Hi! This is my first post on this forum. I am completely new to digital cameras and the technical side to filmmaking in general. I am looking to buy a digital camera to take with me when i move out of my house this summer. I want to become a filmmaker and am hoping this camera will last me for many movies down the road. Please let me know your opinions on what is the best overral camera (and the lenses and settings to use on it) to achieve the best possible film look. Thank you guys for your help.

If you want to spend less then $ 5000 for the camcorder, I would suggest the Panasonic DVX100(a). I would suggest to start out with just the camcorder and buy extra equipment when you feel you really need it (like lenses, microphone etc).

Remember, a filmlook is not only the camera. It's also the way you use it, how you frame your shots, how you edit, etc.

Peter Sieben

<<<-- Originally posted by Joshua Young : I am completely new to digital cameras and the technical side to filmmaking in general. -->>>

Hi Joshua and welcome aboard! My suggestion would be to spend a lot of time reading and learning more about digital video before you even think about buying something. There is so much hype surrounding "film look" that, as a novice, you really need to exercise a bit of healthy skepticism. If you don't understand all the factors that contribute to controlling the video image then you won't be able to make an intelligent choice.

You also need to establish a realistic budget that fits your means before charging ahead and buying a camera. Sure the DVX-100a is a great camera and might very well be what you need. But can you afford it at $3,500 for the camera alone? Don't just look at the price of the camera, you will need a lot of other things which may not be immediately obvious. And of course you'll also need to have a few bucks left over to make all those movies you're planning.

This will be a great adventure for you, but do some planning first. It's a good idea to ask for opinions, but you really need to educate yourself so that you can make your own choices. Good luck and happy shopping!

Check out the JVC HD10u forum on here. It's high defintion as opposed to standard and the camera is $3000 or less now.

The HDV video standard is posed to take over where SD has been. It's come a long way and the toughest part has been resolved with the camera. (editing on a Mac has been tough, but recently LumiereHD came out and it's only $179)

Anyway, all the cameras have a "film look" option. But, the HD10u will give you WIDESCREEN aspect ration and higher resolution - much more like film if you ask any HD10u user. It fills an HDTV screen without stretching the image...it's a 100% HD standard.

You might get arguments from people about that fact, but download some HDV clips and play them besides SD...and you'll buy a HD10u. (I'd bet on it!)

Murph

The best film look: shoot on film

If you can't afford that and want to go digital do your research.
You can't expect to buy a camera (or shoot on film) and have it
come out looking like film and all professional.

On a big professional movie there are a lot of people working
to get it the way it looks / sounds / feels in the end. If you want
to mimic this with a small crew or by yourself you will still need
to do all the jobs they do.

There have been a lot of discussions on this board regarding
film looks, camera's that will help in that matter and everything
else you will need to know about this.

As Boyd also says: do your homework and research everything
you can.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit harsh with all of this. But it has
been asked a lot of times already and there is no quick fix, sorry.

The "best camera possible" to get a film look is, of course, a film camera. They're not expensive. You can get a CP16/R fully tricked out for about $1500, which is less than half the cost of a prosumer digital video camera. And your results are guaranteed to look exactly like film, because they will be. And you can get a genuine film camera for as low as maybe $150, for a Krasnogorsk K-3.

But if you want a video camera that looks like film, the "best possible" would probably be the Sony CineAlta HDCAM, at around $100,000.

The key component to getting a film look from a video camera, and distinguishing that look from other video cameras, is the frame rate: 24P is what you want. All other aspects (gamma, DOF, lighting, etc) can all be simulated between a film and video camera, but the video camera will still look like video if it's capturing at 60i. You need 24P for a convincing film look. And besides Sony's $35,000+ offerings, there's only one other manufacturer currently offering 24P product: Panasonic, with its $65,000 VariCam, $27,000 SDX900, $19,500 SPX800, and $3500 DVX100A.

Of course there is the new panavision camera as well, but you can't buy it only rent it from panavision, and beats me how you'd monitor or post it.

If you decide to go with the krasnogorsk-3 make sure you check it out so you don't shoot an entire short with some sort of horrible gate occilation.

