Doesn't libTIFF support 16-bit files?

I am not sure Jason..can you give a link and I will forward that

Ok the LIBtiff is what we are using now...seems that we are still getting the 16->8bti->16bit issue..I have sent an email to Frank over at LIBtiff...lets see what he says...

From Libtiff:

Obin,

Hmm, depends a bit on which SDK of mine you mean.

Libtiff will read and write 16bit TIFF files losslessly, but you
must take some care not to use the RGBA interface (which
converts to 8bit). Instead use the TIFFReadEncodedTile()
and TIFFReadEncodedStrip() functions. Libtiff does not provide
any real "processing". It is just a TIFF read/write library.

http://libtiff.maptools.org/

I also have an SDK called GDAL for reading, writing and
operating on Geospatial raster data. It supports 8, 16, 32bit
and other datatypes and can preserve the original data type
throughout processing. However, based on what you have said
I suspect you are looking for a generic image processing
capability, not a geospatial one. If so, GDAL likely has
little to offer you with the possibly exception of being
somewhat easier to use (though much bigger) than libtiff.

http://www.gdal.org/

Best regards,

good stuff.......

If all else fails it wouldn't be too hard to write a TIFF writer
yourself (or your programmer). I wrote a little TIFF reader (which
is much harder to do) a while back that supported only limited
amount of options, but did work. TIFF is a more complicated
format than say TARGA, but for writing it should be pretty simple
to roll your own.

ok so at the moment we have working 720p 12bit 4:4:4 preview - capture - record

I think I will have a working 16bit tiff export in a few hours.. once we have that I will shoot some more footage for everyone to check out and play with ;)

still waiting for DFI

DFI is sending me a new board for testing - if that does not work I will be in contact with the BIOS programmer at DFI


we should have tiff working now. I am not at the office so i don't know if the office machine has an update for the tiff stuff in the inbox...

ok I needs some FTP space with a login and password..
someone willing to host for me?
recording 12bit 1080p 12fps images on 32bit pci!

I don't have those, but I have been meaning to get around to checking out this service for the group:

http://www.100webspace.com/

I'm sure it is not the only one, and something might have a bit more GB. Pity we can't setup a download network (like they do with program downloads) using people's accounts (free accounts in this case).

By the way what happened to Rob.S.

Going to email him?

still no footage online? i'd love to check this out.

well well ..the 64bit card is working now(after a re-install of XP)..we have Xcap running the 3300RGB camera at 79mhz! at full resolution with a RGB color display 12bit! this is good news BUT we are now having issues with RECORD from our software..seems that after about 5 sec of recording the thing starts to slow down the preview and then will FIFO on this card also...the pci-x slot is a VERY fast slot and the fact that Xcap runs at 79mhz 12bit tells me this is OUR issue not the board or hardware..we are looking at what is going on...more when I get it...

update: looks like it could be an issue of the XCLIB SDK not supporting the 64bit card yet..or we have an old version with old DLL files...I hope!!

bought a 25mm Pillard film lens on ebay for testing and it's CRAP..god it's so soft!! anyone have some idea for a good cheap test lens?

Schneider. The Xenon's and Cinegon's are about as good as you're going to get in a c-mount. You should be able to find a 25mm or 50mm pretty easy for between $100 and $300.

If you can't find what you want on eBay, trying looking at Igor's Camera, (www.igorcamera.com) I've gotten good deals on used lenses from there in the past, and the lenses were fine.

I feel like last of the dead in here..anyone awake and ALIVE anymore? Rob? Steve? Even Wayne?? Jason?

We are so close now it's SICK..I can FEEL victory in my bones!

the 64bit card is so FAST! 24FPS 12bit should NOT be any issue for this thing..and the Dothan CPU is FAST and cool running..


again..can someone provide some FTP space?

how many megs will be your upload?

I am not sure..but I will try and keep it small..stills and some video in the windows media codec

If you let me know exactly how much, I can probably get you a host.

