<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Syverson :

@Wayne: How fast can you run the shutter and not drop below 24FPS in 8 bit and in 10 bit modes, and can the software be setup to force a set synced frame rate (24fps)?

You're clearly not reading the posts -- if you catch up on the discussion, you'll see where we're at.

@Wayne: What is the perforamnce difference when running global shutter to compared to rolling shutter.

Again, we've been over this, for now it's rolling shutter only.
- ben -->>>

Sorry, I did but I think I mean a few more advanced things then were covered.

I know you have talked about it not doing 24fps exactly, but I'm curiiouse if the config and options have a more advanced realtime mode that forces the sytem to let it sync to an exact FPS. I don't remember you mentioning how fast the shutter could run. In Obin's camera faster shutter means more bandwith (which maxes out), but if yours had a frame buffer you should be able to do much faster shutters.

When I said performance difference between Global and rolling, I was meaning in terms of any effects on picture quality and max shutter speed (global leaks a bit, and who knows what else).

Thanks

Wayne.

So jason you don't think that smearing is all that bad ?

I will send you a raw tiff file of that 3.8 DRAKS gamma pic for you to take a look at

Wayne, like I mentioned before, currently there is no way to "lock" the frame rate, but as I mentioned, Sumix is currently planning on incorporating such a feature. If you want to run at 24fps exactly, you'll have to run the camera at 40mhz, and take only 24 of the 40 or so frames per second. At 24mhz, you're always going to be brushing up against 24fps. Personally, I'd rather run at 24mhz/23.5fps and take my increased exposure even if it means a few more editing headaches. But folks who want absolute sound sync on 50 seconds of footage :) can set that up at 40mhz.

I haven't tested global vs rolling because currently the firmware/software is rolling-only for motion. Global would clearly be preferable, and I've brought that up with Sumix, but until that's a possibility, I won't waste time testing it.

- ben

clip that has been CC and gamma set at 1.7

http://obin.weet.us/cc-1.wmv
http://obin.weet.us/raw image.tiff
http://home.mindspring.com/~jrod/gamma_DARKS_3.8.jpg

2 above are the same shots..if you can open the raw black and white take a look at that...the dark is the one I pushed the crap out of the dark GAMMA

Obin,

I think you need to shoot an 18% grey card.

Because right now we have NO idea how much dynamic range we're getting out of this camera.

Your images look good (sans the bad bayer demosaicer), but they might be too bright, you might be clipping too much of the shadow dynamic range.

Get a light meter, and shoot a grey card. I'm not sure what the ISO of these cameras is, you might be able to find that out from Steve. But once you find that out, go shoot a grey card, and see where that shows up in your file. Then you can see how much gamma correction it takes to make that 18% grey 50% grey inside Combustion. A white card is 2 and 2/3 stops over 18% grey. So then you can see how many stops over white that you're getting before it clips.

Without these tests, and no pun intended, we're shooting in the dark :-)

But your images do look good :-)

BTW, you know what I'm lov'n?

I'm lov'n those highlights on the skin!

That's very hard to do on Sony HD cameras without it looking nasty, cause they tend to clip and get color-shifts in the highlights. I've done it, but it never looks that good.

Chalk one up to Uncompressed!

ok... Joe Dunton Cameras have a grey card you think?

I live 2 blocks away from them

Thanks Jason...as you can tell that image has been WHACKED on by me in Combustion...not bad eh?

post the images Jason if you would for everyone

Obin,
That streaks in the black have always the same spatial placement.
If the answer is yes it would be posible to make a plugin to remove them if necessary..

Also, if you can and will, please remember the exposure test I've told you....

ok... Joe Dunton Cameras have a grey card you think?


Yah Man,

You're in Willmington! Next to NY this is the film hot-spot on the east coast (not sure why it's not Norfolk, Virginia Beach, less hurricanes ;-)

BTW, here's Obin's images he sent me:

http://home.mindspring.com/~jrod/original.jpg
http://home.mindspring.com/~jrod/re-touch.jpg

Ben thanks for this advice, I see what you mean by the 40Mhz, clock limit, I had forgotten that, and I posted before I saw your subsequent post about Sumix looking at a lock. But really Sumix should have had somebody here to find out in times past, like SI's Steve has. I have been unable to get around to contacting them yet (as Steve I suggested) to talk with them.

