I got the XLR-Pro for my VX's. I like it 2 xlr ports and 2 mini ports, plus a ground switch. Noise on one, switch to the other.

Gassers here in the city (SF) has the beachtek for $210 ($227.85 w/tax) Is this a good deal? Mike, can I pickup a prefabricated XLR adaptor at Radio Shack or Zakits in Vallejo? I'm not bad with an iron but would rather get one I can complain about if it doesn't work :) Also, if I'm trying to connect my mono mic to the VX2000 I will have problems, so if I use an adaptor will I still get problems especailly hiss from the voltage or phantom power? Wouldn't the beachtek or similar device filter out the voltage and hiss?

Radio Shack has only adapter cables to my knowledge. Sometimes those work very well. Zakits does not have one as far as I know.

Any of the transformer-coupled XLR adapters will, by their very nature, block DC voltage.

The best way to connect a mono microphone to a stereo input is to replace the mono output connector with a stereo plug that matches the input socket of the camera. You can connect the signal to just one side or both sides of the input.

Mike, you ever deal with Snader RE and Assoc. in San Rafael? Would they be the best place to get my PD150? They quoted me a price of $3295.00.

Yes, I've dealt with Snader before. I consider them to be among the reputable firms in Northern California. Unfortunately, all of them charge higher prices than do the reputable NY city firms.

I'll just mention that the camera is selling for a nickle under $3,000 from B&H in New York.

The camera kit with the Petrol case and rain jacket is going for $3,279.95 from them.

Of course you have to add shipping but that's only $20 or so. Just make certain you request that they insure the shipment.

Since ZGC sponsors this web site, I'd also give them a shot at your business. They have a good reputation. Unfortunately they don't say much about Sony on their Web site as they are Canon-centric.

After a search on this site, I'd say they are Canon only based on their posted comments. Some of the PD150 accessories they have sound very nice if expensive.

>Wouldn't the beachtek or similar device filter out the voltage and hiss?<

That's why there is the BBX VX2000 fix.

The BBC fix? What exactly is the BBC fix any how? I'm not talking about the notorious hiss that was found in the older or first batch of Vx2000's /PD150. Apparently, my particular camera doesn't have this problem, but the hiss I'm talking about is the hiss you get from voltage when you plug in a mic with voltage.

I'm curious about the BBC fix. What does this thing entail?

There info here about it:

http://www.global-dvc.org/

oops, my bad. I researched this problem on the net and it seems to be inherit to all VX2000's but for some odd reason I haven't heard it on mine, is there a test I can do to see if mine is affected?

I was referring to this snipet I found in equipment emporium's website: "The box features DC blocking and almost no internal loss of mic signal (unlike certain other brands). It is less expensive than the original XLR-PRO boxes."

I'm guessing that they are referring to the Beachtek.

Sony has this in their website regarding this hiss issue:

http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/service/dcrvx2000.shtml

"DCR-VX2000/E Audio Recording Information:

It has recently come to our attention that some purchasers of the Sony DCR-VX2000 camcorder have had questions about audio recording. We thought it might be helpful to clarify the use of the manual and automatic gain controls.

" The Sony DCR-VX2000/E camcorder features a newly developed AGC audio level control circuit, optimized to handle the large Dynamic Range of Digital Audio. Design emphasis was given to the task of achieving a significant improvement in Signal to Noise ratio, and to greatly enhance camera audio recording quality.

Manual Audio level adjustment does not utilize the new AGC circuit. Manual Audio control is primarily provided for extremely loud and limiting sound environments. The conventional Manual Audio Level is comparable to Signal to Noise ratio values commonly found in Sony's comparable consumer digital camcorders. A difference in Signal to Noise Ratio levels between Manual and AGC modes of operation is normal and expected in DCR-VX2000/E.

Evaluation of Audio Signal to Noise should not be performed using earphone / headphone output. The earphone / headphone amplifier circuit has been equalized to emphasize high frequencies and is intended to be of "monitoring" quality. Furthermore, the earphone / headphone audio may not accurately represent record level audio since the earphone / headphone level can be varied using the volume +/- buttons near the LCD screen. Audio Signal to Noise evaluation should more properly be performed by playing back recorded tapes on a studio VTR.' "

Is this Sony's way of giving us the runaround? Or is this all true that we should only use manual gain when it is in "very noisy" environments?

