The word is out.

See http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040713_xl2.html.

You heard it here first!

Stay tuned to DV Info Net for "further developments."

See link above for full story, but here's a juicy quote for you:

"NEW YORK, July 13, 2004 — Canon's new XL2 camcorder offers an evolutionary design and new professional features — including a choice of 60i, 24p or 30p frame rates, 4:3 or high resolution 16:9 aspect ratio, new 680,000 pixel progressive scan CCDs, and a full line of customizable controls for cine-looking results. Along with its new 20x interchangeable lens, this new Mini-DV camcorder empowers cinematographers and videographers with a completely customizable broadcast and feature film quality acquisition tool."

Much more at the press release link above.

Oh man....

and I just had convinced myself to stick with being a writer...

and I just bought a car!

wowzers

Any pics? We want pics!

There's an embargo on pics for a few more hours yet. The press conference at DV Expo later this morning is the official unveiling. Photos to follow soon afterwards!

That's great news! Hope it'll proove to be all it seems!

wow
I can't wait

GOD that 16x manual lens I have is still worth something, but a 20x lens hmmmmm I keep renting extenders and 24p(now I wont have to buy that dvx) .... very excited cant wait to see pics. Of course Im one of those who wont buy for a year with my fear of bugs in the 1st offering but still.......

M

I'll have to go the place I buy all my gear at and bug them about when they will get the XL-2, now all the DVX100 users can shake in their boots!!!

I'm dissappointed that it's not an HD cam, but I'm sure there was a good reason for this, like to keep the price under $5000. The line about supporting SMPTE timecode is a little confusing to me. It's not DV CAM format, right? Will regular mini-DV decks be able to read this timecode?

It's not DVCam, no. The SMPTE time code, user bits, etc. are similar to -- well, maybe even identical to this very same feature on the Panasonic DVX100A, which is also plain vanilla DV. The DVX writes SMPTE-compliant VTC into the sub-code area of the DV tape. I'm willing to bet that the XL2 does exactly the same. Just a guess, though.

here you go.. nothing radically different on the looks front:

http://www.canon-sales.co.jp/dv/lineup/xl2kit/point.html

Here are hi-res pics.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040713/canon1.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040713/canon2.jpg

to jarrad and masahiro for that sneak peak, notice the integrated shoulderpad of course now im shaking in my boots because I use the Anton Bauers with mine and is there a place to mount the holder on the new shoulder pad....im also wondering how the viewfinder is going to be. I guess Im going to have a hard time falling asleep tonight :)

M

Open Architecture on the Inside
Image Quality/Aspect Ratio
"The 3CCD progressive scan system utilized by the XL2 camcorder provides 16:9 (962 x 480 pixels) and 4:3 (720 x 480 pixels) recording. The camcorder's third generation signal processing LSI (large scale integrated circuit) improves Signal/Noise ratio to realize higher resolution than XL1s camcorder.

When selecting the high-resolution 16:9 aspect ratio, the camcorder uses the full width of the CCD. When camera operators look through the viewfinder, their footage will be displayed in letterbox style, so users can compose widescreen images precisely. This way, when the video is later edited in postproduction, or when viewed on a 16:9 monitor, users will see exactly what they intended."

So, does this mean it's true 16:9? Or is it still the "stretch n' chop" method?


"In addition to accepting the full line up of Canon's XL lenses — including the 16x IS II Auto focus lens, 16x Mechanical Servo Zoom lens, 3x Wide Angle, the 1.6x Extender and the EF adaptor for use with Canon's full line of EF photographic lenses - Canon is launching a new Professional L-series 20X Optical zoom lens. "

So it's backward compatible with the older lenses? Sweet!

Josh: it looks like it is true 16:9 and progressive. Sweet indeed.

And indeed you can use your old lenses it seems.

I'm quite interested myself in that SDK thing. Can I actually
program this camera... whoooo. Now to wait and see what we
can *actually* change and to with this SDK.

Now for me, the question is - how long do I have to wait for a PAL version to appear?

Aaron

to Chris Hurd....Ive been travelling a lot lately for work but knew something was coming down. If I was going to be among the 1st to know, it would be here. Thanks to this site and my being home for the moment I get to see the news of the XL2. Chris thanks for a great resource time and time again and a place to check out rumours but also find out what is good and bad based on member reviews. I bought my 1st cam with overtime from the Florida Election Recount and thanks to to you and the members here utilized it to my advantage. This site has been a big help to me for years..so most of all when I say thanks its to DVInfo.net and your hard work all these years...

M

I second Aaron's remarks about a PAL version, presumably it will just have 25p/50i like the PAL DVX100a.