Rob L is still on holiday, maybe he can help us with some space (like the 35mm adaptors have) when he gets back, good to see you all back.

The JVC altsens, is a 3chip camera, not bayer. Bayer is worse than 4:2:2, it is more like 4:2:0, red and blue is only sampled every 4 pixel block. If it is really under $2K, that would help offset the extra price of a HD-SDI card, but I don't really see JVC selling a HD camera for a price so close to the card. The thing is not even a true HD spec camera (I'm just being controversial here) if it only supports 30p and 60i. For lense, make an SLR adaptor.

I have talked to the local JVC pro distributor and that camera looks like an update to an existing model, and not likely to be under $2K. He informs me that the new HD1/10 like 3ccd camera maybe released at CVI?? show in Amsterdam, in Steptember.

Juan, if you want Altsens images, ask Altsens I'm sure they would have links on there site. I think you are going to be gaurantted to get better results from an Altsens, anyway.

Steve, arty B&W 1080 image, keep it away from Woody Allen ;), actually thats probably the best way to promote your camera, get him to use it (when the software is done).

Aaron thanks for the links but http://www.ccd.com/kaf-1602e.pdf is not found. I actually turned down a secondhand scsi HD rack thing for $20 recently, I wonder if it was fibre channel. If we could only get the speed and capacity in one drive at a cheap anough price (including standard interface like SATA 300, high speed doesn't need fibrechannel anymore) we can go three chip no worries (very nice for case design and drive swapping). I want to research this too.

Rob S what make of PC do you have, ussually they just exchange main boards to repair.

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : Anyone who wants more test images with HIGHCONTRAST stuff please provide your email...I can't upload ftp from home (don't know login)

I have been fooling around and it turns out that yes they more you GAIN the camera the worse the "smear" is...I now question if I had gain REALLY high on the shoot with the backlights....it was so much pressure I could have overlooked that I think...it's weird ...testing at home here I have to push it HARD to get that amount os smear again... -->>>

I posted questions ages ago, asking about how the gain effects latitude as well, as the more gain the more current issues. Your earliest outside shoots (with the dark face) did not seem to have any smear/streaking problems when lifted in post. Maybe we need to do standardised tests on each camera to test lattitude and problems at: 0 gain, the highest gain without smearing/streaking/colour banding, highest gain, lowest problem free negative gain, and lowest negative gain, for each channel. Testing for quality, and also hotspots and shadows.

Obin, would a 35SLR prime relayed (condesed) into 1/2 inch format condensed, help with dark shots?


Thanks

Wayne.

@Jason:
To me It looks the original image is a little too high......

@Steve:

What do you talk about when you talk about "low sensitivity"??

About the FPN, is it always the same?
Can I remove it ,I'm really interested about that chip.
Having 12 bits and 2048 would be great for my work so I want to know everything.
Besides it supports 48 fps in 1920x1080.....

Juan I bet your right...you REALLY have to expose for the highlights on this chip in the RAW format

so??
Is it overexposed??
I think we're going the right way now with all this new discoverings and tests...I'm so happy :)

What about the streaks in the shadows?
Did you read my post above?

BTW, My friend DP, tested yesterday the relay lens conbined with a lens for a 6x4 camera.
Amazing!!! he gained almost 1 1/2 f-stops against his SRL lens..

The problem is he was using a single un-coated lens, so image quality wasn't good.
Now we're heading to an optics factory to ask for help...

Dooh! I thought you were in Europe :).

Still this log trick that Sumix is doing for Bens camera, would it make sense for SI to do it for your camera too?

Hey there,

Fascinating work everyone. I'm currently trying to get through all of the posts. I can only do this at work at the mo' so I'm only up to page 51. There's a lot of reading to get done. My interest here is mostly as a geek. Not sure what if anything I can contribute but I just thought I'd share something before I asked any stupid questions.