This is a really old, Sony built-in pre-amp issue. The VX2000 and PD150 do not have the best audio. Sony even offered secret audio fixes, for a price, and it didn't do much to improve the problem. However, this problem has been blown out of proportion, and re-hashed to death. If you keep the gain down, the audio is much better. If you couple that with a Beachtek, or other XLR adaptor (for the VX) and a good mic, the audio will be further improved. One step further would be the "BBC fix." It entails changing some wires around in the cam, adding a Glenbox XLR adaptor, and a good mic---such as the Sennheiser ME66.

Here's an item from my desktop wish list you might want to check out:

 XLRH8/DV cable Adapts XLR to stereo mini, bridges audio over Left and Right camcorder channels to eliminate noise. Blocks any stray voltage at camcorder input. Note: Some miniDV camcorders may not require voltage blocking. However, most Sony's work best with this cable. http://www.equipmentemporium.com/audiofor.htm USD$50

The story I heard was that Sony would fix the audio problem on the PD-150's for no cost, but either charged people or wouldn't fix it at all on the VX-2000 (I just don't remember which was the case). But as it was mentioned, manually lowering the mic gain makes everything work nicely (about 2-3 steps below the mid-level will keep you from red-lining in most situations).

I have both. First purchased the Beachtek. Had lots of noise, crackling, etc. when I used it. Finally purchased the XL Pro and love it! No more problems plus it has Ground 1 and Ground 2 so you can lose the noise most of the time!!

Remove the Beachtec top cover and scrape the black paint off of the covers inside lip and the top edge of the box. That problem was a simply someone doing too good a paint job. The box was not grounded to the cover due to the isulating qualities of the paint. Because of that small glitch the Beach was labelled crap by a whole herd of users. Had you called BeachTec they would have told you right away.

Yeah, that's what my friend did too---scraped the paint a bit. The Beachtek works like a charm (and so does his 2 VX2000s).

Does anyone use the Glenbox here?

Bryan: Well, indeed I spoke with BeachTek a couple years ago 3 times and no one ever mentioned this. I got tired of spending hours and money on long distance calls to Canada. They never solved the problem so I went with another company which I'm happy with. It's great that other people did receive help and were able to make use of the unit. I will try this and see if it works so I can use it as a back up. I've been meaning to sell it to someone who could troubleshoot it but haven't gotten around to it.

Wait, my Beachtek that I just recently purchased, mentioned scraping paint of the VX2000's Tripod mounting plate (where the screws mate with the plate), so I have to scrape the paint of the beachtek as well? Please clarify. I did exactly what the manual has stated and while using a AZDEN SGM-2X Shotgun Mic from the headphones I can hear a hiss, real quiet on the background but irritating enough. Is this the dreaded VX2K hiss or is this a grounding issue using the beachtek? Even with AGC on I get the hiss, manual it gets a littel better sinc eI can turn up the volume. The third possiblity is what Sony mentioned, do not give much regard to hisses from the headphones since it has something to do with the amplified circuits. I tried to monitor the playback and it was seemingly clean, and I get the same results from the VX9K through the headphones, but it seems to be clean when I play back using the RCA cables to the TV. I haven't tried to capture it digitally and check. Also the last possibility is that the Beachtek is crap. :)

Frank,

I've actually just got a glensound box for an unmodified VX2000. I didn't want my camera modified for warranty reason etc, I know on the glensound site it says there's no real point in using the glensound box with an unmodified VX2000 but I called them and they explained the web site is a bit out of date and there are good reasons to use the box with an unmodified camera. So basically with the glensound box you switch the camera to manual audio control, bring the level on the camera down a good bit then let the glensound box do the rest of the work. There are limiters in the box which means even when you're on manual audio level you get absolutely no distortion when the audio peaks. I've only had it a few days so am still playing around with it, but so far I'm very impressed with it. Even with the audio set to manual and getting a good volume shouting into the mic causes no clipping or distortion whatsoever. Once I've had a proper chance to play with it I'll post more thoughts.