Does anyone remember how long after the NTSC XL1 and XL1-s were released, that a PAL version became available?

If there are positive reviews of the XL2, it will definitely be my next choice of camera. I'd thought it would be the DVX, but I mean wow! the specs of the XL2 speak for themselves. It seems like the ultimate all in one pro-sumer cam (true prog + 16:9 + Changeable lenses!).

I also second Michel's comments. Great stuff Chris and the board/forum, the best DV information site by far.

Dave.

I just know, that the XL1s I have, which is a PAL version, was bought in Germany in October 2001, and I think, then it was quite new...

Damn.... just bought myself that XL1s some weeks ago.... hope I didn't pay too much... (at least I got a lot of accessory togheter with the cam...)

Dave, I held off getting a DVX because of the rumours and I'm happy I did. Lets hope we can get some real detailed specs soon to see what's really up with it. I'm skeptical it's going to be lots better than the DVX (Sure 16:9 is nice, but not something I find that important) but I've been wanting a camera that looks more pro and if it's as good as the DVX, I'm sold.

Aaron

Is this gonna be Grazie's No1 cammera? Will his XM2 be the back-up? Stay tuned ! Same time . . . Same Channel!

. .ooo the prgraming looks kinda funky . .. AND a built in shoulder rest .. AND the built in XLRs .. oh one of the features is that you can use the VL3 Canon Light . .ah sweet . .even a place for the VL3 . ..

C'mon you Pallies!

Grazie

I've made a summary of the specs we know thus far. More
information should arrive shortly.

click here for a summary of the specs (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28853)

OK, so which Beta testers are going to comment?

The announcement is more than an hour old now. Is it time to start the XL3 (XL2s?) wish list forum!

Ok seriously. . .how come, with all this fanciness, we still get a 20x version of the ISII lens? Doesn't canon know, by now, that almost everyone who's going to own one of these will be using it for some type of professional application (filmmaking, video production, whatever), and would therefore greatly benefit from the STOCK lens having marked/calibrated focus and zoom rings, like real ENG cameras, ditto iris, macro focus, back focus adjustment? I really don't get it. Is it the cost? Would it drive up the price point too much? Wouldn't we all rather have a 20x equivalent of the 16x manual lens as the STOCK lens? Couldn't they throw in an autofocus, somehow? Seriously, I don't get it.

Also, don't suppose there's a chance they'll offer a deal where you can exchange your XL1s body for an XL2 body? :-)

I agree Josh, but then again it must be the price. They can charge a lot for the camera, and those of us wanting a real lens will go out and buy one on top of the cam.

Aaron

No HDV, no excitement from me. It's just a bump up from the DVX100A, and look at that price! Woah! But it looks like a nice SD camera, though. I would love to see it transferred to 35mm....especially the PAL version.

Looking at that canon1 picture it looks like the viewfinder can
be flipped up to reveal a "flipout" LCD screen. See how the
back of the viewfinder is more bulky and there appears to be
some form of a hinge on top of it. I don't see any other place
where the LCD screen could "flipout"

Just to add something that's missing from the specs here, the japanese site indicates the size of the CCD as being 1/3".

Effective pixel usage is 350,000 in 4:3 mode and 460,000 in 16:9.

The "true" 16:9 is probably just an enhanced 16:9 like on most other camcorders.

Steven I can't see how you get to that conclusion when it clearly
states it uses more pixels in 16:9 than it does in 4:3. This is NOT
what "most" other camcorders do and is also NOT what the XL1
range did/does.

The other camera's and the XL1 range does electronic stretching.
So they use the same amount of pixels in both modes.

Sorry, I was being unclear.

What I meant is that the CCD probably aren't 16:9 shaped but 4:3. Since the overall pixel count is higher you can still get an enhanced 16:9 mode similar to that which can be found on the GS400 for example.

But, it also means that it lessens the effective CCD size and maybe the sensitivity.

However, the japanese site also boasts 540 lines of horizontal resolution in 16:9 mode, which is fairly good.

Edit: Just want to add that I may be wrong and that the CCD are true 16:9. But the site is unclear about that:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.canon-sales.co.jp%2Fdv%2Ftechnology%2Ftect_sub_advance09.html&lp=ja_en

It strikes me as strange that the effective pixels are so much higher than the 460K of 16:9.