I read on part of the thread that someone had looked at the possibility of adapting virtualdub to work with the files but it only worked with 8bit. I was wondering if that person had also looked into Avisynth. Avisynth is a frameserver, which virtualdub has, but has the advantage of being much faster and scriptable. Unfortunately, i can't find any info about the colour depth it handles.

Why, you might ask. If it could be engineered to work with the files, you would be able to keep the original format and create a 'virtual avi' which is basically a dummy file that redirects the individual frames through avisynth and into your app. The app thinks that the dummy file is a standard avi. No compression artifacts, hopefully no loss of information and hopefully more compatability. You could ideally create scripts which would allow you to open the files in nearly everything (eg dropping from 10 to 8 bit to work in premiere)

Just a thought.

Jason :)

Forget about it!! :)
Avisynth is heavily assembler optimized, has a lot of memory leaks, eats a lot of memory.
It looks faster to you because it works most of the time directly in YV12 colorspace.
When you use it in RGB, the same colorspace Vdub uses, it isn't faster.
Also it is very windows based so it is almost imposible to port it to any other OS.
Any of the things you are proposing would take more than 6 months of heavy work and a complete re-writing from scratch even if its developers (Shodan and Company) were working on it.

<<<-- Originally posted by Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn :BTW, My friend DP, tested yesterday the relay lens conbined with a lens for a 6x4 camera.
Amazing!!! he gained almost 1 1/2 f-stops against his SRL lens.. -->>>

This is what I'm talking about Obin. Stuff it, I'll reveal some of my plans, I wanted to keep them quiet so I could rub it in the noses of those people on my thread last year, but this is it. I was planning on using a Medium Fomat prime for indoor shoots, and a slr zoom (adjusted for MF for outdoor shoots). I was even eyeing a 30cm+ large format for night shooting (by moonlight, Starlight would be better, but I think that would require a truck to carry it ;). I suppose my doco's wont look so good if somebody else beats me to it, but I am getting tired of keeping it quiet. I've come up with many good computer inovations in the past, only to slowly see them erroded away as others, eventually, develope and exploit the same ideas (not saying that plenty of people haven't allready thought of condensing larger formats down to do low light, it is such a no brainer). But optically I think I still have got a few cards left.

Juan, are you talking about 6 by 4 inches, is he using a GG, because he should be getting more stops than that. Does the lense have a small aperture. I did some rough calculations previously and the best aperture lense for MF should give much more light (condensed) than a f1.0 SLR.

Ok, another stupid suggestion. Is there anything in Cinepaint AKA FilmGimp that might be useful?

Also, even if Avisynth is not practical, is some sort of frameserver style of app worth looking at so you can work using the original without having to duplicate your footage to work with it in your NLE?

Jason :)

How exactly would an 18% grey card help define exposure with this cmos camera?
With film, defining a single point along the response curve of film works, because the film toe, shoulder and whole response curve has been defined by the film manufacturer. With the Cmos camera, you can control the gain and offset of the chip, so you need more definition of a curve to nail down the 'exposure'.

I recommend shooting the equivalent of a sensotometric strip to help calibrate the camera. If you wanted to, you could even mimic the response curve of a particular film stock. I have a bit of color management experience under my belt from my last 'regular' job.

But it's also possible to just match it up visually to something on the monitor, without doing all the science.

Just a couple of things to think about.

-Les

hey obin,
did you ever figure out how to get rid of the bending of the image that happens with fast pans? i remember, from the footage you posted awhile ago, the bottom of the image would have to catch up to the top, and smear... was that solved by shutter or mhz or something?

