I have actually found the zoom noise to be considerably lower with the XL2 than the XL1s. There is autofocus noise that I can hear when going handheld as the body is next to my ear, but it doesn't get picked up by the microphone. When I put it in manual focus, the noise stops.

Kevin

Thanks for your input Kevin.

My XL2 also makes the noise when in auto focus and stops in manual, although i did a few tests today with audio levels and in a relatively noisy outdoor environment where i may need to record ambient sound (birds tweeting, lawn mowers etc) with the onboard mic and it was clearly picking up the auto focus and zoom noises. I'm guessing mine may be faulty as i never had any problems with the XL1s and everyone seems to think the XL2 is quieter. I'll talk to the store i bought the camera from and then to Canon.

Its not such a big drama as a lot of the time I'll be using external microphones but i have been doing a fair bit of sport/car racing filming lately and believe that the zoom and auto focus noises will make the onboard mic useless.

If any one else has had this issue let me know.

Thanks again.

Hi There,

I assume that the 16x servo lens is better to purchase with the XL2? Is that true or not. I'm wondering if I should just go with the 20x lens that comes with the cam or get the 16x? Any advice?

Lucinda

If you do more handheld shooting, then stick with the 20x, as you will need its autofocus capability and image stabilisation. If you shoot primarily on a tripod, then the black 16x manual lens might be a better choice. Hope this helps,

What will you be shooting? Documentary, film production style, hand held?

I shoot a lot of feature/short films, industrials and music videos on the 16x. I'm on a tripod/dolly most of the time. I like knowing what my focal length and distance are, so that I can repeat settings.

Hi,

I'm really not sure at this point: Hand held versus tripod...it seems that I use both equally. I do fictional work, dramas and some artist documentaries. I guess my concern is that I read a post somewhere saying that the 20X isn't great in manual focus and that the 16X is. I wanted to get some feedback about that. Since I'm just starting out with this cam I thought I should go with the standard kit and add as I go along? any advice? thanks!

Haven't I read in this forum that if you change your focus from foreground to background with the 16X, that the frame of the image changes? And that the 20X doesn't suffer from this?

I can't remember the name of the phenomenon, but those posts made me lean toward the 20X. A lot of my style involves changing focus from one subject to another in the same frame and I don't want the size of my frame to change...just the focus.

I'm sure someone will chirp in with the name of the issue (something like focus creeping or follow or something like that) and then you can do a search on it.

Thanks,

Kelly

That's interesting Kelly. Have you any thoughts about the 3X wide angle lens? I've heard it's the most popular second lens to own. Certainly in small spaces it would be very useful.

Yes, the 16x breathes, meaning that as you rack focus from one distance to another, the angle of view changes slightly causing the lens to "zoom" a bit. A lot of zooms and some primes suffer from this phenomenon. Ironically, the 20x doesn't, but it's lack of mechanical focusing doesn't lend itself to rack focus. The focus marks have a tendency to change.

Breathing is not apparent if you are continuously following the subject. Higher priced optics have the problem corrected, but alas not for MiniDv and not the Canon 16X. Canon has some really nice optics for broadcast that are highly corrected and do not suffer this problem.

The 16x is still my main lens and I think it's great. Personal preference and shooting styles differ, so if you can, try renting, or going somewhere so you can play with the camera before buying. It's worth the trouble.

That's interesting Kelly. Have you any thoughts about the 3X wide angle lens? I've heard it's the most popular second lens to own. Certainly in small spaces it would be very useful.

Lucinda, you are probably not going to want to ask me. I won't actually own a XL2 for about a month or so. Everything I've learned has been on this board and others as I tried to figure out what camera to buy. I've basically lived on this site and others for the past few weeks.

As far as the 3X, I'd search this forum for that also. My style will always revolve around concentrating on DOF (depth of field). In that respect, I believe (but I'm not sure) that using the 3X will increase your DOF...something that I don't want. I believe may be an indirect effect as you can't do the same things you'd normally do to try to increase DOF when you have the 3X lens on. For instance, I don't think you would be zooming in as much with the 3X for obvious reasons.

Of course, you are right...in small spaces a 3X would be useful. And you probably aren't going to get a decently shallow DOF in a small space anyhow if you are trying to get a wide shot.

I love this site. It is a great resource. If you search for "3X" on this board, you'll probably pull in a lot of opinions that are much more informed than my own.

Thanks,

Kelly

I have had several people including a sales person tell me that the 3x is not very sharp on the XL2. Do a search and see.

Mark,

If you were to get a second lens for the cam, right now there's a good rebate for the 16x servo lens and the 3X wide angle, which would you g et? Also, doesn't the 20X have manual focusing as well as automatic? it says so in the info I've read....

Thanks for your advice.

