The press release explains it all. (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jun/23quicktime.html)

heath

Cool deal...having just invested in a dual G5, this is good news.

I'm guessing they'll have software updates for our Pioneer DVD burners to be dual layer? If not, I hope we can get cheap dual layer DVD burners by that time next year.

This is the coolest time to start a video company! The next 5 years will be awesome for new equipment and within 10 years I bet it'll be even better!

Murph

I need a dual processor G5, but I need to sell my 1.6 ghz system.

I've seen the dual layer DVD-R recorders in the stores, and I bet Apple will have them ASAP.

As for the HD codec, I don't feel it's too late for Apple to jump in the game. Windows Media 9 HD isn't even on DVD players yet, so Apple won't get hurt. If they could have it come out sooner, even better.

heath

i dont get it, what does this codec mean for us?

If you have QuickTime, and I believe it's not just for Mac (but PC, too), you can use this to burn HD DVDs. And this is the standard, I believe, not Windows Media 9 HD. Apple was smart to wait for the standard to be established before going forward.

heath

It means that FCP and any other QuickTime-based NLE will inherit the capability of exporting to the HD-DVD standard. This will happen when Apple adds the standard AVC to QuickTime. It might be possible that some non-AVC H.264 encoded video will also be playable in HD-DVD boxes, but that is NOT what this newsbyte means so don't expect that to happen right away. In other words: no, having a Mac with a DVD burner, even if it is double layer, does not guarantee that what you encode today will be HD-DVD compatible, we still have to wait a little for that. The promise between the lines is that us users of QuickTime-based software will get it sooner. OF course, now that the H.264 AVC is officially the HD-DVD codec, it is likely that MIcrosoft and Real Networks will add AVC to their architectures too. Will Apple get there first? I think the answer is yes.

Not too burst anyone's bubble, but according to The Digital Bits (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa90.html#forum)
DVD site the first 1.0 spec of HD-DVD from the DVD Forum includes
3 formats. This QuickTime codec, MPEG2 & Microsofts one:Interestingly, the spec requires three different video codecs be built-in for compliance to the format, including current MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) and Microsoft's VC-9 (which is a component of their Windows Media 9 format).The thing I do know is that it isn't so clear yet that HD-DVD will
be the next format. There is another contender in the ring:
blu-ray. As it looks now we will have a format war all over again
(SACD & DVD-Audio anyone?). I read an article the other day
that favores blu-ray slightly at the moment. Personally I would
too. They already have demonstrated a playable format and the
discs are already in use at Sony's high-end gear range.The other big piece of news that seems likely to break this week (and it is BIG, let me tell you) is starting to slip out now: Sony is reportedly close to completing their deal to buy MGM for a reported $5 billion, and some sources are saying the ink is already drying on the paperwork. As you may recall, we mentioned this possibility a couple of months ago (click here and slide down a little to see our original new story). So what's this all about? We said it in April and we'll say it again now... Blu-ray, baby. If this deal pans out, Sony gains access to Hollywood's largest library of films for exclusive release on Blu-ray Disc, giving their high-definition format an even greater edge (than it already has) in the brewing battle with HD-DVD. With all due respect to Warren Lieberfarb, this whole format "war" is looking a little one-sided right now. Can you imagine James Bond in high-definition? That day might not be far off, folks. James... meet Spider-Man. Spidey... 007. Everybody play nice now. You can be sure we'll watch this little sitch-E-ation VERY closely, so stay tuned.Source: The Digital Bits again (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa90.html#dates)the company was recently in exclusive talks to acquire MGM, including the Lion's impressive film library, for an estimated $5 billion, though the deal-making has come to a standstill, and MGM has opened up the table to other companies, such as NBC and Time Warner.So for now it seems of the table, but they are still going after
the studios it seems. This also came from the Bits which got it
from Variety (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/variety/20040621/va_fi_ne/more_than_spidey_in_sony_s_web_1)

Links:
The Digital Bits: HD-DVD 1.0 spec info (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa90.html#forum)
The Digital Bits: Sony after movie companies (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa90.html#dates)
The Digital Bits: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/wces04/report.html)
Variety: no deal with MGM (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/variety/20040621/va_fi_ne/more_than_spidey_in_sony_s_web_1)
Here's a site with more info on HD-DVD (http://www.hddvd.org/hddvd/)

There needs to be a standard for HD DVDs. Remember all the hooplah in late 1997/early 1998 about the formats of DVDs? Wasn't it Divx or something?

hwm

Yeah, Divx was there (before the codec with the same name). It
failed... badly.

I think Apple was very smart to put their weight behind the H.264 codec because it isn't owned by any one company.

Remember that if you produce and sell MPEG-2 DVDs, you are required to pay royalties to the MPEGLA Patent pool. Even wedding videos! Most people don't know this. I can imagine that they want to increase these royalties for HD MPEG-2. Imagine how much they have received in royalty fees from DVD sales over the years...