Wayne on 1920HD:
That artsy shot was my boss shooting his wife. We are having troubles with Altasens getting more parts, especially color ones. This may push back a formal release date but I am trying to get more engineering parts for the developers - hardware and software

Juan on 3170 sensitivity:
Two separate issues. First, at a gain of 1, you need a brightly lit conference room type lighting (yeah, I know that is not too numerical) to get a good image. Second, as you increase the gain beyond about 3x, the FPN becomes obnoxious. Sure you can background subtract a reference and it doesn't look too bad, but you lose dynamic range doing that. You can clean things up. Look at this (with a poor Bayer, I know):
http://host196.ipowerweb.com/~siliconi/Samples/flower%208%20bit.jpg
http://host196.ipowerweb.com/~siliconi/Samples/3170U%20Macbeth%20Photo2.jpg
I want to stress that these are well lit, gain and offset corrected, color tweaked, *NOT* raw.

Obin:
I'm glad you are making headway on the SI-1300 smear. Are you shooting at 24 or 48fps?

Ben:
I'm not sure if I see the advantage of the IBIS-5 in rolling shutter mode - larger pixels and cheap interface I guess. The main interest was in using the global shutter to remove the rolling shutter artifacts.

On log encoding:
There are two ways I can think of doing this - first with a log amplifier before the A/D. This will give you more dynamic range a the expense of less detail at one end of the brightness. I assume (??) that you want more detail i the shadows, not less so you get more steps in the dark areas. We just opted to use an external 12 bitA/D instead of the internal 10 bit to accomplish this on our IBIS-5 camera.

The second way would be to remap the 10 bit data down to 8 bit non-linearly to maintain the 10 bit dynamic range and detail at one end of the illumination, again at the expense of the rest of the range.

Personally, I would see more value in either straight 12 bits or going to a lossless compression if data rate is the issue (as in USB). Maybe I'm missing something here.

That BBC HD work is great, I'm watching the "Chicargo" musical stage show scene in AB Fab at the moment.

Steve, I'll leave this to the professionals, but I'm sure there is more. I think it is a matter of how our eyes work (non linear response curve with value to value at different distances (the eyes uses around 128 green values etc, 256 is used because that are not even), so if you can select the values according to the eyes performance curve, you can get the 10bit values to go a lot further. I have a link to the spectacular JVC GY-DV5000 camera, that I was reading last night, it uses a simular technique. I think if it is done right, then you adjust for the highlights and most of the picture range will be right, with crushed blacks (but I don't know how this goes in post editing).

http://www.provis.com.au/products/video/gy_dv5000.htm

Can somebody verify if I'm saying the right thing or not?

Quote from the link above:
F13 at 2000 lux
The most sensitive camera ever! (F13 at 2000 lux) assures effortless shooting in extreme low light situations. This powerful feature increases creative flexibility and simplifies lighting requirements.

Newly-developed 12-bit ADC and 24-bit DSP
JVC has developed an advanced 12-bit processing system--previously found only in very high end broadcast cameras. The 12-bit ADC (analog to digital converter) directly inputs data to the DSP (digital signal processor,) thus eliminating any signal degradation that might otherwise arise from analog circuits. In addition, the advanced video processing brings out natural details--even in extremely bright scenes, greatly reduces noise, and provides color accuracy found only in the most expensive field production cameras.

400% wide dynamic range
The DV5000's super fast multi-stream parallel processing DSP creates an ultra-smooth gamma curve calculated using a true log scale algorithm. The result is a dynamic range of over 400% that accurately reproduces fine details and colors in both shadowed and highlighted areas.

1/2-inch industry standard bayonet lens mount
400% of what?


Now that is performance, even at 1/2inch, but how does that compare to the Altsens?

I think, I read of a manufacturing problem with the Altsens constricting supply here, pity.

Thanks

Wayne.

Wayne Morellini wrote:
Rob S what make of PC do you have, ussually they just exchange main boards to repair.It's a homebuilt, using an ASUS motherboard. Unfortunately, ASUS does not have a "ship replacement first" option -- I have to ship the motherboard in, they fix/replace, then ship it back. Grrr.Jason Keenan wrote:
Ok, another stupid suggestion. Is there anything in Cinepaint AKA FilmGimp that might be useful?Very possibly. The plan right now is to make the "Convert" software (the offline, non-real-time portion) available under the GPL, which means we could incorporate code from projects like Cinepaint.