Rob, yeah I noticed that little hinge there too. We really have to see some images with this thing to compare with other cameras, but I'm not too excited at the moment to be honest. And 350K pixels in 4:3? The DVX trounces that but then I know it's more than the pixels, it's how you use them ;)

Aaron

Steven: ah, thanks for that. I understand you know. The more
pixels are indeed puzzling and I have to agree that it sounds
like a 4:3 chip with more pixels. But who knows. Would be
interesting to see how the dynamic range is compared to the
XL1S. Can someone send me a model for review/testing please? <g>

Aaron San has wise words!

If this is not HDV, whee does this leave canon on HDV.

If people buy this and then in 12 months they release the HD version, it will not be good for Canon.

OR

Are they backing out of the race for the time being, and just waiting? Overall, I am a little dissapointed. Progressive is IT as far as cams go for me, but weve been waiting anxiously or more HDV since NAB.

<<<-- Originally posted by Aaron Koolen : It strikes me as strange that the effective pixels are so much higher than the 460K of 16:9. -->>>

Apparently, the XL2 uses a digital image stabilizer (which can be combined with the OIS found on some lenses), which could (at least partly) explain the higher pixel count.

Where did you find that, Steven? I've not seen any mention of
a digital stabilizer function anywhere or I must have not been
reading stuff correctly (which could be). Please point to the source
of this. Thank you.

You're right. After re-reading the press release I found that I mis-interpreted the following bit:Canon's SuperRange OIS system goes one step further by examining the image after the CCD receives it and detecting any low-frequency vibrations missed by the gyro. This data is fed back to accelerate and refine the movement of the vari-angle prism. This greatly improves performance for low frequency vibration, resulting in the most advanced optical image stabilization available today.
OK, enough guessing for me ! LOL

The LCD display sounds nice (Although a measly 2") but I'm interested to see if they underscan. That would be a really nice addition.

Aaron

I've added the PAL info just now to the summary thread which
everybody can still read and see (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28853)

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28853

Available in August.

Guess I was right all along.

I'm ok that its not HDV. I'm just happy to see a hiqh quality widescreen mode. After translating the Canon Japan site it looks like the XL2 will properly display its anamoprhic widescreen mode as letterboxed in the viewfinder!

How much do you get for selling plasma?

The XL2 is now online on the Canon USA site:
http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=114&modelid=10350

The "true" 16:9 is probably just an enhanced 16:9 like on most other camcorders.Thats more than enough pixels for a quality widescreen mode. I don't see a problem with those numbers!

I guess I was right about the viewfinder flipping mode to LCD:

" convertible LCD display " (click here to see it animate (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/app/html/dv/XL2_02_AspectRatio.html))

And:

" The XL2 has an EVF that is convertible between a standard eyepiece and a 2” high resolution LCD "

The viewfinder does flip open to reveal the LCD. Take a look at the Flash demonstrations on the Canon USA website.

No HDV yet. However, what do you want to bet that the GL2 replacement next year will have the HDV standard implemented as more and more consumers want it to match with their HD televisions.

Time to start a new rumor since all of our old ones are now obsolete (grin).

Here piggy, piggy bank...now where did I put that hammer.

Information on the XL2 now posted to Canon USA Web site -- complete with flash intro.

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=114&modelid=10350

Well, I'm glad to see that there is finally a DV camera will all the functions most of us have always wanted:

True 16x9
24p
XLR inputs

That alone automatically puts it at the front of the pack.

But, and not trying to bash on Canon here, what is the deal with
a "flip up" viewfinder to "reveal" an LCD screen?

Why not just say there is NO LCD screen on the camera.

That isn't exactly groundbreaking...or even a new feature.

Before Flip out screens, before DV even that's how we used to shoot with the old Panasonic SVHS 455s. Just flip the viewfinder open and look at the tiny little screen inside.

I did the same with my 8mm and Hi8 cameras.


That is the only feature that sort of seems like a joke to me.
But the rest looks incredible.

-luis

<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Boston : No HDV yet. However, what do you want to bet that the GL2 replacement next year will have the HDV standard implemented as more and more consumers want it to match with their HD televisions. >>>

The new XL2 looks very, very interesting for mini DV. The specs appear to be quite an improvement over it's predecessor. Unfortunately, at this moment I can't muster myself to say "wow" and really mean it.

I guess I shouldn't have expected HD or HDV. The wiser ones on this forum warned that Canon most likely wouldn't be releasing such a beast at this time. I know that Canon is moving in what they believe is the right direction for them.

It's not that I won't be supporting or purchasing this little gem, but reluctantly, I'll have to go back and reconsider the expensive Panasonic Varicam HD lineup for true HD production.

My comments are not meant as a downer on a fabulous and historical release date for XL* fans, but only to reflect that HD is here to stay. A neutral sigh commeth from our production staff that Canon won't be serving HD or HDV on it's menu this time around.