Yes, I'm going to Pasadena this week to check out the cam, but I've used the XL1 so I feel pretty sure about this.

I'm just mulling about whether to get the second lens because of the rebate or just wait and see how I feel about the 20X when it comes in the mail.

This forum is the best!!!! thanks so much for all your help.

Lucinda,

I have both the 16x and the 20x. Yes, the 20x will manually focus, but this is accomplished through electric brushes that sense the focus, or zoom ring being moved and then electronically move the focus, or zoom. This is all well and good, but you cannot accurately hit focus marks over and over, they tend to drift. I posted a bunch about this a while back, around December and January. Do a search.

I do a lot of different stuff so I opted for both lenses. Depending on your needs, you may want to consider getting the body only kit, the 16x lens and rather than getting the 3x zoom, spend $650 on the .7 Century Wide Angle converter. It's a zoom through, so you can keep it on the 16x and use it throughout the entire zoom range of the lens. That's one possible route.

Yes, the 20x will manually focus, but this is accomplished through electric brushes that sense the focus, or zoom ring being moved and then electronically move the focus, or zoom. This is all well and good, but you cannot accurately hit focus marks over and over, they tend to drift.

I have been using the XL series of cameras from nearly day one. Here and elsewhere, I have read statements like the one above over and over again. All I can say is that I have learned how to "accuately hit focus marks over and over." It's not like it can't be done. Like any new instrument, it takes practice. Is it easier with the manual lens? Certainly! But the 20x will work, too!

Jay

The 20x has a push button that operates as a preset for either zoom or focus (chosen by a slider switch), so you can at least get one zoom or focus point set for a shot. Fingering the button while shooting takes practice -- definitely a different technique than with a mechanical lens. And I gotta say that for handheld shooting, the OIS does a fantastic job. The 16x and 20x are really targeted at very different uses; not really a matter of which one is "better" as each one has particular strengths.

I've also read many posts about the softness of the 3x. I have not actually checked it against a resolution chart as I've done with the 20x, but I do not at all find the 3x to appear soft in my shooting. It also has a pushbutton that allows for the "electronic rack focus" feature. The 3x does not have OIS (not really needed for such a wide lens) and the zoom cannot be "push buttoned" (no problem for a wide lens with only a 3x zoom range).

BTW, this push button focus feature is invaluable during manual shooting for both the 20x and 3x lenses -- just press the focus button for a moment and release. It'll put your subject spot on and you can go manual from there. I think this is essential for those of us using a stock color viewfinder, which can at times make a sharp manual focus challenging.

I have been using the XL series of cameras from nearly day one. Here and elsewhere, I have read statements like the one above over and over again. All I can say is that I have learned how to "accuately hit focus marks over and over." It's not like it can't be done. Like any new instrument, it takes practice. Is it easier with the manual lens? Certainly! But the 20x will work, too!

Jay

Geez, you make me sound like I'm retarded or something.

Believe me I've tried it. When you've got one day to shoot two days worth of stuff, twiddling the 20x just didn't work. For the way I work, the 16x works best for me. I don't want to have to think about focusing. The 16x and follow focus are more intuitive for how I work.

Thank-you all so much! I think probably for someone at my level of experience with this camcorder, which is base 0! I will, based on my own intuition and what I'm hearing from you all, is just get the standard kit and use the cam for awhile afterwhich I'll know better which lens to purchase. My mind is swimming with, "should I get the 3wide angle, the 16x, I hear pros and cons about everything, so I guess I'll just wait and see. I guess I was toying with the idea of getting the 16x as well because of the rebate that's on thru much of June. Seems like a good deal and I may still do it. Ah, indecision! Isn't it interesting when we really know what we're doing and what are needs are we have no problem with these sorts of things. But, all the info you're giving is very helpful indeed! thanks again. This is the best forum I've ever been to!

Lucinda

I guess I was toying with the idea of getting the 16x as well because of the rebate that's on thru much of June. Seems like a good deal and I may still do it.

Does the purchase of either the 3x or 16x have to occur at the same time as the purchase of the XL2 with 20x? If not does it have to be from the same vendor? No speculation please, I've read every word of the rebate form and I'm still uncertain.

Geez, you make me sound like I'm retarded or something.

Believe me I've tried it. When you've got one day to shoot two days worth of stuff, twiddling the 20x just didn't work. For the way I work, the 16x works best for me. I don't want to have to think about focusing. The 16x and follow focus are more intuitive for how I work.

No, I didn't make you sound retarted.

Believe me, I've not only tried it, I've done it, over and over and over again, and continue to do it. Like I said, it's like an instrument--a trombone versus a trumpet would be a perfect example. The trumpet would be the manual lens, the trombone would be the 20x lens.