Also, we plan to support file formats that Cinepaint can use directly -- meaning, you could use Cinepaint for color correction, gamma correction, etc. (Assuming that it supports those features -- haven't used it much myself.)

The idea behind Log encoding is that the human response to light is logarithmic, meaning we see more differentiation at the bottom of the scale (darks), than in the highlights. So loss of information in the highlights isn't a problem, and you're packing the bits more effectively. Also log encoding has a nice curve into the highlights, compressing them nicely rather than the harsh clip that happens with linear encoders when they hit 100%. So when you convert from log to linear, you can define a "soft-clip" that allows the highlights to gently roll off-log encoding according to the Cineon spec allows for super-whites, placing 90% white at 695 (I think), and then devoting the rest of the scale above that point to the 1024 cut-off to super-whites. This added information in the highlights helps to make a nice print, since again, there's information in the highlights that makes it to the film negative without any harsh clipping.

>>so??
Is it overexposed??
I think we're going the right way now with all this new discoverings and tests...I'm so happy :)<<

Actually I think the image is underexposed.... I was looking at it with the histogram and the blacks are seriously compressed/clipped. I checked out all the other images as well - same problem.

Why is it so necessary to expose for the highlights? Is it not possible to get good blacks without blowing out the image? I admit I'm somewhat lost...

the problem with the 1300 is yes its got good dynamic range but you can't use it when you have a hotspot in your image...you have to crush the blacks enough to "hide" the smear doing so cuts down the range alot...if your not shooting with a hotspot it works GREAT

Actually I think the image is underexposed

These images are un-gamma corrected linear images, so yes, they actually are overexposed a little bit (although the last couple that Obin posted with the girl are pretty good, still might be bright, but not like the others from before).

Les Dit,

I was thinking that Steve might know the ISO.

Another thing you could do is check to see what F-stop gives a grey card lit with 2000lux a 50% grey value (after gamma correction) on screen. From there you could back-track to an ISO figure.

@JasonKeenan: Is there anything in Cinepaint AKA FilmGimp that might be useful?

No. Cinepaint is a frame-by-frame retouching tool, not an editing tool. It's literally mostly used for "dustbusting," or painting dust out of film scans. It's also an extremely early beta (I would call it an alpha), so while certain features like the "open" menu item and the "brush" tool are usable because they're the main features, pretty much everything else is some form of broken.

But I lurk on the Cinepaint developer list to get an idea what they're doing. 0.19 should be released fairly soon.


@Steve: I'm not sure if I see the advantage of the IBIS-5 in rolling shutter mode - larger pixels and cheap interface I guess.

Yeah, not much of an advantage, I guess. No wait, it is!

I could never shoot with a 1/2" sensor, because you can't get quality lenses to go wide enough. I ordered a 10mm prime lens designed for 16mm, and even that lens with 2/3" format is not that wide (in 16mm, it's super wide). To get wide-angle in 1/2" you're basically stuck with industrial video lenses (of extremely questionable quality) or super-expensive 16mm primes.

And the cheap interface is a huge, huge thing, especially for someone such as myself who wants to shoot outside. Also, Sumix is commited to similar interfaces for future products. Much like the SI-1300 is "practice" for Obin before the Altasens comes out, so is the SMX-150c for me.

Just curious, what interface(s) are you putting on the Altasens design?

- ben

Obin, how do you go about eleminating hot spots? Is this a consistent problem?

Adjusting the gamma shouldn't be a large problem. I'm just not sure I fully understand how you can get crushed blacks from an overexposed image. Is it because you have to pull the highlights down so much?

Ben:
The altasens will be first on camera link since its top end is about 300MB/sec. We will then do a gigE version but should include at least packing if not compression.

There are Schneider Cinegon 8mm lenses at 2/3". Not cheap but none of the good glass is unless you buy it used.

I will be curious how you fare on the USB 2.0 because we have them too and have written them off for cinematography.

Steve,

With 10bit transfers (and possibly some compression? it's not clear) USB2 should be fine for 720p at 24mhz. It's FW800 that I'm really looking forward to..

