Wow, if the onboard mic sounded better than the desk (mixer or board to us Yanks) something must have been amiss. If you were located in the back of the room (usual placement for FOH sound reinforcement systems, the onboard mic would sound like an echo chamber with lots of ambient noise. I record off the board whenever I can, and simply unplug the MA100 and put the mix right into those RCAs on the back of the cam, set to Audio !, which calls for line level. BTW, if it is a mono mix, you really only need to record one track (go into one input, your choice left or right) and center it in your edit later.

I didn't even realize there was a forum dedicated to XL1 audio lol. I posted this in the Now Hear This forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18715

If anyone could help me, I would appreciate it.

A common issue/question. The ME66 is a mono mic so the audio will be in the left or right channel only depending on how you connected it to the MA100. Some folks use "Y" cable to feed audio to both channels, others mix/pan the audio in post.

Out of the box the XL1 Audio 1 input defaults to consumer line level (-11 dBV). From the menu, set the Audio 1 input level to MIC or MIC ATT, MIC ATT may work OK for the ME66 under typical circumstances due to its high output level. Those settings have a sensitivity of -55 and -35 dBV for MIC level sources.

Is that on an in camera menu? Can I reach it on any setting. I've been through them a few times and havn't come across them. If you could tell me how to get to them, it would be very helpfull. Thanks.

edit: I found it. Thank you for your help.

second edit: Upon testing it this morning and actually seeing it work, a feeling of warmth passed over me :-) Thank you so much. I am new to off camera sound, and pretty new to the camera, and just got all these new accessories, so I was having trouble. Thank you very much.

Happy Holidays.

What are the three screws on the top of the MA-200 used for? I am sure something can mount there but what?

The three screws are used to attach a metal plate ( which is provided with the MA-100/MA-200). With this plate, you can mount either the Canon CH-910 dual Battery Holder or a wireless microphone receiver.

Hope this help,

is apparantly that metal plate which the ma-100 came with dosent come in all the boxes for the ma-200. I didnt get mine but attatched my anton bauer plate there.

If you look at the picture of the ma-100, since you apparantly didnt get one either you will see a picture of the plate. Having both is nice you should see if canon will sell that part then you have mounting for a battery holder and wireless with both plates the ma-100 on the three screw, and the pull out bars.

m

Good Point sir
I have looked at this 3 screw anomoly and wondered "What is that for?" but then other things came into my head. It does look like a mounting place but there is nothing that came with the MA200 that fits the bill. Whatever it is it must be small as when the extender bars are closed there is not that much head room for said mountable "whatever it is" oblect


Regards

Jed

CUL

Thanks for the replies. My MA-200 did not come with a metal plate for attaching there. It did come with a place that mounts on the slide out bracket and from the instruction the CH-910 dual battery holder attaches but I have a wireless receiver there instead. I was wonder if there was a bracked to support a battery at the three screw location. Will give Canon a call.

Thanks

Just got off the phone with Canon Technical support and they don't know what mounts there either. I found a close up of the MA-100 plate and it has the three screw holes so it appears if you could get the plate alone you could have a second mount as suggested earlier.

the ma-100 plate will definately fit there. you can mount your battery or wireless there. I use mine with the AB plate mounts the same way and then pull out the bars a touch to fit the wireless on those.

It works quite nice that way and gives you much better balance on the shoulder. So if you can get the ma-100 top plate with the mounting bars on it (these should be included basically the same plates with knobs that your ma-200 pull out bars has) its well worth the time and you can easily have both items with no duct tape involved :O

Hope this helps, Im not sure if Ive described it well enough in either of my posts.

M

Ok, imagine this, a XL1s without a MA-100 or Ma-200. On the back of the camera, there are RCA inputs. If I want to plug in a XLR input, why can's I just get a RCA to XLR adapter and plug that in? I realize the MA-100 is a nice thing to have and all, but it's $ I don't have. Is there something it does other than simply convert?
btw, there may be multiple types of inputs at different moments in this camera's life. Line level inputs, dynamic mic inputs, powered mic inputs, etc.
Thanks

Actually, the MA-100 (and 200) do more than just convert the connections to RCA. It's an active unit and some amplification takes place. For that reason, I never use it with line level signals -- it will overdrive in an instant. Works OK for mics though, and provides a good shoulder rest. It does not provide phantom power.

There are lots of other options, though. An XLR to RCA adapter (for short runs), the Beachtek units, etc. I've frequently gone directly into the RCA jacks from my Mackie mixer.

You have to decide what your needs are, and what best fits the situation. The beauty of the XL-1 is the myriad of ways that you can configure it. The "right" way is the one that works best for you. Just experiment before your actual shoot, to check for levels, hum, etc.