Maybe you can get a decent 16mm for $1500. But lets not forget the price of film and development. Expect to pay uhhhh, well depends on length of film and in color or B&W, but you might drop $4,000 for just a small picture (minus development). Those images will be silent as well, so you need a DAT/minidisc recorder or something + boom operator. Then your limited to cut and splice editing, unless you want to transfer to digital. $$$$$$$, but it will allow you to patch in your audio and maybe some proffesional transitions. So the actual film camera may be cheaper than DV, but when your faced with coughing up $40 for 3.5 minutes of film footage VS $12 for 60 min of re-recordable in DV, most of the time a $3,000 DV cam pays off in the end.

Hmm 40 bucks for 3 minutes, shooting 24fps equals out to 4320 frames for 40 bucks. Doesn't sound like too much of a hassle. Shorts go up to 10 minutes max. Now is that 16mm you are talking about? Also is that the approximate sum for telecine or development? I am in the market for a dvx but sooner or later i will of course get a film cam.

The short answer is, you can buy 16mm stock, shoot it, process it, and transfer the results to video for about $25 per minute.

<<<-- Originally posted by Joshua Young : Hi! This is my first post on this forum. I am completely new to digital cameras and the technical side to filmmaking in general. I am looking to buy a digital camera to take with me when i move out of my house this summer. I want to become a filmmaker and am hoping this camera will last me for many movies down the road. Please let me know your opinions on what is the best overral camera (and the lenses and settings to use on it) to achieve the best possible film look. Thank you guys for your help. -->>>

This is a good question, but just remember, lighting and sound (yes, sound) are even MORE important for creating the illusion of making a movie then the decision of which DV camera to buy.

I pondered the same question and after intensive research and comparison we went with the HD10. For a film look it was first choice hands down. There is more to it of course, matte boxes, filters ect.. and you have to light it like film. Nothing happens magically.
Ken

by Sony's new offering

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Hodson : I pondered the same question and after intensive research and comparison we went with the HD10. For a film look it was first choice hands down. There is more to it of course, matte boxes, filters ect.. and you have to light it like film. Nothing happens magically.
Ken -->>>

???

The JVC 1CCD ?

Hands down for a 'film look'?

???

Im sooo confused!

Yes the footage looks exceptionaly "filmic".
1ccd vs. 3ccd? Well we have to talk apples to apples and being that there is no 3ccd HDV cams yet we can't tell how much better 3ccd's will make the image. But it is safe to say it is not in the same league as a 1ccd DV cam ;>)
I would like to stress that this cam is not for amatures. A full grasp of lighting, filters, camera technique and post production is needed to get the most out of it. It's NOT run and gun. The up side is a filmic look that no other cam under $10,000 can match.
Ken

NO other cam but the DVX. :)

IMHO neither of them look like film, and you are all crazy. :)

However, if you can't afford 16mm, I think the DVX is the next best choice.

LOL

Im one of those 'cant afford film' types. :/

Most people who can afford them won't visit this forum ;-)

Peter

During my 17 years stint as a videomaker for the office I've used KY-15, KY-19E, DVCPRO610W(2/3"), DVCPRO50, DVC200, DVC15, NVMX350, NVMX500, DSR300, XL1-S and DVX100.

Those who wish to go for richer colours would prefer Panasonic products especially the DVCPROs and SONY DSR300 has a more natural like colour(less colourful) compared to DVCPROs mixed together during MCP.

Canon's XL1-S is remarkably designed for that professional look but dissapoints me during manual focussing, but it has the right size and weight balance. The RCA audio output/input is a turndown. The picture quality is exceptional at 320,000 pixels.

SONY products has always been a great choice but you might want to try Panasonic who actually pioneered the digital video technology. You might have heard about the D5 broadcast format.

If you wish to have a professional feel on a cheap DV camera with a filmlike look, than I would suggest the DVX100 or the latest DVX100A. It produces 410,000 pixels. Try the F5 and F6 set-up, then write to me. I'm not really a knowhow person but I've already bought a used one for my hobby after having tried a few other models.