I'm here Obin :)

Just my throat hurst and I can't sleep :(

Like everybody else, I'm just waiting to see some more tantalizing stills :)

Obin,
Try them:

http://www.rapidshare.de/en/main.html

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : I feel like last of the dead in here..anyone awake and ALIVE anymore? Rob? Steve? Even Wayne?? Jason? -->>>

Hey why did you put poor Jason after me ;)

You are allways going to get FTP problems because raw files are huge, and tons of people downloading will max out the account. I suggest you mirror if you can and use a lot of sample stills and a few sequences of good short shots, like you did with the 1300.

I wonder if dvinfo.net might host them, they do that already with the DOF adapters.

Ohh, and check this out, a new Micron 2MP sensor:

http://images.micron.com/images/imaging/images/SueLib76_Print.png

I know it might be optimal lighting, but I think it is remarkable for a cheap phone sensor. It will be interesting what they come up with in the future in the video sensors.

Wayne

wow that is a nice cell phone image! I love CMOS..so much nicer then CCD

I might be able to do some hosting, but it would need to be limited to one or two of the very best clips, and I would need to know the file size (the weight) of the clip in advance.

Again Sorry Obin , I checked the provider of the ftp account and it does not allow uploading if the domain is not .fr

But an idea :
seed a torrent !

Okay Obin,

I can host for you, although I'm on a DSL line, so it's not perfect (1.5Mb/s). But I think it should be good for about a week.

ftp://windowsfs:windowsfs@68.166.68.130/Public

user: windowsfs
password: windowsfs

Just upload as you please, but again, beware that I'm not on a T1 (but I'm almost as fast)!

Also don't use the drop box.

Also by next tursday I'll be taking it offline, since I don't want my machine as a true FTP server.

Obin, have you done any work on a case design yet or are you strictly working on getting everything working first?

That made me think, how is your design Rob?

no case design yet..taht will be the easy part of this project!

I think we found the problem with our current display issues..looks like with the new cl2 64bit card you must use the newer SDK XCLIB kit..we are still using an older one in the compile that we are working with now...i will know soon if this is the issue and then i can shoot stuff with no dropped frames low cpu usage and full motion preview!..then i will psot some raw some tiff and some wmv video..

I can't tell everyone how glad I am our 64bit card is working..that problem almost put a lid on this project for good...

I am sending the crappy lens back and getting a Kern Pillard lens instead...

I would be happy to let some people try the software as soon as we get the basics really working well..you would need to buy a SI 3300RGB and a Epix CL2 card to use things..or you could get a 1920HD ALtasnse from SI! but that will cost a bit more

Thats awesome Obin! I can't wait to check out the footage (now I only need a monitor to display it!) As far as looking for beta testers I would definitly be interested. How much was the Epix card?

Ocar are you wondering how my design is going? The only thing that I am currently designing is a mattebox w/follow focus and some motion control equipment. I am not sure that I ever mentioned the motion control on this board because its not exactly 'alternate imaging' Anyway, its going well, I've been a bit busy the last few weeks, but I am controlling motors with the computer fine. I am almost finished with my first CNC mill, which was half for education half for using to build new mounts and stuff. I will post something when I actually have a piece of working camera related equipment.

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob LaPoint : Thats awesome Obin! I can't wait to check out the footage (now I only need a monitor to display it!) As far as looking for beta testers I would definitly be interested. How much was the Epix card? -->>>

Looks to be around 450 dollars US.

Obin,
I could host some files also, until the end of the month after Jason...
I'll email the info for uploading if you are interested

I've been following this discussion on and off, but have never posted on it before now. It sounds like a really interesting project.

If you need any help with the design of a case to house the bits I am more than willing to create some pre-visuals (provided you supply me with dimensions and pictures of the components).


Good luck!

Obin: just wanted to let you know I'm still here. Don't know what
happened to Rob S. though. I just don't have the money to get
the gear needed, so I can't support everyone much. Sorry.

Emailed Rob, and he is busy, so eventually he'll get back here.

Who put up that nice case design picture a number of months back (two color, one red or green)).


<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson :
then i can shoot stuff with no dropped frames low cpu usage and full motion preview!

I would be happy to let some people try the software as soon as we get the basics really working well..you would need to buy a SI 3300RGB and a Epix CL2 card to use things..or you could get a 1920HD ALtasnse from SI! but that will cost a bit more -->>>

What about Gige?