John.

Is there anywhere to buy used xlr adapters for vx2k. Havent seen anything on ebay.

Garret
The new units should be ok. The hiss is most likely not caused by the Beach. Do you have your pots set for no attenuation (10)and the switch set to mic (not line)The camera audio input switch should be set for mic, the audio on manual and the gain set about 40%.

If you've got the gain cranked up you will get the dreaded hiss. If anything I have to attenuate to cut down and i don't get hiss.

Bryan, thanks, but actually I scrape off the paint and dang it had like a thick tar-like black substance that was kind of hard to get rid off. It did sound much better, I compared the on board vs. the SGM2x both at Manual and AGC and at high gains, yes I noticed that I get the hiss, but the hiss from the headphones was present regardless whether or not it is on the external and the built-in. Only was to rid off it was to turn down the monitoring volume , but almost to a point where I can't hear the audio. Any suggestions?

Thanks, John Steele, for your Glenbox feedback. Any further info would be appreciated.

Greetings,

I need to connect a VX2000 to an Azden SGM-2X. Do I absolutely need a XLR BP Pro or a Beachtek? Will it be OK if I use a custom made XLR to 1/8 cable?

No you don't have to have an adapter. A straight cable may work well. If you get a humm in the sound, you may need to put a blocking capacitor in series with the signal lead to block the 3 VDC that the camera places on the line to power electret microphones.

Dear Mike,

Once again, thank you very much.

I use this same setup and I haven't detected any kind of hum or other interference. Just use the shortest cable you can to eliminate any impedance matching problems.

Strictly speaking, the cable length has nothing to do with impedence matching until you get soooo long that cable capacitance starts to make a contribution.

Impedance matching was much more important when the input impedance of the system was way down compared to the output impedance of the microphone.

Today, with the high imput impedance of the camcorder inputs, the issue is not too important. I'll still match impedances if I can but in real-world industrial/wedding video, it doesn't matter much.

I hope that some audio experts read this and comment on my questions near the end of this posting.

So far, the Beachtek and the Sign Video XLR to mini-jack mike adaptors are the only ones I've checked. Which is best and are there any others to use with a VX2100?

How do these things manage to work without added power? I'd think that the weak mike signals wouldn't be enough to run passive adaptor boxes like these.

I already have my XLR mikes connected with XLR female plugs at the mike ends and 3-wire cords, with special connections into 1/8th-inch mini-plugs. I have combined the return (negative) and balance wires inside the shielded 1/8th-inch mini-plug housings. So, there is no exposure of a two-wire mike connector outside my camcorders. I did this wiring exactly as I was instructed over the phone by the chief design engineer of the company that made my mikes. He said this was the best configuration to get the most out of XLR mikes, when used with mini-plug camcorders. They had once produced an alternate version of this model of mike, equipped with a mini-plug. It was connected with a 3-wire cord, the same way I assembled my connectors.

Since the XLR adaptor units use an unbalanced and exposed two-wire cord, 10 or 13 inches long, to connect their mini mike plugs to camcorders, what is the advantage of my using such an adaptor? I'm not considering the benefits of the dual volume knobs and other control features in asking this. Is all the extra shielding value of the 3rd wire in my cords lost by not having an XLR-equipped camcorder into which to connect them, even though this wire is dead-ended properly to the return wire inside the mini-plug? Would I in fact, get a better mike signal into a VX2100 with an adaptor unit, than by just using the connectors I already have for my XLR mikes?

Steve McDonald

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve McDonald : I hope that some audio experts read this and comment on my questions near the end of this posting.