Hi,

is there any differences on size between these two models?
Actually I don't need all of those four xlr's but I'd still buy MA-200 if it's bigger and better for shoulder-shooting.

There is a fairly substantial difference in the size of the XLR adapter housing which forms the shoulder support. Most folks seem to prefer the MA-200 as it provides a larger footprint for resting on your shoulder.

See this image of an MA-200 (http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/images/xl1s-b.jpg).

See this image of an MA-100 (http://www.dvinfo.net/media/hurd/xl1xlrj.jpg).

Hope this helps,

Has anyone had success using the Canon Shoulder Mount AND incorporating all four audio channels?

Many people. I've shot using the standard stereo mic on Audiio1 channels, and a shotgun and wireless on the Audio2 channels. Works like a champ.

Are you having a problem? The problem most folks run into is in setup. You have to select 4-channel mode from the menu, and you have to set the audio level (mic, mic att, consumer line) for the Audio 2 channels from the menu. However, the manual/agc selection and gain controls are behind the door.

Okay,

I've seen this question posed several times, but the comments never directly answer the question. Someone always offers a workable solution - which is great - but it didn't answer the question.

Can I use the XL-1 factory mounted mic AND a lav connected to an MA-100 and hear sound from both mics at the same time?

I say NO. In my experience, whenever I engage the lav through the MA-100, it knocks out the factory mic.

Here's what I'm doing.

1. I turn the XL-1 on.
2. I set Audio Mode to 12 bit ST-1,2
* AUDIO 1 IN ---
*Audio Input Select switch set to "MIC"

** I can hear sound coming into my headphones from the factory mic.

Now...

* My Azden 500UDR receiver is connected to the AUDIO 2 RCA jacks in the XL-1 handle.

3. I scroll down to THE AUDIO 2 menu selection. I enter the selection > Choose MIC.

** I can hear the lav in my earphones, but the factory Mic is disabled.

This happens everytime.

If your suggestion is to rewire the stereo plug into the open MA-100 connection - fine - I can live with that.

But the question remains, is it possible to use the factory mic and an external mic (lav) at the same time without having to rewire or buy another adapter.

I say No.

If your answer is yes. How do you set it up?

Thanks!

> Can I use the XL-1 factory mounted mic AND a lav connected to an MA-100 and hear sound from both mics at the same time?

Yes. Provide you use the correct setup for the XL1.

Factory mic connected to the mic input jack.
Lav connectd to Audio2 input jack.
Audio1 switch (behind door) set to MIC or MIC ATT (depending on how loud the venue is)
Audio Mode (on menu) set to 12-bit ST-1,2
Audio 2 Input (from menu) set to the output level of the lav.
Set Audio Monitor to meter/monitor the audio of interest; i.e., ST-1, ST-2, or ST-1,2 Mixed. Per the manual it takes a few seconds for the change to take effect in the headphone output.
Select AGC or manual audio level modes and adjust levels

> If your suggestion is to rewire the stereo plug into the open MA-100 connection - fine - I can live with that.

Only necessary if you want to use the factory mic in combination with other mics in 16-bit (2 chanels) mode.

Thanks, Don.

The key missing from all other responses is the audio monitor button. If someone performs all of the menu setup items, but fails to properly engage the audio monitor to listen to both channels, the assumed result iks that the lav has just knocked out the factory mic.

I'm sure there are many others who will benefit from this often overlooked, but important piece of information.

I found a number of threads relating to low audio issues associated with the MA-100 -- I am having the same problem. Using Sony ECM-44B lav and Sure SM58 handheld, I am down about 6db when using AGC. The onboard mike works just fine, peaking at about 12 - the MA-100 inputs peak at 20. Controls set to Audio 1 - 16 bit and menu set to audio 1- mike. Anyone found a resolution or hint to the cause of the problem? Help appreciated.

I am having low audio problems on my XL1s. Done a lot of testing, here's the setup and what I've found.

1. I'm using the MA-100. The power is plugged into the camera socket on the MA-100, and audio's on the MA-100 are going to Audio1. Onboard mic is removed.

2. I'm feeding the SGM-1x shotgun directly into the MA-100 (usually Left channel) via XLR cable.

3. I also use a Samson wireless unit. It is plugged into the other channel (Right) via XLR. This unit sounds fine.

4. My camera settings - I'm in 16bit mode, and Audio1 is set to MIC level. (I've tried MIC ATT and LINE, but as expected this makes the audio level even lower out of the shotgun).

5. Audio is set to manual on Audio 1, balance is centered, and level is maxed out.

6. The mic is turned on, has fresh batteries.

7. I actually have TWO of these SGM-1x mics, both have the same problem. When I plug one of these mics into my GL2 directly, level is just fine (and in manual, can easily be clipped if turned up too high).

