Alright so the other day I purchased a custom computer at an auction. Turns out it wasn't as great as I thought it was but it does have some good features. The processor is an Intel single core 800mgz 64bit. Has only 2gig of DDR. Mother board is an asus socket 775 with 4 eSATA ports and 4 memory slots. Sound card isn't anything great it just has a TV tuner and S-video cables hanging off the back. Has a DVD player and burner and the case is pretty awesome too. Only down side is that it didn't come with a hard drive. Take a guess on what I got it for :)

So of course me being into video, I'm going to make it able to edit video. Doing that and keeping it cheap might be a problem. here are the things I am unsure of and need advice on.

1. Will that processor do the job?

2. How could I use the tv tuner and S-video cables to my advantage for video editing?

3. Hard drive configuration. I would like a minimum of a teribite with a second very fast hard drive for my operating system and programs. But should I go two 500gig raid1 or just get the cheaper 1tb WD 32mb cash hard drive and still run my OS off a faster HD?

4. two 19" Samsung 5ms monitors for $200 sound cheap?

Answers

1. No, too slow for anything modern

2. Can't do much with them unless you are going to connect a SD TV to the computer. That's about all that card is good for.

3l I'll let others address that.

4. Nope. Sounds small. E Specially if you plan on working with HD I've got 2 22" And would really like 2 24s and one 30 or so.

Alright so the other day I purchased a custom computer at an auction. Take a guess on what I got it for :)


$ 30. Anything over that is a waste.

$ 30. Anything over that is a waste.

The case alone is worth more than that :)

That could be correct, but did you take into consideration the cost of disposing of the rest? So $ 30 for the whole bunch, add $ 60 for disposal and your cash layout is around $ 90.

Disposal? i'm not following you..

You can't just throw the old unusable stuff into the trash -- you must pay to have it disposed of properly. Toxic stuff in landfills = bad. Most communities in the US and elsewhere worldwide frown on this and tend to prohibit it.

or I could just sell it..

You can't just throw the old unusable stuff into the trash -- you must pay to have it disposed of properly.

In the Bay Area, there's an assortment of technology recycling companies that'll pick up used computer equipment for free, giving you (or the company you're working for) a tax writeoff. I don't know if that industry is around everywhere, but I'd look around for something along those lines before paying anyone to get rid of your junk.

or I could just sell it..Sure, you could, but I think Harm's point is that everything else was worthless, an opinion that seems to be shared by Perrone.

Well it has a DVD burner and player.

I forgot to mention that the processor is an Intel 3gig 800mhz processor.

Ok, so maybe it's worth $100. Now you only need $1500 to finish up.

the processor is an Intel 3gig 800mhz processor.Hm. Which is it? 3GHz? 800MHz? 3.8GHz?

Earlier you said it was an 800 "mgz" so I think we all took that to mean 800 MHz, which can't really edit anything. 3GHz would be okay for DV but not HDV. Is there a 3.8GHz? Even so, a single-core at that clock speed wouldn't handle HDV well. My guess is you mean a 3GHz chip with an 800MHz FSB and/or 800MHz RAM. Either way, too slow for HDV.

In any event, your best bet is to go to the web pages for your editor of choice and look at their system requirements, and go "one louder" in every category.

Yea sorry I meant 3ghz 800mhz FSB.

So that processor is junk for HDV editing eh? Got a suggestion to get me going?

I would like to keep this fairly cheap because I have other things I need to make room for in the budget. I need a monitor (or two). Tigerdirect has a sale for 19" Samsung monitors going for $99 with a mail in rebate. That sounds awesome to me. Two of those for $200 VS one 24" for $200?

I need Hard drives. I just dont know the best configuration for HDV.

The motherboard supports DDR2 and has 4 slots. I think it can handle it. I'll get the actual part number and look up the specs.

A RAM upgrade...and i'm set

Thats all I can really think of.


Thanks for the help,
Terry.

Why are you building a system for HDV when that technology is quickly fading for the horizon? It's like going out and buying a new SD TV and telling us what a great deal you got.

The 2 monitors are probably going to be ok. I don't know the specs on them, but if you're doing this on the cheap, I am sure you'll live with the limitations.

HDV isn't very demanding on the drives. Any modern 7200k RPM drive should be fine. Just get two large ones if you can't buy 3.

Does the machine have firewire? How are you planning on getting the video into the computer?

How do you plan on getting the HD video OUT of the computer? What will you master to? And what will your finished product be?

Does the system have any audio capability? Is that important to you?

Perrone's points are all really well-taken, but let's just assume for the moment that HDV and AVCHD aren't going anywhere soon, even if there are no new HDV cams on the horizon. As an editing format you could do worse than building a machine that can handle those formats.

There are already plenty of threads on system recommendations for editing various flavors of HD, especially over at the HD editing forum.

Mo' power = Mo' betta.

A year ago when I built my system, the ideal chips were Quad-Core Xeons, two if you could afford them. Now the hot chip is the i7.

So my system is two quad Xeons, 20 GB RAM, a 10K Velociraptor system drive, and 7 x 1TB video drives in RAID3 plus hot spare (5TB capacity) for projects and raw CFHD video captures. I also have four x 2TB eSATA external drives for various scratch disks, but those aren't strictly necessary.

