Do you have the Audio1 In set for MIC level? That is the most common cause of the situation you report. You have to make the selection from the menu in addition to selecting Audio 1 from on the switch behind the door. The XL1 defaults to line level input until changed. If using 12-bit, 4-channel mode, the menu selection applies to Audio 2 In levels too.

not sure how but my ma-100 goes bad just before i'm about to mic up our guest speaker...very strange at first i thought it was the cam, but a quick audio check and everything worked..has anyone had a ma-100 go bad on them...basically the left channel has no audio...

is this thing under warrenty (i had this unit less then a year)?? well my first call into canon tomorrow if anyon ehas any advice or tips, very welcomed

First report of bad MA-100 I've read. If I had to make a guess, my first guess woud be the audio cable RCA plug for the left channel.

fixed it myself, turned out to be bad soildering on canon's part as apposed to the right channel that was done properly, i just re-soildered it the entire process took 5 min...

For some I can't get audio from my microphone going through the MA-100 to the XL1. I'm not sure why. I just rented it to do a quick project and I'm on a tight schedule. If someone could just give me a step by step guide to hooking it up that would be great. Thanks.

How are you hooking up the audio? Are you using the included mic or are you using an external mic? Any adapters for XLR connectors or balanced audio? Directions are included in the manual that can be down loaded here http://www.canondv.com/downloads/manuals.html I would be happy to walk you through the whole audio set-up, but to save time, provide the necessary details of your camera set-up.

Jeff

As Jeff notes, there are several options for audio and use of the MA-100 with the XL1. This summary assumes the obly MIC is the external mics connected via the MA-100, and that you are not using the standad Canon stereo mic.

Connect the MA-100 RCA cords to the left and right audio 1 jacks (red and white) on the back of the body behind the hinged door next to the video output jack (not the Audio 2 jacks on the side of the handle).

Connect the MA-100 power (the 2.5mm sub mini phone plug) to the corresponding jack between the video and audio jacks on the back of the body.

Open the left side door and and set the MIC/Audio 1 input select to Audio 1. Set the Rec Level to A or M depending on whet6her you want AGC or manual gain mode.

Open the sliding door that is forward of the power/mode control dial to access the menu controls. Set the audio mode (probably to 16-bit), and then set the the Audio 1 input level range (most likely MIC or MIC ATT. (NOte that ithe MIC/Audio 1 switch must be set to Audio 1 to set the Audio 1 input in the menu)

Set the Audio monitor is set to the mode you are using (e.g., St 1). Mode is displayed on the meter.)

Connect earphones to the (green) phone jack.

Additionally, if you are using microphones that require phantom power (fairly common), the MA-100 does not supply this. You'll need to run them thru a phantom module.

At the last shoot, we used a pin mic XLR conector, used a RCA->XLR adaptor (one piece adaptor that converts one xlr-> RCA. costed $5apiece) pluged in the Stereo 2 L and R channel.
Almost had a heart attack when I found out, my editting environment (Canopus Raptor + Premeire nor Final cut pro)(I don't understand. Why don't NLE software support 4ch. audio? Isn't 4ch audio supposed to be comon DV format?) did not support 4 channel audio. We did pull it off, but my college had to go through alot of mess.
Now I know NOT to use 4ch. audio in our editing environment at least.

So I figure I go get a adaptor that would converts XLR-> minijack. But I am aware of these nifty gadgets MA-100/MA-200 or the Beachtec DXA-4S.

Obviously the MA-100/200 has its advantage as a shoulder pad, and the beachtek is not a shoulder pad, but has audio level dials. Audio wise, are these gadgets a BIG difference from the simple adaptor just thinking of audio quality?
Has anyone used both canon and beachtek? It would be great if you can give me some advice on what to buy.

I am sure someone has brought this issue up. I tried to search the site, but wasn't able to find much.

Sorry didn't have enough time to make this a short email.!
takeshi

For 4-track try using Scenalyzer. Info on Scenalyzer is at http://www.scenalyzer.com.