Too many people determined from the very beginning, because it was so different, that they didn't want to learn how to "play" this new instrument. Actually, you said so yourself, in so many words, "For the way I work, the 16x works best for me." That was your choice and that's fine! But don't say it can't be done, because it can.

Jay

Hi Mark and Pete,

I just reread your recent posts and wonder what you mean by "drift?" If I focus on the subject and shoot, will the focus change? or stay? I'm not sure I understand fully what you're saying.

I think your suggestion about the adaptor and 16X is a good one.

Lucinda

Patrick,

You have to do the rebate when you purchase the whole standard kit, so you have to buy the body of the cam with the 20X lens and the rebate lens are on top of that. Yes, you would have to purchase it from the same vendor, otherwise you wouldn't get the rebate.

Lucinda

Patrick,

You have to do the rebate when you purchase the whole standard kit, so you have to buy the body of the cam with the 20X lens and the rebate lens are on top of that. Yes, you would have to purchase it from the same vendor, otherwise you wouldn't get the rebate.

Lucinda

Lucinda, Why do you say you would have to purchase it from the same vendor, otherwise you wouldn't get the rebate? Did someone tell you this? It certainly isn't in the text of the rebate form. Are you guessing or speculating?

The rebate form text indicates that multiple vendors are acceptable because it adds an "s" in parenthesis after the words "receipt", "Dealer", "store name", and "purchase date". This would indicate that multiple "receipts", "Dealers", "store names", and "purchase dates" would be acceptable. Read for yourself:

This request form must be accompanied by the ORIGINAL UPC codes and ORIGINAL serial numbers cut from
product boxes, and a COPY of the sales receipt(s) from Authorized Canon U.S.A. Digital Video Dealer(s) with store name(s) and purchase date(s), digital video model and Canon Lens model, and prices paid, clearly legible to be valid.

Well I guess you could use the rebate from another vendor. Why not ask the vendors? I think that would be the safest thing, since I just assumed the rebate would only apply at the point of purchase. Better to be safe than sorry.

Lucinda

Well I guess you could use the rebate from another vendor. Why not ask the vendors? I think that would be the safest thing, since I just assumed the rebate would only apply at the point of purchase. Better to be safe than sorry.

Lucinda

Actually the rebate form is available directly from Canon at XL2 Rebate Form (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/camcorder/XL2_lens.pdf).

The only vendor requirement is that they be an Authorized Canon Dealer, and that they provide a legible receipt with the required info on it to satisfy the rebate stipulations.

So...rather than speculation and assumptions, I was hoping to hear from someone who tried to purchase from two different vendors or did buy from different vendors and applied for the rebate.

If I focus on the subject and shoot, will the focus change? or stay?

The focus should stay (even while zooming). But if you mark the focus ring position, change focus and then return to the marked position, the focus point will most likely have shifted. This is because the focus is not just related to the position of the focus ring, but also to the speed at which the ring is turned.

Richard

Dang! They're givin' out rebates? I want me one!

Richard pretty much hit it. Focus drift, meaning that if you set the mark, the electro focus on the 20x, in my experience, will drift away from the focus mark that you have set.

Thanks Richard and Mark....that makes sense. It seems like a nice all around lens tho'. Yes, the rebate is tempting. It's for both the 3x wide angle and the 16x servo lens.

Hi
Even with Panasonic next hit HVX 200 coming, I`m considering the purchase of the XL2.
Main use will be for indie feature films, tv commercials, musical video clips and documentaries.
I`m aware of some operacional problems regarding the 20X Stock zoom lens, but would like to know about its optical qualities:
Does It keep the contrast, color saturation and resolution along all the focal distances of the zoom?
Is there any issue with the focus along the zoom (collimation problem)?
Thank you

Ronger

It is an EXCELLENT lens. It looks amazing for close-ups and great in general. The only issue, as with almost all pro-sumer cams, is that it may not go wide enough for some shots. I highly recommend a Century OPtics adapter or the 3X Canon Wide.


ash =o)

Thank you Ash
Anyone else?
rON

The Canon 3x is a must have.

The 20x is tack sharp, but you may want to consider getting the 16x manual lens for what you are shooting.

Both lenses are excellent and I own both, but I find that I use the 16x almost all of the time.

Thank you
But no opinion on each characteristic of the 20X zoom lens?
Best
Ron

The clairty and reach of the 20x is superb. The manual focus is a little tricky to get the hang of, but the zoom is as fast as you need it or as slow a syou need it, and the oppertunity to selet a focus mark, rack focus, and then, with the push of a button, snap back to your original focus point is a huge advantage.

the 16x has amazing rack focus (although there is noticible lens breathing), and the glass quality seems slightly higher producing a slightly softer, more cinematic image. Granted, the camer ais so good anyway that the 20X lens looks amazing.