The other alternative is Microsoft WM9. Obviously, adopting this format for HD DVDs would benefit Bill Gates in a huge way and I think most people aren't comfortable with this. Imagine if one man received royalties for each VHS tape sold in history...

So, I think that the open H.264 standard has a lot more chances to be adopted as the HD DVD Codec than MPEG-2 or WM9 because it will not benefit one party but everyone.

I just keep thinking that whatever the HD-DVD format is - it better be just like DVD is now. It needs to play in all players everywhere and needs to have a life that goes well beyond 20 years. Otherwise, we're going backwards in what is probably the most important medium for home video - VHS. We can still play the very first VHS tapes put out back in the late 1970's in any $30 Wal-Mart special VHS deck - that's important because they probably mostly contain family videos.

That's what I keep thinking about - families out there shooting, and trying to archive footage on a medium that they THINK will be useable in 20+ years. Right now, I have 20-30 VHS tapes that I need to digitize into some type of digital DVD format. All these VHS's are about 20 years old and still play (but, obviously they need to be transfered ASAP).

Anyway, I'm waiting for the DVD spec that will be the main thing for decades. (maybe it won't happen?)

Murph

There are some DVD players that don't play DVD-Rs, and it's a nightmare whenever I burn DVDs for clients.

hwm

Murph,

Just like DVD now with the exception of the royalties. I don't think that any entity should be paid for every HD DVD produced and sold out there. It's just a bad idea because ultimately, the industry will resent it and want to change format.

Imagine if we had to pay Edison everytime we turned on the light? Or Bell everytime you picked up your phone?

I didn't say we should pay for it. We don't pay for VHS rights other than to buy the tapes itself...and the players are really cheap and they record! (i know, jvc owns the rights to vhs...but, you know what i mean!)

That's all I'm saying is that it should be just like VHS has been - an entire generation now has enjoyed ease of use with VHS camcorders and archiving. We also have watched Hollywood movies on the same medium!

I'm not saying anything other than - it should be the same type of thing as VHS. It should work for poor people to rich people, technically savvy to non-technical and ultimately should have a life that goes multiple decades. Otherwise, we're lining the pockets of whom every couple years? Why make the next generation DVD format like computers? That's why the Microsoft thing gives me the creeps, even Apple or any computer maker involved in DVD specs. I think Hollywood is smart because they're taking their time with this stuff...they know for sure that mom and dad and little baby junior want to watch Shrek 5 and their old Shrek 3 on the same thing and not have to buy the player over and over.

Hollywood ain't making money on DVD players - it's the DVD's themselves and their content. I just don't see how it benefits Hollywood if ever 3-5 years there is a new "spec" that requires an "upgrade" to a player. It's less $$$ for them because people are buying hardware and not the content....and Hollywood is about content and it's medium (VHS tapes, DVD's and future HD-DVD's) and not ever about hardware. As a matter of fact, if we look at the history of Hollywood content we have only 4- major ways they've distributed content until now. Movie theaters, television (sat, cable, broadcast), VHS and now DVD. (let's not count Internet distribution because it's just not there for the masses) That's only 4 ways they pump out product - and I really think they're sitting back watching and will ultimately not play into any computer geeks cards. They originally tried to own the theaters back in the day...and they were forced by the government to sell them. It was a anti-trust issue...so, Hollywood wants make sure that their distribution stays intact for their own purposes. I just never see Hollywood playing nice with Toshiba, Microsoft, Apple, NEC, or any other for-profit hardware and software companies.

Ok, there is one small caveat here. Hollywood will make crap physical media just like their previous distribution formats. The HD-DVD will be like the CD and DVD..you scatch them and it's time to buy it again. That's always bugged me...they prey on kids dropping and ruining the tapes, CD's and DVD's. Why can't they make titanium versions of their media that you can cart around and drop, kick or otherwise? Instead, we get stuff that'll break if we use it more than once! It's the physical media itself that breaks...never the actually format itself!

These are my opinions! I just think that Microsoft and all the rest have dug their own graves in the last 10-15 years. Computers in general suck for the masses...they're such a pain in the arse to use. However, a 2 year old and a 90 year old can grab a VHS tape and put it in and watch the Lion King or whatever. It just doesn't make sense to me that Hollywood would put their profits into the hands of lame-duck companies that are constantly in a flux. I mean, all computer or hardware companies are in jeopardy of going under...and then they suddenly have a "good quarter". But, Hollywood has been around for 100 years and almost all the computer and hardware makers are making a reversal into entertainment...it's not about Microsoft Word or Apple's cute interface anymore. It's about being able to join the Hollywood money machine!

Ok, I think that I need coffee this morning because I'm ranting bigtime!

Murph

Murph,

You touch on many subjects and I do agree with you, whichever format is chosen for HD DVD should be as easy as using a VHS tape.