Malaysian TVNews stringers prefer DVX100. Easier for them to take overhead shots during press interviews with the LCD viewfinder which the XL1-s doesn't have.

Believe me, my shots at the Yara River in Melbourne last December were excellent.

Just so everybody knows, the new XL2 has been announced (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28853).

Sometimes it's just adjusting setting on the camera. There are also filters you can buy, and stuff you can do in post.

You should do a search on this subject... "film look". There's a TON of stuff on it. I have a VX2000 and made some adjustments to my custom settings per the suggestions on this board. It helped alot. VX2000's (at least in my opinion) colors are overly saturated, and the contrast seems very sharp so I adjusted these 2 things to make the colors more subtle and the contrast a little more soft. Those 2 adjustments are a start.

VX2000's run about $3000. They have since been updated to VX2100. I'm not sure what those cost... probably around the same.

<<<-- Originally posted by Linda Schodowsky : VX2000's run about $3000. They have since been updated to VX2010. I'm not sure what those cost... probably around the same. -->>>

Linda, the VX-2100 is the replacement for the VX-2000. It currently sells for $2,350 at B&H Photo. I doubt that you can find a new VX-2000 anymore, but used ones should certainly be well under $2,000.

Wow! They went way down in price!

Joshua -

I also wish to add that you will probably pay a bit more for a quality camera... I don't know if that makes any difference in achieving the "film look".

I lucked out, but I advise you to be careful of this... here's what I did. I went to "half" - a branch off of e-bay, where you pay the set price being advertised. I bought my VX2000, an extra battery, a 3 year warranty, a light and a huge case to put it all in along with a couple other extras - all for $2,300. I bought if from a film-school graduate who used it maybe 3 times. He got a job working for the federal government where he uses a camera all the time, and never had time to use this camera - he got it as a graduation present. It arrived in pristine condition... even had the sales receipt with it. He even gave me his home phone number should I have any questions... which I did. He was very helpful.

But... I would use caution, and wouldn't recommend buying from e-Bay, unless somebody on this board had positive experiences with e-Bay. Like I said, I went on "Half-bay"... e-Bay has a link that will take you there. Check it out... but be careful! Maybe you will get the results that I did.

Good luck with buying a camera! As for the "film look"... I can only speak for the VX2000.

Ive found myself looking around finding out what I can about the "best" way to achieve a specific look in a movie. I've been reading the books, watching movies for ideas. When it comes down to it, you could debate all day about what is the best process without having tried them at all, but the most important thing to do is go out there, shoot movies, and learn what you like and dont like, take whatever resources you have available. Speaking of which, I need to go shoot a movie!!!

The issues with the JVC and the 1ccd doesn't matter. I was skeptical at first then started playing with the camera. It comes down to the final product not the specs.....if it looks good hell with it. I challenge anybody to spot the difference in an A B test between film and digital hd. I have an Arriflex 16mm, and a jvc hdv and a gl2 and an xl1s. I have comparison footage of each. The jvc against the arriflex can look better.....but the gl2 in the right hands for example: my partner ,can blow the socks off most peoples footage. The same goes for the JVC, set the shots up right and you can blow the doors off film. These cameras are a cheaper version HD camera but the final result has the same resolution as the $100,000 units. So all these tools are GREAAAAT but if not used properly they do not reach their potential. I hate to agree with Robert Rodriguez BUT FILM IS DEAD..........IT WILL BE REPLACED. BUUUUUUUTTTTTT there will still be those who are skilled and those who are not......hell theres a guy over on the jvc HDV threads already hooking up 35mm lenses to this thing and the results are good...he's a guy that will get this camera to its full potential and there will be those who are still whining cause VHS is gone..........NEGATIVITY fuels me....keep it comin' people.
Oh and before anyone gets up in arms......I am a sarcastic bastard and I love people who say it can't be done....because there are many of us who love to prove those wrong.
SO smile everybody and keep fillin' up the film cans........(or for dv fans those little plastic cartridge thingies)
MP

MP
SO