I know you've visited at least one of these threads already but they might be worth reviewing:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/high-definition-video-editing-solutions/238837-diy-computer-build.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/high-definition-video-editing-solutions/236906-what-kind-computer-do-i-need.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/high-definition-video-editing-solutions/140190-building-computer-hd.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/general-hd-720-1080-acquisition/238303-windows-rig-editing-avchd.html

As with everything, compromise will always be the order of the day. While you can get good value and impressive bang for the buck these days, cheap and high-performance do not usually go together. So it's really a matter of how much performance and capability you are comfortable paying for.

Why are you building a system for HDV when that technology is quickly fading for the horizon? It's like going out and buying a new SD TV and telling us what a great deal you got.

Well I guess i'm out of the loop. I use an HV30 which is HDV. JVC HD100/110/200/250 all HDV until the GY-HM700. XH-A1/G1 both HDV but the H1 is HD. Sense I don't have 5 to 8 grand to drop on a single camera i'm probably not going to put money into components for a computer designed to work with things I don't have. Don't get me wrong, I want the fastest possible system capable of editing anything but I didn't know HDV was such a low mark.


The 2 monitors are probably going to be ok. I don't know the specs on them, but if you're doing this on the cheap, I am sure you'll live with the limitations.

What limitations?


Does the machine have firewire? How are you planning on getting the video into the computer?

Yes this system has firewire ports. I won't be getting a tape deck anytime soon until they drop in price so it will be straight from my camera via firewire.

How do you plan on getting the HD video OUT of the computer? What will you master to? And what will your finished product be?

my final output will be to DVD.

Does the system have any audio capability? Is that important to you?

It has an audio card. I'm not sure how great though. Yes we do plan on recording voice overs.

Well I guess i'm out of the loop. I use an HV30 which is HDV. JVC HD100/110/200/250 all HDV until the GY-HM700. XH-A1/G1 both HDV but the H1 is HD.


All models designed and introduced years ago and nearing the end of their life cycles. JVC is already moving on in the consumer and pro lines. Tape is dying quickly. Sony has already started phasing out the HDV models in the prosumer space, has moved to tapeless further upmarket and downmarket.


Sense I don't have 5 to 8 grand to drop on a single camera i'm probably not going to put money into components for a computer designed to work with things I don't have.


I'd wager that AVCHD cameras in the $1200 price range will outperform most HDV cameras from a few years ago, save for the truly pro models like the detachable lens JVCs. The market is moving on very quickly indeed.


Don't get me wrong, I want the fastest possible system capable of editing anything but I didn't know HDV was such a low mark.


Sadly, HDV is the bottom of the HD world as far as codecs and recording systems go. Well, save for some of the REALLY poor little $300 consumer cams.


What limitations?


Refresh speed, ability to dial in color temp, ability to get anything near accurate color, adjustment, reflectivity, contrast ratio, etc.


Yes this system has firewire ports. I won't be getting a tape deck anytime soon until they drop in price so it will be straight from my camera via firewire.


Don't expect to see HDV decks doing anything but going away. They won't be coming down in price.



my final output will be to DVD.


That makes things VERY simple. So no thoughts about delivering HD in the future from your HD camera?



It has an audio card. I'm not sure how great though. Yes we do plan on recording voice overs.

Ok, well I guess you can upgrade your audio card any time.

Terry, you pretty much get what you pay for with computer equipment. After researching this and other forums for over a year and listening to Harm as well as others I ordered a custom built computer from avadirect for about $1,600 to edit P2 DVCPROHD material. In addition to that I bought Edius 5 with the HDSPARk HDTV output card from videoguys($750) and a 19" Samsung HDMI output viewing monitor from Frys for about $290. I now have a decent system that will last me for several years. In case you are interested here are my computer specs. I feel I spent a reasonable amount of money for performance.

ANTEC, Nine Hundred Two Black Mid-Tower Case w/ Window, ATX, No PSU

CORSAIR, CMPSU-650TX TX Series Power Supply, 650W, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, SLI Ready

ASUS, P6T Deluxe V2, LGA1366, Intel® X58, 6400 MT/s QPI, DDR3-2000MHz (O.C.) 24GB /6, PCIe x16 SLI CF /3, SATA 3 Gb/s RAID 5 /6, HDA, GbLAN /2, FW /2, ATX, Retail

INTEL, Core™ i7-920 Quad-Core 2.66GHz, LGA1366, 4.8 GT/s QPI, 8MB L3 Cache, 45nm, 130W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail

CORSAIR, 3GB (3 x 1GB) XMS3 PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (9-9-9-24) 1.65V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC

SAPPHIRE, Radeon™ HD 4830 575MHz, 512MB GDDR3 1800MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, VGA+DVI, HDMI, Retail

WESTERN DIGITAL, 160GB WD Caviar® SE (WD1600AAJS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 8MB cache

WESTERN DIGITAL, 1TB WD Caviar® Black™ (WD1001FALS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache

LITE-ON, iHAS324 Black 24x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ Smart Erase, SATA, Retail

SABRENT, CRW-UINB Black 65-in-1 Card Reader/Writer Drive, 3.5" Bay, Internal USB

CREATIVE, Sound Blaster® X-Fi Titanium, 7.1 channels, 24-bit 96KHz, PCIe x1

MICROSOFT, Wired Keyboard 500, Black, PS/2

MICROSOFT, Optical Wheel Mouse, PS/2 + USB, Black

MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM

WARRANTY, Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty)

All models designed and introduced years ago and nearing the end of their life cycles. JVC is already moving on in the consumer and pro lines. Tape is dying quickly. Sony has already started phasing out the HDV models in the prosumer space, has moved to tapeless further upmarket and downmarket.