Happy Holidays,

Some capture systems do support 4-track, but most camcorders do not do 4-track just naturally, so many editors do not support it. The Dazzle-Fast DV.now family also supports 4-channel capture.

Alternatively you can also capture the Audio 2 channels usinganan analog audio card and sync in post. Works but adds a couple steps.

The MA-100/200 works well as long as you avoid line-level sources, and they provide some gain. Some folks (mainly in the GL1 community) have complained about the Beachtek not doing well with some prosumer mics (e.g., the Azdens) due to its low input impedance and the somewhat higher characteristic impedance of the Azdens..

I am using a canopus Raptor, and I believe it uses a Canopus Codec. If I use a third party program will it capture in this codec?
Takeshi

The DV.now products capture the Audio 2 channels to individual .WAV files. Not sure about other products that do 4-channel capture.

I recently bought a shotgun mic with XLR connection. I also have an Evolution series wireless (which I really like). I am trying to set my XL1s just like the ENG cameras I have used so many years in the news biz. I have hooked both my shotgun and wireless directly into my MA-100. I understand that I may be sacrificing sound quality by going from 16bit to 12bit. Also, is it true that I cannot individually control the sound input of each channel (shotgun or wireless)? My main concern is to be able to control these inputs seperately-which I don't think can be done. If anyone has this setup (shotgun and wireless--to--MA100) please tell me the best way to get the best audio I can. Thanks

Kelly...

Stick to 16-bit audio. You'll have fewer problems in the long run (potential audio sync problems with some NLE systems).

You should be able to balance the wireless' level with that of the shotgun. I generally set my camera's levels manually and make sure my wireless input is adusted appropriately to get enough level yet not so much as to cause any distortion.

There's a balance control available just aft of the main level control. You can use this to fine tune the balance if necessary. I generally avoid it and fine tune in post.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

12-bit sound wil hve somewhat limited freqeinc response (around 15 kHz) and uses some compressionto retain dynamic range. 16-bit sound is better, but mode will not hear the difference with typical progrm material.

The Audio 1 manual gain adjustment is a ganged level control and a balance control (not the most convenient way to do it but it works). The audio 2 manual gain adjustmens are a level control for each inout channel.

Thanks guys, so the only way to get both channels with 16bit audio is to do what? Do I need to plug my wireless into the jack on the handle and the shotgun I bought with XLR inputs into the MA-100? Or can I plug both into the MA-100 yet I will only have one level control for both channels (which is OK if that is what I have to do to retain 16bit audio). Still a little confused.

External mike and 5m XLR cable work fine, and a signal is received at my NLE system's input mixer, but nothing gets through my MA100.

I have the 6V power lead plugged in, camera battery charged and camera ON.

I have taken the MA100 apart (LOTS of screws) but there is nothing obviously wrong inside.

I expect I'm missing something simple and even stupid, but don't know what.

Any ideas will be gratefully received.

With regards,

Roddy

Check your switches and make sure they are set correctly. The switch behind the white door should be set to Audio 1 (not Mic or ATT). On the internal menu, seen in the view finder, Audio 1 in should me set to Mic.

Does the mic require phantom power? If so the MA-100 does not supply phantom power. You will need to use an external adapter to supply power. Does you mic require an internal battery? have you replaced the mic battery with a known good battery?

You can connect both the the MA100. YOur wireless may need an XLR adapter. It would make life a bit easier if they both have about the same output level. Use the balance control and level controls to adjust manual record level.

Note that if using AGC, loud sound in one may cause the level to drop in both channels. just try to match theri output levels.

Note that some wireless systems have significantly higher output level than some shotgun mics.

Many thanks for the prompt reply. I think I have had the switches set correctly, I'll try again, the microphone (battery-powered) does give a signal direct to a mixer, but when I connect to the mixer through the MA100 (powered from the camera - a cluttered desktop) I get nothing. Odd, and a nuisance!

On simple (if not obvious) things. The Audio 1 input sensitivity is selected from the menu. It defaults to line level from the factory. Also, the MA-100 connects to the input jacks at the back of the handle by the MA-100's power jack, (The Audio 2 RCA jacks in the side of the handle are used for 12-bit/4-channel input mode.)