Funny you should mention Scneider Cinegon -- the 8mm was a little out of my league, but I have a used (well, old -- I don't think it was ever used) 10mm Cinegon on the way. Supposedly it covers all the way to Super16, so maybe it's an older model...

Good to hear about GigE -- will the camera get its power over ethernet as well?

- ben

hotspots are jsut areas in the image that have above 100% exposure...it's what you shoot not a "spot" on the image

who's going to have the first working altasens camera?? and when? and for how much? any guesses?

check out the dynamic range in this image! WOW NO lights on inside at all and you can still see the window sill if you push it...but see the streaking? that is what I am talking about...take the gamma all the way to 2.6 or so and you will see what I mean...

http://obin.weet.us/16bit_color_tiff.tif

Steve, i wanted today order a SI-1300-Set, but the rolling shutter problem will not go out of my head. You know, we need the camera for a movie project. Shoot with 48fps, but only use every second frame is also not like a movie camera. Okay, in a movie camera (with 24fps) the exposure time is about 1/50 sec., but not the exposure time is the problem. It is the slow rolles shuttet. A mechanical shutter in a movie camera move in a different way and is faster. The shutter diameter is 3-5 times larger then the frame size. So from a whole one turn it need only a angle of round 15 degree to close (or open) the picture window. This time is only a 1/24 of one frame (one turn=360degree, so 15degree = 1/24).
1/24 of one frame, not 1/24sec like the SI-1300. A movie camera shutter rolls (at 24fps) in 1/576 sec. This is 24 times faster! This is a enormous difference and i think definitely rolling shutters are not usefully to shoot a movie with it.

@Ben, you have no email here, can you contacted my, please

Rai...look at the image below:

http://obin.weet.us/gamma 2.4.tif

dude...would YOU shoot a feature film with that much artifacting in the darks?

that is a gamma of 2.4...LOTS of dynamic range and LOTS of overexposure artifacts in the blacks..

Rai...I sent you 3 files...they all came back...if you want images then you need to deal with your email account!!!!

don't beg me for stuff just to have it sent back ;)

Rai:
I don't think I understood what you said. There are two separate issues in a rolling shutter camera. The first is exposure which can be set from a maximum of a frame time to a minimum of a couple of rows. This will do as you expect - shorter frame times yield less light in but less motion blur. Second is the rolling shutter artifact - the time difference from the readout of the top of frame to bottom. This is either 1/24th sec or 1/48th sec if you drop every other frame (which limits the max exposure and *may* cause more smearing). I think the max 1/48th sec exposure might be what you referred to.

I'm going to remind everyone that the excitement on the Altasens is still over a rolling shutter sensor - running at 24/30/48/60fps.

painting RAW:

http://obin.weet.us/painting.tif

painting with gamma set at 2.2 and some cc to make it standout:

http://obin.weet.us/painting gamma 2.2 some cc.tif

@Obin, first thanks for the images (email). My people, also in the post, say the RAW images are okay.

---->http://obin.weet.us/gamma 2.4.tif

dude...would YOU shoot a feature film with that much artifacting in the darks?<----

No, but we would also not shoot with a 35mm ARRI this view. Obin, i think there is a differently "look" we need. You compare all images with a normal video camera. But i dont want video look. I love cinema, and so i love your earlier images.
But my main problem now is the rolling shutter

what "look" are you going for ?? High Contrast? low contrast? bright colors?

Steve,
sorry, i mean rolling shutter artifact. You said it: The time difference from readout of the top of frame to bottom is very slow. It lasts a whole frame. And that is exactly the problem. At 24fps its 1/24th sec. At 48fps its 1/48th sec. It is much to slow. A mechanical shutter in a movie camera do this 24times faster.