I noticed everything is moving to solid state drives like the HM700. Amazing how just a few years ago everyone was buzzing about HDV on miniDV tapes and the ability to capture 720p and 1080i on on the A1 and HD110.

Sadly, HDV is the bottom of the HD world as far as codecs and recording systems go. Well, save for some of the REALLY poor little $300 consumer cams.

Well to be prepared what should I aim for? I guess I have really been in the dark on these different formats (HDV/HD/AVCHD) I've been reading some on wikipedia just to get a general idea but it seams like there is always something that pops up that I didn't know about :( Is there somewhere I can read on this stuff to get a concise and comprehensive understanding so I can be up to date!? Embarrassing to say "yea i'm into making films" and I don't even know this stuff haha.

Refresh speed, ability to dial in color temp, ability to get anything near accurate color, adjustment, reflectivity, contrast ratio, etc.

A 19" monitor will give me these disadvantages? Here is a link to the monitors Samsung 943SWX 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1360x768, 5ms, 15000:1 Dynamic, DVI, VGA, Black at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4635290&Sku=S203-1966). They were suggested by a friend but he doesn't know anything about video editing so this is why I ask on here.

That makes things VERY simple. So no thoughts about delivering HD in the future from your HD camera?

Here again comes my ignorance. I guess a DVD doesn't support HD? :)

Thanks for working through this with me!
Terry.

I noticed everything is moving to solid state drives like the HM700. Amazing how just a few years ago everyone was buzzing about HDV on miniDV tapes and the ability to capture 720p and 1080i on on the A1 and HD110.


No, not everyone was buzzing about HDV. Those who had been shooting miniDV on small tapes, were buzzing about HDV. Those used to FAR better quality codecs and video weren't all that excited. Neither were broadcast stations who still only regard HDV as standard def in many cases.


Well to be prepared what should I aim for? I guess I have really been in the dark on these different formats (HDV/HD/AVCHD) I've been reading some on wikipedia just to get a general idea but it seams like there is always something that pops up that I didn't know about :( Is there somewhere I can read on this stuff to get a concise and comprehensive understanding so I can be up to date!? Embarrassing to say "yea i'm into making films" and I don't even know this stuff haha.


I would say to be prepared, you should simply build the best machine you can afford. Then you'll have to make concessions to how you work based on what you can afford. Really, that's all you can do. Some of us are able to spend more money, and make fewer concessions. Some have to cut on a laptop. It is, what it is.



A 19" monitor will give me these disadvantages? Here is a link to the monitors Samsung 943SWX 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1360x768, 5ms, 15000:1 Dynamic, DVI, VGA, Black at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4635290&Sku=S203-1966). They were suggested by a friend but he doesn't know anything about video editing so this is why I ask on here.


It's not the fact that it's a 19" monitor. It's the fact that the monitor may really not be up to the task of editing video. Looking at Excel spreadsheets and Word documents is one thing, but video use is a lot more critical. Most bargain basement monitors don't do well with it. But if you can't spend any more money, then you can't.



Here again comes my ignorance. I guess a DVD doesn't support HD? :)


No, DVD is SD. BluRay is the standard for putting HD onto optical discs. There are other ways to view HD, but this is currently the standard way. There are some "tricks" to put a small amount of HD onto normal DVDs, but most BluRay players won't support this. And NO DVD players understand HD signals.


Thanks for working through this with me!
Terry.

That's why we're here.

It's not the fact that it's a 19" monitor. It's the fact that the monitor may really not be up to the task of editing video. Looking at Excel spreadsheets and Word documents is one thing, but video use is a lot more critical. Most bargain basement monitors don't do well with it. But if you can't spend any more money, then you can't.

Something like this?
LG W2253TQ-PF 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 50000:1, 2ms, 16:9, DVI, VGA, Black at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605325&Sku=L49-2216)




No, DVD is SD. BluRay is the standard for putting HD onto optical discs. There are other ways to view HD, but this is currently the standard way. There are some "tricks" to put a small amount of HD onto normal DVDs, but most BluRay players won't support this. And NO DVD players understand HD signals.

Well there are a few things I want to do with my final product. I've been working on a film for awhile now and when I get it completed I want to be able to show it in my campus theatre but I don't know what sort of equipment they have besides a projector. Last year someone did the same thing but they played it off their laptop on windows media player. I want to be able to do a little better than that..

I would also like to know a good format for presenting a reel to say a producer (haha) and maybe submitting to a film festival.