I have the 20X over the 16x simply because it's cheaper, longer reach, slightly shallower DOF and pre-programmed snap focus. If money werent an object, I would own both, but it's a better ivnestment to get the cam with it's prime lens and add a 16 later. The 20x will have a lot of resale value.

I own both but I mainly do handhels and use th 20X most the time. 16X is great for setting up shots, not so much capturing a moment IMHO. It does take some skill to master the 20X because the manual controls are DIGITAL...



ash =o)

Hi all,

I don't know whether anyone else has experienced this or not but...
Every time I power up the XL2, the 20x lens makes 3 very loud, distinct, low freq clicking noise (click, click... click). Should I be concerned? The camera works without a problem but it's very disturbing to hear it everytime the camera is powered up. It doesn't happen on the 3x wide lens, just the 20x.
I was wondering if anyone out there in DVinfo land could enlighten me.

Thx

Hello Riz,

I too hear some noises in my 20X on power up. Many others have reported the same thing. It is the lens going through its initialization. The variable angle prism is being driven to its initial state, the autofocus/zoom motor is also getting intialized.

I don't know that Canon has offered an official answer to this question but it does affect a lot of users.

regards,

=gb=

It's the sound of the little men inside your lens waking up.

Actually, as Greg said, it's the lens going through it's initialization process. Good shooting!

More like the little men hearing the alarm and falling out of bed!

So then why doesn't it do it on the 3x lens?

Um, there's no little men inside? (grins hopefully :~[] )

I haven't really used the 3x, it's older, so perhaps it's some of the newer things like the IS and other things make more noise. As stated before not to worry though, all the 20x lenses do that.

Thanks Greg and Mark for your info.

It is not a big issue, however, since Day 1 my lense has been slightly loose in relation to its attachment the camera body.

Is this normal?

Should I be sending my camera back into canon?

If I do need to send it, and I have work that I need the camera for, are there any options to get a loner sent out to me first?

thanks.

Hi Stefan,

This has been reported before:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=43297

I'm still not clear if people are really having a lens mount problem, or if some folks are over-interpreting things.

Just as a single data point, my 20x lens will rotate on the mount perhaps less than a millimeter. But, it has NO side-to-side (lateral) or forward-backward looseness at all. The subtle rotational "play" has no effect on picture, I don't notice it with normal use, and I feel this is within normal tolerances of the locking mechanism of a lens mount.

If your lens moves so much it affects your picture, I'd have to assume something is actually wrong. Loaners or replacements will depend on the policies of the vender you bought it from and how long you've had it.

I noticed that jiggling months after I got my camera and only noticed it after i got the 3x wide angle. I'm not sure if it always did that or not, and feel silly. so of course I sent it to canon and they sent it back saying it was fine and normal. and pretty much everybody here says the same thing.

I was shooting with the 20X lens yesterday and zooming with the button--back and forth-- rather than on the lens itself. I noticed a couple of times that the zoom wasn't completely smooth, there was a slight hesitation. I wasn't filming, just setting up to film clips. I'll have to do it again to see if it happens again. Must be something in the lens motor? has anyone else had this happen? is it normal? Lucinda

Hi
Yesterday I was presented for the first time to the XL2 and could make a quick test.
A very weird thing happened when operating the 20X stock zoom lens:
the camera`s owner fitted the lens in the camera and we heard the click sound.
So everything was supposedly ok. Then I started trying to shoot something.
I focus the usual way: zoomed in to the maximum focal length, focused and zoomed out to compose the frame.
Then I noticed that the focus was lost in many focal lengths along the zoom!
And these was the way the camera behaved everytime.
So I couldn`t keep an image focused using the zoom!
As the camera`s owner was not familiar with it, I wonder if after the click sound he should have done a back focus adjustment or , I doubt it, the lens act like this normaly?
Thank you for your attention
Ron

I've seen that happen before on mine. Then I look at the lens and realize it was set on auto focus and then i feel stupid.

Thank you Robert
No, we checked the focus was in manual.
This way is impossible to use the camera professionaly with the 20X stock zoom lens.
Ron

Thank you Robert
No, we checked the focus was in manual.
This way is impossible to use the camera professionaly with the 20X stock zoom lens.
Ron
I have owned and used the XL2 "professionally" ever since it was released. I've never had the problem you're describing here. It's not impossible to use the camera professionally with the stock 20X lens! Evidently there is a problem with the specific lens you were using.

Jay

I have seen this problem before, it is NOT normal. You need to have the lens/camera serviced by Canon. I have never personally had the problem and I change lenses a lot but it is more common with people who change lenses quite a bit. NEVER change the lens with the camera on fyi....


ash =o)