Obin,
i not the man who make the post.
I can only say what i like. It is more movie "look" than video "look"

video = TV-News, Sports or so.
Movie = The X Files

http://obin.weet.us/outdoors-1.wmv

gamma about 2.0 and minor CC for a natural tone

don't think I understood what you said. There are two separate issues in a rolling shutter camera. The first is exposure which can be set from a maximum of a frame time to a minimum of a couple of rows. This will do as you expect - shorter frame times yield less light in but less motion blur. Second is the rolling shutter artifact - the time difference from the readout of the top of frame to bottom. This is either 1/24th sec or 1/48th sec if you drop every other frame (which limits the max exposure and *may* cause more smearing). I think the max 1/48th sec exposure might be what you referred to

Ahh, now I understand!! :-)

So that's how camera manufacturers get around the rolling shutter artifacting problems-the chip is always running at 60Hz (for NTSC), it's just the exposure time is different for the rows, but the chip itself is always reading out at a fast enough "frame-rate" to eliminate any rolling shutter artifacts. And that's why you can't get the shutter slower that 1/60th of a second (in normal mode) on an NTSC camera.

Now the progressive cameras like the DVX100 though can do 1/30th of a second shutters, and they supposedly shoot at 24fps. I haven't seen any rolling shutter artifacts with that camera, and again, I think a lot of the problem has to do with lack of motion blur. When the shutter is all the way open I'm used to seeing much more motion blur than what I'm seeing in these samples. So I'm not sure if the integration time is long enough or not, but I'm figuring that the more motion blur in the frame, the less you're going to see any rolling shutter artifacts.

BTW, how come you can't have the chip read out in 1/48th of a second an then blank for 1/48th of a second? I mean suppose you wanted 32fps or 33fps, how would you do that and still maintain the /148th of a second shutter since they don't evenly divide into each other?

rolling shutter is a thing of CMOS I think..I have never seen an issue with CCD chips..and YES JVC etc will run the Altasense at 60mhz ALL THE TIME and take every other frame to tape for 30fps etc

The JVC page mentioned it had a max rate of 75mhz -- maybe they're running at that speed all the time.

Rai, what do you need?

Jason and Obin,
it is not only the motion blur. A movie have also motion blur and i like it. But a movie camera have not the rolling shutter artifact problem.
(Oh my bad english...) If you have strings (up to down), or just the manhatten skyline and you move the camera (left to right) the first line in the sensor is readout, than a little time later the next line, and so on, but in the meantime the camera move on. The position is not the same, because it takes 1/24th sec from the first line on the top to the last line.
The picture "swings". I hope you understand

With global shutter, you have also motion blur (and i like this), but you will dont have this artifact swinging problem.

Ben, i think i like your camera. We have some ideas to change the interface and other things, so we can use it (with 10bit and in global shutter mode) next days. Please email...

Rai, the interface is totally fixed -- it's USB2. And Sumix is working on 10bit software as we speak. What exactly do you want to do?

My boss did a pair of images of the IBIS-5 and the Micron 1.3Mpix using the standard XCAP tools for image enhancement. The IBIS-5 was run in global shutter mode since the color is better that way. It was run at a slower clock to allow for sufficient exposure time.

http://siliconimaging.com/Samples/SI1280%2025MHz%20TB4%202000%20Sat%201.3%20GG1.2.jpg

http://siliconimaging.com/Samples/SI1300%2035MHz%20Exp20ms%20Sat%201.3%20GG1.2.jpg

Rai:
You have it. Motion blur and rolling shutter artifacts are totally separate effects other than their visual interaction. The Altasens can be run at any rate up to 60fps.

More on the rolling shutter beast:
The 60fps of NTSC was done with interlacing. First you display a frame of even lines in a 60th of a sec and then a frame of odd. Any rolling shutter effects would be jagged that way. CCDs have been available for years with either interline transfer or full frame transfer - both ways of capturing a full frame at once.

that's why I like the Micron......WAY more color then the IBIS

Steve,

I Level'd the 1280 image and boosted the chroma by 1.25x -- of course it looks kind of rough because the input was a jpeg, but you can get a sense.

si1280corrected.jpg (http://www.bensyverson.com/hd/images/tests/si1280corrected.jpg)

I had one version that looked essentially the same as the Micron image, but i figured what the heck -- I'll up the color a little bit more and white balance it a little better. (It's tough because the flourescent is really blue)

- ben