8. Using this configuration, I'm able to get normal audio levels out of the wireless, but the shotgun remains low. I've tried different XLR cables, I've tried reversing the XLR inputs from L to R (to see if maybe one channel was bad on the MA-100). Same problem follows the shotgun.

9. Level gets up to 12, but only when the audio is loud or the mic is spoken directly into. It will clip, but only when thumped loud. Otherwise, spoken audio at 20 ft. or so is too low to be of use, but I get fine results at the same distance and same subject when I put the mic on my GL2.

10. I've tried shifting the L/R balance on the camera to amplify the channel of the shotgun - this helps a bit, but not much (plus lowers the level of the wireless on the other channel).

11. This happens regardless of whether or not the wireless is plugged into the MA-100.


That's lots of details. Been hunting this down for a couple months, but it's got me stumped. Any ideas? Please???

Thanks!
-Kevin

Confirm the setup and setting again in more detail. Are you using AGC in all cases? IS the Input sensitivity set to MIC as opposed to MIC ATT at the emnu for the Audio1 Jack and with the switch when using the Canon mic?

Try manual and see if you get different results. Be aware that t the sensitivity of the standard mic may not be the same as the SM58 or ECM-44B, and this can give different results.

What happens if you plug the SGM-1x directly into the XL1? avoiding the MA-100?

Are you using the power socket at the back of the XL1 by the Audio1 and video connectors?

I think the problem is that the mikes just don't provide a high enough level (even with the MA-100 6db boost) for the AGC to peak at -12. I was hoping to find out if anyone else using the MA-100 with similiar mikes has had a low audio issue when using AGC so I would know if I have a problem with the camera, MA-100 or no problem.

Since I do peak at -12 with the onboard mike, I plan to get an adapter - XLR to mini, plug in to the onboard mini recepticle and see where I peak. If it is -20, I will know that the MA-100 and AGC are working as intended.

I can boost the audio manually and peak at -12 but the noise increase is substantial. After contacting BeachTek, it appears that they have a product that will increase S/N with built in limiting, control L and R channel and is much quieter than the Canon/MA-100. One of the shortcomings of not using a 3rd party product for audio is the inability to separately control L/R when using 16 Bit audio. But the products are an additional cost - and right now I am hoping to avoid that - I'll let you know what I find out with the miniplug test. Thanks for your input.

See my earlier post in this section titled low audio MA-100. I too have been fustrated trying to find out what is going on. It is difficult to know if there is a problem or not since I haven't heard back from anyone with an MA-100. Your issue however, does sound exactly like the one I am experiencing. I tried plugging into the oncamera mini jack to see if I was still getting the same loss characteristics - but the test was inconclusive - maybe 3db of loss vs the 6db of loss when going through the MA-100. I still need to get an adapter to try plugging directly into the RCA jacks -will do that tomorrow.

The MA-100 apparently eats 6db in the conversion since the spec's say it is adding 6db of gain (and associated noise). The solution might be a BeachTek DXA-8 but it lists at almost $400. It would be able to boost the signal and provide better S/N. Let me know if you resolve your problem. Good luck.

Spoken audio at 20 feet from the mic, any mic short of a large parabolic, will be low, unless the mic has a lot of internal gain. Condensor shotgun mics do have internal amplifiers with different amounts of gain dsepending onthe brand and model. Keep in mind that shotgun mics are not telescopic, they just reject sound fron the sides and rear.

FWIW, the Azden mic has a substantially higher internal impedance (~680 ohms per their web site) than other quality shotgun mics. Thus even for the same open circuit output sensitivity it will have lower net output into the MA100 than a mic with an impedance of, say 200 ohms which is typicla of high quality shotguns.

The input impedance of the MA100 is ~600 ohms

I tested all audio inputs with an ecm 44B - it is a bit better when plugging into the mini plug used for the on board mic but still down about 3db.

The solution I ended up with is using a wireless Mic (Sony UWP) which provides lots of level to work with. Apparently the condensor mic just doesn't provide enough for my XL1 without using a preamp of some sort. The Sony works great and I don't have to jack up my on camera level much to get the level I need - keeping the camera amp "noise" to a minimum.

Just curious, has anyone had any luck using a wired lav mic without going through an active mixer or other type of preamp? If so, what kind are you using?

FWIW, the SM58 and SCM-44B have sensitivities on the order of -54 dBv/PA (rather loud speach), while shotguns like the AT-897 and Senn MKE300 are about12 dB more sensitive, and the ME66 about 25 dB more senstitive.

Most wireless mic receivers also have a rather high output level relative to mics like he SM58.

The battery holder on my XL1 has the tips of the guides broke off on the left side (looking at it) on both the top and bottom. Don't exactly know how this happened. The battery stays in place but loosely thus causing it to intermittantly turn off and on the camera. This is especially a problem when hand holding.