For other who might consider it, Nothing user-serviceable or ajdustable inside the MA-100.

Thanks Don,
I need to do a little experimenting. Thanks for the advice.

It should speak for itself, do I need 4 channels XLR sound inputs or will 2 suffice? But apart from this, is there another reason to choose the 200 over the 100? I'll be doing 1- or 2-person reportages with a lav and the on-camera mike sound, I guess the 100 will do...

Thanks!

Dan.

If you use all four on the MA200 you can record 2 mics at 16bit or record on 4 mics but only in 12bit on all 4 channels. Where as with MA100 you have only 2 channels so you can record two mics at 16bit. So If you are only just going to use 2 mics at 16bit then MA100 should suffice.

However I use the MA200 so I can have two main mics to camera for 16bit. And two other 'supporting' mics to minidisc so I can add them later in post if I need to add a bit more oomph to soundtrack, so that way I still keep 16bit. But some here have said they use 4 mics on 12bit and find it OK. Guess it depends on the quality of your sound source mics to how well or how bad this sounds. The MA200 does cost a bit more...but I thought it gives me the option if I ever need to run 4 mics. If I don't well at least the option is there.

... plus the MA-200 has a better shoulder rest ...

I'm sorry to start another thread about setting up this kind of set-up but I've read through them, read pages 51-53 of the manual many times and am still having a problem.

Here goes.

I have the MA-100 installed and connected to it is a powered sound mixer box which has a Sennheiser MKH416 attached to it.

I connect it to the two connectors on the MA-100 and we're off and running.

VCR settings are set to 12 1, 2. Each AUDIO is set to MIC.

If the switch is set to AUDIO 1, I can hear through the Senn no problems and it's fine. (Audio Monitor set to Stereo 1)

If the switch is set to Mic or ATT then I can hear through the on-board canon mic fine. (audio monitor - stereo 1)

In either case I hear nothing on Stereo 2 when I change the monitor to it or have it be the split audio monitor.

I've tried every variation on this I can think of and I'm totally and absolutely stumped.

I've got a shoot tonight that in some ways it won't matter that much but I'd love to have both going for one part of the shoot.

I'm sure I missed something but even after searching and reading everything I could I can't find it.

Again, sorry to open a new thread on this but I'm totally stumped.

Help me, Obi Wan Kanobi... you are my only hope.

thanks in advance.

Sounds like you have most of it right. From the menu mode have you set the it to 12 bit audio and the audio source to Audio 2?

-----
From the menu mode have you set the it to 12 bit audio and the audio source to Audio 2?
-------

In the menu screen under VCR set-up.

Audio Mode is set to 12 st 1, 2

Under that there are two selections:

Audio 1 : ---- (lined out if audio one switch is set to MIC or ATT)

Audio 2: which is set to Mic -- BUT I've tried it set to line and Mic ATT and both have the same results.


Are you talking about another setting?

Are the audio ouput plugs (RCA) of the MA100 plugged into the Audio 2 jacks on the side of the handle?

-------
Are the audio ouput plugs (RCA) of the MA100 plugged into the Audio 2 jacks on the side of the handle?
--------


Yes, and when I get signal from the XLR mic I get both channels and perfect sound.

Hmmmm. Cannot quit visualize your full setup. Could you repeat it is greater detaiil as to what is connected where, and the various switch and menu settings. Esp. what iws connected to audio 2, what is connected to audio 1, to the mic hack, and to the MA100.

Okay.

Equipment:

Camera:
XL1S.
Canon on board stereo microphone plugged into regular mini-jack

MA-100 installed. Jacks are plugged into RCA jacks on handle and third connector is plugged in.

External Microphone:
powered sound mixer box which has a Sennheiser MKH416 attached to it. Left and right XLR mic outputs from box

---------------------

Setup

I have not changed anything about how the Canon Mic which comes with all XL1S's. It is plugged into the mini-jacks.