If all else fails i'll just make some DVDs for myself and the cast and crew. I suppose I would need a BluRay burner for that, but wouldn't the people watching my film need a BluRay player to get that quality?


Mark, thanks for positng your system. Why a single 160G HD with the 8MB cache?

Adam, That is an impressive machine.... What do you think about a 60G Solid State drive for the OS?

Again, thank you all for the help!

SSD's are still overpriced in comparison to hard disks. Hard to beat in read performance for single disks, but write performance, specially after several months of use, is disappointing. But technical progress and better controllers in SSD's, as well as declining prices may make them feasible in 1 or 2 years. If you are on a budget, forget them for the time being.

I have no experience with SSDs, so I will, as always, defer to Harm...

BTW, yes, to play BDs you need a BD player and you usually have to burn them in a BD burner. As has been posted here and there, it is possible to burn short Blu-Ray material to standard discs but you still need a BD burner and BD player.

As to the future of HDV, it's hard to argue with anything Perrone says, but it's important to understand that the "death" of this format really applies to the retail supply chain only. I suspect many people will be using this format for years to come, just as some consumers are still using VHS, Hi8 and other formats no longer really supported by new models. They're still making and selling those tapes, even if there are no new cams or decks on the horizon.

But that's really sort of a moot point as any PC you'd want to configure for video right now would need to at least be able to handle AVCHD or better, so the advice to just get the best you can afford is solid.

Something like this?
LG W2253TQ-PF 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 50000:1, 2ms, 16:9, DVI, VGA, Black at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605325&Sku=L49-2216)


Something more like this:

Dell UltraSharp 2009W Monitor Details (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-6523)




Well there are a few things I want to do with my final product. I've been working on a film for awhile now and when I get it completed I want to be able to show it in my campus theatre but I don't know what sort of equipment they have besides a projector. Last year someone did the same thing but they played it off their laptop on windows media player. I want to be able to do a little better than that..


Try to understand that the video itself is separate from the delivery medium these days. HD video can be presented on hard drive, USB thumb drive, BluRay, etc., and it is all of exactly the same quality. In fact, it can all be EXACTLY the same file(s). Delivering your HD video with Windows Media Player is entirely viable. It can play HD video as well as any BluRay player. It just does it from a laptop or PC instead of a BluRay player. In fact, that is how I deliver HD video for streaming at my building. I produce HD video, place it on my Windows Media Server, and stream out beautiful HD. Because it has to go out over the network, I don't encode that file at the same rate I would a bluray, but I certainly could.

It is important to understand how your campus projects. Or if they have any means of projecting HD at all.



I would also like to know a good format for presenting a reel to say a producer (haha) and maybe submitting to a film festival.


Festivals all have their own unique way of doing things, but they all give the delivery specs well before the submission deadline.


If all else fails i'll just make some DVDs for myself and the cast and crew. I suppose I would need a BluRay burner for that, but wouldn't the people watching my film need a BluRay player to get that quality?

You do NOT need a bluray burner to make DVDs. You need a bluray burner if you want to put HD video files on optical media. You can put HD video files on something beside optical media and give that to your cast/crew. Or you can put SD video files on regular DVD and give that to your cast/crew and you just need a regular DVD burner for that.

Try to understand that the video itself is separate from the delivery medium these days. HD video can be presented on hard drive, USB thumb drive, BluRay, etc., and it is all of exactly the same quality. In fact, it can all be EXACTLY the same file(s). Delivering your HD video with Windows Media Player is entirely viable. It can play HD video as well as any BluRay player. It just does it from a laptop or PC instead of a BluRay player. In fact, that is how I deliver HD video for streaming at my building. I produce HD video, place it on my Windows Media Server, and stream out beautiful HD. Because it has to go out over the network, I don't encode that file at the same rate I would a bluray, but I certainly could.

See I still have it in my mind that different mediums require different formats for those files to be in order for that medium to recognize it.

It is important to understand how your campus projects. Or if they have any means of projecting HD at all.

I will definately figure this out. Chances are I will have to do the same thing as the last guy. If you say there is no problem with that delivery method then i'll take your word for it.




You can put HD video files on something beside optical media and give that to your cast/crew.

I'm clueless here.. :)

I'm clueless here.. :)

Ok, let's see if we can separate things here:

What is HD?
HD = Video file that is 1920x1080 or 1280x720 and encoded in one of a million ways.


Popular encoding methods for HD Files:

WMV = Plays with Windows Media Player software. Standard on an PC

Mpeg4 = Plays with Quicktime, VLC, and many other free players on PC and Mac

AVC = Same/similar to Mpeg4 and also used as the file type to burn BluRay.

Mpeg2 = ONLY format suitable for SD DVD, and formerly used for BluRay disks. Generally needs a specialized reader.


Popular ways to deliver HD Files:

BluRay = Standard for Optical delivery of HD material. Need a BluRay burner to make them, need a BluRay reader to view.

USB Thumb Drive = Small storage format that plugs into any laptop or desktop PC or Mac.

SDHC = Small card based format that fits natively into many laptops, or with a USB adapter, can be used on nearly any PC or Mac

CompactFlash = Similar to SDHC but larger, and at the top end, faster.