The point I was making is that between these 3 formats: MPEG-2, Windows Media 9 and H.264 the later is the only one that will not put money in one company or patent pool's pocket for every HD DVD sold.

Today, the MPEGLA gets money for every DVD sold in the world. It is a royalty fee owed by anyone selling DVDs, even the small wedding videographer.

Then H.264 should be the format we all support!

Murph

Does this conference software support polls? We could vote on it and then officially endorse it. Perhaps Apple can send us T-shirts or something :$

Frederic: if license fees must be paid for MPEG(2) then you can
bet we are paying for them in some form. Through the price
we pay for the encoders. Or perhaps it is factured into discs.
Etc. At least that's what I'm "betting".

Rob,

Exactly! The consumer always ends up picking up the tab.

This from a longer post on the Premiere Pro Cow forum -

"Adobe is amused by the Apple HD announcement. This is nothing more than a simple format extension for DV to include a low res proxy for the DVCPro HD format. If you actually try to use it you will notice that it needs half or quarter rez to play and still requires a minimum two CPU G5 system. For the same price you can purchase a very nice uncompressed BlackMagic based PC computer with Premiere Pro and add storage. The quality will be uncompressed and you will be able to view your timeline on a real HD monitor from a professional HD-SDI output (not a VGA card out like on the Mac"

The same post also contains some comments about the "lack of full compliance" of JVC with the HDV spec.

The full post is here - I'd be interested in what others here make of this info:

http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=108817291236860&forumid=3

To watch WM9HD, you need Windows XP Pro and a FAST Pentium or whatever processor. So I don't think the thing about a dual 2 ghz G5 is that big of a deal.

You can buy a dual 2 ghz G5, a decklink HD card (until the end of the month it's a grand) and an HD LCD monitor for $5500. Not including a RAID, etc.

hwm

I don't know what they're talking about with DVCPro HD - sounds like they're trying to scare people away from FCP. It plays back full rez, doesn't need a G5 (my iMac will play it back). As for an SDI capture of DVCproHD being uncompressed - true, but it doesn't give you any better picture because it started life as compressed, just like DV. If you want to play it back out you can via firewire from the deck, or route it via an SDI card and out to an HD monitor. It's just adobe sour grapes....

Graeme

Graham,

I think you are confusing two things here. We are talking about H.264 not DVCPRO HD. H.264 as an HD DVD Codec for platform independent DVD playing.

The DVCPRO HD argument is a completely different topic.

You are right - apologies for the diversion...

No sweat! how about some HDV-friendly FCP filters??? :-)

heath

Just to add one little thing before going back on topic:

Heath: the post was talking about uncompressed HD. Which
you don't need a fast CPU for to play back. Just a fast harddisk
(array). Like any system.

You are correct in that WM9 HD requires a strong proc.

Take a look at Steve Jobs keynote if you haven't. I was very impressed with H.264

Same bitrate as NTSC DVD but HD resolution. 6 Mbps.

Very impressive!

Nice!

hwm

..hates the idea of a Bill Gates HD format (aka WMP9), I feel this is the most logical direction for home HD to take.

The Voom HD satellite service just announced that they will be using WMP9 compression later in the year to provide more HD programming over the same amount of satellite bandwidth.

This seems to be Gates' first serious foray into making WMP9-HD the standard for home delivery. Next comes personal video recorders that record in WMP9-HD... and of course as processor speeds rise, the WMP9-HD format will be able to be played on most home computers.

I already use WMP9-HD all the time. I go from the JVC HD-1 into my Win XP 3.2GHz-HT laptop, edit the footage in Premiere Pro, and then burn the WMP files to a DVD-R or watch the footage on my HD plasma TV.

And with the Terminator 2 HD-DVD, Microsoft has proven that it can also do 1080p on a DVD effectively. (http://www.wmvhd.com)

-Chris Gordon
Producer KABC-TV
Los Angeles

Ok. Good. A great technology, although I don't see the advantage over MPEG4, does the same thing, plus MPEG4 already plays on many cell phones. Anyway, it's not the technological capability that actually worries me in this case. Say we all settle for WM9 and it get's built into millions of DVD players worldwide. In 3 years, Microsoft might decide that their encoder is no longer free, or that a license is to be paid to them for every public release of WM9 encoded material or whatever. It's just impossible to say what the Microsoft Corp. might decide to do. Remember, it's a money making machine for it's shareholders, and nothing else, juist like any other corp. Not like ISO, not like IEEE, not like MPEG and so on.

H.264 is a super megp4, and hence will deliver better quality at lower bit rates than normal MPEG4. Jobs said at wwdc that it (H.264) will be built into all the next gen HD DVD players (alongside WM9, it would seem), and normal MPEG2.

Graeme

I have no problem with WM9HD, I just want to encode with it on my Mac! :-)

heath