Anyone ever have this happen to them and how did they fix it?

Then I go to hook up a CH-910 to the MA100 for the first time but after much poking around and several phone calls I realize I am missing the belt clip which fits between the two.

Anybody have another easy homemade solution to adhering the CH-910 to the MA100 until the $3.50 back-ordered item from Canon arrives??

Many thanks in advance.

Velcro works pretty well. Can be a pain to remove though once you get the replacement in. No idea about the battery problem though. Sounds like a toughie.

Well, I got a nice surprise today. The back-ordered belt clip from Canon which was supposed to available in mid-July arrived today. One day after I placed the order!

I hope all of my future Canon orders get here that quick.

Hi,
One of the students in school brought in one of our XL1's
when they couldn't record sound.

I've tested it and the MA100 is not outputting
any signal.

My question is
a) Is it possible to take apart the MA100?
I've removed all the screws but it still doesn't come apart.
b) If it is possible to access the insides, would it be possible to
repair whatever's broken/come loose?

It does come apart, I've done it. You have to separate it from the pad as well. Not much that is user repairable inside, it is mostly surface mounted components, It may be that a wire has come loose.

Thanks Don.. = )

I know this has been previously discussed but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Is there any possibilty of repairing the "tab' on the MA 100 that slips into the back of the XL1? I took the screw out thinking the part was replaceable but it seems as if the entire MA 100 must be replaced if this piece breaks. Please, say it ain't so!!

Next question is how do you guys deal with the MA 100 when it's loaded down with the dual battery rig and a wireless transmitter? My mistake was when I had the Nebtek 5" monitor on an offset off the hotshoe. It became top heavy and unstable. So when I placed the XL down on a surface it rolled and broke off the MA 100 tab. I was way too tired from many days of hand held as well.

Any ideas on fabricating a metal piece to replace the plastic tab?

Is the MA 200 a more robust, sturdy design in that area??

Many thanks!

I usually mount it on a tripod when I set it down.

I would have done that but it was in my car resting on the seat when it tumbled over. A definite result of overtiredness and stupidity.

I've not broken one before but suggested a repair to someone who did, and he reported it to work nicely.

-- Glue the broken piece with Crazy Glue (super glue or cyanoacrylate). Note that Crazy Glue says "instant" but the bond actually takes time to come to full strength.
-- After the glue sets for an hour, carefully use a Dremel tool to hollow out the tab and the adjacent MA-100 body. Have the hollowed-out "trench" extend about a half-inch or more along the MA-100 body. Doesn't have to be too deep. The trench shouldn't be too smooth as you want the roughened surface available to be gripped by the epoxy glue.
-- Drop-in a roughened piece of steel about 1/16" thick into the hollowed-out trench. This will take the stress normally borne by the plastic tab. If you can't find an appropriate strip of steel, you can substitute three or four pieces of high-carbon piano wire about 1/16" thick.
-- Encase the steel with slow-set epoxy, the kind that takes 24 hours to cure. Don't use the five-minute type as it's too soft. You want something that will cure hard.

You should end up with a repair that has the same shape as the original plastic tab but has a steel core surrounded by very tough epoxy. Take your time and work carefully with the dremel to avoid gouging the MA-100 or breaking the piece you're trying to fix.

Good luck!
Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

Did you say you have mic set for audio 1 in the menu?
I only have luck setting it to "line" in the menu and then mic under the door.
smitty

Jack:
What is your setup? To use the Audio1 jacks as the recording input the AUDIO1/MIC Input select switch behind the door must be set to AUDIO 1, and the corresponding menu item set to the level appropriate to your source.

Sorry I accidently reversed the two. Must have been sleep surfing
Thanks for catching that

In case anyone is interested to try repairing your MA100,
Yeah you have to seperate the pad.
And it's possible to repair it yourself, if the wiring's the problem.
I've just fixed an MA100 which had a dodgy cable.
replaced the cable, good as new.

How about the infamous broken tab dilemma? Can that be easily fixed with disassembly??

I think there's a thread about the infamous tab problem.

I've apparently got one dead lead on my MA 100. When I attach the wireless mic to the right (red) side, it inputs fine. But it doesn't input (or output) from the left (white) side. I unscrewed the cover on the white plug and it looks fine. Any ideas?

I've seen about one other post on a similar problem. Cables can fail over time as they are flexed. You may have a bad lead or poor connection somewhere inside the MA100. A good technician should be able to check this for you.

I am settiing up the ma100 i want to use both channels on ma100 and also the onboard mic ..How do i set up the xl1s..

thanks

You will need to use 4-channel mode (32kHz sample rate, 12-bit samples). User manual has details on setting this up.

Connect the MA-100 to the Audio 2 inputs (on the side of the handle).

Practice to get it down right before you go to to an important shoot.

thanks that will help