How much does the processor need for 24fps 720p? I have just seen pictures of a Linux machine with new dual (core?) VIA processors, which means the 2W dual core processor should be available in sub-notebooks sometime.

Also I have noticed that notebook and 1.8 inch drives, have gotten greatly improved performance and density. So we are getting to the stage that a $500 notebook with GiGE will be enough.

You can get GigE accelerator boards, that help a lot with data transfer. At work, with 2 machines using accelerator cards if I remember rightly we have been able to get 3 streams at about 10MB/s. These also have the added advantage of taking the network traffic processing away from the CPU. Mind you they are quite expensive.

http://www.alacritech.com/html/gigabit_ethernet.html

Mind you I can't find the post about the thruput this project will need.

Just an idea...

There is a number of Gige cameras out from SI etc, with support planned in the capture packages? Some MB have it, and there are high speed drivers (100MB/s) for some Intel ones.

Thanks

Wayne.

Orinially I was very intersted in the Gige possibilities, guess I still am for that matter. Does anyone know if the Gige cameras also have a Cameralink ability that wouldn't limit the data to Gige rates(have your cake and eat it too)? Obin can the Epix card handle 1080P above 24fps, I know that sounds really greedy but what the hell! If the cameras or card can't really handle much above 1080P @ 24fps then I see no reason to stick with CameraLink.

Rob,
The GigE interface can move 100MB/sec. It can pack the 12 bit data - 2pix/3 bytes. It has an internal buffer so you can use average data rates: 1080p24fps is 1920*1080*1.5B/pix * 24fps = 75MB/sec - room to grow.

You can either get a 1920HD as a -GR (gigabit, remote head, essentially a camera link camera with an external interface and could be used with a frame grabber) or a -GE which has the interface built in.

The Epix 64 bit card that Obin has, besides being a fine paperweight, is a 64 bit/66MHz grabber. Camera link is limited to 85MHz clocks. The SI-3300 is single tap - you can move 12 bits at up to 85MHz and meet the CL spec (I've run it over 100MHz but not suggested for a product). The SI-1920HD is a dual tap - you can run the full speed of the chip. Two 75MHz 12 bit data paths. On the bus, this is unpacked so the peak data rate (not buffered) is 75MHz * 2 pix/clock * 2B/pix = 300MB/sec peak on the bus. *Danger* - the 64/66 Bus is a max of 532MB/sec and realistically 450MB/sec. You still can only cross the bus once. Matrox makes the Helios which can handle a 133MHz bus if you have it.

The bottom link is if you are looking for slow motion recording at full HD, CL is still the way to go. For a basic 24-30fps, GigE is good.

Thanks for the low down Steve! I guess in my own head I never really considered shooting 1080p for slow-mo, I always figured I would move down to 720p for that anyway. Obin I know that you were planning on taking your software into the Gige arena at some point but what would it take to get it there? Is it the sort of thing you would be interested in testing now (or in the near future) or would you like to get all the bumps worked out with Cameralink beta testers first?

we need SOLID robust CameraLink FIRST! then I will be looking at other things..at the moment things worked great with the 32bit card(but the speed is much to slow) and now with the new paperweight 64bit card we are having a much higher CPU% while preview and record then we should..I know it's OUR software because Xcap can display full 12bit color with no problems and black and white preview at about 18% cpu! ..this is good news because it's OUR problem not the hardware...we can fix this...

Sounds great Obin, I assumed that that is what your plan was but figured that there was no harm in asking. I have to finish up a promo video Im working on before I will have enough money to buy a camera, but its defintily something I want to do. I would really love to beta test your software when I get one!

Our programmer has CineLink running with 18% CPU at preview with 65mhz 1080p 24fps...I guess I have a bad version or a bug in my build..should get somthing early monday for tests..will keep everyone posted...

how is the 1920 Steve? is it a lower noise camera then then Micron 3300RGB?

You are using 2Ghz CPU, are you saying that the preview and capture works at 18% (400Mhz) that would be great, or just the preview?

Forgot to mention, over at the technical thread I have posted a few good things for the camera, including 300+GB high speed, low cost drives.

how high-speed Wayne? we need atleast 60MB/sec sustained not burst...

Hi-speed for a 320 GB drive. 36.8 to 65 (second from the top on the chart in the link, just below the Raptor).