The Sennheiser outputs are plugged into the 2 XLR jacks on the MA-100.


Menu Setup

Under VCR SET-UP

AUDIO MODE: 12 bit ST 1, 2

AUDIO 1 IN: MIC
AUDIO 2 IN: MIC


----------------

As I said above if the AUDIO 1 switch is set to AUDIO 1, I can hear through the Sennheiser microphone with no problems (both left and right channels) and it's perfect sound. This shows that the MA-100 and the Senn mic set-up are working fine (Audio Monitor set to Stereo 1)

If the switch is set to Mic or ATT then I can hear through the on-board canon mic fine. (audio monitor - stereo 1)

In either case I hear nothing on Audio 2 when I change the monitor to Stereo 2 or have it be the Split Audio monitor.

I have tried all variations in the AUDIO 2 menu options (mic, Mic-ATT, Line) and get the same results.

I think that covers it all.

I'm not sure I understand you that wel about your set up. But on the menu for Stereo 2 - mic, att mic, line - they are to set for the input and relevant settings for those types of inputs, ie, LINE is different from Mic. But mic is just to say that the source is a mic - NOT to set it to onboard mic.

Are you using onboard mic in Stereo 1 and then externals on Stereo 2 ? Cos correct if I'm wrong but that is the only set up. If you try the other way round I dont think it will work cos the 3.5 jack is just Stereo 1 only (I believe). Just selecting Mic for stereo 2 on menu doesnt mean onboard mic, just A mic source.

I'm not sure I understand you that wel about your set up. But on the menu for Stereo 2 - mic, att mic, line - they are to set for the input and relevant settings for those types of inputs, ie, LINE is different from Mic. But mic is just to say that the source is a mic - NOT to set it to onboard mic.

Are you using onboard mic in Stereo 1 and then externals on Stereo 2 ? Cos correct if I'm wrong but that is the only set up. If you try the other way round I dont think it will work cos the 3.5 jack is just Stereo 1 only (I believe). Just selecting Mic for stereo 2 on menu doesnt mean onboard mic, just A mic source.


Okay.

What I want is to have sound being recorded from the on-board Canon Microphone plugged into the mini-jacks.

Okay?

I also want to have sound recorded (at the same time) from the Sennheiser Microphone that I have plugged into the MA-100 which is plugging into the Audio 2 RCA jacks on the back of the handle.

Okay?

I am not trying to get the onboard mic to record on any other channel but Stereo 1.

I want the external mic to record on Stereo 2.

I want to have the camera record the 4 channel stereo set-up just like in the XL1S manual pages 51-53.

What is wrong is that I am not getting any sound throughput on Audio 2 despite the Audio 2 settings being EXACTLY as they are saying in the manual.

In the manuals they say that you should set the setting for Audio 2 to MIC if you are having the audio 2 input coming from a device such as the MA-100 or MA-200.

You wrote: "I have plugged into the MA-100 which is plugging into the Audio 2 RCA jacks on the back of the handle. "

From the bahavior you describe and your note above, sounds to me like you have the MA100 connected to the Audio 1 input, which is on the back of the handle near the video output jacks (see page 11 of the manual).

The Audio 2 input is on the side of the handle, see page 10 of the manual, not the back, under a rubber cover that may be marked "Audio 2".

UUUUGGGGGGGG ------


Don, I bow before your genius....



My fault was following the directions included in with the MA-100 which obviously were for the XL1 unit.


Gratitude abounds in your direction !!!!


I don't think I even noticed that jack on the side.

Yes, I now look in the XL1S manual and see the jacks shown in plain sight.

You da' man, Don.

FWIW: The Audio RCA jack locations are the same on the XL1. I suspect that the MA-100 shows the Audio 1 conection beacuse that is the more common configuration.

Glad to see you have finally got it figured out. You had me stumped, until the Eagle Eye Don spotted the BACK of handle.
I guessed you was trying to put different mic sources through Audio 1. Nice to see you have found audio 2.

So I guess you should have no problems, until you come to try and capture 4 tracks!

