 23rd, 2007, 07:10 AM Builds up over time - hmmmm, sounds like defective component in the MA100, possibly a bad capacitor or open circuit trace.
Sending it back sounds like the right thing to do.
Daniel Lynn August 23rd, 2007, 08:29 AM Don,
If issued an exchange for the MA-100 through B&H, but if that doesn't work and it's my cameras DC socket that's the problem, do you know of any other comparable substitutes for the MA-100. I was looking at the Beachtek DXA-4P or the Beachtek DXA-6 with phantom power. I'm skeptical, however as to how long the DXA-6 lasts with just a 9volt battery. Are there any other decent adapters? Hopefully the new MA-100 works just fine.
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