Standard DVD = You can't fit a lot of BluRay media onto standard DVDs because of their size, but you can write them with a standard DVD burner. There are two ways to handle this. One, you can burn a standard data disk that can be played on any PC or Mac. You simply create one of the file types above at a size that will fit on the disk.

The other way to do this is to burn these using BluRay burning software. Not all machines support reading plain DVDs encoded like BluRays. The Playstation does, and a a small number of BluRay machines do. This is the least compatible way of getting BluRay out there and is really false economy now as BluRay Discs have gotten pretty cheap. When they were $30, this made sense. Now that you can get 25GB BluRay disks for $2.50, it's a lot harder to justify.


Keep in mind that if I encode my HD source media to an Mpeg4/AVC file, I can put that file on my hard drive and play it as HD. I can put it on a plain DVD and play it as HD. I can put it on an SDHC card and play it, I can burn it to a real BluRay disc and put it in a BluRay player and play it, etc. The media is just the delivery container. It says NOTHING about the file, or the quality of the file contained on it.

Terry,

A few months ago I ordered a Studio XPS Core i7 based computer from Dell for $1100. Had 6GB RAM an ATI graphics card (not the best...but...it works!) with 512MB on board, a 500GB internal drive, and a standard DVD burner. And more.

A couple of days ago one of the email offers I keep getting from them offered essentially the same machine with a 640GB hard drive for $958.

Some NLE packages that will take your video project from capture/import through editing and on to DVD or Blu-ray authoring (if you have the Blu-ray burner) cost around $100 or so.

I would waste no more time fiddling with obsolete components and therefore "trap yourself in the dust" left by the rest as they move with technology.

Oh...Both the Dell I bought and the current offer came with a 21.5 inch widescreen monitor.

Ok let me see if I understand this. What I am doing is transfering a analog information from my tape to a digital signal (high definition digital signal) which can be encoded into WMV, MPEG4, MPEG2 and AVC which are essentially "containers" which only define how the files are stored.

BluRay is standard for HD because you can fit much more information on a BluRay disc than you can a standard DVD. But to distribute them, people will need a BluRay player..?

I could encode my footage as a MPEG4 or AVC file and play it as HD right off of my computer or put it on a DVD and play it as HD (but the file can't exceed the DVD size)

So. My best bet for showing this film in HD in my university's theatre is keep it on my computer unless of course they have a BluRay player which can be projected on the big screen. If so, I should need a BluRay burner.

Or I could put my film on a thumb drive or external hard drive and show it on a projector from someone else's computer.

Well my computer build I hope can reflect some of the informaiton layed out by everyone here. I have chosen the following equipment to work with Sony Vegas 9.

1. Core i7 920
2. Biostar TPower X58A Motherboard (Biostar TPower X58A Motherboard - Intel X58, LGA 1366, ATX, Audio, PCI Express 2.0, CrossFire Ready, SLI Ready, Dual Gigabit LAN at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4682311&CatId=13))
3. 1TB Western Digital 7200rpm 32mb cache
4. OCZ Tri channel memory DDR3 PC15000 (3GB)
5. Monitor. I chose (LG W2253TQ-PF 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 50000:1, 2ms, 16:9, DVI, VGA, Black at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605325&CatId=2775)) I compaired the specs to the Dell UltraSharp 2009W that you gave me the link to and the LG provides 50,000:1 Dynamic contrast ratio, 2ms response time and 1080p Full HD resolution where as the Dell has a 2000:1 ratio and 5ms response time. Is there something I am missing?

The sixth item on my list was a super fast hard drive for my operating system but I can't find a decently priced one.

Then there would be a bluray burner but as they are around $200, I will hold off for now.

Sound decent?

Ok let me see if I understand this. What I am doing is transfering a analog information from my tape to a digital signal (high definition digital signal) which can be encoded into WMV, MPEG4, MPEG2 and AVC which are essentially "containers" which only define how the files are stored.


In the general sense we are speaking, you are getting it pretty well. I'll hold off on the semantics of a codec versus a container for now, but your idea is exactly right.


BluRay is standard for HD because you can fit much more information on a BluRay disc than you can a standard DVD. But to distribute them, people will need a BluRay player..?


Correct.


I could encode my footage as a MPEG4 or AVC file and play it as HD right off of my computer or put it on a DVD and play it as HD (but the file can't exceed the DVD size)


Also correct.


So. My best bet for showing this film in HD in my university's theatre is keep it on my computer unless of course they have a BluRay player which can be projected on the big screen. If so, I should need a BluRay burner.


Yep!


Or I could put my film on a thumb drive or external hard drive and show it on a projector from someone else's computer.


Right. It's possible the projector may have a USB port in which you could plug straight in.


Well my computer build I hope can reflect some of the informaiton layed out by everyone here. I have chosen the following equipment to work with Sony Vegas 9.


Do be aware that Vegas 9 has been buggy for some folks. Mine has been bulletproof, but I tend to not install like others do. Just watch yourself.