LOL! actually, it worked out fine that we didn't have 4 tracks...

We were hired to shoot part of a documentary which covered the art gallery opening of an artist. We did pre-opening interviews and we shot during the opening.

The Sennheiser we used did a great job of capturing the surrounding sound and the subject that was talking since we weren't far from them.

I can now say that I have a better understanding of the setting up of the Audio 1 and 2 systems of the XL1S then I ever thought possible.

Yes, Eagle Eye Don is the man of the hour. I hope his mom gives him an extra big slice of cake for desert all week long!

I would like to see someone add that little detail about where the AUDIO 2 jacks are located on the XL1 and XL1S to the pages here that have the instructions on how to set-up the sound in the menus and such.

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Burnfield :
I would like to see someone add that little detail about where the AUDIO 2 jacks are located on the XL1 and XL1S to the pages here that have the instructions on how to set-up the sound in the menus and such. -->>>

Kevin, detailed audio configurations are explained on this site. Take a look here http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles.php#audio

Thanks Ed.

My brain is shot this week... we shot interviews till 2am last night.



That's my story--- I'm sticking with it.

I just bought an MA-100 second hand, and don't have any documentation for it. I've searched the web but can't find any; I'm not sure if any documentation for the MA-100 even exists...

My question though is this: I noticed a power cable that connects from the MA-100 into the back of the XL1-s; what exactly is this for? Does this provide phantom power to the XLR connectors, or does it serve some other purpose?

Regards,

-Steve Vandergriff

The power cable plugs in to the 5 VDC jack on the back of the handle. it provides power for the electronics in the MA-100. It must be plugged in for the MA-100 to work. Also, the MA-100 must be pluggerd in to the RCA audio jacks.

The MA-100 does NOT provide phantom power for a microphone.

Also, the MA-100 should be limited to MIC level inputs. It starts to clip at around -10 dBV inpout signal. DO NOT use it with line level signals.

Can I just say that I completely agree that you cant really use the MA100 for a line level signal.

I tried this recently and needless to say the sound is not really usable.

I admit that I have pretty much given up on recording to the XL1 and use a DAT to record my sound.

Rob Castiglione

The last posting concerning the MA 100 prompts me to ask the following question.

Is it possible to record to the XL1 at all using a line level source and get broadcast quality sound? Is this just a problem for the MA100?

I now record to DAT and only use the camera as a guide track as suggested by Jay Rose in one of his excellent books (and eventually will buy one of those amazing nifty looking Sound Devices Hard Drives which is coming out soon).

Rob Castiglione

One can use an in-line attenuator to reduce line level signals to around -35 dBV and then use the MIC ATT setting. However, many mixers and wireless system do have MIC level output capability that works with the MA-100.

While not a prefessional DAT-quality record section, the XL1 audio is quite good (overall better that other camcorders in its price range) and easy to use - once one learns it. And it certainly can reduces the amount of gear one has to haul in the field.

It all depends on the details of the audio requirement for the shoot.

The MA-100 and MA-200 are intended for microphone inputs. The power supply is needed for the mic preamps in the MA-100/200. If you need to record line levels, bypass the MA-100/200 and input directly into the RCA inputs. I do this fairly often with good results. As always I monitor the audio levels to avoid peaks, using the built-in record level indicators.

Two options for line level input with the MA-100:

Use an inline attenuator to reduce the line level to around -35 dBV and use MIC ATT setting on the Audio 1 input. Shure and AT offer these devices as does Markertek. (Use MIC ATT setting for lower noise floor.)

Alternatively with line level output, you could use a balancd to unbalanced adapter then also can pad the signal down to about -10 dBV and connect directly to the Audio 1 (or Audio 2 for 12-bit recording) input. You can mount these barrel adapters on the MA-100. Markertek carries these products, as will most professional music/audio dealers.

"Broadcasty quality" is a nearly maningless term given that virtually anything can be broadcast - consider the average used car dealer ad on late night TV.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what's inside the MA-100 that requires power from the camera in the first place.

-Steve Vandergriff