720p*24fps at top pixel depth of 12bits per pixel = 33.1776MB/s. The ultimate cheap Indie option over the price/MB of the Raptor. Two could be used for 1080HD, if anybody wanted too.

Looking at my earlier post in the Tech thread, there is something faster than a Raptor, Maxtor Atlas 10K V (300 GB Ultra320 SCSI), but it is SCSI.

Thanks

Wayne.

If you don't already, trawl over http://www.storagereview.com/ for drive blah blah..

Maxtor Atlas 10K V [300GB SATA Details]
http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200411/200411028D300L0_2.html

Maxtor MaXLine III [300GB SCSI Details]
http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200410/200410087B300S0-2_2.html

and for a rainy day!
another quick microatx pentium M mobo with 64-bit 133 MHz PCI-X Rev. 1.0 slot http://www.win-ent.com/MB-06032.htm

ta,
DF

opps....

The Maxtor Atlas 10K V is the SCSI and the Maxtor MaXLine III is the SATA

Could this be of any help ?
http://www.arri.de/infodown/cam/broch/d20_e.pdf

It would be more complicated, by why not have a ram buffer that could easily sustain 60MB/s so that you don't have to use 15k SCSI drives to capture the footage.

That or it would it simpler and cheaper to capture to an 7200RPM four drive RAID 10, temporarily, then move the footage to other drives after capture.

I guess another option regarding a ram buffer would be to setup a ram disk in windows, then buffer the footage in that manner, or transfer between takes There is some free RAM disk software out there, that is supposedly pretty reliable. Just wouldn't want the power to go out before you transfered the data. If you would have to use the buffer then transfer the files between takes, which would be really annoying, but I guess it would feasible. At 60MB/s, you'd get a whopping 34 seconds with a 2GB ram drive. Any RAM above PC100 should have no problem with the throughput.

The Maxline is slightly faster on the inside and slower on the outside compared to the Western Digital 320GB.


Mark--
This has been discussed in times past, and I am sure the projects are already doing this, but if you want to post links and details that would be a help to anybody else doing a project.

The problem with transferring to slower drives, is that many of the slower drives are too slow to sustain a 60GB (or 35GB) read of the footage (unless the footage is compressed and the processor is fast enough to decompressed live) for playback and editing. So we are stuck with using more expensive drives, for the time being, or multiple ones of the cheap ones.

There was to be a 1300 720p camera (and I think Micron could do a new camera again), but by the looks of it Obin might be going to the 1080p cameras and scrapping the 1300 (has to many serious problems).


New Micron sensors--
I have looked through the Micron specs on their new sensors, and while the more expensive models have unspecific max Signal to Noise figures like >41db, the new cheap integrated mobile sensors (that might be suitable) specify exact max ratings in the low 40's dbs, rolling shutter, and I don't know about the smear and blooming problems have been solved. I don't know why they don't take their cameras to 48db, so at least you can do descent 8 bit footage, not to mention a solution to rolling shutter.


New parts, new commercial camera?--
Interesting things come up, I know of new all in one mobile phone chips (522Mhz Cpu), Mobile sensors that are fast enough, and faster 90GB 1.8 inch drives. Theoretically somebody could do a mobile with 720p (even 1080p with compression) with 2:1 (or 4:1 cineform) (over 2-4 hours on a Mobile!) compression or just an pro Eng codec (50-100mb/s nearly). Any volunteers?

The camera companies need to wake up and offer at least a phone camera. Imagine how useful this is for a camera news or doco person, let alone the average user,anything happens and instantly you have a piece to film it (though not the best footage) even a HD version would be welcome to a pro. People are far more likely to pay high prices for these than your average palmcorder.


Thanks

Wayne.

Hi Steve,

A while back I recall that the ETA for the Altasens based SI-1920HD cameras was in the March timeframe . . . is that still reasonably current?

The first production run is shipping on the SI-1920HD. Many of these are going to integrators since what you need is probably something like Obin's code (or at least good support from something like StreamPix) to use the camera.

SO, the answer is: they are are shipping NOW. We have them being integrated by our GigE group, Epix and Coreco for capture.

ok .

we are going with 2 SATA 10k rpm drives

simple. safe.