1. Core i7 920
2. Biostar TPower X58A Motherboard (Biostar TPower X58A Motherboard - Intel X58, LGA 1366, ATX, Audio, PCI Express 2.0, CrossFire Ready, SLI Ready, Dual Gigabit LAN at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4682311&CatId=13))
3. 1TB Western Digital 7200rpm 32mb cache
4. OCZ Tri channel memory DDR3 PC15000 (3GB)
5. Monitor. I chose (LG W2253TQ-PF 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 50000:1, 2ms, 16:9, DVI, VGA, Black at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605325&CatId=2775)) I compaired the specs to the Dell UltraSharp 2009W that you gave me the link to and the LG provides 50,000:1 Dynamic contrast ratio, 2ms response time and 1080p Full HD resolution where as the Dell has a 2000:1 ratio and 5ms response time. Is there something I am missing?


List looks pretty good, but the RAM is a bit short. If you are going to do much work with HD, I recommend 8GB of RAM and a 64bit OS. Windows 7 comes out shortly and it's excellent. We've been running it for months at my office with no problems. Monitor choice looks ok too.

Just a warning on the Hard drive. HD takes up a LOT of room. HDV like your camrea is HIGHLY compressed. And when you put it on your computer you can either choose to edit in that highly compressed format, or you can expand it into a format that is more suitable for editing. If you choose the later, you'll be looking at about 1GB per minute or more. Uncompressed HD is 550GB per hour, but not many people try to edit in uncompressed. But it would not be unusual to see something like 100GB per hour or so for a good editing format. Plan accordingly.


The sixth item on my list was a super fast hard drive for my operating system but I can't find a decently priced one.


The OS does not need a superfast hard drive. A 7200RPM drive is MORE than sufficient. The entire OS kernal will fit into RAM, reducing the need for a lot of speedy hard drive.


Then there would be a bluray burner but as they are around $200, I will hold off for now.


Many people are holding off. I will ask you to consider this. You have your originals on tape. You put all of it on the timeline, edit, color, etc. Then you create a finished master file with all your hours of work. How will you save that file? It will be 20GB per hour or so. I hear many people talk about not buying bluray because they have the original tapes on the shelves. Terrific. But what about all that work you just did? Do you choose not to protect it? I bought a BluRay recorder not to deliver BluRay disks for clients, but to archive my hard work. With 25GB discs costing about $2.50, it's CHEAP insurance.


Sound decent?

Sounds very good. Just be sure to think ALL the way through your projects, from beginning to end, so you buy what you actually need.

Nice job, Terry -- looks like you've got this pretty much nailed. Just a couple of minor and possibly irrelevant clarifications:

The tape from your cam is digital, too, not analog (assuming we're talking DV, HDV or even Dig8. VHS, Hi8, etc were analog). But doesn't really change anything you said.

There is, however, some debate about how fast your system drive should be. Remember, your NLE (Vegas) will likely be on that drive as well, and maybe even your project files, so there will be a lot going on. Many people feel it's necessary to have a really fast system drive for that reason -- mine is 10K so I obviously drank that Kool-Aid. Maybe foolishly.

Anyway, something to think about.

In the general sense we are speaking, you are getting it pretty well. I'll hold off on the semantics of a codec versus a container for now, but your idea is exactly right.

I learn from the best! I can handle a bit of technical stuff if you don't mind explaining :)List looks pretty good, but the RAM is a bit short. If you are going to do much work with HD, I recommend 8GB of RAM and a 64bit OS. Windows 7 comes out shortly and it's excellent. We've been running it for months at my office with no problems. Monitor choice looks ok too.

I can get a copy of Windows 7. I have a friend who has a software subscription for her company.

Just a warning on the Hard drive. HD takes up a LOT of room. HDV like your camrea is HIGHLY compressed. And when you put it on your computer you can either choose to edit in that highly compressed format, or you can expand it into a format that is more suitable for editing. If you choose the later, you'll be looking at about 1GB per minute or more. Uncompressed HD is 550GB per hour, but not many people try to edit in uncompressed. But it would not be unusual to see something like 100GB per hour or so for a good editing format. Plan accordingly.

So the best way to edit my footage is to bring it in uncompressed (which Vegas will give me an option for?). What would be the advantages of this? Just curious so I can explain the reason instead of "well I heard from someone"



The OS does not need a superfast hard drive. A 7200RPM drive is MORE than sufficient. The entire OS kernal will fit into RAM, reducing the need for a lot of speedy hard drive.

So I can put the OS and Vegas on the 1TB HD? Or should I still get another HD?



Many people are holding off. I will ask you to consider this. You have your originals on tape. You put all of it on the timeline, edit, color, etc. Then you create a finished master file with all your hours of work. How will you save that file? It will be 20GB per hour or so. I hear many people talk about not buying bluray because they have the original tapes on the shelves. Terrific. But what about all that work you just did? Do you choose not to protect it? I bought a BluRay recorder not to deliver BluRay disks for clients, but to archive my hard work. With 25GB discs costing about $2.50, it's CHEAP insurance.

Very good point. A bluray burner is definately in the future.

Nice job, Terry -- looks like you've got this pretty much nailed.

Thanks!