So far, the Beachtek and the Sign Video XLR to mini-jack mike adaptors are the only ones I've checked. Which is best and are there any others to use with a VX2100?
--------------------
I have experience with the Sign Video adapters. They work very well.
---------------------
How do these things manage to work without added power? I'd think that the weak mike signals wouldn't be enough to run passive adaptor boxes like these.
--------------------------
Not really. As long as you don't have any attenuation cut in, they only lose signal across the transformer and that isn't very much
----------------------
I already have my XLR mikes connected with XLR female plugs at the mike ends and 3-wire cords, with special connections into 1/8th-inch mini-plugs. I have combined the return (negative) and balance wires inside the shielded 1/8th-inch mini-plug housings. So, there is no exposure of a two-wire mike connector outside my camcorders. I did this wiring exactly as I was instructed over the phone by the chief design engineer of the company that made my mikes. He said this was the best configuration to get the most out of XLR mikes, when used with mini-plug camcorders. They had once produced an alternate version of this model of mike, equipped with a mini-plug. It was connected with a 3-wire cord, the same way I assembled my connectors.
------------------------
The problem is that your entire system is then unbalanced and very susceptable to RFI.
---------------------------
Since the XLR adaptor units use an unbalanced and exposed two-wire cord, 10 or 13 inches long, to connect their mini mike plugs to camcorders, what is the advantage of my using such an adaptor? I'm not considering the benefits of the dual volume knobs and other control features in asking this. Is all the extra shielding value of the 3rd wire in my cords lost by not having an XLR-equipped camcorder into which to connect them, even though this wire is dead-ended properly to the return wire inside the mini-plug? Would I in fact, get a better mike signal into a VX2100 with an adaptor unit, than by just using the connectors I already have for my XLR mikes?
------------------------
The XLR adapter allows a balanced run all the way into the adapter. Only the short lead from the adapter to the camera is unbalanced.

Length of the unbalanced lead(s) are the issue here. The longer the lead, the more of an antenna it becomes. You would have to be in a very strong RFI field before the 1 foot lead would give you much of a problem.
-------------------------
Steve McDonald -->>>

For my money, I'd buy the Beach Tek DXA-8. run a search, there's been a fair bit posted,

The DXA will give you

1. The balanced inputs you need

2. 15 db of gain, That will bring the audio unput to a level where the camera preamps won't have much to do. The camera preamp is the weak point in the equation.

3. 48 volt Phantom power. This will allow you to use almost any mic. You won't have to rely on battery powered models.

4. Limiters. rather than distort, the input will be compressed. You won't lose valuable audio if the audio levels dramatically increase.

This unit will attach to the bottom of the camera the same way the other adapters do.

Hey Bryan,

Why wouldn't you use a battery-powered microphone preamp instead of an XLR box? I have never used a portable mic pre but imaging that they can handle balanced in and drive a line-level output while providing Phantom Power as well.

?

Thanks for the replies and advice. I'll add that I set up my XLR mikes originally to work with a Canon L-1. They have produced very clean audio on every mini-plug camcorder with which I've used them. Since I've connected them with only 16 inches of 3-cord wire, which was just enough to reach from their positions on the mounting crossbar, this may have limited the interference potential.

I've determined that I would need only 6 inches of 2-wire cord to reach from an XLR adaptor to the mini-jack on a VX2100.
I would attach the adaptor to the underside of the shoulder-mount rig I use, just below the lens. If I shorten the 10 or 13 inch cords that come on these adaptors and reattach them in a shielded, right-angle mini-plug, would I avoid any detectable amount of interference?

I've found some ads for "double-balanced" XLR cords and connectors, that use 4 wires. Has anyone had experience with this type or an evaluation of it?

Steve McDonald

I think this is Quad-Star cable that has the most resistance to common mode interference. I don't think most of us require that level of protection but if you are going after every little dB of S/N, then it could be important.

That said, you wouldn't use a stock Sony to record the audio in the first place.

Short bits of unbalanced wiring aren't going to noticably hurt you unless you get near a strong radio (like a police car) or something similar. Maybe right next to a motor or flourescent light might get you a little noise.

Mike
The DXA8 outputs to mic level. With most mics it will alow the on camera gain to be less than 25%. It is a battery operated unit and it does provide all of the features i listed.

The beauty of the DXA8 is it's compact, well laid out and attaches to the tripod mount.

I agree that line level would be marginally better but none of those type of units are in as small a package as the Beach. The 6" cord that connects to the mic in shouldn't cause any
interference

"How do these things manage to work without added power? I'd think that the weak mike signals wouldn't be enough to run passive adaptor boxes like these."