There is, however, some debate about how fast your system drive should be. Remember, your NLE (Vegas) will likely be on that drive as well, and maybe even your project files, so there will be a lot going on. Many people feel it's necessary to have a really fast system drive for that reason -- mine is 10K so I obviously drank that Kool-Aid. Maybe foolishly.

So in other words the hard drive you have doesn't compensate for the amount of stuff you are putting on it but makes up in speed?

So the best way to edit my footage is to bring it in uncompressed (which Vegas will give me an option for?). What would be the advantages of this? Just curious so I can explain the reason instead of "well I heard from someone"


I am absolutely NOT saying uncompressed is the best way to edit. Far from it. I am only saying that in some instances you may need uncompressed and to plan for that. But in any event, you are going to need some room. Many people under-plan their drive space. When I work on a project, I've got the raw materials out of the camera, an HD master, an SD master, and then my final master render. For some of my conference work that can be 3 HD copies of a 4-8 hour conference. Plan accordingly.


So I can put the OS and Vegas on the 1TB HD? Or should I still get another HD?


If you get 2 HDs for your system, then you put your OS and programs on one, and your video on the other. If you have 3 drives, I would put the OS and Vegas on one, the original files on one drive, and render to the third. This idea of putting Vegas on a separate drive from the OS is something I just don't get.


Very good point. A bluray burner is definately in the future.

A BluRay burner will quickly become your new best friend. I will be moving my entire miniDV tape collection to BluRay next year.

The outline for my system that I have currently is just to get me going. I definately plan on upping my Hard drive space in the future. As for now, I am building a system that is prepared to take on any challenge I may encounter. Maybe not ANY, but atleast be equipt with equipment that I can add to in the future and the machine still be adequate.

So my current build's main stay is the Core i7, the 22" LG monitor, the Biostar mother board, 8 gig of RAM, the 1tb WD hard drive and a seperate hard drive for my OS. When more money is free I will add another hard drive, maybe more RAM and a second monitor.

The problem now is that my money is being spread out into different projects all in the effort to make a film. This little system will cost me quite a bit of that budget but I feel it is necessary. The only thing I haven't added to this system's cost is Vegas itself which retail is $600. I am also considering Cineform so that I can remove pulldown from the 24pf of the HV30.

Why would you opt for 8 GB of RAM on an i7 system, when the only sensible options are 6 or 12 GB with DDR3?

So in other words the hard drive you have doesn't compensate for the amount of stuff you are putting on it but makes up in speed?I'm sorry; I'm not understanding your question.

My C: (system) drive is small but fast, because all I have on it are the OS and Programs, and as this is an editing-only dedicated machine, there's not a lot on it other than Windows, Premiere and Cineform. I have the swap file on a different drive.

Perrone's advice, above, is best: "the OS and Vegas on one, the original [captured raw video] files on [a second] drive, and render to the third."

WRT RAM and Harm's question above, I think many people are confused because previously, RAM always seemed to be installed in multiples if 2 or 4, but with the new i7 it seems to be in multiples of 3. I'm not smart enough to know why.

Adam,

I think I know you somewhat and you are intentionally inviting me to add some background info for others. Well, I fell for it. You succeeded.

On computers, memory was either organized as DDR2, dual channel memory or lately as DDR3, triple channel memory. In the old ages we had DDR or single channel memory. Compare that to a road, single channel memory is comparable to a single lane and when you meet another car going in the opposing direction, you have to slow down, get to a bypass and let the other driver pass you. With dual channel memory you get a dual lane for traffic, so one can easily drive on on his designated lane, while a driver from the other side can drive on his lane without delays. A lot of improvement. But still we got traffic jams, so we invented a new approach, triple channel memory or triple lanes in traffic, as we see them in France for example. It makes for better flow of traffic, as it does with better flow of data to and from memory.

Currently the most economic memory sticks are 2 GB sticks.

On DDR2 (LGA 775) boards that will allow for 4 sticks of 2 GB each, totaling 8 GB. This will allow dual channel/lane operation as designated in the number 2 in DDR2.

On DDR3 (LGA 1366) boards that will allow for 6 sticks of 2 GB each, totaling 12 GB. This will allow triple channel/lane operation as designated in the number 3 in DDR3.

This is a very simplified approach (and therefore not very accurate for the techies here) that may help to understand the bare basics of memory.

BTW, I was asked by my son to help him (mostly it is the other way around) to design a new server for his own use (not business) and he only required VM ESX/ESXi support, so we ended up looking at the HP ProLiant G6 with dual X5570's, 72 GB RDDR3 ECC (18 sticks), 4 FlexNet NIC's, HP Smart Array and separate housing for 6 G SAS SFF disks and iLO capability.....I'll tell you about that by private mail.

Why would you opt for 8 GB of RAM on an i7 system, when the only sensible options are 6 or 12 GB with DDR3?

Well I opted for 8GB simply because Perrone suggestion it :)

Adam, I suppose I didn't understand what you mean by your post. Maybe you meant its not necessary to have a super fast system drive? Should I just get a low GB hard drive that spins 7200rpm or..?


Something else I forgot to ask about - Graphics card. I have heard that a good one isn't really necessary you just need one better than the onboard for Vegas.

Terry,

For the boot disk capacity is not really important, anything with 150+ GB will do. It is a waste of space to use a 1 TB disk, when you only have 60-80 GB in use. But the faster the disk is, the better, because during editing the program (in your case Vegas) will need certain DLL's, depending on your editing, Windows will need to perform housekeeping chores and they all need to come from the boot disk.

As always it depends on your budget. If you can afford it, get a WD Velociraptor 150, but if that is just a bit much, consider a 7200 RPM 160 G or larger disk.

For a graphics card, I am partial to ATI. Most NLE's will not profit much from the top cards. If you do not use 3D applications, nVidia Quadro cards are a waste of money IMO. In a direct comparison ATI usually is a lot cheaper than comparable nVidia cards, so my personal preference would go to an ATI card in the 48xx range, rather than the nVidia GTX 28x/29x range. All of these cards are good, but if you can get a 4890 for $ 200 instead of a GTX 285 for $ 300, consider investing in the ATI and use the saving for another disk. Performance wise you will be hard pressed to notice any difference between these video cards for editing.

Performance wise you will be hard pressed to notice any difference between these video cards for editing.

While this is true, I kept noticing that applications that I wanted to use only supported the NVidia card on PC. So I went that way on both the laptop and desktop. It's funny that I seem to experience very few of the issues that seem to plague other users. I have Quadro cards installed. Expensive, but worth it in my view.

While this is true, I kept noticing that applications that I wanted to use only supported the NVidia card on PC. So I went that way on both the laptop and desktop. It's funny that I seem to experience very few of the issues that seem to plague other users. I have Quadro cards installed. Expensive, but worth it in my view.

First of all, I don't use Vegas, but Adobe CS4 MC, so that is a significant difference.

Adobe recently had some problems with nVidia cards, but that was not the reason of my preference for ATI. The reason is purely 'bang-for-the-buck' based.

The reason I'm not fond of nVidia Quadro cards is that the drivers claim almost exclusive rights to the PCI-e bus, thereby drastically slowing down disk performance when using a PCI-e raid controller. When that happens, all the performance gains from a high-end card disappear when the I/O system is slowed down to a crawl. The marginal advantage of Quadro cards in NLE (not talking about 3D applications) in comparison to the more affordable GTX or ATI cards do not warrant the price difference IMO.

In gamers land the video card is much touted and even SLI with 2, 3, or even 4 cards are popular. In NLE land this is a plain waste of money with current software.

Alright so far my machine comes to a total of $1003.44 with shipping.

Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS Hard Drive - 1TB, 32MB, SATA-300

BIOSTAR TPOWER X58A LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard (open box from newegg.. Think I can trust that? Its considerably cheaper this rout..)

OCZ DDR3 PC3-14400 Platinum Series Low-Voltage Triple Channel (6GB)

LG W2253TQ-PF 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 50000:1, 2ms, 16:9, DVI, VGA

i7 920

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb

Bluray burner will hold for now.

I now have to get Sony Vegas which = $600. Know anyway I can get it cheaper..like for free on a burnt disc or from a university?

Again, thanks everyone for your help. I really appreciate it.
Terry.

First of all, I don't use Vegas, but Adobe CS4 MC, so that is a significant difference.

In gamers land the video card is much touted and even SLI with 2, 3, or even 4 cards are popular. In NLE land this is a plain waste of money with current software.

Well, being able to support cutting RED was a need I had. Until Vegas 9.0, the only way to do that was with RedCine. Redcine did not support ATI on the PC at all. Zero. So for me it was a practical choice of buying a card that my application supported, or trying to save a few bucks.

I now have to get Sony Vegas which = $600. Know anyway I can get it cheaper..like for free on a burnt disc or from a university?


You're going to find that people typically take a very dim view on this kind of thing here. While we may have our issues with companies that make NLEs, we know that our dollars go to support these companies, and we rely on them heavily for support. Getting hacked versions does nothing to help them, or us. And many of us will not offer any assistance to users who have hacked versions. I know I won't and have seen other professionals do the same.

Some universities offer programs to their students for free. The tuition pays for the program. My university only has Final Cut Xpress.

I understand your point. I didn't mean getting a ripped version, just something that I didn't have to go into debt over. Like some people share computer games I just don't know anyone who has Vegas. I'll just buy it.

Some universities offer programs to their students for free. The tuition pays for the program. My university only has Final Cut Xpress.

I understand your point. I didn't mean getting a ripped version, just something that I didn't have to go into debt over. Like some people share computer games I just don't know anyone who has Vegas. I'll just buy it.

If you are a student, Vegas, Avid, Premiere, all have student versions. You might look into that.

If you are a student, Vegas, Avid, Premiere, all have student versions. You might look into that.

will I be disadvantaged by a student version in anyway?

Depends on the application. In Vegas... no. In Avid, yes.

Hey Terry, sorry to jump back in so late, but in regard to the system HDD, Harm put it better than I did... even if there's not a lot on your system drive, there's a lot of activity going on during the editing, so while size isn't critical, I think speed is. Looks like the choice you made is a good one.

Although in other threads Harm has warned against Green drives. I assume this may have something to do with spin-down during power-saving operations, possibly making the drive too slow to respond when needed.