The passive adapters don't work well, they rely on high output mics and the camera preamp


"Would I in fact, get a better mike signal into a VX2100 with an adaptor unit, than by just using the connectors I already have for my XLR mikes?"

Do you mean running direct on an XLR to mini stereo adapter cable? The answer is the homebrew cable works and is ok for a short run.

Without a preamp you will still depend on the cameras preamp and they will give a less than perfect audio if they are set up over 50-60%

For longer runs the transformers in the adapter will isolate the cable from the Beach or Sign Video unit to the mic.

I think you need to read some back posts here and at dv.com

The beauty of the DXA8 is it's compactSmall enough for my cams, Bryan? Would it work okay with my Apex?

Yes it would, but do you need it?

The DXA-8 fit on my TRV20

Been a while since I logged onto this site, but at least for the VX 2000 BBC is a strong proponent of the Glensound XLR adapter even without the BBC modifications. I never could get an answer from Glensound website however, so my impression is they have bigger fish to fry than dealing with prosumer clientele.

Does anyone know if the hot shoe XLR adapter from a PD-100 or PDX10 will work on a VX2000?

Is there a difference between the PD-100 and PDX10 adapter?

I think not, just had a look. The PDX-10 adaptor wedged about halfway so I did't push any further. But looking more closely, here's my ASCII art impression of the VX-2000 hot shoe, which is actually 8 continuous contact bars:

||||||||
||||||||

But on the PDX-10 it's split into 14 separate contact bars with empty space in the middle like this:

||||||||
|
|||||| |

Probably has to do with phantom power on the separate channels or something. The other problem would be that the PDX-10 has both a "dumb shoe" that's used to attach the XLR box and a "smart shoe" that's used for the cable from the box. So even if you could make it work on the VX-2000 you'd need some sort of external bracket to mount it.

I never used a PD-100, but I thought I read it used a mini-jack to connect the XLR box instead of a hot shoe? Personally, I have a Beachtek box for my VX-2000...

Thanks. There is an adapter on ebay for cheap and was wondering if it would do the job.

I use the Sign Video adapter myself, but am in the market for another vx2000 and was looking ahead for the necessary accessories.

I've been using a PD-100 XLR adapter that I got from Ebay on my VX-2000 for a couple of years now. It works great, but it is on backwards as compared to the PD-100.

I always had a feeling those PD100 adapters would work on a VX.Laurence do you have any pix of your set up? I think you could actually purchase these xlr boxes from Sony at one point in time.

They have, as far as I know, been used on 2000's almost from the start. Problem is the adapter was over $400 IIRC. Made an after-market XLR adapter box very attractive.

I just recently recieved a XV2100 to add as my A camera and so far I love it.
There is definitely a big difference between the Sony VX and the Canon GL series of camcorders.
The only complaint I have is I wish there were an easier way to connect XLR's than the beachtek adapter that mounts on the camera base.
I am suprised that Sony never made an XLR adapter to fit on the handle like the PD series or the Canon GL adapter.

Is there an XLR adapter that can mount on the handle on the VX2100 like the PD170 does?

Thanks,
Michael
LVProductions

There was one made for one of the Sony cameras, the Pro version of the 900 IIRC. I think they are still available from Sony but they were not cheap.

Hi, i'm planning on getting the beachtek adapter dxa6 for the sony vx2k, was just confirming, the adapter goes on the base of the camcorder, right? How woudl the camera then fit onto the tripod that i have? Will this be a hassle free operation? Any users of this scenario i mentioned? thanks

The adapter boxes have tripod mount on the bottom.I've never found it a hassle with mine and using it on a tripod

thanks my next question is, what s the diff betwen the dxa8 and dxa 6? Which would be better for me? i intend to use a boom and a lav system..

Spike you can search the boards and find a lot of info on the DXA-8. The main difference is it contains pre amps and limiters for both channels. This is what i use and its great. I believe the DXA-6 only supplies phantom power with no pres or limiters. IMO the DXA-8 is the best option if you are willing to spend some more $$ and it will work with the boom/lav setup. The preamps allow the manual rec level of the VX set real low so you are using the higher quality pres of the beach to boost your mic signal not the noisy cheap preamp in the VX.The limiters will help smooth out peak overloads.